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#1
With several threads in the last few weeks (including a few just today) about issues regarding privacy and the web, I've started thinking about the nature of privacy. With Facebook completely changing the way people treat their day to day private life, it seems that maybe privacy isn't so valued as people think. So what do you think about privacy?

Is it a fundamental right? Do you and others have some sort of right to privacy in which others (including but not limited to the government) have no access to your inner life?

Is it something you have until you abuse it, like the ability to carry a gun in the U.S.? Is it something else entirely?

Do we have to strike a balance between privacy and safety? How could we do that?
#2
It's not hard to keep personal things private if you so choose. You just have to be careful with what you openly share on the internet.
#3
Privacy is important, and people should have the right to be private.

I generally just don't care too much/have nothing to hide/whatever.
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#4
I could answer that but it's really none of your business...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#5
To be fair stalking women is a lot easier now, although nothing replaces the thrill of hiding in the bushes.
#6
The thing with Facebook is that everything you put up there is voluntary. Probably the 'unethical' aspect of it is what they do with that information.

Other than that, I think you answered most of your questions, cap.
#7
well no one knows me on here, i like that
now extra flamey
#8
It's not a huge concern of mine. I think a lot of these privacy concerns stem from the narcissism that is rampant on the internet. The CIA and FBI have better things to do than spy on your boring, unremarkable ass.
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#9
Quote by beadhangingOne
The thing with Facebook is that everything you put up there is voluntary.

Which, I think, shows that people perhaps value privacy less than the public perception of that value.
Quote by beadhangingOne
Probably the 'unethical' aspect of it is what they do with that information.

Yes but this thread isn't really about facebook, we've already had that thread and people don't seem to care that their data is being sold for billions.
Quote by beadhangingOne

Other than that, I think you answered most of your questions, cap.

I tried to leave them all open.
#10
I believe in the phrase:

"You have to work for your meal."

VERY METAL!
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#11
Interesting topic. All i have to say is dont let any potential employers harass you about giving them your Facebook/twitter password. Some have been doing this. If they don't end up hiring you they could be sued for discrimination.
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#12
I just really can't stand it when friends of mine (always girls) take a picture with me in it and I appear on Facebook 15 minutes later. I now try to avoid being in pictures knowing that the inevitable will happen. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid.
To be honest, that side of Facebook (about 60% of it) really pisses me off.
#13
Of course I value privacy. My own and other's. I have enough sense not to spew all of my personal feelings and information out, though, on public mediums.

As long as my employers have never heard of the Pit, I'm in the clear.
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#14
Quote by Tastytaco
I just really can't stand it when friends of mine (always girls) take a picture with me in it and I appear on Facebook 15 minutes later. I now try to avoid being in pictures knowing that the inevitable will happen. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid.
To be honest, that side of Facebook (about 60% of it) really pisses me off.

The strange thing is that facebook claims ownership of those images. Even if you were in a restaurant and appear int he background of a photograph put on facebook, facebook can now own your image in that sense. So very strange.
Quote by eGraham
Of course I value privacy. My own and other's. I have enough sense not to spew all of my personal feelings and information out, though, on public mediums.

But why? That's what I want to get at. Why do you value privacy?
#15
Quote by captaincrunk
So what do you think about privacy?

I'm in favor of it.

Is it a fundamental right?

I believe rights are a fiction, so I can't answer this question.

Is it something you have until you abuse it, like the ability to carry a gun in the U.S.? Is it something else entirely?

Assuming you mean it should be something you have until you abuse it, then the gun analogy seems reasonable.

Do we have to strike a balance between privacy and safety? How could we do that?

If the alternative is to hold privacy so sacred it kills us, then obviously yes. How? This would have to judged carefully on a case by case basis. I don't know of a general formula that captures all or most scenarios.

it seems that maybe privacy isn't so valued as people think

It isn't. Many people are either myopic and exhibitionists.
#16
i value privacy 'cuz i believe we need secret cret cret cret cret cret cret cret cret cret cret crets.

i keep a pretty low profile on f/b. the only info anyone's gonna get is what music i listen to & play, the handful of TV shows i watch, & what my fav. books are.

nbd, right? ¯\_(ツ_/¯
#17
Quote by captaincrunk
But why? That's what I want to get at. Why do you value privacy?


For me it is several things. One is personality. Although I am not outright shy or socially aloof, I enjoy my privacy and thus have specific boundaries that I like to keep. ie: Family and friends stay seperate -> I don't really discuss what I do, who I date with my family (yet again, I don't quite get along with them).
Secondly, next year, I will be entering medical school. As a future physician, the image of myself has to stay clean and professional, for the sake of my patients and career.
Thirdly, what I do is my own business.
#18
I'm sure you know from my posts I do value my privacy quite a lot.


