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#1
Was thinking about this recently. After I got into a semi-argument after someone starting taking the piss because I write Metalcore music, he seemed to just assume all Metalcore sounded like Asking Alexandria.

So I got to thinking, what IS Metalcore? What makes it more Hardcore then Metal yet more Metal than Hardcore?

I know there is no one right answer for this so just share your thoughts I guess.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



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#5
Well yeah... but WHY is Converge Metalcore?
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
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#6
Quote by ChemicalFire
I know there is no one right answer for this so just share your thoughts I guess.

There is a right answer to this.

Metalcore originated in the late 80's with bands like Integrity playing a heavier, darker variety of hardcore. It's essentially hardcore by dudes who were really into old Slayer records. When you listen to late 80's and early 90's hardcore (Inside Out, Youth of Today, etc.) it seems like "metalcore" was an appropriate moniker because it set the two very distinct musical groups apart, despite the fact that they were both encompassed under the umbrella of "hardcore."

Listen to these and you will understand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuGuy3QSRSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhbTA5Eiv1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0o2NiZnB9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TB6LnltciU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn7a9V96BLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4QsRmm6Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LaW7FsFYnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZWTjXAFgs
Last edited by JxD at Apr 9, 2012,
#7
It depends who you ask.
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#8
Its basically metal with bad song form, and more punk-style attitude, or inversely its hardcore by someone who learned a bit more about guitar playing, less about singing, and just said screw form
#9
Basically, if you ask most people on here, they'll tell you Converge is the only "tr00" metalcore band. I think any band that displays at least equal inspiration from both hardcore and metal is considered metalcore. I DON'T consider bands like AA to be anywhere near metalcore. They're just scene music that should be wiped off the face of the earth. To me, "real" metalcore would be like Converge, Botch, Integrity, Earth Crisis, Strongarm, Shai Hulud, etc.


Quote by Bad Kharmel
Its basically metal with bad song form, and more punk-style attitude, or inversely its hardcore by someone who learned a bit more about guitar playing, less about singing, and just said screw form

Are you kidding me? Get the fuck out of here.
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#10
It goes BUM DA BUM BUM and then it becomes YAY AY AY EHHHHH and then goes into a WEEKKK BEEK DIDLEEKKKK and then back to BUM DA BUM BUM.

OT: I think it's Hardcore music that utilizes the speed and chaotic nature of Hardcore, but adds the menacing atmosphere and more technical riffing of Extreme Metal.
#11
I can understand why something like Converge is Metalcore, there the genre name make sense.

So what is Killswitch Engage? Or the "Chugcore" bands like Emmure (in b4 shitcore)?
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



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You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#12
Metalcore is the son of God. Metalcore is our Lord and Savior. Metalcore is the only way into Heaven.
#13
All the melody of metal with the guitar virtuosity of punk rock.
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#14
Quote by ChemicalFire

So what is Killswitch Engage? Or the "Chugcore" bands like Emmure (in b4 shitcore)?

Some kids would say nu-metalcore. I think the term is stupid, but there ya go.
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#15
Quote by ChemicalFire
I can understand why something like Converge is Metalcore, there the genre name make sense.

So what is Killswitch Engage? Or the "Chugcore" bands like Emmure (in b4 shitcore)?


New Wave Of American Heavy Metal.

#16
Quote by synestershadows
Some kids would say nu-metalcore. I think the term is stupid, but there ya go.

To me, Killswitch Engage sound like a cross between watered down Shai Hulud riffs (like reaaaaaaally watered down) and nu-metal. Makes sense to me.

But really, for bands like Killswitch Engage etc, I think "bad metal" pretty much covers it. It's dumbed down metal for angsty 14 year olds. There's no hardcore involved.
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#17
Quote by asator
To me, Killswitch Engage sound like a cross between watered down Shai Hulud riffs (like reaaaaaaally watered down) and nu-metal. Makes sense to me.

But really, for bands like Killswitch Engage etc, I think "bad metal" pretty much covers it. It's dumbed down metal for angsty 14 year olds. There's no hardcore involved.

That's actually a really good way of describing it.
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#18
Quote by asator
To me, Killswitch Engage sound like a cross between watered down Shai Hulud riffs (like reaaaaaaally watered down) and nu-metal. Makes sense to me.

But really, for bands like Killswitch Engage etc, I think "bad metal" pretty much covers it. It's dumbed down metal for angsty 14 year olds. There's no hardcore involved.

Nu-Metal?...Could you give me an example of what Nu-Metal sounds like to you? O_o
#20
Quote by Morphogenesis26
Nu-Metal?...Could you give me an example of what Nu-Metal sounds like to you? O_o

Howard Jones' singing was so nu-metal sounding. You can't deny that.
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#21
Quote by synestershadows
Howard Jones' singing was so nu-metal sounding. You can't deny that.


