#1
I'm learning the CAGED system by using a site and basically it's saying get familiar with all Major chord of the CAGED system, but mix it up and try it in all 12 keys. What does that exactly mean try it in different keys?

Exact quote of the site: " Practice these chord positions regularly until you know them inside out and make sure you practice them in all twelve keys, this is extremely important. If you can’t use them in all keys then you are never going to see any benefit from using this method. "
Last edited by srvfan2022 at Apr 12, 2012,
#2
They got it wrong. They mean to try all 12 keys in the cage, to see which one will open it. Only then will your fretboard become unlocked.... mwahahaha.

Basically, you need start learning theory from the very beginning to even understand what a "key" actually is...
Last edited by mdc at Apr 12, 2012,
#3
Quote by srvfan2022
I'm learning the CAGED system by using a site and basically it's saying get familiar with all Major chord of the CAGED system, but mix it up and try it in all 12 keys. What does that exactly mean try it in different keys?

Exact quote of the site: " Practice these chord positions regularly until you know them inside out and make sure you practice them in all twelve keys, this is extremely important. If you can’t use them in all keys then you are never going to see any benefit from using this method. "


You would just move the entire pattern up or down "X" number of frets, and learn it there. Assuming you're practicing in C major, if you went up 2 frets, now you'd be in D major, up 4, you'd be in E Major. Down 2 frets, you'd be in B flat. But, what are the note names under your fingers now? That's what they're saying you must learn

What they're saying is, simply moving the pattern isn't enough. You must be able to name the chords in the new positions, plus the names of the notes on the fret board at the new position. There simply isn't a shortcut for this.

God, I hope that's right...MDC....?
Last edited by Captaincranky at Apr 12, 2012,
#4
Quote by Captaincranky
You would just move the entire pattern up or down "X" number of frets, and learn it there. Assuming you're practicing in C major, if you went up 2 frets, now you'd be in D major, up 4, you'd be in E Major. Down 2 frets, you'd be in B flat. But, what are the note names under your fingers now? That's what they're saying you must learn

What they're saying is, simply moving the pattern isn't enough. You must be able to name the chords in the new positions, plus the names of the notes on the fret board at the new position. There simply isn't a shortcut for this.

God, I hope that's right...MDC....?


That makes sense, I've always been confused with the whole playing in different keys, or converting keys I should say.

And mdc, I know alittle theory, definitely enough to atleast try and tackle the CAGED system, just a little confusion was had here.
#5
MDC? Nearly everybody does this... How hard can it be to type 3 letters correctly?
#6
Quote by mdc
MDC? Nearly everybody does this... How hard can it be to type 3 letters correctly?
Proper names are always capitalized. Although you choose not to capitalize these letters, I interpret them as initials. So,"mdc" to us, is your proper name for the forum, hence the caps. At least, for better or worse, that's my reasoning.
#7
You would just move the entire pattern up or down "X" number of frets, and learn it there.
If you learn the CAGED system in G, then apply it in A, by moving the whole thing up two frets, then thats absolutely pointless.

The whole idea of the system is that you can play through all 12 keys in any one area of the fretboard.

Go round the circle 4ths in one area only.
-0-1---3-4-1-2---4-5-2-3-
-1-1-3-4-1-2-2-4-5-2-3-3-5
-0-2-3-3-1-1-3-4-4-2-2-4-5
-2-3-3-1-1-3-4-4-2-2-4-5-5
-3-3-1---3-4-4-2---4-5-5-3
---1-----4---2-----5---3
Last edited by mdc at Apr 13, 2012,
#8
Quote by srvfan2022
I'm learning the CAGED system by using a site and basically it's saying get familiar with all Major chord of the CAGED system, but mix it up and try it in all 12 keys. What does that exactly mean try it in different keys?

Exact quote of the site: " Practice these chord positions regularly until you know them inside out and make sure you practice them in all twelve keys, this is extremely important. If you can’t use them in all keys then you are never going to see any benefit from using this method. "

Do you have a link? What are "these chord positions" referring to?

My guess is that the chord position is referring to the five chord shapes that can be used to play any major chord in five places across the fretboard.

So A could be played using one of five different shapes each in it's own position across the fretboard. Those shapes being the following five chords

0 5 5 9 9
2 2 5 10 10
2 2 6 9 9
2 2 7 7 11
0 4 7 x 12
x 5 5 x x

This would be the tonic chord of a given "key".
So by saying play it in all 12 keys, he means learn the five positions of all 12 major chord triads. So don't just learn one chord and then move it when you need to but learn all 12 chords.

