#1
Hey guys, i just wanna see how people feel about this subject. here is the deal, there is only one guitar shop where i live so any and every time you go there the whole world is in there. ok now, all their guitars are hanging on the wall, tons and tons of people have touched and played, and banged the thing and of course they don't buy it. so now in my book that instrument is used. sooo how can they say its a fresh brand new instrument? its been touched, played and handled by everybody's greasy snotty hands. and on top of that, this shop keeps all the accessories that come in the factory box and sell it to you separately (ie the trem bar, allan wrenches etc). i know this is what you get for shopping at a store but its not right. they should have one for people to screw with and if you want it, they get a fresh one sealed in the factory box from the back. anybody agree?
Last edited by groundwire at Apr 2, 2012,
#2
idk depending on the brand if i find one i want to buy i want THAT guitar...not a similar guitar from the back room. if there was anything wrong with the guitar you should expect a discount though.
.
Capitalization is the difference between "I helped my Uncle Jack off the horse" and "i helped my uncle jack off the horse"
Quote by stepchildusmc
either way your gonna need a big bucket... how you set it under the horse is up to you.
#3
also i cant get past the hanging by a hook for months before its sold thing. everybody knows that is one of THE WORST ways to store an instrument. hanging by the headstock, twisting and bending with the temp and humidity changes. i know its the nature of the beast for guitar shops but im definitely ordering my $1300 instrument online. its just a shame shops are like this.
#4
If you want one from the store room, most shops will get you one if you ask. But generally that's not a good idea. If you've gone to a store then obviously you're thinking about buying a guitar that you want to try first and make sure you like - you might like the one on the shop floor but you might not like the one from the warehouse.

As for whether they're used or not, most (good) shops will sell a guitar as either b-stock or ex-demo if it has been played enough in the shop to show any signs of wear. A guitar is not classed as ''used'' until it's actually been bought. You don't say a guitar in a store is ''used'' because some people are very picky about how they will buy used gear; they may want to know who the previous owner was and how long they had it for, and obviously these things don't apply if the guitar has been sat unsold in the shop since it was new. So for guitars that are ''new'' but have been tried in a shop a lot we call them ex-demo or b-stock instead of saying ''used''. It means kind of the same thing but the difference is important to some customers.

Even if a shop does not have a guitar discounted, they usually will lower the price a bit if you can point out a particular point of damage or wear. Larger chains tores may still not be able to give you a discount (don't blame the staff there, they have strict regulations to adhere to and would get in big trouble - perhaps even having to pay for the instrument themselves or lose their jobs - if they gave you discounts they weren't authorised to give you).

I do get annoyed when a guitar is meant to come with a case and the shop doesn't provide one, but usually if you point out on the manufacturer's website that the guitar is meant to include a case then any good shop will hand it over, or a similar case from a different brand if need be. Just make sure you are referencing the correct website for your country, since some guitars come with cases in some regions but in other regions they're not shipped with cases so the shop is perfectly right to not supply one. If a guitar is meant to come with a case in your region and the shop can't or won't supply one, they should give you a discount up to the value of a case; many shops will sell you the guitar at full price first, contact their distributor for an additional case and then give that to you once it comes in. Again, larger chain stores may not be able to do this - a benefit of going to smaller shops, even if they do sometimes cost more.

Above all, remember that most problems with guitars in shops happen before the instrument arrives at the store. Some guitars are never set up properly, or left the factory with clear problems. Some guitars are not shipped with cases, even when the manufacturer's site declares they should. Neither the shops or the manufacturers are to blame for these problems, most of the time. Nine times out of ten the fault lies with the distributor, whose job it is to sell instruments to shops, to ship everything correctly and to check over all stock.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#5
Because they need to have guitars out on the floor for people to play, and to have to drop their value to a used price would lose them money. It's also like, 15-30 mins of noodling around, not like they took a guitar on tour. To also have tons of extras on back stock would cost a lot of money, though I've never had any store keep the wrenches and whatnot from me. They've actually given some extras they had lying around to me before.
#6
i think you're a little paranoid man. i've hung guitars by the neck for years without any issues. the store should be relatively temperature and humidity change free...unless it's an outdoor store
.
Capitalization is the difference between "I helped my Uncle Jack off the horse" and "i helped my uncle jack off the horse"
Quote by stepchildusmc
either way your gonna need a big bucket... how you set it under the horse is up to you.
#7
what you guys are saying makes perfect sense. i just feel that a guitar that costs $2,000 plus is usually made with very high standards and tolerances so nine out of ten of those guitars play and feel identical. and for that kind of money i want a factory fresh instrument, not one that has been handled every day by people for god knows how long.
Last edited by groundwire at Apr 2, 2012,
#8
Quote by Soccerguy
Because they need to have guitars out on the floor for people to play, and to have to drop their value to a used price would lose them money. It's also like, 15-30 mins of noodling around, not like they took a guitar on tour. To also have tons of extras on back stock would cost a lot of money, though I've never had any store keep the wrenches and whatnot from me. They've actually given some extras they had lying around to me before.

