Poll: Scottish Independence
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View poll results: Scottish Independence
I'm from America and I say yes
22 14%
I'm from America and I say no
6 4%
I'm from America and I don't care/know
28 18%
I'm from Europe and I say yes
8 5%
I'm from Europe and I say no
8 5%
I'm from Europe and I don't care
9 6%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say yes
23 15%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say no
24 16%
I'm from the UK specifically and I don't care
24 16%
Voters: 152.
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#41
If we go we're gonna have a bad time. Honestly Alex Salmond wants to make us join the euro even though we'd probably collapse in 6 months. And he wants to give the vote to teenagers which is the worst decision he could make because there's a lot of racist patriotic dumbasses who want independence when they cant even spell it. I also don't want the embarrassment of asking to join the UK again when we start fall apart.
#42
There's a lot of bullshit in this thread.

First off - Scotland gives about the same to the UK as what it takes - some economists say we get slightly more, some say we get slightly less (it's very hard to get an unbiased view). But since these experts can't agree, I think it's safe to assume that we get more or less the same as we put in.

A lot of this is based off oil, which of course isn't infinite. There should, however, be enough to last for a few decades and I'm pretty sure that's what Salmond will use to get us through the first years of independence, if it happens. One major factor Scotland has in its favour is very large natural resources of renewable energy (wind, tidal, wave. Fuck all solar because the sun hates Scotland and we see it about 3 days a year) - if Salmond etc. are sensible we'll invest heavily in this in the coming years (independence or not). We could realistically end up in a situation where we produce way more energy than we use, which is obviously a great thing for an economy.

Add to all this that Scotland is already a highly developed country with many industries, I think it's pretty likely that we could survive as an independent country. The question of should we be independent is more complex, really.

There is definitely an element of anti-Englishness for no other reason than 'fuck them English bastards'. There's also the fact that we are quite different politically - the Tories 'won' the last election, we have a Tory PM, yet they only got one seat in Scotland. So we have a Prime Minister that practically nobody in the country voted for, which is a decent argument for independence.


There's a lot more to it, obviously, but hopefully that is in some way interesting for anyone interested in this
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#43
Quote by slapsymcdougal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990
FWIW, the public sector also spends more per capita in London and in Northern Ireland than it does in Scotland.


Unfair comparison. In London, we're, at least twice as good as your average human. In Scotland, they're barely worth half a person. Do the numbers account for that?
#44
What EXACTLY would that accomplish?

No developed country is truly independent ever since global economy started functioning.
#45
Quote by gabcd86
Unfair comparison. In London, we're, at least twice as good as your average human. In Scotland, they're barely worth half a person. Do the numbers account for that?

Don't judge us all by Glasgwegian standards
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#46
I think there's some good points for independence. Like the nuclear shit that's up here, being rid of that would be splendid.
Quote by ErikLensherr
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He made them an offer they couldn't understand.
#47
Quote by steve_muse
I think there's some good points for independence. Like the nuclear shit that's up here, being rid of that would be splendid.

Unless you live around Garelochhead or Helensborough, because that'll take around 3000 jobs out of the local economy.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#48
Quote by Random88
So we have a Prime Minister that practically nobody in the country voted for, which is a decent argument for independence.



If that's the case, then the US would be split into 50 different countries.
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#49
Quote by Random88
There is definitely an element of anti-Englishness for no other reason than 'fuck them English bastards'. There's also the fact that we are quite different politically - the Tories 'won' the last election, we have a Tory PM, yet they only got one seat in Scotland. So we have a Prime Minister that practically nobody in the country voted for, which is a decent argument for independence.


There's a lot more to it, obviously, but hopefully that is in some way interesting for anyone interested in this
So, what you're saying is...some people in Scotland would rather you be Canada, all sucking on England's teat still while having your own PM? (I dare a Canadian to tell me that Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth don't suck on England's teat. I will end you!) You all have your own Parliament, which basically passes laws for Scotland alone. Who gives a fuck?

Quote by Aralingh
What EXACTLY would that accomplish?

No developed country is truly independent ever since global economy started functioning.

LOLWAT?! Apparently, the ability to pass your own laws means no one is truly independent. Gtfo here, mang!
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 10, 2012,
#50
Quote by gabcd86
Unfair comparison. In London, we're, at least twice as good as your average human. In Scotland, they're barely worth half a person. Do the numbers account for that?

Don't judge them all on Edinburgh people standards.
#51
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
So, what you're saying is...some people in Scotland would rather you be Canada, all sucking on England's teat still while having your own PM? (I dare a Canadian to tell me that Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth don't suck on England's teat. I will end you!) You all have your own Parliament, which basically passes laws for Scotland alone. Who gives a fuck?

As things stand, it's pretty much a kiddy parliament, which gets to decide how to spend it's pocket money, and doesn't get a say on a large number of subjects.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#52
Quote by StewieSwan
If that's the case, then the US would be split into 50 different countries.