Quote by Draken
To be fair stalking women is a lot easier now, although nothing replaces the thrill of hiding in the bushes.

It's making it too easy I reckon!

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17582975
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#20
Quote by neidnarb11890
i keep a pretty low profile on f/b. the only info anyone's gonna get is what music i listen to & play, the handful of TV shows i watch, & what my fav. books are.

nbd, right? ¯\_(ツ_/¯

That's more than enough for facebook to get some pretty detailed statistics from you.
#21
Quote by Tastytaco
Thirdly, what I do is my own business.

What if you set your neighbors' kid on fire? Not that I'm judging you or anything, nor am I implying that non-consensual immolation is bad. But if you did do it, wouldn't it be other people's business?
#22
Why? That's not a question I've ever asked myself, to be perfectly honest.

I am quite a private person. Only one out of four of my roommates, who I've been rooming with for close to 2 years straight, knows that my dad is dead. I'd say that's pretty significant. (Just an example of my privacy)

But why? I dunno if I can say without putting more thought into it.
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#23
Quote by daytripper75
It's not hard to keep personal things private if you so choose. You just have to be careful with what you openly share on the internet.


This.

Social networks like Facebook give you the opportunity to edit your privacy settings via your account settings. It only takes five minutes to set everything as you would like.

Of course this doesn't cover the fact that when you'll google something, your "personal" information will be still be used to detect the corresponding ads, but there's nothing you can do for that.

Just don't be an idiot and share every single detail of your life on the internet and you should be alright.
#24
Quote by captaincrunk
That's more than enough for facebook to get some pretty detailed statistics from you.

yeah, but what are they doing with the statistics? putting ads on the side that i'm not gonna click on? idgaf.
#26
We've never valued privacy as much as we say we do, it is just that now it is so much easier to be able to hand our privacy away. In our daily lives we all decide how much of our privacy to give away and in what levels, it isn't something most people monitor.

No matter what ratio of privacy to safety there will always be some who think it is favoring one over the other. There is no ideal balance, there is just a zone that most will tolerate. To be both private and safe would require massive changes in human social behavior.
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#27
Quote by eGraham
Why? That's not a question I've ever asked myself, to be perfectly honest.

I am quite a private person. Only one out of four of my roommates, who I've been rooming with for close to 2 years straight, knows that my dad is dead. I'd say that's pretty significant. (Just an example of my privacy)

But why? I dunno if I can say without putting more thought into it.

But here's the thing... Now everyone on UG who bothers to read this post knows that. Is that really private anymore? I mean I know that it's not the "real" you on here, is that why it feels different?
Quote by neidnarb11890
yeah, but what are they doing with the statistics? putting ads on the side that i'm not gonna click on? idgaf.

You still see them. More importantly, it's not what they do, it's what others do with it.

For example, they know the political leanings of over 80% of the population. Not because they ask, because they have much more complicated algorithms utilizing information you put on there. You don't need much to fit into one of the several archetypes.
Last edited by captaincrunk at Apr 4, 2012,
#28
Quote by captaincrunk
But here's the thing... Now everyone on UG who bothers to read this post knows that. Is that really private anymore? I mean I know that it's not the "real" you on here, is that why it feels different?

I'm sure it is. I won't deny that I'm taken in by the alternate internet persona just like everyone else here.

It definitely seems easier to share personal information in a forum like this. Exhibit A, The Fetish Thread. But that could either be because everyone still retains a little anonymity, or simply that, when people aren't engaged physically, they more easily let their guard down. Similar to calling someone to break up, if it's too difficult to do it in person.

Those are just my theories, though. I do think it's an interesting topic.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#29
Quote by captaincrunk
You still see them. More importantly, it's not what they do, it's what others do with it.

For example, they know the political leanings of over 80% of the population. Not because they ask, because they have much more complicated algorithms utilizing information you put on there. You don't need much to fit into one of the several archetypes.

Don't care.
#30
Quote by eGraham
I'm sure it is. I won't deny that I'm taken in by the alternate internet persona just like everyone else here.

It definitely seems easier to share personal information in a forum like this. Exhibit A, The Fetish Thread. But that could either be because everyone still retains a little anonymity, or simply that, when people aren't engaged physically, they more easily let their guard down. Similar to calling someone to break up, if it's too difficult to do it in person.

Those are just my theories, though. I do think it's an interesting topic.

I think those are all pretty good ideas. I think it might point to what it is we really want from privacy, and why so many discussions on it are so broken.
Quote by neidnarb11890
Don't care.

You wouldn't.
#31
Quote by captaincrunk
With several threads in the last few weeks (including a few just today) about issues regarding privacy and the web, I've started thinking about the nature of privacy. With Facebook completely changing the way people treat their day to day private life, it seems that maybe privacy isn't so valued as people think. So what do you think about privacy?