this.

you really need to try a guitar before you buy it in order to know exactly what you're getting. and so does everyone else. specs can only tell you so much - each individual guitar is somewhat unique and will have its own "personality" so to speak, that can't be duplicated because no two pieces of wood are identical, and guess what most guitars are made of

i personally would rather play a guitar before i buy it so i can check it over for flaws and make sure that i actually like the guitar.. it may be the same model but by definition it's not "the same guitar" as the same model you could buy online. I'll gladly pay more for that, because i know that way i can ensure that i'm as satisfied with my purchase as i can possibly be. if you're really worried about whether anyone else has touched it with their hands, i'd like to offer some advice: don't drink water - fish fuck in it.

Quote by groundwire
i just feel that a guitar that costs $1500 plus is usually made with very high standards and tolerances so nine out of ten of those guitars play and feel identical.

not really - in many ways, more expensive guitars are even more individual, as usually you're paying for more of the manufacturing processes to be done by hand.
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
Last edited by Blompcube at Apr 2, 2012,
#9
Quote by Blompcube
this.

you really need to try a guitar before you buy it in order to know exactly what you're getting. and so does everyone else. specs can only tell you so much - each individual guitar is somewhat unique and will have its own "personality" so to speak, that can't be duplicated because no two pieces of wood are identical, and guess what most guitars are made of

i personally would rather play a guitar before i buy it so i can check it over for flaws and make sure that i actually like the guitar.. it may be the same model but by definition it's not "the same guitar" as the same model you could buy online. I'll gladly pay more for that, because i know that way i can ensure that i'm as satisfied with my purchase as i can possibly be. if you're really worried about whether anyone else has touched it with their hands, i'd like to offer some advice: don't drink water - fish fuck in it.


not really - in many ways, more expensive guitars are even more individual, as usually you're paying for more of the manufacturing processes to be done by hand.



thats true i guess but then if thats the case shops should only let serious buyers try the expensive instruments. not every little kid and person that comes in, just so they can say "yea i played $3,000 les paul, fender or whatever. thats more or less where im comming from. you dont see violin, cello, piano shops etc just let anybody and everybody come and play their $4,000 + instruments, only serious buyers.
#10
Quote by groundwire
thats true i guess but then if thats the case shops should only let serious buyers try the expensive instruments. not every little kid and person that comes in, just so they can say "yea i played $3,000 les paul, fender or whatever. thats more or less where im comming from. you dont see violin, cello, piano shops etc just let anybody and everybody come and play their $4,000 + instruments, only serious buyers.


And I've been in plenty of guitar shops that don't allow anyone but serious buyers to play their expensive products. They feel horribly impersonal and I hardly ever buy anything from shops like that.

You want something 100% brand new then go to the internet or get them to get one from the stock room, the other people who've played the instrument in the shop are the price of entry for trying the exact guitar you're going to buy. Also if it's actually damaged in some way then point it out and get them to sell it to you as shop-soiled; you're the customer, you bring the money, you have the power in this relationship.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#11
My stores refuse to even haggle on slightly damaged wall guitars. Still sell like hotcakes.
So I refuse to buy new from them.

On the plus side they let me play 12000$ worth of Prs's on sat wearing a metal studded shirt and a metal zippered hoodie. 12-15$/h = Idgaf.
#12
Quote by StonedColdCrazy
My stores refuse to even haggle on slightly damaged wall guitars. Still sell like hotcakes.
So I refuse to buy new from them.