I can see your point in that it's part of living in a democracy that not everyone gets their way, but you've oversimplified it - you didn't take into account the huge historical/cultural element. Scotland has a much bigger social/cultural identity than most, if not all, the US states, so it's there's a bigger resentment to having a PM nobody voted for.

Quote by crazysam23_Atax
So, what you're saying is...some people in Scotland would rather you be Canada, all sucking on England's teat still while having your own PM? (I dare a Canadian to tell me that Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth don't suck on England's teat. I will end you!) You all have your own Parliament, which basically passes laws for Scotland alone. Who gives a fuck?

No - what I'm saying is that people want to be completely independant, with a PM chosen by and for the people of Scotland. And there are many things the Scottish Parliament can't do - although one option that keeps getting mentioned is so called 'devo-max, which would give us vastly increased political powers, but still being in the Union.


I still haven't made my mind up which way to vote - just trying to show some of the arguments I hear
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Last edited by Random88 at Aug 10, 2012,
#53
I was 'let's the Scot's decide' until it's become pretty obvious that leading, campaigning Unionists are nasty sophists who should leave these matters almost entirely to the Scottish. Now I want the Scots to vote for independence, mostly out of spite against the unionists.
Quote by Aralingh
What EXACTLY would that accomplish?

No developed country is truly independent ever since global economy started functioning.

The Scottish on the whole are predominately around the centre-left (roughly), whilst England, who have the most MPs in the Houses of Parliament, and take most ministerial positions, who make decisions for the whole of the UK, are predominately around the centre-right (roughly). (The English are actually pretty conservative - the Welsh and the Scottish are more left wing, and shamefully I barely know anything about the Northern Irish...) The idea that Scotland will be able to shape up its own destiny much better according to Scottish desires and interest most likely is correct.
Last edited by Craigo at Aug 10, 2012,
#54
The only reason England are against Scottish independence is that they're jealous of our beautiful mountains
#55
Quote by raoooos
The only reason England are against Scottish independence is that they're jealous of our beautiful mountains

They also don't want to shut off the supply line of the glorious substance know as Irn-Bru.
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#56
Corby contains enough Scottishness for our needs, y'all can retreat to your mountains and wrestle with your fathers over which of your sisters you get to marry 'til you need us again.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#57
Quote by Craigo
I was 'let's the Scot's decide' until it's become pretty obvious that leading, campaigning Unionists are nasty sophists who should leave these matters almost entirely to the Scottish. Now I want the Scots to vote for independence, mostly out of spite against the unionists.

The Scottish on the whole are predominately around the centre-left (roughly), whilst England, who have the most MPs in the Houses of Parliament, and take most ministerial positions, who make decisions for the whole of the UK, are predominately around the centre-right (roughly). (The English are actually pretty conservative - the Welsh and the Scottish are more left wing, and shamefully I barely know anything about the Northern Irish...) The idea that Scotland will be able to shape up its own destiny much better according to Scottish desires and interest most likely is correct.


Oh well, in that case

#58
Quote by Todd Hart
Corby contains enough Scottishness for our needs, y'all can retreat to your mountains and wrestle with your fathers over which of your sisters you get to marry 'til you need us again.

You guys have Norfolk, don't talk to us about incest.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#59
Quote by Random88
I can see your point in that it's part of living in a democracy that not everyone gets their way, but you've oversimplified it - you didn't take into account the huge historical/cultural element. Scotland has a much bigger social/cultural identity than most, if not all, the US states, so it's there's a bigger resentment to having a PM nobody voted for.


I've oversimplified it? You realize that Texas' population is 5 times that of Scotland, and I won't even get started on the size. And there's definitely a Texan culture (not that we're proud of that).
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#60
Quote by StewieSwan
I've oversimplified it? You realize that Texas' population is 5 times that of Scotland, and I won't even get started on the size. And there's definitely a Texan culture (not we're proud of that).

But the Texan culture isn't superimposed over American culture.
I'd bet they still go nuts on July 4th, even though Texas was still in Mexico when independence was declared.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#61
Quote by slapsymcdougal
You guys have Norfolk, don't talk to us about incest.


English people inbreeding is still less against nature than Scottish people not.

And the whole of the UK ended up with a PM it hadn't legitimately voted in, don't pretend it's just you.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Last edited by Todd Hart at Aug 10, 2012,
#62
Quote by slapsymcdougal
But the Texan culture isn't superimposed over American culture.
I'd bet they still go nuts on July 4th, even though Texas was still in Mexico when independence was declared.



Texas was never a part of Mexico, you spanish-speaking, liberal puss.
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#63
Quote by Todd Hart
Corby contains enough Scottishness for our needs, y'all can retreat to your mountains and wrestle with your fathers over which of your sisters you get to marry 'til you need us again.


