#1
Keebored
GgrraaFfffFfffFfffFfff
presure. presure. pressure. fffFfffFfffFrrrRrrrRrrrRaaaAAaaagGGGgGGG.
drem. dram. drone. 
      ^^^
\\dddubbb///

        V

oen. pen, open. pren, pran, prawn, pawn.
qu(een eye dutch white glasses, gray tiht.
vVvoOocCcaAalLlyYy cCcaAaOoOLLLLLL. 

Drone. pressure. trust lips lit pushing further
past open drone pressure, ddddrrrooooooooo
                              oooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooone. 

) COals.Cowls. Kowls, Awls.Vowels. Owels, Owls. Awls.
Foulish. gather prawn lost years burnt rum roman canter.
Roaming skulk, bothering sleep, death

how u’ve groan. 
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#2
i've been seeing a lot of this kind-of stuff locally lately and the only question or comment i'm ever capable of coming up with is 'why?'
#3
Assonance, contextualized diction, free association and nonlinear form.
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#5
I hope you're not making fun of drone music.


And I'm trying to keep an open mind about this, but I can't understand what's going on at all. It doesn't seem to have much context. It's probably just me, but what's going on here?
#6
It's free association. You're not supposed to care about what it means. I'm guessing it's simply an experiment in form.
art tumblr

If I'm not raw, I'm just a bit underdone.
#7
"pressure. trust lips lit pushing further
past open drone pressure,"

"gather prawn lost years burnt rum roman canter.
Roaming skulk, bothering sleep, death

how u’ve groan. "


i think those're the most important parts, the true content of it; if so, it gave me an image, so i suppose you've accomplished something, though perhaps not what you intended.
the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn


#8
"Assonance, contextualized diction, free association and nonlinear form."

You're listing tools (hammer, screwdriver, wrench, etc etc). I'm happy you own them - i'm sure they're in a nice box as well - but you don't build things for the sake of your tools, you use your tools for the sake of the thing being built.
#9
“Let the writer take up surgery or bricklaying if he is interested in technique. There is no mechanical way to get the writing done, no shortcut. The young writer would be a fool to follow a theory.”

William Faulkner said that. I am not building a house, I am not constructing something built on formal ideas, especially when it comes to experimentation of form and assonance. Do I believe there is a time and place to say hey, I'm working on this piece and could use my screwdriver to tighten some screws? Yeah, I do, but do I believe that always having tight screws or making sure everything is level all the time is going to make me a better architect? No.

Anyway, a lot of what you said is completely against modernist mentality, the point of the work is to be a "poem" to exist as a piece of symbols existing on a screen. There are no metaphors or deep, all-encompassing epiphanies. It is simply words, and sounds some of which have been deconstructed to present themselves as alien or foreign. It's a sketch by someone who loves the presence of sound and the tone of words and what they can do when slightly altered.

Naaaaoooowww GOoo BeUlDuh a dDoOogjGg HAUS-U.
fucka
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#10
Funny you quoted Faulkner talking about the dangers of technique when what you're defending is a kind-of self referential poetry whose only purpose is the naked display of technique. You misunderstood what I was saying - i was accusing you more of writing something with absolutely no substance than for a misuse of poetic technique. The rules are meant to be broken, abused, made bloody - sure, these things are absolutely necessary - but they shouldn't be examined and deconstructed as means of self-expression. Unless, of course, your identity is composed of literary tropes and tricks (which I hope it isn't.)

P.S. The fact that you brought up "the modernist mentality" as a means of giving your work validity is wack. The work stands alone; that and the modernist mentality is a refuge for hacks and con artists.
#11
Quote by Something_Vague
Assonance, contextualized diction, free association and nonlinear form.

In other words, literary technique masturbation...

Quote by Something_Vague
a lot of what you said is completely against modernist mentality

The modernist mentality is a steaming pile of dung. Plain and simple. At least, as far as it applies as a justification for your "poem". What I mean is, don't try to justify your work by using a mentality of art. Let it stand on its own, without sullying a philosophy of art and literature by associating it with your piece. Also, the Modernist mentality is not meant to be applied in the way you're trying to apply it, I'm quite sure.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 3, 2012,
#13
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
He doesn't need to "justify" anything
He does need to explain how it's poetry of some kind...

It's about as bad as when a few writers (I can't remember of what literary school of thought) decided to eschew punctuation and just write whatever the hell they felt.
#14
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
....and just write whatever the hell they felt.


Am I missing something here? Sarcasm of some kind? I don't know, I always thought writing whatever the hell you felt was the point of writing in the first place.

