Poll: Immoral to dislike a culture (in general)
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View poll results: Immoral to dislike a culture (in general)
Yes
5 4%
No
91 81%
It depends [explain in post]
17 15%
Voters: 113.
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#1
Or rather, to dislike the cultural quirks and warpings exhibited on an individual due to being born wherever they are born, which we all have of course due to our respective birthplaces.

Keep in mind i am keeping this seperate to race or any of that sort, this could happen between two different cities in the same country basically. But obviously in reality cultural differences are seen across larger distances.

The reason i ask is, for an example, if i knew someone who was a serious anime fanatic to the extreme extent to the point of acting like the definition of a weeaboo as some would say, then i'd probably find them incredibly annoying and not want to be friends with them. However, it's obvious too that this person is not immoral, and i wouldn't call them immoral.

That's just one example but it is obvious that there is more to what makes us all dislike who we dislike than if that person is moral. Plenty of people can be moral but still piss us off, individually. One guy in my class hasn't done anything that makes me think he is immoral as such, but he's like the personification of Ned Flanders and overly jolly people like that grate on my nerves and i wish they'd shutup.

This brings me to the point of my question, is it immoral to dislike a certain culture or aspect of the culture? If someone said 'i don't like people from x country' or 'i never got along well overall in x' is it a bad thing? Are they being a bad person by saying those things or similar? Providing they meant it in regards to cultural differences and not just 'i dont like them cus of their skin' or any of that shit.

Poll coming soon
Last edited by Zoot Allures at Apr 9, 2012,
#2
I don't know if I would go so far as to call it immoral, but perhaps it is ignorant or arrogant depending on the context. Stating that you dislike an entire culture, say for instance of one particular country, is ignorant because you'd likely not have been exposed to much of it. Stating that you dislike a culture like some "weaboo"s (albeit more understandable), is probably more so arrogant, because your assuming the superiority of your personal preference in cultures (I suppose it would be easier to say your tastes/aesthetics).

Such is the nature of subjectivity though. I would not call it immoral unless you act immorally upon it by going out of your way to harm or destroy something/someone.
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#4
Quote by SlackerBabbath
It's ok to dislike the cultural traditions of a person, but not the person for having those cultural traditions.

What if they're from Aberdeen, and the cultural tradition is sheep shagging?
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#5
Quote by SlackerBabbath
It's ok to dislike the cultural traditions of a person, but not the person for having those cultural traditions.


What he said. As long you don't hate the people for it you're fine. I, personally, can't stand it when bible thumpers show up my door and try to force their beliefs on me. This might seem culturally ignorant but it scared me one time a Muslam woman in full get up was walking towards me at night, not cause I'm afraid cause of 9-11 or anything, it's just all I could see was her eyes and she looked like a mad ninja.
#6
Quote by doofus41
What he said. As long you don't hate the people for it you're fine. I, personally, can't stand it when bible thumpers show up my door and try to force their beliefs on me. This might seem culturally ignorant but it scared me one time a Muslam woman in full get up was walking towards me at night, not cause I'm afraid cause of 9-11 or anything, it's just all I could see was her eyes and she looked like a mad ninja.

How do you know it wasn't a ninja in disguise?
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#7
There are some cultures that include cannibalism and human sacrifice. Anybody subscribing to that culture is not showing any objection to these acts, so they're not my kind of person. I would dislike their culture and them. I don't think it's immoral to dislike people on those grounds given that many people dislike murderers for their actions.
#8
Quote by CrimsonBizzare
There are some cultures that include cannibalism and human sacrifice.

Name one culture that is currently practicing cannibalism and human sacrifice.
#9
As long as you accept that others dislike you because they hate your culture.. Otherwise you're a hypocrite.

But I dislike individuals on their own, I grew up in a very mixed area (Kazakhstan) where Muslims, Jews, Christians, Orthodox, Buddhist, etc. all live together. These are religious views alone. There are more than 100 nationalities varying from Turkic people to Germanic people to Slavic people to Chinese people to Persian people, etc. living together..

I learned that cultures can not be disliked, you can find people to talk to in every culture, but some cultures are less socially developed (because of colonization, wars, etc) and well be less likely to socialize with you on the same level. That's why there's a big culture/social gap for instance between Arab people that went through a war (so called terrorists) and western people that supported the war for no reason (so called rednecks). So it will be harder to find a person to get alone with because you are prejudiced and the person who you're willing to talk to is also prejudiced.

Same thing with Afro-Americans and Whites in the US. It was started with one thing; the slavery and this caused an infinite chain reaction.

Just respect everyone by their means and you'll get the same thing back I guess?
Last edited by AmirT at Apr 9, 2012,
#10
Quote by Zoot Allures
The reason i ask is, for an example, if i knew someone who was a serious anime fanatic to the extreme extent to the point of acting like the definition of a weeaboo as some would say, then i'd probably find them incredibly annoying and not want to be friends with them. However, it's obvious too that this person is not immoral, and i wouldn't call them immoral.


