Beezerk
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#1
Any anyone suggest a good book with various scales I can learn from?
I'm in the UK so it needs to be available over here.
I've been learning them from the net but I want something I can reference to while I'm sat playing rather than have the laptop next to my head
GaryBillington
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#2
Try this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Everything-Guitar-Scales-Book/dp/1598695746/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334682387&sr=8-1

I've got it & find it a useful reference book. Alternatively I also have a software package called FretPro that can display pretty much every scale in existence.

Neither options include much of the theory behind the scales so you'd need to keep learning the actual theory elsewhere, but I find those two resources excellent as a purely visual aid.
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Junior#1
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#4
Forget about a book. Learn the notes of the fretboard and learn how chords are constructed. You can only memorize so many chords. If you memorize how to make chords on your own, the number of chords and variations and inversions etc. that you can learn is virtually endless.
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#5
... Do you really not own paper and a pen? Or a printer?
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krypticguitar87
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#6
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
... Do you really not own paper and a pen? Or a printer?

this I think that the paper and pen thing is a bit cheaper than a whole book.... the drug store by my house sells notebooks for $1 and you can get a cheap pen for like $0.50 so as soon as a book becomes more than $1.50 its al ready more than you needed to spend

also actually writing these things down will help you memorize the notes contained in each scale way better than printing something out or buying a book about it.
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Beezerk
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#7
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
... Do you really not own paper and a pen? Or a printer?


Yes mate but I aint a cheap skate and there are that many scales I aint going to be writing writing or printing them all off.
krypticguitar87
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#8
Quote by Beezerk
Yes mate but I aint a cheap skate and there are that many scales I aint going to be writing writing or printing them all off.

there really aren't that many scales man.... unless you are looking for something that says "C major = C D E F G A B" or just shows you where the notes are in tab form.....

basically as I said before it is much better to write them down, it helps you to remember them so when someone says "I'm using a C major scale" you know what they are talking about........
Quote by Dirk Gently
Some pieces are only meant to be played by people with six fingers on their fretting hand. Sorry.
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#9
Quote by krypticguitar87
there really aren't that many scales man.... unless you are looking for something that says "C major = C D E F G A B" or just shows you where the notes are in tab form.....

basically as I said before it is much better to write them down, it helps you to remember them so when someone says "I'm using a C major scale" you know what they are talking about........

Different people work in different ways. What works for you may not work for someone else.

I never claim to be a great guitarist, but I know the theory behind the scales I use and I know my way around the fretboard, I still find it useful to have something visual to refer to occasionally - especially when songwriting. When coming up with new ideas I regularly use my book & the fretpro app to visualise how I'll play the riffs etc before I even pick up my guitar.

It works for me, and if it works for TS then a book like the one I suggested could potentially be a good investment - but only if the theory etc behind the scales is learnt as well.
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krypticguitar87
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#10
Quote by GaryBillington
Different people work in different ways. What works for you may not work for someone else.

I never claim to be a great guitarist, but I know the theory behind the scales I use and I know my way around the fretboard, I still find it useful to have something visual to refer to occasionally - especially when songwriting. When coming up with new ideas I regularly use my book & the fretpro app to visualise how I'll play the riffs etc before I even pick up my guitar.

It works for me, and if it works for TS then a book like the one I suggested could potentially be a good investment - but only if the theory etc behind the scales is learnt as well.

well I've found from, teaching people that they learn scales faster by doing it rather than reading it.....

also if TS were to write them down he/she can save the pages and still have the visuales...
Quote by Dirk Gently
Some pieces are only meant to be played by people with six fingers on their fretting hand. Sorry.
GaryBillington
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#11
Quote by krypticguitar87
well I've found from, teaching people that they learn scales faster by doing it rather than reading it.....

also if TS were to write them down he/she can save the pages and still have the visuales...

I'm not disagreeing, just putting forward an alternative point of view.

Tools like books, apps etc are useful if used properly, but if you become dependent on them because you don't learn the theory behind what you're doing then they become a hindrance.
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Beezerk
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#12
Quote by krypticguitar87
well I've found from, teaching people that they learn scales faster by doing it rather than reading it.....

also if TS were to write them down he/she can save the pages and still have the visuales...