The point of poetry and any creative action is expression. He expressed something here. It doesn't matter if it had a point or meaning, it simply exists. Isn't is okay for people to write something that doesn't comply with any rules? One thing I always find to be annoying is that we criticize people for how they say things, which words they use, and how they can make it better. Of course we can improve our writing and some people are more versed than others but you reach a point where what you said was exactly how you wanted to say it. ****, it was in the moment and I don't care if it can be better, I like it the way it is. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, it exists and nobody can change that now.

From what has been said, it seems as though this piece was an experiment in the subtle change of words. A study of sound. How some words roll off your tongue, how others do not. Don't be pretentious people. Criticize as much as you like for its form but to me, that indicates you don't fully understand what this is. And for that matter, what expression is.
Last edited by muel333 at Apr 3, 2012,
#15
Quote by muel333
Am I missing something here? Sarcasm of some kind? I don't know, I always thought writing whatever the hell you felt was the point of writing in the first place.
I was being partly sarcastic. But eschewing all rules of the English writing system, like grammar and punctuation, is not expressive. It's just like some teenage kid acting out because he'd "rather do his own thing". There are rules. Ignoring them completely for the sake of experimentation is fine, but one must have a greater purpose than odd literary technique simply for the sake of odd literary technique.

And for that matter, what expression is.
Aren't you being pretentious yourself in assuming this? Some expression has more a beauty to it than other forms. For instance, one can piss on a white piece of paper and call it expression, but that doesn't make it a good form of expression. In other words, this isn't "Art for art's sake".

The simple fact is, some of us clearly dislike TS's form of expression. Others of us (like yourself) like it. Let's agree to disagree.
#16
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
I was being partly sarcastic. But eschewing all rules of the English writing system, like grammar and punctuation, is not expressive. It's just like some teenage kid acting out because he'd "rather do his own thing". There are rules. Ignoring them completely for the sake of experimentation is fine, but one must have a greater purpose than odd literary technique simply for the sake of odd literary technique.


Wait a second here-- I'm going to actually read this poem.

Let's take a moment to read this poem aloud.

listen to the wealth of consonance and dissonance within the word play. it's quite beautiful at times, when you read it aloud, isn't it? just the way those words so seamlessly blend at times, only to be interrupted by a beat of harsh consonants.

now look at the poem.

notice how simply through the spelling of words do those words visually warp and thus, transform their meaning. what we're left with is a bit of distance as readers, we can't clearly see or imagine any scene or place, but he's given us enough hints such as the insertion of seemingly incongruous imagery, such as "white glasses", it stands out, but we're unsure why. but when connected to words such as "queen" and "trust lips" and even "gray tits", a female starts to take shape within this strange, seemingly incomprehensible poem.

then there's clearly the repetition, words like "drone" and "pressure", lending the poem a darker, somewhat claustrophobic sense as these words twist and bend on the screen with onomatopoeia that seems to constantly resemble a moan.

and then the end,
those last few lines:

Foulish. gather prawn lost years burnt rum roman canter.
Roaming skulk, bothering sleep, death

how u’ve groan.


with that last "groan", ( reference back to the howling onomatopoeia), the images of unsettled sleep and death, and this poem appears to be an metaphor of some terrible, possibly romantically related struggle through to a defeating, and yet almost lucid end as this where the poem more closely resembles traditional poetry form.

but even without those particular attachments and metaphors, through the words alone, if given a careful reading, do lend a sense of emotion: desperate, howling, confused emotion.
art tumblr

If I'm not raw, I'm just a bit underdone.
Last edited by Svetlova at Apr 3, 2012,
#17
I was being partly sarcastic. But eschewing all rules of the English writing system, like grammar and punctuation, is not expressive. It's just like some teenage kid acting out because he'd "rather do his own thing". There are rules. Ignoring them completely for the sake of experimentation is fine, but one must have a greater purpose than odd literary technique simply for the sake of odd literary technique.


See: William Faulkner, Kristopher Young, Walt Whitman, Jack Kerouac, Steven Hall, Thomas Pynchon, Ishmael Reed, Allen Ginsberg, the list goes on and on and on and on.

I think every writer goes through the same process but comes out differently. Some of us recognize the rules and acknowledge that occasionally they must be broken and take pride in being able to break them tastefully, while others go and read Eliot and Pope and believe the rules are the most fundamental aspects of writing and thus can never be sidestepped.
the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn


#19
Lump him in with Pope and Eliot. Though I can only say that based on reading some of Portrait. I couldn't get through it.
the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn


#20
I get this. Took a minute. Words as sounds. You can hear them. Like a radiator hum or an engine. It's an interesting idea, because I'm really into how sound can be manipulated by left field mediums.
Poor advice.
#21
Joyce is a master linguist whose contributions to culture specific colloquialisms (Irish) and how they can be used for lyrical effect was groundbreaking. Look at Ulysses or Finnegans Wake for perfect examples of assosance and sound.
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#22
Quote by muel333
One thing I always find to be annoying is that we criticize people for how they say things...