I would suggest you learn them in this order:
C G D A E B F# C# Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F C

And practice changing between any of those chords and the chord next to it on the list quickly. Start by using positions for each chord that are close to each other on the fretboard so that you have to move your hand as little as possible. Then try changing between chords positions that are a bit further apart.

You probably won't get to the end of the list because by the time you get to halfway the rest will just fall into place.

EDIT: Very similar to what mdc was talking about. It is pointless to learn the five positions of the A major chord and then mentally have to move them up seven semitones to find E. You should be able to play an A major chord and then play an E major chord anywhere on the fretboard (especially in the same area of the fretboard) simply by knowing where the E major chord can be found anywhere on the fretboard. (Or any other chord for that matter)

By going in fourths (or fifths like I suggested) you set yourself up well to understand how keys relate one to the other and also since I IV V are the most common chords if you can find those chord relationships and change between them quickly anywhere on the fretboard you've won half the battle.

props mdc
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Apr 13, 2012,
#9
Basically, you need start learning theory from the very beginning to even understand what a "key" actually is...(Invalid img)
#10
Quote by 20Tigers
Do you have a link? What are "these chord positions" referring to?

My guess is that the chord position is referring to the five chord shapes that can be used to play any major chord in five places across the fretboard.

So A could be played using one of five different shapes each in it's own position across the fretboard. Those shapes being the following five chords

0 5 5 9 9
2 2 5 10 10
2 2 6 9 9
2 2 7 7 11
0 4 7 x 12
x 5 5 x x

This would be the tonic chord of a given "key".
So by saying play it in all 12 keys, he means learn the five positions of all 12 major chord triads. So don't just learn one chord and then move it when you need to but learn all 12 chords.

I would suggest you learn them in this order:
C G D A E B F# C# Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F C

And practice changing between any of those chords and the chord next to it on the list quickly. Start by using positions for each chord that are close to each other on the fretboard so that you have to move your hand as little as possible. Then try changing between chords positions that are a bit further apart.

You probably won't get to the end of the list because by the time you get to halfway the rest will just fall into place.

EDIT: Very similar to what mdc was talking about. It is pointless to learn the five positions of the A major chord and then mentally have to move them up seven semitones to find E. You should be able to play an A major chord and then play an E major chord anywhere on the fretboard (especially in the same area of the fretboard) simply by knowing where the E major chord can be found anywhere on the fretboard. (Or any other chord for that matter)

By going in fourths (or fifths like I suggested) you set yourself up well to understand how keys relate one to the other and also since I IV V are the most common chords if you can find those chord relationships and change between them quickly anywhere on the fretboard you've won half the battle.

props mdc

'spect
#12
Quote by liampje
They probably mean.
Know where what chord is in that position of the neck.

Which would be all of them, lol.
#13
Quote by mdc
Which would be all of them, lol.

Yes but I don't know what they mean with the keys.
I do know what a key is, but not in this context.
#14
Alright, so far I'm understanding learn which chords are which chords, in of for example learn Amaj on the 6th string (basic barre shape) and which notes are which, but than say move it to a Bmaj and know that B consists of B, D#, F# instead of thinking of it as Amaj still with A, C#, E and in plenty positions? (meaning learn to play and A like a C, or a D and so forth?

Here's the site http://www.cagedguitarsystem.net/

And thank all four of you, you've all been helpful.
#15
But doesn't this just boil down to making a priority of learning which chords are in which keys, which notes are in which chords, and what are the name of the notes on the fret board?

I think it's wonderful that somebody came up with.....(wait for it)....YET ANOTHER System for learning that.

When you come down to it, even simple folk styles using a capo require a knowledge of chords within a key. If you don't know what chords and key you're playing in, then you can't change the chord inversion to play along in another "key", yet still be in the same key as guitar one.

In other words, the chords that make up G major's I, IV, IV, become C Major's I, IV, V when the guitar is capo-ed at the 5th fret. To play in G major at the 5th fret, you would need to play the I, IV, V chords of D Major. In this example (Key of G Major @ 5th fret) "D major" (open) = G Major, "G Major" (open) = C major, and finally, "A Major" (open) = D Major.

Now all barre chords are movable, that's a given. But, open chords can be adapted to movable forms as well.Certain chord drill books place the chords in a key so that you only move the fingers the minimum amount necessary to effect the change

And I suppose if you want to call that putting the chords in a "cage", whatever floats your boat.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Apr 13, 2012,
#16
Quote by Captaincranky
But doesn't this just boil down to making a priority of learning which chords are in which keys, which notes are in which chords, and what are the name of the notes on the fret board?