Corby the place that voted for Louise ****ing Mensch? What kind of shit Scots would vote for a Tory MP?

EDIT:

I was struck by the whole different cultures thing when I visited Scotland a few months ago. For most of our history, we've been warring and killing each other, and we've kind of been dicks. I don't know that any nation has a different history, I mean France didn't just spring into being as France, there were many many wars of unification and conquest and suppressions of regional identities involved. Perhaps the fact that Scotland still does feel distinct is a testament to how strong the identity is.

/ramble
Last edited by gabcd86 at Aug 10, 2012,
#64
I'm against scottish independence, mainly because they're one of the only things keeping the Tories from having a majority in every election.

Look at pretty much any general election map of the UK and you'll see blue down south and in the countryside and then red as you go north and in major cities.

If the argument for independence is to do with not being represented in Government, then I'm all for it, as long as we can go too.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#65
Someone mentioned Scotland having lots of wind energy (I think it was Random88).

I heard that two provinces in Germany have an oversupply of wind energy in Germany and that they couldn't get rid of it
I may have misunderstood it, but I got the impression that they couldn't sell it to other countries. Is that a possibility for Scotland? It would suck if Scotland couldn't sell all that energy, unless I misunderstood that.
#66
Quote by StewieSwan
I've oversimplified it? You realize that Texas' population is 5 times that of Scotland, and I won't even get started on the size. And there's definitely a Texan culture (not that we're proud of that).

But given the huge amount of history between all the relevant countries, there's a much bigger difference between Scottish/UK cultural identities than there is between Texas/USA identities.

Quote by Philip_pepper
Someone mentioned Scotland having lots of wind energy (I think it was Random88).

I heard that two provinces in Germany have an oversupply of wind energy in Germany and that they couldn't get rid of it
I may have misunderstood it, but I got the impression that they couldn't sell it to other countries. Is that a possibility for Scotland? It would suck if Scotland couldn't sell all that energy, unless I misunderstood that.

I'm pretty sure all European countries' grids are linked into one another, there must be a way to get revenue based on what you 'put into' the grid. For the energy companies anyway, but Scotland would surely get some tax money or something. I'm no expert though, so I don't know any specifics. It must be possible though
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Last edited by Random88 at Aug 10, 2012,
#68
Quote by Craigo
Also Scotland, if you build more universities I'll come join you guys.

We've got more than enough English students up here already
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#70
Quote by StewieSwan
Texas was never a part of Mexico, you spanish-speaking, liberal puss.

Between 1821 and 1836 it was.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#71
Quote by gabcd86
Unfair comparison. In London, we're, at least twice as good as your average human. In Scotland, they're barely worth half a person. Do the numbers account for that?


Everytime you do this here I'm going to have to remind you who London voted in for Mayor.

So long as the SNP court the left of labour vote and the main parties continue to be cunts on a colossal scale I'll be voting independence when it comes round.
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#72
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Between 1821 and 1836 it was.



Liberal lies. America was started by Texas.
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#73
Quote by StewieSwan
Liberal lies.

*gayseal.gif*
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#74
Quote by Craigo
Nahhh, I'll get my PhD down here and you can then gimme a job when you're independent by then, innit.

If your degree is in some sort of engineering, feel free to come to the oil capital of Europe
#75
Quote by leeb rocks
Everytime you do this here I'm going to have to remind you who London voted in for Mayor.

So long as the SNP court the left of labour vote and the main parties continue to be cunts on a colossal scale I'll be voting independence when it comes round.


All of this post infuriates me. The reminder of Boris, the reminder that my neck of the woods is full of Tory scum while you have cuddly social democrats....
#76
population of london outnumbers scotland, so idgaf mostly. the lack of tory support up that way is a bonus though. it exists outside the north but we're rarely concentrated just enough to overcome the silly voting system; where I know I'm just voting it out of principle and not really affecting anything. and most people I know who don't bother voting would've have gone tory.

I think we'd be better off united country, maybe a bit less london-centric though.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#77
Quote by gabcd86
All of this post infuriates me. The reminder of Boris, the reminder that my neck of the woods is full of Tory scum while you have cuddly social democrats....

Because England is shit, and needs Scotland to reduce the wank to good guy ratio.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#78
Yes, a divided UK is that much easier for us to conquer.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

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#79
Quote by leeb rocks
Everytime you do this here I'm going to have to remind you who London voted in for Mayor.

So long as the SNP court the left of labour vote and the main parties continue to be cunts on a colossal scale I'll be voting independence when it comes round.


1st time was because everyone thought ken was a slimy prick and thought it'd be funny to have boris.

2nd time was because everyone still thinks ken is a slimy prick and none of the smaller parties were that impressive.

livingstone just needs to piss off already.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#80
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Because England is shit, and needs Scotland to reduce the wank to good guy ratio.

I have a feeling this post will have gone over the heads of most non-Scots
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