But I need to read how the scales look/work before I play them though, I can't just make it up out of thin air lol.
krypticguitar87
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#13
but you did say "I've been learning them from the net but I want something I can reference to while I'm sat playing rather than have the laptop next to my head" which makes me think that you know where to find scales you just want to have a book.

and no you can't just make it up if you want a real working knowledge of scales, but you can learn them from places like UG and musictheory.net and work out what notes are in each major and minor scale. trust me on this, if you take the time to make your own reference material you will learn it a bit better becaue it kind of forces you to see connections.

if you need help, there are plenty of people who are willing to help here on UG.

also I'm not sure what you mean by how scales look, do you mean their shape on the fretboard?

if that is what you are looking for, you will find it much more useful to learn the notes on the fretboard. then just learn what notes are in each scale and bam you can now play any scale without learning the 'shape'. if this is not what you meant, then I would like to know so I can help you further.

also GaryBillington, I understand that you are pointing out a different approach, but in reality I'm taking the same approach the only difference is that instead of telling him to go and buy a resource to use later, I'm simply telling him to make his own resource (which forces him to learn the theory along the way). same concept just a different execution, which I have found works better.

however I suppose if he already knew the theory, I might say to get a book, but if he already knew the theory then why would he ask for a book? He's be able to handle a book thats slightly inaccurate (meaning he would probably notice it and fix the problem), or he could easily go to a book store and find one, flip through it and then see if thats what he really needs... but in all honesty I'd still probably tell him to make one, it's easy enough.
Quote by Dirk Gently
Some pieces are only meant to be played by people with six fingers on their fretting hand. Sorry.
Beezerk
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#14
Quote by krypticguitar87


also I'm not sure what you mean by how scales look, do you mean their shape on the fretboard?

.


Yes that's exactly what I meant, excellent answer by the way.
So do you suggest I get comfortable with knowing the notes on the fretboard before learning scales?
Also, do the notes transpose up and down the neck when you change tuning?
So for instance if I play tuned to D rather than E all the notes in a scale would be played two frets further up the neck or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Kin' minefield all this stuff lol.
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#15
Quote by Beezerk
Yes mate but I aint a cheap skate and there are that many scales I aint going to be writing writing or printing them all off.


1 - What's wrong with being a cheap skate? You could be spending the money on anything else?

2 - There are 2 scales you actually need to know, maybe 4 if you're pushing it. Really if you want to go any further in to theory than that you'll need to have a much better understanding of how they work than a diagram from a book will give you.

The scales you need:

Major
Minor
maybe harmonic minor
maybe melodic minor.

If writing all of those out takes more than 20 minutes and one sheet of A4 paper you are doing something wrong.
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Beezerk
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#17
Again, I am humbled by the helpful replies, thanks.
GaryBillington
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#19
Quote by Killsocket
Nice. Bookmarked.

Zaphod, when you said the ones to learn, do you mean pentatonic major and minor?

It seems like there is just a "major" scale?

Yes, there is just a major scale and minor scale. They consist of 7 notes. For the sake of keeping it basic, the pentatonic major and pentatonic minor scales are just ways to remember the most commonly used intervals within the full major and minor scales.

As soon as you start learning some theory, you will realise what I mean.
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Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#20
Quote by Killsocket
Nice. Bookmarked.

Zaphod, when you said the ones to learn, do you mean pentatonic major and minor?

It seems like there is just a "major" scale?


GaryBillington already covered it but just so we're absolutely clear on this:

The major scale contains the intervals 1234567, the pentatonic major contains these: 12346. The minor scale: 12b345b6b7, and the minor pentatonic: 1b345b7.

Obviously from there you can see that the pentatonics are just the standard diatonic scales but with some tones missed out. Really all the pentatonics are missing are the tones that are 'risky', that is the ones that are the most dissonant when played over most standard chord progressions.

If you can learn the major and minor scales well then you don't need to learn the pentatonics because they're all contained within the standard scales.

Same applies to almost any other scale as well: if you learn the two most basic scales (major and minor) and intervals well then any 'weird' sound that you might need just becomes an alteration of those scales. Learning arpeggios properly also extends this idea to arpeggio based lead playing (chord tones and such) and chords themselves.