I think it's wonderful that somebody came up with.....(wait for it)....YET ANOTHER System for learning that.

When you come down to it, even simple folk styles using a capo require a knowledge of chords within a key. If you don't know what chords and key you're playing in, then you can't change the chord inversion to play along in another "key", yet still be in the same key as guitar one.

In other words, the chords that make up G major's I, IV, IV, become C Major's I, IV, V when the guitar is capo-ed at the 5th fret. To play in G major at the 5th fret, you would need to play the I, IV, V chords of D Major. In this example (Key of G Major @ 5th fret) "D major" (open) = G Major, "G Major" (open) = C major, and finally, "A Major" (open) = D Major.

Now all barre chords are movable, that's a given. But, open chords can be adapted to movable forms as well.Certain chord drill books place the chords in a key so that you only move the fingers the minimum amount necessary to effect the change

And I suppose if you want to call that putting the chords in a "cage", whatever floats your boat.

Yeah you're right. But it's not called putting the chords in a "cage". The five open chord shapes are C A G E and D. And when you play each of those shapes using the same root note for each chord then you find that this is the order in whch they appear across the fretboard. I assume you get this so am not sure who it is you are referring to that calls it putting them in a "cage". It is an acronym not a metaphor.

Also when you say "yet another" system - this guy didn't come up with this system. It is one of the oldest and most common "systems" for teaching the guitar fretboard. If it is understood and taught properly it can be very effective and beneficial in teaching an in depth and complete understanding of the guitar fretboard.

to TS
the reason they use the word key, I assume, is that as you learn where all the C major shapes are across the fretboard this will form the tonic chord in C Major at five different overlapping positions across the fretboard. Once you memorize each chord shape and it's relevant chord tones the next step is to learn the rest of the notes that make up the C Major scale. Thus you will have learned the Major Scale in the key of C. If you have gone through and learned all 12 major chord positions across the fretboard then extending the chord to a full major scale will be easier and with a little time you will have mastered the major scale in all 12 keys across the entire fretboard.

One of the first steps in achieving this goal is to learn and understand the five major chord shapes of any given major chord across the fretboard. However it is likely the author had the end goal in mind and said to learn them in all 12 keys when instead he perhaps should have worded it "learn the five positions of each of the 12 major chords."
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Apr 13, 2012,
#17
Quote by 20Tigers
Yeah you're right. But it's not called putting the chords in a "cage". The five open chord shapes are C A G E and D. And when you play each of those shapes using the same root note for each chord then you find that this is the order in whch they appear across the fretboard. I assume you get this so am not sure who it is you are referring to that calls it putting them in a "cage". It is an acronym not a metaphor.
One thing here, I'm aware it's an acronym, but simply made the decision to use it as a pun.

Quote by 20Tigers
Also when you say "yet another" system - this guy didn't come up with this system. It is one of the oldest and most common "systems" for teaching the guitar fretboard. If it is understood and taught properly it can be very effective and beneficial in teaching an in depth and complete understanding of the guitar fretboard.
I guess part of my point here, is that this system existed before somebody decided to generate the "CAGED" name for it. A chord drill book I had almost 50 years ago, laid out a system where you could pretty much go through all the changes in a typical turn around, by only moving fingers, not changing position. Without the ag of drawing chord diagrams, I'm sure you'll see what I'm getting at by virtue of a simple explanation. Take D major at the second fret, voiced as a C major open chord. Then, you hold down the index finger and rotate around it to get Bm as a Barre at the second fret. The same thing would apply to the rest of the chords in the key. I'm thinking that the premise here is similar to the CAGED system. 'Jus can't remember what the heck the name of the book was.
#18
Sorry to bump this back up, but I'm still kinda confused on how to go about puting this in use. Should I learn C major, in all the shapes(C,A,G,E,D ones obviously) and know what note and degree(Hopefully degree means Root, 3rd, 5th, etc if not anyone mind giving me the correct term?) and then move on to learning the D chords like this and than E and so forth?
#19
You should learn every chord's basic shape in the C, A, G, E and D form.
Like C major, you should learn them in every shape.
Same for minor chords.
#20
Quote by srvfan2022
Sorry to bump this back up, but I'm still kinda confused on how to go about puting this in use.

You should apply it musically. iow, apply it to songs.