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#41


They get way more hate than they deserve.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#42
Gibson Really? not even going to comment.

I really liked old Aria guitars. i have a Aria Pro ZZ that plays great and a classical guitar that sounds and plays better than a lot of guitars out there.
#43
Quote by Tom 1.0


They get way more hate than they deserve.



Now I'm rather curious. Would you guys consider them under-appreciated by everybody?


Most of the people I know IRL that play guitar don't go on/frequent forums like I do and all they talk about are Gibsons and that's all they buy/want to buy. From classmates to my father's friends and from faded series guitars all the way up to the Custom Shop guitars hanging on the wall at Lauzon. It never fails. In fact, I'm sure a few of them think I'm stupid for selling mine.


In that sense, I don't see them being underrated at all.


On the other hand... When I'm on a forum I find it's the complete opposite. People shit on everything they do. They get jumped on pretty hard. In that case, I can see them being quite underrated.


Actually I don't know where I'm going with this
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#44
IME, thee are a lot of people who downplay Gibson's quality...and who have had little experience with them.

I used to wonder why people paid $1M/carat for red diamonds when rubies were so much cheaper. Then I held one in my hands... Educational.. While I still may not necessarily agree with the price, I now realize how VERY different they look from even top-notch rubies.

Ditto Gibsons. There is just something different about them from all of their clones that, until one is in your hands, you just won't know.

Mojo? Pure power of suggestion? Actual differences? I can't say- I'd have to do a blindfold test, and that ain't happening any time soon.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#47
i wonder if the explorer is as good as people say or just as overrated as the LP
#48
i personally dont think Gibson is overrated. I think maybe a little overpriced but i think the same think about PRS. There are a lot of great Gibson's out there but now a days there are so many options out there that its getting hard for Gibson to keep up. I have a Explorer and i love it. i had to change the pickups but now it sound and plays great. but, $1400 for the guitar and $200 in pickups $100 for install, now your looking at $1700. There are a lot of guitars out there that are probably just as good for less.
#49
Quote by MrFlibble
Just because people use them does not mean they can't be underrated.

People, pay attention. Underrated =/= not popular. Similarly, overrated =/= popular. What people think of something, and how much they use it, often have little to do with each other.

A few years ago I would have agreed, but these days there's no such thing as 'high-end' Epiphones. The Elitist line was stopped other than one archtop model and the Elite guitars don't see the light of day outside of Japan.



I apologize sincerely, but do you like ANYTHING? Any time I see you, you're shitting on something.

On topic: Old Kramers, Music Man guitars, Peavey guitars, and Fernandes.

On the topic of Gibson receiving a lot of hate, I believe it's because the brand name is so BIG and dominant in the guitar industry (it's one of the first brands MOST people see), that when someone finds a flaw or something they don't like, their minds EXPLODE. "Oh, Big Name Gibson made an uhoh?!?! BLASPHEMY!!! I HATE IT. OVERPRICED!"

Just my 2 cents.
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#50
Quote by jeleopard
I apologize sincerely, but do you like ANYTHING? Any time I see you, you're shitting on something.

On topic: Old Kramers, Music Man guitars, Peavey guitars, and Fernandes.

On the topic of Gibson receiving a lot of hate, I believe it's because the brand name is so BIG and dominant in the guitar industry (it's one of the first brands MOST people see), that when someone finds a flaw or something they don't like, their minds EXPLODE. "Oh, Big Name Gibson made an uhoh?!?! BLASPHEMY!!! I HATE IT. OVERPRICED!"

Just my 2 cents.



You must not see him much. I don't think he shits on many things in particular.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#51
I'm pretty much the only person on here who ever has anything positive to say about Line 6 products, DigiTech stompboxes, active pickups for anything other than metal, Creamery pickups (in fact I've pretty much sucked them off in every thread), EB strings and so on. If I do shit on anything then I would suggest I shit on things equally. I certainly can't think of any product that I have any particularly strong feelings against, other than perhaps Ibanez guitars and Bare Knuckle pickups, though unlike many people at least I had the good grace to try both out several times before writing them off, and I've always made it clear that I don't like either brand simply as they do not fit in with my tastes and I don't believe I've ever said there is anything technically, objectively wrong about either of them (other than Edge 3s being a bit crap, of course).

I mean, I'm listening to Aqua right now. Aqua! You can't be a mean Mr. Grinch with Back To The 80s in your ears.
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Last edited by MrFlibble at Jun 12, 2012,
#52
Quote by socalguitar
i personally dont think Gibson is overrated. I think maybe a little overpriced but i think the same think about PRS. There are a lot of great Gibson's out there but now a days there are so many options out there that its getting hard for Gibson to keep up. I have a Explorer and i love it. i had to change the pickups but now it sound and plays great. but, $1400 for the guitar and $200 in pickups $100 for install, now your looking at $1700. There are a lot of guitars out there that are probably just as good for less.