On the plus side they let me play 12000$ worth of Prs's on sat wearing a metal studded shirt and a metal zippered hoodie. 12-15$/h = Idgaf.



yea see, the shop here is the same way. they are the only one in town so they dont discount anything damaged or heavily used at all and people still buy everything up.
and they only carry one guitar at a time so when the one on the wall sells thats it, outa stock till whenever. anyway im not gonna give them my cash, online order as always for me. its to bad to because this store is BIG, like guitar center big but they only carry one of everything so to me thats just stupid. its all used to me. three months of people playing that guitar or amp then you buy it new? anyway i guess most people dont really care. thats what i wanted to find out, thats why i posted.
#13
Quote by groundwire
also i cant get past the hanging by a hook for months before its sold thing. everybody knows that is one of THE WORST ways to store an instrument. hanging by the headstock, twisting and bending with the temp and humidity changes. i know its the nature of the beast for guitar shops but im definitely ordering my $1300 instrument online. its just a shame shops are like this.


is it really the worst way to store it? i wouldnt go that extreme as to saying that, but i prefer it because its not leaning against anything and it keeps the neck straight.
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#14
Quote by groundwire
also i cant get past the hanging by a hook for months before its sold thing. everybody knows that is one of THE WORST ways to store an instrument. hanging by the headstock, twisting and bending with the temp and humidity changes. i know its the nature of the beast for guitar shops but im definitely ordering my $1300 instrument online. its just a shame shops are like this.

There is nothing wrong with hanging a guitar by the headstock. It is not any more likely to "bend and twist" in a hanger than it is on any other kind of stand or rack.
#15
Quote by StonedColdCrazy
My stores refuse to even haggle on slightly damaged wall guitars. Still sell like hotcakes.
So I refuse to buy new from them.

You know, you're doing them a favor. Retail generally generates more margin by selling used.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
#16
Both of the guitar shops i buy from put their most expensive guitars rather high, out of reach for the general public. Gibson studio and custom les pauls for example, you have to ask a sales associate to get down for you with a ladder. if they don't feel comfortable with you handling that instrument, they wont get it down.
#17
my guitar center will just get me any guitar and let me play it. hell if i don't bring my guitar, i will have them pull a similar Gibson or Pristege to demo amps. if i want to see something in GC's vualt, they don't have a problem letting me play them, and i most times i am in i do. thats where i played the JP model (the $3k or whatever) one wihtout issue.

i have a really good and loyal salesman and half the time he has me set up somewhere playing something that 99% of the time am interested. i almost bought a Gibson Trad+ Gold Top a few months ago, but picked up some other stuff instead.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#18
because they are new guitars.

used guitars are the ones people trade in to buy new guitars.

it's pretty simple to tell as long as the right tag get's on it.

#19
At my local guitar store you have to ask to play a guitar, and are watched while doing so. Kids get kicked out for just picking up and touching them without asking. I'm a bit different in that I've spent thousands then and can just walk in and play something if I like. But for joe public, that's a big no-no and that's how it should be
#20
Quote by HKSR33
At my local guitar store you have to ask to play a guitar, and are watched while doing so. Kids get kicked out for just picking up and touching them without asking. I'm a bit different in that I've spent thousands then and can just walk in and play something if I like. But for joe public, that's a big no-no and that's how it should be


i have to say i disagree. put the pricey guitars out of reach and then they would have to ask to demo. i think the salesman should be monitoring discretely, not strait up your ass. how are they going to sell anything if nobody gets to play it. its amazing how many kids could go in there and get thrown out when they come back two weeks with their dad and buys a $2-$3k guitar. if they get pissed they lose business.

i would be turned off by asking to get a guitar to demo something. they should have a reasonable offering of low/mid range to play. nicer guitars higher place so they have to watch.

seems like it would work good to me.

i would actually be more strict on amp usage. if i had a dollar for every time i have seen some kid at GC plugging the guitar in with the amp on getting no sound asking a guy and the salesperson tells them that a speaker cable wasn't hooked up and now the OT is fried. my guy at GC says it happens more than once a week. its not his department, but he watches when he can.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#21
Quote by trashedlostfdup


i would actually be more strict on amp usage. if i had a dollar for every time i have seen some kid at GC plugging the guitar in with the amp on getting no sound asking a guy and the salesperson tells them that a speaker cable wasn't hooked up and now the OT is fried. my guy at GC says it happens more than once a week. its not his department, but he watches when he can.