Is it a fundamental right? Do you and others have some sort of right to privacy in which others (including but not limited to the government) have no access to your inner life?

Is it something you have until you abuse it, like the ability to carry a gun in the U.S.? Is it something else entirely?

Do we have to strike a balance between privacy and safety? How could we do that?



I think that, to some degree, we all have the ability to reveal certain kinds of information selectively. Whether or not it's a "fundamental right" is beyond me, but I can't imagine how you could ever entirely strip someone of their privacy . Putting someone in prison and keeping them under constant surveillance isn't going to stop them from keeping some things to themselves, and/or between them and their close companions. Or following someone around with a video camera 24/7, again, doesn't mean the entire truth about them is going to be revealed.

At the same time, there is a whole lot of personal information that is public by default. Of course this is true now more than ever. It's no secret that our government monitors us remotely, and I'm sure that what could once be called the "black list" has been imbued with a whole range of hues and tints. But the only reason it is troublesome is because our government is itself extremely secretive (and secrecy is the linchpin of abuse of power). There is something very peculiar about a government that is so interested in our lives, while at the same time it is so protective of the secrets it has.
Last edited by Arthur Curry at Apr 4, 2012,
#33
Quote by Carnivean
Interesting topic. All i have to say is dont let any potential employers harass you about giving them your Facebook/twitter password. Some have been doing this. If they don't end up hiring you they could be sued for discrimination.


Nope.

"Facebook Refusal" isn't a protected class.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#34
Others'? Yes. But I don't place much importance at all in my privacy. I believe in revealing as much of yourself as possible, as it helps bond with other humans and breaks social barriers. I would answer any question, no matter how private. But once again, I know not everyone sees things that way, so I value their privacy.
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#35
Quote by StewieSwan
It's not a huge concern of mine. I think a lot of these privacy concerns stem from the narcissism that is rampant on the internet. The CIA and FBI have better things to do than spy on your boring, unremarkable ass.

Uhm...

There are other people someone might want to protect their privacy from, yeah?

Quote by beadhangingOne
The thing with Facebook is that everything you put up there is voluntary. Probably the 'unethical' aspect of it is what they do with that information.

Other than that, I think you answered most of your questions, cap.

Everything you say on the phone is voluntary too. You'd probably flip your shit if you found out you'd been wiretapped.

Any method of communication that involves a medium for that exchange is voluntary. Ie, postal service, emails, the floo network, etc. If the same type of information gathering was being done through those rather than facebook people would be flipping their shit, or at the very least complaining in a highly over-dramatised fashion.

Quote by captaincrunk
For example, they know the political leanings of over 80% of the population. Not because they ask, because they have much more complicated algorithms utilizing information you put on there. You don't need much to fit into one of the several archetypes.

This is why I have a seperate facebook account identical to my actual one, except on the fake one it's flooded with free-market capitalist propoganda.
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#36
Yes, I dislike masturbating in public.
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#37
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
I value privacy over security.


then go through the pat down line you whiney kid.

i usually opt to go through the scanner lines with a rock hard boner. so they can be just as uncomfortable as me.
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#38
I've read quite a lot of interesting articles related to privacy (I cannot say how much of this is true though)

Like one article said that when you delete your messages on your fb, they aren't really deleted, but just tagged as "deleted" and they still persist on their servers. And when you download your data(you can do it from this link which is present in one of the settings), you won't actually see those deleted messages. Apparently this was discovered when when some people somehow managed to hack into facebook's servers and access user data.

I also remember reading some article about how facebook sets cookies which apparently store your browsing activities which are then used to serve you more targeted ads while you are logged in.

The other stuff i've read about is like iOS devices storing your location data along with timestamps in some database that is present locally on the device itself. Now why would that data be needed? And Android devices are also quite notorious about collecting lots of usage data. Not to mention the many apps on the android market that for some weird reason need permissions which seem completely unrelated to their function.

I don't really think its as simple as saying that its upto you to share your private info, because if you are even using a device like a phone to talk to someone, who knows maybe your conversation is being stored in some server somewhere? Does that mean you'd stop using phones?

I remember seeing this TED video about "Thought computing" which, as the name suggests, is interacting with a computer using your thoughts. I couldn't help but imagine a future scenario where you have computers which you control with your thoughts and have a service like facebook that collects your data(in this case your thoughts). Now how many of us can seriously say that we can control what we think at a given moment?
#39
privacy is very important to me.
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#40
Quote by Mrfussytabs
then go through the pat down line you whiney kid.

i usually opt to go through the scanner lines with a rock hard boner. so they can be just as uncomfortable as me.

Just think how uncomfortable they'd be if you went through the pat-down line with a proper throbber.
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