Nah bro, PRS guitars are well worth the money

And IMO theres nothing actually wrong with the guitars gibson pumps out for the most part. Its just that usually you can get just aa awesome of a guitar for a little less money

For example, a new Gibson LP custom costs around 4300$ rpund here. Theyre deff great guitars but a brand new Custom 24 is 3500$. This doesnt mean the LP is bad, Id sau they are pretty much on the same level, its just preference and an 800$ difference
Last edited by Seanthesheep at Jun 12, 2012,
#53
Quote by Seanthesheep
Nah bro, PRS guitars are well worth the money

And IMO theres nothing actually wrong with the guitars gibson pumps out for the most part. Its just that usually you can get just aa awesome of a guitar for a little less money

For example, a new Gibson LP custom costs around 4300$ rpund here. Theyre deff great guitars but a brand new Custom 24 is 3500$. This doesnt mean the LP is bad, Id sau they are pretty much on the same level, its just preference and an 800$ difference
You're forgetting a key point here though. The PRS Custom 24 is a production guitar; the Gibson LP Custom is a Custom Shop guitar. A Gibson LP Custom does not equate to a PRS Custom 24, it equates to a PRS Private Stock (which are something crazy like US$10,000, aren't they?). A Custom 24 equates to a Gibson LP Standard or Traditional, which are what, US$2,000 or so?

When the LP Customs were production guitars, a few years back, they were around the US$3,000 mark, I believe.
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#55
^Unless you live outside the US, in which case they cost more than any other custom shop bar ESP

But yeah, Carvin do great work. I've not had the chance to play many, but the ones I have played have been as close to objectively flawless as you could reasonably ask. A 25" neck-through Tele from them has been on my buy list for quite a while.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
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#56
I've heard some people complain about Carvin's pickups- no owners, mind you- but everything else about the quality of their guitars is about as good as it gets.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#57
Washburn!!
Quality wise they usually piss on almost anything in their price range, yet people don't seem to be attracted to them. Blame the lack of interesting endorsees.

Also Mayones. They might not be 'underrated', but they deserve more attention imo. A Mayones is easily on par with the MIJ ESP's, if not better (at least my mayones beats all 3 of my ESP's. If only I knew this sooner).
Hufschmid
Blackat
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Engl
#58
Japan guitars are underrated actually. Many people loves Ibanez but it still doesn't get enough credit. I think Ibanez deserves as much credit as Gibson. Btw japanese jacksons, fujigen, blade are really underrated guitars.
#59
Quote by MrFlibble
I'm pretty much the only person on here who ever has anything positive to say about Line 6 products.

The clean channel on the spider 4's isn't that bad, that's about it though.
"When the power of love over comes the love of power the world will know peace."
~Jimi Hendrix
#60
Quote by cemges
Japan guitars are underrated actually. Many people loves Ibanez but it still doesn't get enough credit. I think Ibanez deserves as much credit as Gibson. Btw japanese jacksons, fujigen, blade are really underrated guitars.

Japanese guitars have a very good reputation all over the world, so they're not underrated imo. In fact, I'd even say Ibanez in particular gets overrated. Blame too many young and ignorant Ibanez metal bedroom players.
Hufschmid
Blackat
Washburn USA Custom Shop
PRS
Mayones
Orange
Diezel
Engl
Last edited by LP_CL at Jun 12, 2012,
#61
I think the ibanez art series are overlooked at times, they are quite amazing guitars for the price!
"When the power of love over comes the love of power the world will know peace."
~Jimi Hendrix
#62
Quote by LP_CL
Japanese guitars have a very good reputation all over the world, so they're not underrated imo. In fact, I'd even say Ibanez in particular gets overrated. Blame too many young and ignorant Ibanez metal bedroom players.


It would be a more healthy conversation if we classed brands and series. Low end Ibanez get's too much reputation? Well I guess they are really cost effective still. Ibanez has better wood and craftmanship on low ends with bad quality hardware, LTD has better hardware and moderate wood, with bad craftmanship. PRS se has everything in moderate but better in wood. Epiphone has moderate hardware and pickups, bad craftmanship, actually bad wood, but good in design and concept. Etc. I think low end Ibanez get's what it deserves. Mid range Ibanez is also good, but understimated in my country a little. And well, Ibanez's Jcustom and signatures doesn't get what it deserves. I think it's made with more precision then Gibson Custom, and well as the wood selection ( I mean differnce between mahogany of gibson and Ibanez) Ibanez's are equal.
#63
Quote by cemges
It would be a more healthy conversation if we classed brands and series. Low end Ibanez get's too much reputation? Well I guess they are really cost effective still. Ibanez has better wood and craftmanship on low ends with bad quality hardware, LTD has better hardware and moderate wood, with bad craftmanship. PRS se has everything in moderate but better in wood. Epiphone has moderate hardware and pickups, bad craftmanship, actually bad wood, but good in design and concept. Etc. I think low end Ibanez get's what it deserves. Mid range Ibanez is also good, but understimated in my country a little. And well, Ibanez's Jcustom and signatures doesn't get what it deserves. I think it's made with more precision then Gibson Custom, and well as the wood selection ( I mean differnce between mahogany of gibson and Ibanez) Ibanez's are equal.

