Poll: Scottish Independence
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View poll results: Scottish Independence
I'm from America and I say yes
22 14%
I'm from America and I say no
6 4%
I'm from America and I don't care/know
28 18%
I'm from Europe and I say yes
8 5%
I'm from Europe and I say no
8 5%
I'm from Europe and I don't care
9 6%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say yes
23 15%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say no
24 16%
I'm from the UK specifically and I don't care
24 16%
Voters: 152.
Page 4 of 6
#121
Quote by Hydra150
I am Scottish and I just Independently decided to have lasagne for breakfast at half five in the morning.

So jealous right now.
#122
Quote by Mahoru
I really hope so! You're much more civilized and have a lot more common sense than the Spanish people here, as you might know. In fact, I think if they were like you, there could still be a possibility of coexistence here, but since they act like know-it-alls and openly disrespect us, well... that's just not an option any more

You have clearly never been to Scotland Glasgow
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#123
Quote by Mahoru
I really hope so! You're much more civilized and have a lot more common sense than the Spanish people here, as you might know. In fact, I think if they were like you, there could still be a possibility of coexistence here, but since they act like know-it-alls and openly disrespect us, well... that's just not an option any more

What exactly are the problems with Catalonia and the rest of Spain?


Quote by Random88
You have clearly never been to Scotland Glasgow


Lol I always thought Edinburghers were the know-it-alls. I will also add that my idea of heaven would be living in Spain if I could bring all the chill Glaswegians with me.


The rest can be sent to Edinbrah.
Last edited by Philip_pepper at Aug 11, 2012,
#124
Nobody likes the English and no one wants to be associated with them. The Scottish and Irish like to drink and have a merry time, the English like to go abroad and piss in local's gardens and shag in the streets like a bunch of filthy animals.
When people think of the English they think of this fucking cretin:


And the Welsh are just the Welsh, a bunch of pushovers who will do whatever they're told, the English can have them.
#126
Quote by Philip_pepper
What exactly are the problems with Catalonia and the rest of Spain?


Lol I always thought Edinburghers were the know-it-alls. I will also add that my idea of heaven would be living in Spain if I could bring all the chill Glaswegians with me.




The country itself is pretty cool, it's true. The problem is a big part of the people (not everybody of course, there's also very nice people all around Spain). They just can't accept the fact that we have a different language and a different culture, and they openly hate us for that reason. Also, the fact that part of the media coming from the capital makes us look like monsters doesn't help and is just spreading hate.

From an economic point of view, it's even worse. We all know things are pretty bad everywhere nowadays, but one can't expect to work for free for a long time because your boss has wasted all the money he was supposed to pay you, right? That's what's happening here: Catalonia has been "milked" for many many years now, we've always been the ones who paid the most in Spain, but also the ones who received the least. Around 9% of our GDP goes to Madrid and never comes back, every year. That doesn't happen anywhere else. And that's just one among lots of other things that shouldn't be happening. And now, they expect us to keep paying the same insane amount of money; money we don't have because they've already stolen it, and of course they've already wasted it.

Simply put, Spain's attitude towards us can be sumed up in a phrase like "we hate you and want you far away, but since you're our property and pay our bills, we can do what we want". Sad, but it's what is happening.


Quote by Random88
You have clearly never been to Scotland Glasgow


I were there some years ago, just for a couple of days, but I liked it
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Last edited by Mahoru at Aug 11, 2012,
#127
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I wouldn't go for indemapendance unless we could dynamite ourselves off of England and go someplace warmer.


Scotland will ALWAYS be cold, even if it somehow drifted to a warm region, that's just the way it works, man.

There was a thread on this once before i think, there were some more important points than just tryhard nationalism, but i really can't remember what they were, and i don't really care too much about the situation, and i'm from the UK.
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#128
Quote by Mahoru
The country itself is pretty cool, it's true. The problem is a big part of the people (not everybody of course, there's also very nice people all around Spain). They just can't accept the fact that we have a different language and a different culture, and they openly hate us for that reason. Also, the fact that part of the media coming from the capital makes us look like monsters doesn't help and is just spreading hate.

From an economic point of view, it's even worse. We all know things are pretty bad everywhere nowadays, but one can't expect to work for free for a long time because your boss has wasted all the money he was supposed to pay you, right? That's what's happening here: Catalonia has been "milked" for many many years now, we've always been the ones who paid the most in Spain, but also the ones who received the least. Around 9% of our GDP goes to Madrid and never comes back, every year. That doesn't happen anywhere else. And that's just one among lots of other things that shouldn't be happening. And now, they expect us to keep paying the same insane amount of money; money we don't have because they've already stolen it, and of course they've already wasted it.

