#1
I'm talking about REAL excellent rhythm playing, where the swag and the feel of the song is in subtleness of the pick attack, sharp transitions between chords/single notes and palm mutes, and being able to stay in sinc really well with a competent drummer.

My other guitarest is a great player, but he has trouble picking up the subtle stuff rhythm-wise for the songs that i write. For lack of better description: his rhythm is kinda "soft" and "mushy". I'd have him play lead over the majority of our music, but MY stuff in particular is basically meant to be "lead-like" in it's approach to it's rhythm. Think Megadeth's rhythm style or even Lamb of God's rhythm style. You just can't slap leads on top of some of those rhythm sections.

Not trying to self-masturbate hear, but most guitarests i've worked with seem to lack some certifications in the rhythm department.

Is it really as bad as it seems to me?
#2
Developed rhythmic playing is difficult, and it seems to be something more naiive guitarists don't recognize. However, really difficult rhythm playing isn't exactly something that you come across a lot unless you get into progressive or experimental stuff, so that likely has something to do with it.
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#3
To me, it seems like either lead guitarists demand boring rhythm playing behind them OR rhythm guitarists are afraid of outshining the lead guitarists during their solo parts. Either way, you could start to look at more experimental or progressive type of music, as Banjocal states above, there you find more interesting rhythm playing. However, there's a difference between difficult and great rhythm playing.
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#4
I dunno....i didn't have any trouble learning stuff like battery or get stoned but the hardest guitar solo I can play is enthing else matters
#5
I think that perhaps a lot of people get into guitar in their teens and just want to be the "sickezt shredder in the werld" and all thoughts of playing rhythm go out the window. Just look at all the "help me with my sweep picking" threads on this forum.

Shred/lead/solo is a real focus for a lot of people. Personally, I don't think of myself as a rhythm or lead player; but as one guitar player trying to fulfill all guitar duties. I've never been a real fan of "shred" music, but I like it when it's tastefully added to nice, brutal rhythm playing. The tight, heavy rhythm riffs are what I remember about a song, so that's what I've always worked on. To me, a solo is only great if it marries itself to an awesome riff...
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#6
I actually prefer rhythm myself. Not so much into playing leads. But then Im a solo player and not playing in a band, and prefer acoustic stuff.
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#7
When i write , i'm usually doing it by myself. So i'm trying to make riffs that are strong enough to be good in a band with only 1 guitar. Though i admit, i still write for 2 guitars sometimes, which would poss screw me if it ever Was just me live
#8
There's still some great Rhythm in a lot of progressive metal. Periphery and Meshuggah and bears oh my!
#9
I agree with you for the most part. It's fatiguing to the ear to hear song after song with elaborate shred sections but simple open string chugs the rest of the time.
#10
honestly, i hope the "rhythm" thing dies.

a guitarist should be proficient in both "Lead" and "Rhythm" playing.

duh.
#11
Quote by yearzero
I agree with you for the most part. It's fatiguing to the ear to hear song after song with elaborate shred sections but simple open string chugs the rest of the time.

*Cough Cough* Jeff Loomis *Cough*

Why does the guy always seem to turn his solo records into so many samey sounding shred-fests? He's got some killer riffs under his belt, but he always seems to go back to drowning them in wave after wave of diminished arpeggios. It drives me nuts.

Other guys are no different. I can't get into shred guitar stuff because there's almost never any rhythmic variation. I can think of only a very few lead lines that marry a sense of groove with more traditional lead ideas, and none of them were on shred records.

The best lead lines are always supported by thunderous rhythm sections. If there's nothing interesting going on in the rhythm, no amount of ludicrous speed or technicality will make your piece any less dull.
#12
Quote by Spaztikko
honestly, i hope the "rhythm" thing dies.

a guitarist should be proficient in both "Lead" and "Rhythm" playing.

duh.

^This

having a distinction between the two is just ridiculous, lots of "rhythm" guitarists are really good at lead stuff and the best "lead" guitarists have great rhythm. the problem with making a distinction between the two, kind of forces each of them to almost not even bother trying to contribute to the other's stuff.....
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#13
Quote by Geldin


The best lead lines are always supported by thunderous rhythm sections. If there's nothing interesting going on in the rhythm, no amount of ludicrous speed or technicality will make your piece any less dull.



