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#1
Does anybody know what the mode from the melodic minor scale that is just like an aeolian scale w/flat 2 is called?
Edit: I'm not 100% if its from the natural minor. When i had my guitar lesson this week, we where working on a a 2-5-1 in Cm (Dm7b5-G7-Cm7). My teacher said that i could play Cminor scale whith a flattend 2nd over the Dm7b5 chord. He said he didnt know the name of the scale, but he knew it was a mode of the melodic minor scale. Im not 110% sure that he said c natural minor, but i'm pretty sure. (He talks swedish and i'm norwegian, so it could be a misunderstanding perhaps?)
Last edited by Usernames sucks at Apr 14, 2012,
#5
Quote by AlanHB
A minor scale with a b2 accidental.

or with one word, Phrygian.
Si
#8
Quote by ouchies
Dorian has a major 6th

I think he's inferring what the guy may have meant, since he's talking about a mode of mel. minor. The 2nd mode is dorian b2...
#10
Quote by AlanHB
A minor scale with a b2 accidental.

Only this.
Or you can call it a phrygian SCALE.
Scales aren't to be confused with modes.
#12
Does the chord progression have a very strong use of the b2? Yes? It's probably modal [friggian, because I cannot be bothered to type it out]. Then again, don't listen to me. One of the MT "elite" guys will come in here and berate me.


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#15
Quote by 20Tigers
or with one word, Phrygian.


Call it what you want, it'll function the same.
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#16
Quote by AlanHB
Call it what you want, it'll function the same.

pretty much, yeah.
Si
#17
Phrygian, methinks. I personally like the name 'minor scale with a b2 accidental' though. :P

Although, me also thinks that Phrygian is major, not minor. But me think tank don't work right anymore.
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#19
Would it be a bad idea for a thread with a list of the modes and their respective notes? Or, at least, the respective methods for finding the notes?

Like something that could be stickied?

I just see modes here all the time. All it takes is an intro theory class or a decent book. Not that difficult.
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#20
^^^ There's a modes sticky on the top of this forum.
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#21
Quote by macashmack
Phrygian has a Minor 3rd so it is minor.

Oops. :/ I'm not so good on modes still.
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#23
Quote by liampje
What the hell are you on?
Phrygian scale isn't a phrygian mode.

Ok. So do you want to quit now, or do I really need to write a 500 word post about how wrong you are?
#24
Quote by chronowarp
Ok. So do you want to quit now, or do I really need to write a 500 word post about how wrong you are?

500 words, please.
But before you begin:
You say a phrygian scale equals a phrygian mode.
So technically, if I play in the third position in C major, I play E phrygian, no matter how major the progression is, it will be phrygian.
So actually C major equals every mode diatonic to that scale.
And no, this isn't what I think is true.
I just put myself in your perspective.
And if you are going to deny this:
Quote by liampje
What the hell are you on?
Phrygian scale isn't a phrygian mode.

And then you answered the quote I'm responding to right now.
#25
Quote by liampje
What the hell are you on?
Phrygian scale isn't a phrygian mode.

Uh, it depends.
#26
Quote by mdc
Uh, it depends.

A phrygian scale doesn't equal a phrygian mode.
A phrygian mode doesn't equal a phrygian scale.
It is only a phrygian mode when it does accord some rules.
And yes, music theory has rules, not as strict as rules in science or something.
#28
Quote by liampje
A phrygian scale doesn't equal a phrygian mode.
A phrygian mode doesn't equal a phrygian scale.
It is only a phrygian mode when it does accord some rules.
And yes, music theory has rules, not as strict as rules in science or something.

Right. So what's the big deal here, then?
#30
Traditionally, a mode is not a scale.

With modern applications, it most definitely is a scale.
#31
Quote by griffRG7321
Traditionally, a mode is not a scale.

With modern applications, it most definitely is a scale.