What a bunch of self invented bull crap

Ibanez MIJ quality has gone down for a while now. They just aren't what they were in the 80's and 90's. They used to be better than other guitars in their price range, but now they can't put that difference down anymore. Same with J-Customs: they have dropped in quality due to higher quantity demands.

Stop spreading bullshit statements as truths. This is already the second time I spot you spreading nonsense. (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1536125&page=2&pp=20)
Hufschmid
Blackat
Washburn USA Custom Shop
PRS
Mayones
Orange
Diezel
Engl
Last edited by LP_CL at Jun 12, 2012,
#64
Quote by LP_CL
What a bunch of self invented bull crap

Ibanez MIJ quality has gone down for a while now. They just aren't what they were in the 80's and 90's. They used to be better than other guitars in their price range, but now they can't put that difference down anymore. Same with J-Customs: they have dropped in quality due to higher quantity demands.

Stop spreading bullshit statements as truths. This is already the second time I spot you spreading nonsense. (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1536125&page=2&pp=20)


I'm curious, what makes your opinion any more valid than his?

I don't see any actual factual data in either post...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#65
Quote by Arby911
I'm curious, what makes your opinion any more valid than his?

I don't see any actual factual data in either post...

I have played many old and new Ibanez'es. These were my conclusions, and people who also have owned and played old and new Ibanez'es concur. And his comparison about the woods/craftmanship being used on PRS SE, LTD, Ibanez, epiphone is just self invented.
Hufschmid
Blackat
Washburn USA Custom Shop
PRS
Mayones
Orange
Diezel
Engl
#66
LP_CL is bang on, the newer Prestige guitars are rapidly going down hill same for the current range of J Customs.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#67
Quote by LP_CL
I have played many old and new Ibanez'es. These were my conclusions, and people who also have owned and played old and new Ibanez'es concur. And his comparison about the woods/craftmanship being used on PRS SE, LTD, Ibanez, epiphone is just self invented.


Ok, so you have an opinion based on your personal experience, I get that.

How do you/we know he's making shit up?

How do we know you're not? (Note that I'm NOT saying you are, just making a point.)

My thought is simply this, his opinion is his opinion, no more and no less. We can disagree without being disagreeable (although I'm not always very good at it...).




Quote by Tom 1.0
LP_CL is bang on, the newer Prestige guitars are rapidly going down hill same for the current range of J Customs.


Why do you think that is? One presumes their QC hasn't changed?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#68
I really think active EMGs are underrated, for non-metal. They have their place in metal and there are a lot of people who agree (disagree too, I know, but just accept it ), but a lot of people go "OMFG NO CLEANS, NOOB" instantly.

Well, from my experience with a 81/85 set on my explorer, I can say that you can get nice cleans out of it (not the great-passive-pickups-that-aren't-geared-towards-metal-so-much-tone of other brands), but they are nice enough. Just learn to turn down your volume on the guitar a bit.

I can do really nice prog rock sounds for example, just a tiny bit of fuzz when I pick a bit harder with some delay and chorus and all that jazz, decent cleans, a moderate rock overdrive all the way to the full on distortion. It's much more versatile than it looks at first, although yes, it's biggest strength is distortion and metal.
Bobby: Luckily I'd gone upstairs to listen to her piss so I heard her shout for me to help
#69
Quote by LP_CL
What a bunch of self invented bull crap

Ibanez MIJ quality has gone down for a while now. They just aren't what they were in the 80's and 90's. They used to be better than other guitars in their price range, but now they can't put that difference down anymore. Same with J-Customs: they have dropped in quality due to higher quantity demands.

Stop spreading bullshit statements as truths. This is already the second time I spot you spreading nonsense. (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1536125&page=2&pp=20)


It's not self invented bull crap, I would like to call it opinion. No they are not facts, they are all my opinion. Btw a J Custom is really damn cost effective if you ask me. And you can't tell me that USA customs didn't drop in quality equally. Btw I talk of course about the guitars I 've played with only.
And I don't talk about old models.
Last edited by cemges at Jun 12, 2012,
#70
Quote by Arby911


Why do you think that is? One presumes their QC hasn't changed?