So was Daniel Gildenlow's vocals in PoS and the vocalist of Anathema on their debut album. Doesn't mean much though. I want to know from an overall musical aspect.
#22
I would say KsE are closer to "real" metalcore than 95% of the bands that came after them, primarily because those guys were actually big into the hardcore scene around their area when they formed. They weren't just guys going "yeah, At the Gates riffs + breakdowns = awesome", they were Shai Hulud and Earth Crisis fans who just added more melody. That's where the divide starts, for me, when it starts becoming a matter of "are they metallic hardcore" or "are they a Killswitch Engage wannabe-band".
/2c
#23
Killswitch to me sound like they were the last generation of (popular) bands in that scene to actually be influenced by metalcore. Like it seems as if they tried to be a metalcore band, and ended up with their own sound. Kinda like how apparently Silverstein tried to sound like Braid and Mineral mixed with hardcore, and were trying to be an emo band, but turned out the way they were.
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#24
Listening to SotS and Killswitch Engage(Debut) I can hear some definite influence a long with the Shai Hulud and Earth Crisis influence. I just don't understand the Nu-Metal part since Nu-Metal prided itself on hip-hop style drum beats and wet, grooving riffs. I don't hear that in Killswitch.
#25
I'm obviously not claiming that I'm hearing rap parts and shit in Killswitch songs. I mean the vocals. Namely the clean ones. To me, that sounds like a progression from nu-metal. I don't even know if Killswitch Engage is a good example of that, because I'm not really 100% on what they sound like. But lots of bands like them give off that vibe to me.

I'm pretty sure what Joey meant when he started calling things "nu-metalcore" was that those bands are to metalcore what nu-metal was to metal.
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#26
Quote by datskramzkid
Killswitch to me sound like they were the last generation of (popular) bands in that scene to actually be influenced by metalcore. Like it seems as if they tried to be a metalcore band, and ended up with their own sound. Kinda like how apparently Silverstein tried to sound like Braid and Mineral mixed with hardcore, and were trying to be an emo band, but turned out the way they were.

It's crazy knowing Silverstein listens to all this screamo and hardcore music. It just doesn't seem like them.
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#27
I couldn't believe that Silverstein knew who Orchid were. Their music is godawful, and that cover was unnecessary and irritating, but it's still really weird knowing that they like similar stuff to me but they came out with...that.
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#28
Quote by asator
I couldn't believe that Silverstein knew who Orchid were. Their music is godawful, and that cover was unnecessary and irritating, but it's still really weird knowing that they like similar stuff to me but they came out with...that.

Yeah, Orchid is pretty crazy. I actually dug that cover. That whole Short Songs album was pretty neat. Way better than the rest of the stuff they've done.
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#29
Quote by asator
I'm obviously not claiming that I'm hearing rap parts and shit in Killswitch songs. I mean the vocals. Namely the clean ones. To me, that sounds like a progression from nu-metal. I don't even know if Killswitch Engage is a good example of that, because I'm not really 100% on what they sound like. But lots of bands like them give off that vibe to me.

I'm pretty sure what Joey meant when he started calling things "nu-metalcore" was that those bands are to metalcore what nu-metal was to metal.


I don't disagree at all with the vocals that Howard dishes out later on, but they don't really share anything in common with Nu-Metal except the random riff across their Discography.
#30
Quote by asator
I couldn't believe that Silverstein knew who Orchid were. Their music is godawful, and that cover was unnecessary and irritating, but it's still really weird knowing that they like similar stuff to me but they came out with...that.


dat cash flow
#31
Quote by JxD
There is a right answer to this.

Metalcore originated in the late 80's with bands like Integrity playing a heavier, darker variety of hardcore. It's essentially hardcore by dudes who were really into old Slayer records. When you listen to late 80's and early 90's hardcore (Inside Out, Youth of Today, etc.) it seems like "metalcore" was an appropriate moniker because it set the two very distinct musical groups apart, despite the fact that they were both encompassed under the umbrella of "hardcore."

Listen to these and you will understand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuGuy3QSRSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhbTA5Eiv1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0o2NiZnB9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TB6LnltciU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn7a9V96BLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4QsRmm6Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LaW7FsFYnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZWTjXAFgs


This, this, this so much.

And nu-metalcore doesn't mean that the bands share a passing resemblance to nu-metal; it means that they share a passing resemblance to metalcore.

When I say nu-metalcore, I mean stuff like Underoath, Misery Signals, Darkest Hour etc - stuff like AA! isn't even music, so...
#32
REALLY NOT TRYING TO START ANYTHING HERE, PLEASE DON'T ARGUE ABOUT THIS, THIS IS MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION

But I would put Misery Signals more on the proper side of metalcore, rather than nu-metalcore. Just since, again, they were proper HxC dudes who just played more melodic Shai Hulud style stuff. Especially with the random dissonance they bring into their actual riffs, not just the minor second ring outs over breakdowns that nu-metalcore normally does.
/2c

Anyway, the way I've always seen it was a bunch of stages;

1--> Metallic Hardcore (not my area, but already covered pretty well by JxD)
2--> original Metalcore (Converge, Botch, Earth Crisis, Shai Hulud, which leads to stuff like 7 Angels, 7 Plagues, and then Misery Signals, etc)
3--> metalcore when metalcore became "a thing" [also known as At the Gatescore] (KsE, As I Lay Dying, Unearth, Shadows Fall, Bleeding Through, etc)
4--> Metalcore that everyone thinks is metalcore today [ie; Misery Signalscore] (August Burns Red, For the Fallen Dreams, Asking Alexandria, and basically anything else that sounds like those three).