But still the modern applications can't be named E phrygian or G lydian.
Since they don't have an actual modal center.
Which makes it function like a tonal center.
#32
Edit: I'm not 100% if its from the natural minor. When i had my guitar lesson this week, we where working on a a 2-5-1 in Cm (Dm7b5-G7-Cm7). My teacher said that i could play Cminor scale whith a flattend 2nd over the Dm7b5 chord. He said he didnt know the name of the scale, but he knew it was a mode of the melodic minor scale. Im not 110% sure that he said c natural minor, but i'm pretty sure. (He talks swedish and i'm norwegian, so it could be a misunderstanding perhaps?)
#35
Quote by Usernames sucks
Edit: I'm not 100% if its from the natural minor. When i had my guitar lesson this week, we where working on a a 2-5-1 in Cm (Dm7b5-G7-Cm7). My teacher said that i could play Cminor scale whith a flattend 2nd over the Dm7b5 chord. He said he didnt know the name of the scale, but he knew it was a mode of the melodic minor scale. Im not 110% sure that he said c natural minor, but i'm pretty sure. (He talks swedish and i'm norwegian, so it could be a misunderstanding perhaps?)

Deffo. Confirm it with him next lesson, then come back to this thread then.
#36
Quote by liampje
500 words, please.
But before you begin:
You say a phrygian scale equals a phrygian mode.
So technically, if I play in the third position in C major, I play E phrygian, no matter how major the progression is, it will be phrygian.
So actually C major equals every mode diatonic to that scale.
And no, this isn't what I think is true.
I just put myself in your perspective.
And if you are going to deny this:

And then you answered the quote I'm responding to right now.


No.

If you play the third position of C major, then you're still playing C major, because what you arbitrarily choose as a starting note in a position on the guitar has nothing to do with what the scale is - that's decided by what sounds as the aural root.

Calling something a scale vs. a mode makes absolutely no difference in what it is, especially since the terms are more or less synonymous and only serve to describe where something is derived from.

A scale is a collection of notes.
A mode is any scale generated from within another scale, by shifting the tonic note.

Therefore: all modes are scales. Therefore, "phrygian scale" and "phyrgian mode" mean the exact same thing.
Last edited by chronowarp at Apr 14, 2012,
#37
Quote by Spaztikko
phrygian scale = spanish gypsy.

phrygian scale IS NOT phrygian mode.


I thought 'spanish gypsy scale' usually referred to the phrygian dominant mode.
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#38
Quote by Usernames sucks
Edit: I'm not 100% if its from the natural minor. When i had my guitar lesson this week, we where working on a a 2-5-1 in Cm (Dm7b5-G7-Cm7). My teacher said that i could play Cminor scale whith a flattend 2nd over the Dm7b5 chord.

He said he didnt know the name of the scale


Well that's probably because he didn't see it as relevant. It's not like the whole way you play is going to change when you designate a name to the use of this single accidental.

The progression is clearly in Cm. The question is "which accidentals do I employ to avoid a clash over the Dm7b5?

Well the notes in Dm7b5 are: D Ab C F

The notes in the key of Cm are: C D Eb F G Ab Bb C

Wait, what's that? All the notes are shared? That means that there isn't any need for an accidental at all!

Oh well lets shove a b2 in there anyway. Err, sounds nasty!


Edit: As for this looming "are modes scales?" argument, both answers are correct. You can call a mode a scale if you like. It's the harmonic context which will determine it's function. So lljampe is correct when he says a mode isn't simply a scale, because when the notes of a mode are played in a modal context, it is functioning as a mode.

However on the other hand you can say a mode is a scale because a scale is simply a set of notes, and you can derive this from a mode. So when you play the notes of a mode in a non-modal context (ie. in a key) it will function as the major or minor scale with accidentals. However Chronowarp will opt to just call it a "mode" for ease of expression.

Both approaches are fine.
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#40
wow are we still doing this whole modes thing, i thought we decided that we should just focus on keys and accidentals in tonal music because the reality of something fitting 100% into a scale or mode is just ludicrous and an unnecessary mental limit

go by your ear

at the end of the day, it's still gonna be marked no sharps/no flats with a b over the Bs. fancy names don't need to play a factor at all.
modes are a social construct
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