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Last edited by hriday_hazarika at Apr 9, 2012,
#12
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Name one culture that is currently practicing cannibalism and human sacrifice.

It still happens in some parts in Africa, and somewhere in Chile as well as recently as 2004 and 2008.
#13
Quote by slapsymcdougal
What if they're from Aberdeen, and the cultural tradition is sheep shagging?


Depends upon whether the sex is consentual or not.
#14
This is probably a strawman, and I'm not sure how accurate the source is but y'know, here we go.

There's been a documentary on at the minute in the UK called 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' (documentary about the Travelling community's extravagant wedding ceremonies), wherein they have this 'grabbing' thing. Where guys will grab girls and try to kiss them/more and the girls MUST resist, (they're very strong on no sex before marriage etc.) None of them seem to think it's bad or wrong, (at least to the camera, I think there's quite possibly vehement disagreement with it from some of them) yet this is the kind of thing I'd be intervening with if I saw on a night out.
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Last edited by Cal UK at Apr 9, 2012,
#15
Quote by SlackerBabbath
It's ok to dislike the cultural traditions of a person, but not the person for having those cultural traditions.


Some places in new guinea i think?

I heard somewhere that some African witch doctors believe eating albinos gives you special powers.

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#16
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Depends upon whether the sex is consentual or not.

You have sheep that can consent in Lancashire!? Need to get me on the first bus across...
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#17
I've disliked every Russian person I've met so far. And not only because of my personal grudges against the country, they were just ridiculous and completely untrusworthy people. My friends got along with them well though.
#18
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Name one culture that is currently practicing cannibalism and human sacrifice.

Some African/S. American tribes sacrifice (also, cults who illegally sacrifice in developed Western countries if they count as cultures) and cannibalism is by some tribes in Pupua.

But those two were just extreme examples. The case is the same for any action that a culture condones that you perceive as immoral/rude/unacceptable. As a better example, is it immoral to dislike a culture which is oppressive towards women?
Last edited by CrimsonBizzare at Apr 9, 2012,
#19
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Depends upon whether the sex is consentual or not.

I think that only happens when the sheep is actually Prince Ludwig the Indestructible in disguise.
Quote by CrimsonBizzare
Some African/S. American tribes sacrifice (also, cults who illegally sacrifice in developed Western countries if they count as cultures) and cannibalism is by some tribes in Pupua.

But those two were just extreme examples. The case is the same for any action that a culture condones an action that you perceive as immoral/rude/unacceptable. As a better example, is it immoral to dislike a culture which is oppressive towards women?

Aren't there places in sub-Saharan Africa where female circumcision(or genital mutilation) is still a 'cultural' practice?
I think it's fine to hate that one.
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Last edited by slapsymcdougal at Apr 9, 2012,
#20
Quote by The_Casinator
It still happens in some parts in Africa, and somewhere in Chile as well as recently as 2004 and 2008.

Quote by Jiggzy.UK
Some places in new guinea i think?

I heard somewhere that some African witch doctors believe eating albinos gives you special powers


Those are not officialy cultural practices because the cultures that they happened within deem such acts as illegal. They are no more cultural practices there than they would be if someone sacrificed or ate a human in Britain.... where, might I add, human sacrifice and cannibalism was once culturaly accepted.
#21
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Those are not officialy cultural practices because the cultures that they happened within deem such acts as illegal. They are no more cultural practices there than they would be if someone sacrificed or ate a human in Britain.... where, might I add, human sacrifice and cannibalism was once culturaly accepted.

So it has to be an 'offical' practice for the purposes of this thread, like a Khazak village's village rapist?
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#22
Quote by slapsymcdougal
So it has to be an 'offical' practice for the purposes of this thread, like a Khazak village's village rapist?


Well think about it, if the culture itself deems something as immoral enough to declare it illegal, then it's can hardly be defined as a 'cultural' practice anymore, and must alternatively be defined as an 'illegal' practice, just like it's deemed anywhere else in the world.
#23
Quote by Cal UK
This is probably a strawman, and I'm not sure how accurate the source is but y'now, here we go.

For UK viewers of the show 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' (documentary about the Travelling communitie extravagant wedding ceremonies), they have this 'grabbing' thing. Where guys will grab girls and try to kiss them/more and the girls MUST resist, (they're very strong on no sex before marriage etc.) None of them seem to think it's bad or wrong, (at least to the camera, I think there's quite possibly vehement disagreement with it from some of them) yet this is the kind of thing I'd be intervening with if I saw on a night out.


Great piece on this and various related things here.

EDIT: More here too.
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Last edited by Cloaca at Apr 9, 2012,
#25
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Well think about it, if the culture itself deems something as immoral enough to declare it illegal, then it's can hardly be defined as a 'cultural' practice anymore, and must alternatively be defined as an 'illegal' practice, just like it's deemed anywhere else in the world.