This is part of the reason why I just plug into Peavey Vypyr's when I demo a guitar. They are simple, have lots of options to get a idea of the sounds and styles you want to play with a certain guitar, and they are cheap enough that no shop owner would bother watching you like a hawk when playing one.

+ Built they have a built in tuner. Its surprising how many guitar shops dont bother tuning the instruments on display. Even more surprising how many people will try to tune a guitar with a locking nut and are dumb enough to not even consider the fact that the strings are locked.
Last edited by Darkdevil725 at Apr 3, 2012,
#22
Quote by Darkdevil725
This is part of the reason why I just plug into Peavey Vypyr's when I demo a guitar. They are simple, have lots of options to get a idea of the sounds and styles you want to play with a certain guitar, and they are cheap enough that no shop owner would bother watching you like a hawk when playing one.

+ Built they have a built in tuner. Its surprising how many guitar shops dont bother tuning the instruments on display. Even more surprising how many people will try to tune a guitar with a locking nut and are dumb enough to not even consider the fact that the strings are locked.


peavey vypyrs aren't the greatest amp to demo, its digital, doesn't let the guitar's potential shine. if its a decent store it will have most of the models (except Diezel and maybe the SLO100)


so you are the shop owner and don't want to pay a $7.50 employee to tune all of the guitars, which around here the shops probably have 75+ guitars on display. thats not economical probably be 4 hours every day. for nothing. you get the guitar, spend two minutes and tune it not a big deal.

i do however get irritated when somebody tries a guitar and tries to make it B std witha a 24.75" scale. that will piss me off.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#23
most places, even GC or sam ash prefer used. they do make more money. they will give you jack for your used stuff and mark up 3-4x what they paid. they probably even make more money on midrange stuff that tehy can maybe afford to lowball you and then definitely get thier 200-300 on top opposed to a real nice guitar they know goes for a premium and the owner isnt gonna let go of easy.

i see a lot of mid range amps (such as egnaters) going for 200-300 less than retail used. if that is the case, GC paid the owner half of that, which is probably 1/3 of the retail price. it doesnt matter how old even 1 day. that is just second hand cause you walked in the store cause they have to sell it as used.

most people follow this metric that i have heard of. they find out the street price and give you half, then markup. sometimes they start from retail.

lets say you buy your high end epiphone ultra les paul or something. well used its probably still about 400 bucks. they are going to give you maybe 180-200. then they will markup to 450 on a 600-700 retail guitar.

its like a pawn shop. sure you can get more on craigslist if you want to wait months, but if you want a trade in or fast cash, Mr. Guitar center will rob you immediately
#24
Quote by groundwire
i just feel that a guitar that costs $2,000 plus is usually made with very high standards and tolerances so nine out of ten of those guitars play and feel identical.



Wrong. Very untrue.
Last edited by JustRooster at Apr 3, 2012,
#25
Quote by groundwire
thats true i guess but then if thats the case shops should only let serious buyers try the expensive instruments. not every little kid and person that comes in, just so they can say "yea i played $3,000 les paul, fender or whatever. thats more or less where im comming from. you dont see violin, cello, piano shops etc just let anybody and everybody come and play their $4,000 + instruments, only serious buyers.


i think you'll find that many shops do keep the expensive stuff out of kids hands. i know of a couple that will only allow kids to try out the expensive stuff if a parent is present. i guess if the kid whipped out 3 grand and said hey i wanna try that they would though. i find that it helps to be a regular at any guitar store so they feel more comfortable letting you try the expensive stuff. stores have to protect their interests which is fair. i try out expnsive stuff from time to time and they know i can't afford it but are cool with it becasue they know i'm carefull and don't make a habit of it (i'm 51 which helps to).
#26
The thing is, even if you've had four of exactly the same $4000 guitar in front of you in the same colour, with the same pickups and same everything, if you tried playing each of them you'd probably end up decideing that one was better.

Wood has a lot of character
#27
some people buy the one they play in the store and some people don't.

why is that so hard to understand?