Once you know the basics really well then everything else is an organic evolution from there.
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progmtlr
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#21
I recommend learning just a few scales for now...then focusing on musical application with those scales. At this point you don't need to learn a bunch of extra material that you won't even use
krypticguitar87
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#23
Quote by Beezerk
Yes that's exactly what I meant, excellent answer by the way.
So do you suggest I get comfortable with knowing the notes on the fretboard before learning scales?
Also, do the notes transpose up and down the neck when you change tuning?
So for instance if I play tuned to D rather than E all the notes in a scale would be played two frets further up the neck or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Kin' minefield all this stuff lol.

well I say to learn the scales on paper. I usually have my students make a chart of sorts, something like:


Major Scales
WWHWWWH

C Major
C D E F G A B C

G Major
G....(well I'm not going to give you all the answers 

and while they are doing that they are learning where notes are on the fretboard as part of their guitar work.

also you are correct about the notes changing position in alternate tunings, but once you learn the notes in standard relearning it becomes pretty easy.

Well good luck and I hope this post helped!
Quote by Dirk Gently
Some pieces are only meant to be played by people with six fingers on their fretting hand. Sorry.
Beezerk
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Join date: Apr 2010
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#24
Quote by krypticguitar87
well I say to learn the scales on paper. I usually have my students make a chart of sorts, something like:


Major Scales
WWHWWWH

C Major
C D E F G A B C

G Major
G....(well I'm not going to give you all the answers

and while they are doing that they are learning where notes are on the fretboard as part of their guitar work.

also you are correct about the notes changing position in alternate tunings, but once you learn the notes in standard relearning it becomes pretty easy.

Well good luck and I hope this post helped!


Thanks mate, time to get scribbling.

Btw WWHWWWH is that whole and half notes or maybe 2 and 1 frets?
Hydra150
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#25
Im too tired to read this thread but I assume that someone has already pointed out how pointless a book of scales is.
+1 to whoever has expressed that.
Scales are just a series of notes - learn the notea pf the fretboard, how to construct the major scale (to aid your understanding of stuff like diatonic harmony and other basic theory) and a few forms of the maj/min pentatonic scales to help you bust out some cliche rock licks.
The rest is up to your ears and your imagination, a book filled with arbitrary note sequences and fingerings will not do you much good.
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krypticguitar87
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#26
Quote by Beezerk
Thanks mate, time to get scribbling.

Btw WWHWWWH is that whole and half notes or maybe 2 and 1 frets?


it's W=whole step and H=half step

so with your musical alphabet:
C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A A#/Bb B C

movement from each one to the next is a half step, so a whole step is from C to D and a half step is from C to C#/Db.
Quote by Dirk Gently
Some pieces are only meant to be played by people with six fingers on their fretting hand. Sorry.
Slashiepie
Banged
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#27
+1 on **** the book method.

1) learn the chromatic scale
2) learn the formula for forming the major scale (1 2 34 5 6 7) (alt: w-w-h -w- w-w-h)
3) form your own "scales"
4) prcatice away for years.
Beezerk
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#28
Quote by krypticguitar87
it's W=whole step and H=half step

so with your musical alphabet:
C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A A#/Bb B C

movement from each one to the next is a half step, so a whole step is from C to D and a half step is from C to C#/Db.



Yes sorry, that's what I meant lol.
GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
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#29
As the thread goes on it does seem like my original recommendations (which are only useful as a visual reference) is definitely not what is needed here.

TS - you need to put more effort into learning more about music theory. Some of the information in this thread tells you a few of the answers, but I'm definitely getting the impression that you don't actually know enough to be asking the right questions yet.

You said in the original post that you've been learning from the internet, but I'd say you could use a proper music teacher to help you through all this. At the very least you need to be using a book/website that can take you through music theory starting with the absolute basics and working your way up to where you want to be.
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Beezerk
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#30
I'm actually a drummer who's taken up guitar over the last year, just messing around really but I want to progress instead of just plodding along with power chords etc.
It's damn hard, but not as hard as drumming
Hydra150
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#31
Read these articles, TS.
Your'e welcome.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
MatthiasYoung
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2011
46 IQ
#32
Regardless of the ideology of reading scales or writing them to play, going back to the original question, one of my favorite scale books is The Guitarist's Scale Book, by Peter Vogl. I really like the layout of standard notation, tablature, and fretboard diagrams.

The Guitarist's Scale Book