They just dont feel the same, they seem to be lacking the consistency of Ibanez of old. I also think the fact they are now almost 40-50% more expensive than they used to be means that they needed to bring the standards into line with the increase. The maple they have also been using just seems rather cheap and nasty, as do the quality of fretboards.

It seems care and attention seems to have been replaced with a need to fill quotas and meet targets, not make the best guitars possible.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#71
Quote by Tom 1.0
They just dont feel the same, they seem to be lacking the consistency of Ibanez of old. I also think the fact they are now almost 40-50% more expensive than they used to be means that they needed to bring the standards into line with the increase. The maple they have also been using just seems rather cheap and nasty, as do the quality of fretboards.

It seems care and attention seems to have been replaced with a need to fill quotas and meet targets, not make the best guitars possible.


Fair enough, seems that perhaps their QC processes HAVE changed.

That's unfortunate, since a J Custom is one of the few guitars I've honestly considered spending serious coin on recently...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#72
Buy one, just get an older one mate.

The one I had from the very first run is up there still with one of the best guitars I have ever played.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#73
Quote by JakePlaysGuitar
The clean channel on the spider 4's isn't that bad, that's about it though.
This is the problem they face. When people read 'Line 6', they see 'Spider'. There's more (much more) to the company than that, but so far no marketing campaign they've tried has succeeded in changing their image as 'that company that makes the shitty Spider amps'. I suppose they don't need to change that image when the Spider line sells so well and makes them boatloads of money, but they have a lot of other, much better products that deserve recognition.

Quote by dannyalcatraz
I've heard some people complain about Carvin's pickups- no owners, mind you- but everything else about the quality of their guitars is about as good as it gets.
True, I've heard lots of bad things about their pickups. Though every Carvin I've gotten my hands on had already had the pickups replaced. I suppose that in itself might tell you something about the quality of Carvin's pickups. It's odd, since Carvin started out as a pickup manufacturer. I highly suspect that their pickups are not bad, they're likely just very generic and unsuitable for whatever the particular owner wants.


Quote by LP_CL
Washburn!!
Quality wise they usually piss on almost anything in their price range, yet people don't seem to be attracted to them. Blame the lack of interesting endorsees.

Also Mayones. They might not be 'underrated', but they deserve more attention imo. A Mayones is easily on par with the MIJ ESP's, if not better (at least my mayones beats all 3 of my ESP's. If only I knew this sooner).
Yes and yes. Even my dirt cheap MIK Washburn is very nice and I more or less fill my pants every time I get to play a Mayones. I'm still kicking myself for cancelling the order I had with them (needs must, bills to pay, etc). I played a Mayones Regius 7 a year or two ago that was, at least for me and what I look for in a guitar, the most perfect instrument I've ever found. It helps that every instrument they make, in any finish, is a work of art.
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#75
I highly suspect that their pickups are not bad, they're likely just very generic and unsuitable for whatever the particular owner wants.


That's my guess as well.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#76
I think squiers. Yes, the affinnity and bullet are bad, but the classic vibe serries is fairly good
#77
Quote by George Juggles
I think squiers. Yes, the affinnity and bullet are bad, but the classic vibe serries is fairly good


Don't forget the Vintage Modified series, I own one and I love mine to pieces. May have got a gem though. They didn't have any others in the shop.
Bass Gear:

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Ashdown CTM 100
#78
This is the problem they face. When people read 'Line 6', they see 'Spider'. There's more (much more) to the company than that, but so far no marketing campaign they've tried has succeeded in changing their image as 'that company that makes the shitty Spider amps'. I suppose they don't need to change that image when the Spider line sells so well and makes them boatloads of money, but they have a lot of other, much better products that deserve recognition.


They're like a First Act guitars, in that sense. The players who get something from FA's custom shop can't say enough good things about them, but most of the world knows them for $99 starters that are the guitar equivalent of the Trabant.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#80
Quote by MrFlibble
This is the problem they face. When people read 'Line 6', they see 'Spider'. There's more (much more) to the company than that, but so far no marketing campaign they've tried has succeeded in changing their image as 'that company that makes the shitty Spider amps'. I suppose they don't need to change that image when the Spider line sells so well and makes them boatloads of money, but they have a lot of other, much better products that deserve recognition.


I think with the release of the Pod HD series that they've really picked the ball up and I can see myself getting on in the near future. I personally 2 or 3 years ago never would of had a look at the line 6 stuff but ever since I was informed of the Pod HD my outlook on them have changed and I'm sure a few others have as well.