Simply put, Spain's attitude towards us can be sumed up in a phrase like "we hate you and want you far away, but since you're our property and pay our bills, we can do what we want". Sad, but it's what is happening.


I were there some years ago, just for a couple of days, but I liked it


Sounds a bit like Scotland and Bavaria in Germany, but worse. I read somewhere that, if Scotland did get independence it would greatly affect Spain's issues
and encourage Catalonians and the Basque People to strive for independence.
#129
Quote by Philip_pepper
Sounds a bit like Scotland and Bavaria in Germany, but worse. I read somewhere that, if Scotland did get independence it would greatly affect Spain's issues
and encourage Catalonians and the Basque People to strive for independence.


It's true, and I really hope it works out, for the benefit of everybody! But I think it will be a bit more difficult here, since Catalonia and the Basque Country are basically the main economic motors of Spain, along with Madrid. With the mindset they have, I doubt they will let us go, even if we decide it democratically. Well, as of now that would be impossible, since they don't let us vote or barely talk about it
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Last edited by Mahoru at Aug 11, 2012,
#130
I'm Scottish and I'm for it. You're an idiot if you think that Scottish independence is all about "screw the English, we're out of here". I see it as a country has the right to self rule. When your laws, education, and culture set you apart, why should you be ruled by a group that has no idea over what the people want? A retired couple in Lothian will care more about their heating that what some diddy in Kent has done with their garden

The Conservatives have been roundly cuffed in Scotland for years (a Tory MSP is rarer in Scotland than a giant panda). Labour have suffered greatly, and as per usual the Lib Dems have done diddly squat. SNP have now had a majority for two terms, and claiming that you didn't know the independence party wanted independence when you voted means you need to talk a long walk off a short cliff
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#131
Quote by Captain_On!
I'm Scottish and I'm for it. You're an idiot if you think that Scottish independence is all about "screw the English, we're out of here". I see it as a country has the right to self rule. When your laws, education, and culture set you apart, why should you be ruled by a group that has no idea over what the people want? A retired couple in Lothian will care more about their heating that what some diddy in Kent has done with their garden

The Conservatives have been roundly cuffed in Scotland for years (a Tory MSP is rarer in Scotland than a giant panda). Labour have suffered greatly, and as per usual the Lib Dems have done diddly squat. SNP have now had a majority for two terms, and claiming that you didn't know the independence party wanted independence when you voted means you need to talk a long walk off a short cliff

Not really. There are 15 Tory MSPs and 2 giant pandas, making Tory MSPs almost 8 times more prevalent.
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#132
Quote by Mahoru
It's true, and I really hope it works out, for the benefit of everybody! But I think it will be a bit more difficult here, since Catalonia and the Basque Country are basically the main economic motors of Spain, along with Madrid. With the mindset they have, I doubt they will let us go, even if we decide it democratically. Well, as of now that would be impossible, since they don't let us vote or barely talk about it


Don't forget the overwhelming economic power that is Andalusia.
#133
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Not really. There are 15 Tory MSPs and 2 giant pandas, making Tory MSPs almost 8 times more prevalent.


Well crap. Thought it was 1. You learn something new everyday
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#134
Quote by Captain_On!
Well crap. Thought it was 1. You learn something new everyday

There's only 1 Tory MP(elected by a Scottish constituency) at Westminster. But since the Scottish Parliament uses a different electoral system, more get in.
Quote by Diemon Dave
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#135
Quote by Philip_pepper
Don't forget the overwhelming economic power that is Andalusia.


Dem olives.
#137
Quote by Random88
Pandas>Tory MPs

Tories have a lot that pandas could learn from.


Well, specifically Boris Johnson does.

Stupid bastards don't seem to know how to bone each other.
Quote by Diemon Dave
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#138
Quote by Philip_pepper
Don't forget the overwhelming economic power that is Andalusia.