And "nu-metalcore" sits nicely between 3 and 4, straddling both.
Keep in mind, none of that is solid, just my own vague ramblings about how I keep them all seperate in my head. /shrugs
Last edited by Magero at Apr 10, 2012,
#33
Quote by Magero
Anyway, the way I've always seen it was a bunch of stages;

1--> Metallic Hardcore (not my area, but already covered pretty well by JxD)
2--> original Metalcore (Converge, Botch, Earth Crisis, Shai Hulud, which leads to stuff like 7 Angels, 7 Plagues, and then Misery Signals, etc)
3--> metalcore when metalcore became "a thing" [also known as At the Gatescore] (KsE, As I Lay Dying, Unearth, Shadows Fall, Bleeding Through, etc)
4--> Metalcore when metalcore no longer became "a thing" and was filled with repetitive Nu-Metalcore bands.(The Sorrow, Still Remains, Silent Civilian, Caliban, etc.)
5--> Metalcore that everyone thinks is metalcore today [ie; Misery Signalscore] (August Burns Red, For the Fallen Dreams, Asking Alexandria, and basically anything else that sounds like those three).

And "nu-metalcore" sits nicely between 3 and 4, straddling both.
Keep in mind, none of that is solid, just my own vague ramblings about how I keep them all seperate in my head. /shrugs


There. Number 4 is now my opinion on what Nu-Metalcore bands are. Those bands started to take from the popular AtG lovin bands, but they tended to have Nu-Metal backgrounds and brought some of it into their music.

I'd still give bands like Unearth and Shadows Fall a proper classification.
#34
I've honestly never heard of Misery Signals-core.

Not really sure how a connection between AA and Mis Sigs can be made =S
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#35
Quote by ChemicalFire
I've honestly never heard of Misery Signals-core.

Not really sure how a connection between AA and Mis Sigs can be made =S

"Misery Signals-core" = melodic metalcore = ringing chords, breakdowns, shitty pseudo-inspirational lyrics, the same five shirt designs with said lyrics
#36
Quote by MustangMan311
"Misery Signals-core" = melodic metalcore = ringing chords, breakdowns, shitty pseudo-inspirational lyrics, the same five shirt designs with said lyrics


Don't forget the twinkly, faux-techy lead lines.
#37
Where do bands like The Dillinger Escape plan fit in? Is Mathcore related to metalcore?

Similarly where do bands like Architects and The Arusha Accord fit in?

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Last edited by EndTheRapture51 at Apr 10, 2012,
#38
Quote by JxD
There is a right answer to this.

Metalcore originated in the late 80's with bands like Integrity playing a heavier, darker variety of hardcore. It's essentially hardcore by dudes who were really into old Slayer records. When you listen to late 80's and early 90's hardcore (Inside Out, Youth of Today, etc.) it seems like "metalcore" was an appropriate moniker because it set the two very distinct musical groups apart, despite the fact that they were both encompassed under the umbrella of "hardcore."

Listen to these and you will understand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuGuy3QSRSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhbTA5Eiv1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0o2NiZnB9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TB6LnltciU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn7a9V96BLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4QsRmm6Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LaW7FsFYnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZWTjXAFgs


It's this, he is correct.

To elaborate further bands like Converge, Botch, Coalesce, Cave In, 7 Angels 7 plagues, etc are also metalcore because they took direct influence from these bands and expanded upon it and intensified it.

Bands like AA (any of those AA ones) or whatever it is the kids are into these days aren't metalcore, they weren't influenced by any metalcore bands and they don't know what metalcore actually is.. they've just tried to steal the name cause they're misinformed and don't know the difference.
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#39
It's ignorance breeding ignorance. One mislabel leads to another band thinking that they're that genre, leading other people to think that that's what the genre is, and it snowballs until emo means Hawthorne Heights and Asking Alexandria is metalcore.
#40
Quote by blake1221
It's ignorance breeding ignorance. One mislabel leads to another band thinking that they're that genre, leading other people to think that that's what the genre is, and it snowballs until emo means Hawthorne Heights and Asking Alexandria is metalcore.

It's this and it's because people just assume what genres are without ever finding out. Like "oh screamo, that must be any music with screaming" "oh metalcore, must be metal with breakdowns" "emo is short for emotional, all music can be emotional" "hurr durr durr etc etc."
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