^^This. Couldn't have said it any better myself. While the skills of a lot of shred players are impressive, I usually can't listen to more than about 5 minutes of it, because it gets boring. But the artists that can provide catchy grooves and riffs AND throw in tasteful leads here and there -- those are the bands that make me sit up and take notice.
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#14
Quote by Geldin
*Cough Cough* Jeff Loomis *Cough*

Why does the guy always seem to turn his solo records into so many samey sounding shred-fests? He's got some killer riffs under his belt, but he always seems to go back to drowning them in wave after wave of diminished arpeggios. It drives me nuts.

Other guys are no different. I can't get into shred guitar stuff because there's almost never any rhythmic variation. I can think of only a very few lead lines that marry a sense of groove with more traditional lead ideas, and none of them were on shred records.

The best lead lines are always supported by thunderous rhythm sections. If there's nothing interesting going on in the rhythm, no amount of ludicrous speed or technicality will make your piece any less dull.


This part of the reason Guthrie>>>>>>>all

Anyway, I think part of the reason good rhythm playing is dying is because of exactly what I'm seeing in this thread: people are tying rhythm playing to one genre. Personally, I think a good rhythm player should be versatile in a lot of different genres besides just metal. The big things I think to understand are space and silence, divisions of the beat, different types of rhythmic feels (swing, shuffle, straight), common practices within genres (spicing up chords in jazz, emphasizing the bass in country, developing strum patterns in folk, mixing in dyads in rock, etc.), reading chord charts, and grooving with the drummer.
#15
Quote by krypticguitar87
^This

having a distinction between the two is just ridiculous, lots of "rhythm" guitarists are really good at lead stuff and the best "lead" guitarists have great rhythm. the problem with making a distinction between the two, kind of forces each of them to almost not even bother trying to contribute to the other's stuff.....



I remember seeing a great post about this on here a while back. It said people who call themselves "lead" or "rhythm"are confessing their inability to do the other.
#16
Quote by yearzero
I remember seeing a great post about this on here a while back. It said people who call themselves "lead" or "rhythm"are confessing their inability to do the other.


Well....yea.
#17
Both are important. But I'd pick an awesome riff over an awesome solo any day. Good rhythm playing is essential, you can get away with the other.
#18
Personally, I think a good rhythm player should be versatile in a lot of different genres besides just metal. The big things I think to understand are space and silence, divisions of the beat, different types of rhythmic feels (swing, shuffle, straight), common practices within genres (spicing up chords in jazz, emphasizing the bass in country, developing strum patterns in folk, mixing in dyads in rock, etc.), reading chord charts, and grooving with the drummer.


This.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Apr 6, 2012,
#19
I thought this thread was going to be about funk and old school rhythm. Anyways, I do agree with you, rhythm has become a slow chug fest specially from crabcore bands.
#20
Quote by WalkinDude91
Anyway, I think part of the reason good rhythm playing is dying is because of exactly what I'm seeing in this thread: people are tying rhythm playing to one genre. Personally, I think a good rhythm player should be versatile in a lot of different genres besides just metal. The big things I think to understand are space and silence, divisions of the beat, different types of rhythmic feels (swing, shuffle, straight), common practices within genres (spicing up chords in jazz, emphasizing the bass in country, developing strum patterns in folk, mixing in dyads in rock, etc.), reading chord charts, and grooving with the drummer.

Absolutely agreed.
#21
Quote by purplexing
I thought this thread was going to be about funk and old school rhythm. Anyways, I do agree with you, rhythm has become a slow chug fest specially from crabcore bands.



I thought so too! LOL. Kids...

Yall need to listen to some old Al Green, Otis Redding, Isley Brothers etc.
#22
Learning old funky grooves tightened up my rhythm chops, despite the fact that I mostly play metal.
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#23
If you by "rhythm guitar" mean guitar based around playing anything but "lead" then i don't know, but i doubt it. I just think we live in one of those times where people are more concerned about how they play "lead", but everyone (i really hope) realise at some point that guitar playing is something to look upon as a whole, not just one kind of playing.

But if you mean rhythmic playing then no. Music is just as always progressing and new rhythmic ideas are always developing. In different styles of metal with bands like Periphery, TesseracT, Dream theater etc. In funk, jazz, fusion. Everything is developing.

Video that came to mind speaking of rhythmic playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As0qoBUvJnE
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#24
Quote by Vecheka
Learning old funky grooves tightened up my rhythm chops, despite the fact that I mostly play metal.


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#25
It may be, but honestly, a good rhythm player has a much stronger chance of becoming successful than a good lead player.