Precisely Andalusia is one of the parts of Spain that benefits more of that 9% I was talking about earlier
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#139
Quote by Craigo

The Scottish on the whole are predominately around the centre-left (roughly), whilst England, who have the most MPs in the Houses of Parliament, and take most ministerial positions, who make decisions for the whole of the UK, are predominately around the centre-right (roughly). (The English are actually pretty conservative - the Welsh and the Scottish are more left wing, and shamefully I barely know anything about the Northern Irish...) The idea that Scotland will be able to shape up its own destiny much better according to Scottish desires and interest most likely is correct.


They're all competely fucking mental
#140
Quote by gabcd86
The EU can't really operate without the consent of its member states. They can use the EU as cover for stuff, but as demonstrated by the British government repeatedly ignoring rulings from the ECHR, or the near-universal breaking of the stability pact, national governments will continue not giving ****s.

Indeed, but the representatives rarely listen to the people. The British gouvernment is the exception, my gouvernment just agrees with anything Merkel and Sarkozy (now Hollande, but he hasn't done much yet, internationally) say while I and many others don't want these policy changes. So much for democracy...

I can't comment on your Dutch example, as I don't know what impact the EU has on property laws, etc., but my point was more in terms of fostering trade, which its removal of barriers has done, and also the cultural change it has brought about.

I wouldn't give the EU too much credit. There was a time, not even 100 years ago, where there was no such thing as border control. Passports and closed borders are all post-WWI, in Europe atleast. The Schengen-treaty merely reverted the paranoid situation. Now, we fear all outside of Europe and job-stealers. Not a bad trade.

*On the subject of other cultural minorities*

I agree with the statement that people like the Catalans and the Basque might find new incentive to fight for their independance thanks to the Scottish referendum, if it results in an independant Scotland. The same might happen with Occitania (a region of France, I've forgotten exactly where it is) or Belgium, though I have doubts with that last one. The Flemish don't really like the Walloons, like the Walloons don't like the Flemish, but at the same time, they don't want to be independant; too much risk, Wallonia is not quite wealthy compared to Flanders and Flanders needs the connection to Germany for their trade.

Not to mention the IRA...
Last edited by Lord_Doku at Aug 11, 2012,
#141
I'm from Ireland and I would like to see Scottish independence. Why should a people be governed by people in a different country? Why should peoples hard earned money be used to fight wars that are not necessary and do not concern them? Why should they have to give 54p a year (I know it's a pathetically small amount but its the principle) to a head of state i.e Queen Lizzy a war criminal who sits on her arse all day doing sweet **** all whislt shaking hands with other war lords around the world? A country should be ruled by a government elected by the people for the people not a government elected by other people for other people.

If Scotland leave the UK I hope this will get the ball rolling again for the British government to leave Northern Ireland, it's about time we governed ourselve's without outside interference.
#142
Quote by Kerbache
I'm from Ireland and I would like to see Scottish independence. Why should a people be governed by people in a different country? Why should peoples hard earned money be used to fight wars that are not necessary and do not concern them? Why should they have to give 54p a year (I know it's a pathetically small amount but its the principle) to a head of state i.e Queen Lizzy a war criminal who sits on her arse all day doing sweet **** all whislt shaking hands with other war lords around the world? A country should be ruled by a government elected by the people for the people not a government elected by other people for other people.

If Scotland leave the UK I hope this will get the ball rolling again for the British government to leave Northern Ireland, it's about time we governed ourselve's without outside interference.


lol
#143
Quote by Kerbache
I'm from Ireland and I would like to see Scottish independence. Why should a people be governed by people in a different country? Why should peoples hard earned money be used to fight wars that are not necessary and do not concern them? Why should they have to give 54p a year (I know it's a pathetically small amount but its the principle) to a head of state i.e Queen Lizzy a war criminal who sits on her arse all day doing sweet **** all whislt shaking hands with other war lords around the world? A country should be ruled by a government elected by the people for the people not a government elected by other people for other people.

If Scotland leave the UK I hope this will get the ball rolling again for the British government to leave Northern Ireland, it's about time we governed ourselve's without outside interference.

I'd get rid of the Monarchy in a heartbeat, but calling Liz a war criminal is a bit harsh...
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#144
Disclaimer: I'm American.

I say let Scotland be free. If they screw themselves over, it's their own fault. If they really want freedom, then they'll find a way to make it work. If it's just big talk and nationalism and egotistic reasons, then they're screwed.

My two cents
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#145
Quote by guitarlord28
Disclaimer: I'm American.

I say let Scotland be free. If they screw themselves over, it's their own fault. If they really want freedom, then they'll find a way to make it work. If it's just big talk and nationalism and egotistic reasons, then they're screwed.