The problem there is you're equating a culture with a population(or legislative body).
They don't always keep in step.
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#26
So basically you're asking if it's immoral to dislike a culture or people from said culture purely on your own principles and your own culture?
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#27
It's okay to dislike whatever you want, but you can't complain if other people judge you for it.

I mean, personally I think disliking an entire culture is ignorant, but it isn't any of my business.
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Last edited by guitarxo at Apr 9, 2012,
#29
It depends on the culture. If its a culture that gets out of their way to proclaim that their culture is superior or to join them (Jehovah's witness for example) or a culture that has the intention to inflict harm on others, then i don't see disliking them as being a particularly bad thing.
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#30
Quote by slapsymcdougal
The problem there is you're equating a culture with a population(or legislative body).
They don't always keep in step.


You can't have a culture without a population. Cultures happen within populations, but if certain cultural practices are deemed as immoral and illegal by the population, then the cultural practice becomes just another illegal act.

Otherwise, any group of people could get together and decide to go on a killing spree and say it's ok because they've just implemented killing others as a cultural act.
#31
Quote by SlackerBabbath
It's ok to dislike the cultural traditions of a person, but not the person for having those cultural traditions.



This is contradictory to "Judge someone on their actions, not their words."
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#33
Quote by SlackerBabbath
You can't have a culture without a population. Cultures happen within populations, but if certain cultural practices are deemed as immoral and illegal by the population, then the cultural practice becomes just another illegal act.

Otherwise, any group of people could get together and decide to go on a killing spree and say it's ok because they've just implemented killing others as a cultural act.

I'm talking about acts with a cultural precedent.
Take morris dancing as an example. An undeniably cultural activity; yet most of the population which contains the culture which indulges in morris dancing thinks it's ****ing stupid. Some of those who do morris dancing think it's fun, for some it's srs bsns.
Population and culture totally out of step.
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#34
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Can you expand upon that?



Most people agree that you should judge someone by their actions, yes? But in your post you say that you shouldn't judge someone for practicing something that is part of their culture, but merely judge the practice itself. Isn't partaking in a culturally influenced action still an action?

For example, if I see a Saudi husband abusing a wife, I will dislike the action, but I will also dislike the man for doing that action. No essays on the treatment of women in Saudi society please. It's just an example.
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#35
I'm not really a big fan of moral or cultural relativism. There's nothing wrong with disliking a culture as long as you don't violate human rights. For instance, I think it's perfectly acceptable to dislike Nazi or fascist culture, or even particularly oppressive theocracies.
#36
This planet is full of cultures I find deplorable. I don't think that fact makes me an immoral person.
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#37
Quote by Jackal58
This planet is full of cultures I find deplorable. I don't think that fact makes me an immoral person.


This. One of these cultures (I prefer to call them a cult, but whatever floats your boat ) is actually this church in Indiana that comes to the Chicago area every week to try to convert.
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#38
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm talking about acts with a cultural precedent.
Take morris dancing as an example. An undeniably cultural activity; yet most of the population which contains the culture which indulges in morris dancing thinks it's ****ing stupid. Some of those who do morris dancing think it's fun, for some it's srs bsns.
Population and culture totally out of step.


Although most of the population which contains the culture which indulges in morris dancing thinks it's ****ing stupid, they don't think it's immoral and should be made illegal. It's treated as a harmless pass-time, which makes it culturally OK. That would make it a case of population and culture being in step, or at least being tolerant of each other.

The point I'm making though is that human sacrifice and cannibalism were once almost world wide practices, we know this from human fossil records. Practicaly every culture has such things in their distant past, but we wouldn't say that someone from Britain who kills and eats someone is merely following a cultural tradition, chiefly because such acts are illegal here, so what's the difference? Why is it that a culture which has more recently made such acts illegal treated differently to a culture that made such acts illegal a long time ago?

Surely the moment when such acts are made illegal in a culture is what defines something as cultural or not? When a culture makes such acts illegal, then surely that is the moment when the act is no longer classed as a cultural act?
#39
Quote by Zoot Allures
The reason i ask is, for an example, if i knew someone who was a serious anime fanatic to the extreme extent to the point of acting like the definition of a weeaboo as some would say, then i'd probably find them incredibly annoying and not want to be friends with them. However, it's obvious too that this person is not immoral, and i wouldn't call them immoral.


I think it's a little different when it comes to weaboos and people like whiggers. I wouldn't call them immoral, but they tend to be annoying as hell.
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#40
Quote by StewieSwan
Most people agree that you should judge someone by their actions, yes? But in your post you say that you shouldn't judge someone for practicing something that is part of their culture, but merely judge the practice itself. Isn't partaking in a culturally influenced action still an action?

For example, if I see a Saudi husband abusing a wife, I will dislike the action, but I will also dislike the man for doing that action. No essays on the treatment of women in Saudi society please. It's just an example.


I see what you're saying, but if the wife abuser has been raised to think that wife abuse is OK, then surely that should count for something?
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