This is my point. He's not saying anything. At all.
The rules are a joke. Honestly, they are. They're there to be learned and then unlearned (and hopefully with supernatural speed). The problem here is - well, christ the problem here is the whole damn thing. When you read 'Howl' your guts are being torn up and twisted and tied into tiny knots, or your laughing, or your crying, or for the briefest moment you can see that the apostrophe attached to a word is really a fleck in the eye of the divine. Here, what is there? A dude. with a keeboard. who thinks he is very, very, very smart. And he is. But that means nothing if the word doesn't shine with that kind of death-bed glow.

P.S. Joyce is a pompous ass.
P.P.S. Matt, I love you. In a gay way.
P.P.P.S. We're cooking with gas here. I like it.
Last edited by OfLuckAndDust at Apr 4, 2012,
#24
the kids have grown up to academic debates on poetry!

how cute.

(Thanks for testing the boundaries, Matt.)

And Joyce is not a pompous ass; you just don't understand him. Don't hate what you don't understand - that trait's for those poems are written about, not by.
#25
Quote by spike_8bkp
And Joyce is not a pompous ass; you just don't understand him. Don't hate what you don't understand - that trait's for those poems are written about, not by.

I've often heard this as a justification. However, as of yet, no one's been able to explain to me what needs to be understood. What elusive concept makes, in this case, Joyce so amazing?
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 6, 2012,
#26
Christ, S_V posts an experimental poem and people start raging.

Is this 2005 again?

Grow up, the majority of you.
マリ「しあわっせはーあるいってこないだーからあるいってゆっくんだねーん 
いっちにっちいっぽみーかでさんぽ
 さーんぽすすんでにっほさっがるー 
じーんせいはっわんつー!ぱんち・・・


"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear." - from Tao Te Ching

#27
Quote by spike_8bkp
the kids have grown up to academic debates on poetry!

how cute.

(Thanks for testing the boundaries, Matt.)

And Joyce is not a pompous ass; you just don't understand him. Don't hate what you don't understand - that trait's for those poems are written about, not by.


Spike, if you want to be party to a long and endless intellectual circle jerk than be my guest (that is the true form of academia). I, however, would like to create a more lively discussion around the word we care enough (either by compulsion or boredom) to lay down. You strike me as the kind-of kid who retains a lot but really doesn't care to put forth anything new - a kind of artistic surfer riding the crest of the movement as it comes. My question to Matt was - "This seems like a fad. What is the reason behind this?" though refined to a much keener monosyllabic "Why?".

P.S. Claiming that the only reason I could possibly hate Joyce is the fact that I "don't understand him" is the favored argument of snobs. I understand Joyce. And I think he sucks. Just because he wrote legendary prose doesn't mean he's above my disdain. Get it straight, kid.
P.P.S. Matt, I read the piece you did on your Tumblr. "Pittstop." It was literally one of the best things I've read in months.
Last edited by OfLuckAndDust at Apr 6, 2012,
#28
Oh yeah, Pittstop was fantastic. I was thinking about it a couple days ago actually, but I thought it was a movie in my library for a second and I was rampantly searching for it


It left quite the impact. Really.
#29
Too bad no else in the universe read that shit. I was super proud of that.
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#30
Quote by Svetlova
It's free association. You're not supposed to care about what it means. I'm guessing it's simply an experiment in form.



Sounds super, super pretentious. As if "the man" was using poetry to keep us down and confined or something...


Negativity aside, I actually really dug this. I just don't see which 'boundaries' people are claiming this piece pushes.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
Last edited by JustRooster at Apr 8, 2012,
#31
I run a small zine in Austin, Texas. I'd love to publish "Pittstop" inside it's narrow confines if you aren't adverse. It'd give you some exposure.
#32
Shit yeah I'd love some exposure outside of Ohio. Add me on facebook man. Matthew Erman
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#33
BY THE WAY, who the **** are you? I just realized you've only got like 29 posts and you've only ever responded to my poems and your poems. WTF IS GOING ON.


some old regular i presume.
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#34
I'm Leonardo DiCaprio and this is a dream.
Actually, yeah. An old regular. The debate between you and I regarding what constitutes poetry has been running on-and-off for probably six years now. I left the site for a long time because I started to feel like it was bad hoodoo.

Also.
Added on the FB.
#36
Quote by Something_Vague
Too bad no else in the universe read that shit. I was super proud of that.

You could post it in S&L.

I mean, just because I didn't like this don't mean I won't like "Pittstop".