My two cents

What if it's a bit of both?
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#146
Quote by Random88
I'd get rid of the Monarchy in a heartbeat, but calling Liz a war criminal is a bit harsh...


Not really considering she is head of the British armed forces who have committed a number of war crimes in the north of Ireland, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.
#147
Quote by Kerbache
Not really considering she is head of the British armed forces who have committed a number of war crimes in the north of Ireland, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.

She's just the scapegoat Blair needs. I knew that old crone was the mastermind all along.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
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#148
Quote by Kerbache

If Scotland leave the UK I hope this will get the ball rolling again for the British government to leave Northern Ireland, it's about time we governed ourselve's without outside interference.


the situations are somewhat different
#149
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I'm against scottish independence, mainly because they're one of the only things keeping the Tories from having a majority in every election.

Look at pretty much any general election map of the UK and you'll see blue down south and in the countryside and then red as you go north and in major cities.

If the argument for independence is to do with not being represented in Government, then I'm all for it, as long as we can go too.


Come to Yorkshire. You remember how the Election map had a giant red band across it? Yeah, that was us.
We should be allowed to form our own country as well.
#150
Quote by Kerbache
I'm from Ireland and I would like to see Scottish independence. Why should a people be governed by people in a different country? Why should peoples hard earned money be used to fight wars that are not necessary and do not concern them? Why should they have to give 54p a year (I know it's a pathetically small amount but its the principle) to a head of state i.e Queen Lizzy a war criminal who sits on her arse all day doing sweet **** all whislt shaking hands with other war lords around the world? A country should be ruled by a government elected by the people for the people not a government elected by other people for other people.

If Scotland leave the UK I hope this will get the ball rolling again for the British government to leave Northern Ireland, it's about time we governed ourselve's without outside interference.


Perhaps you're not aware of this, but Queen Elisabeth II has practically no political power. It's been that way since the Glorious Revolution. And even before that, the Magna Carta back in 1215 limited the Crown's power enough to (at that time) legally justify a Parliament.

It's completely illogical to call the Queen a war criminal, just because of that.

EDIT: To be more specific, look up on the Bill Of Rights.
Last edited by Lord_Doku at Aug 11, 2012,
#151
Quote by raoooos
Al Murray is a cunt, no doubt about that.

Y'know he went to Oxford and is an apparently left-leaning guy; The Pub Landlord being an act?

Anyway, I'd be broadly behind Scottish Independence but I do think it'd be a shame to see the union fall apart. As Lemon (and Stewart Lee) have argued, Scotland plays a big part in stopping the Tories having a massive majority. There's a lot of issues around this though and I've not done a lot of reading into the situation.

Would other Brits have much of a say in this ie Angles, the Welsh etc.
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#152
Quote by Kerbache
I'm from Ireland and I would like to see Scottish independence. Why should a people be governed by people in a different country? Why should peoples hard earned money be used to fight wars that are not necessary and do not concern them? Why should they have to give 54p a year (I know it's a pathetically small amount but its the principle) to a head of state i.e Queen Lizzy a war criminal who sits on her arse all day doing sweet **** all whislt shaking hands with other war lords around the world? A country should be ruled by a government elected by the people for the people not a government elected by other people for other people.

If Scotland leave the UK I hope this will get the ball rolling again for the British government to leave Northern Ireland, it's about time we governed ourselve's without outside interference.


All of this applies to English people too.
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#153
Quote by Cal UK
Y'know he went to Oxford and is an apparently left-leaning guy; The Pub Landlord being an act?

You're right, I let the fact that I don't find him remotely funny obscure the fact that he's playing a character. Apologies.
#154
Quote by Todd Hart
All of this applies to English people too.


This is why I'm on the fence about the whole thing. From what I've seen people are saying 'the British government' but meaning 'the English government'. I understand that the entire UK has historically been Anglicised and that the UK government is for the most part based in England but 'British' means England, Wales, and Scotland and it applies to all countries equally. I don't live there (so I know my opinion isn't as valid as a lot of people in this thread) but I don't see how Scotland can't keep it's national identity and autonomy under the UK (same thing applies to every country under the UK). If Scotland wants independence fine, but this is why I don't feel as strongly about Scottish independence as I do Palestine, North American tribes, etc.

Edit: Of course I'm leaving out all of the practical stuff but I'm not really that well read on everything like some of you. Even though I'm American I don't want to see the Union fall apart.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Aug 11, 2012,
#156
Quote by slipknot5678
This is why I'm on the fence about the whole thing. From what I've seen people are saying 'the British government' but meaning 'the English government'. I understand that the entire UK has historically been Anglicised and that the UK government is for the most part based in England but 'British' means England, Wales, and Scotland and it applies to all countries equally. I don't live there (so I know my opinion isn't as valid as a lot of people in this thread) but I don't see how Scotland can't keep it's national identity and autonomy under the UK (same thing applies to every country under the UK). If Scotland wants independence fine, but this is why I don't feel as strongly about Scottish independence as I do Palestine, North American tribes, etc.


Scotland's national identity is celebrated throughout the UK, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a significant way in which its identity has been oppressed, at least in modern times. Of course, in the past the oppression of the language especially has been massively detrimental, but I daresay if pressure was placed to re-establish the teaching of Scottish in Scottish schools then it would be, much the same as has happened in Wales. The UK is a rather loose band of countries really, and if more political power was ceded to Scotland it would be far better for the country than trying to establish itself as an independent nation. It's become clear in the last century that unity is simply a better way in which to establish civilisation, and so the point should be more on fair representation of the Scottish people politically, rather than true independence. Give Scotland more political freedom whilst maintaining the defence, legal, healthcare and education systems and it will fare far better than if it attempts to move onto independence. Of course, it may work in the long term, but with the global economy how it is and the North Sea Oil only acting as a short term booster for the economy I think if independence is granted then many people in Scotland will be negatively impacted.
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#157
Quote by Lord_Doku
Perhaps you're not aware of this, but Queen Elisabeth II has practically no political power. It's been that way since the Glorious Revolution. And even before that, the Magna Carta back in 1215 limited the Crown's power enough to (at that time) legally justify a Parliament.

It's completely illogical to call the Queen a war criminal, just because of that.

EDIT: To be more specific, look up on the Bill Of Rights.


I am aware of this, but I am sure you are aware that actions carried out by her majestys armed forces are carried out in her name. She makes no attempt to apologise for any of the war crimes her armed forces commit. Her armed forces and MP's are there to serve her and have to swear an oath to be loyal and serve her and although she doesn't give the order for such crimes to take place her position of head of state and head of the armed forces means she must take responsibility.
#158
Quote by Kerbache
I'm from Ireland and I would like to see Scottish independence. Why should a people be governed by people in a different country? Why should peoples hard earned money be used to fight wars that are not necessary and do not concern them? Why should they have to give 54p a year (I know it's a pathetically small amount but its the principle) to a head of state i.e Queen Lizzy a war criminal who sits on her arse all day doing sweet **** all whislt shaking hands with other war lords around the world? A country should be ruled by a government elected by the people for the people not a government elected by other people for other people.

If Scotland leave the UK I hope this will get the ball rolling again for the British government to leave Northern Ireland, it's about time we governed ourselve's without outside interference.

Do you mean as a part of Ireland, or as an independent nation?
Because if you're a part of Ireland, then you'll be being governed mostly by southern Irish people elected by the numerically superior southern Irish.
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#159
Quote by Kerbache
I am aware of this, but I am sure you are aware that actions carried out by her majestys armed forces are carried out in her name. She makes no attempt to apologise for any of the war crimes her armed forces commit. Her armed forces and MP's are there to serve her and have to swear an oath to be loyal and serve her and although she doesn't give the order for such crimes to take place her position of head of state and head of the armed forces means she must take responsibility.


Why should she apologise? she has no knowledge of what many of the military's branches internal affairs are, and also would have no power to do anything about it even if she knew.

And I don't see how killing off extremists and fanatical suicide murderers is a war crime, in fact I'm fairly certain that if guns are a legitimate tool for murder then that's exactly what they're for, but that's for a different thread.
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#160
Quote by Kerbache
I am aware of this, but I am sure you are aware that actions carried out by her majestys armed forces are carried out in her name. She makes no attempt to apologise for any of the war crimes her armed forces commit. Her armed forces and MP's are there to serve her and have to swear an oath to be loyal and serve her and although she doesn't give the order for such crimes to take place her position of head of state and head of the armed forces means she must take responsibility.

So why wasn't Bush indicted for any of the war crimes committed by American troops in Iraq or Afghanistan, seeing as he was both head of state and CinC?
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