andykndr
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
160 IQ
#1
Take this song for instance - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXtgHGrL9E - I know he's been playing for years, and I haven't even been playing for a year, but what I don't understand is how he knew which notes to hit in order to play such a beautiful song, not to mention playing it fast and clean.

What I'm asking is, how can i learn to do the stuff that guitar soloists do, hitting a bunch of different notes, that sound good together, and doing it quickly. Will learning scales help? Any tips will be greatly appreciated!
Kevin Saale
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#2
Start with scales, then some basic music theory will teach you what scales in what key go with what chord progressions.
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llBlackenedll
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#3
Interesting choice of song to ask about note choice - to me the most compelling feature was the odd rhythms all the way through. It's rhythmically bonkers. While I realise I haven't answered your question... cheers for linking that, it was an interesting listen.
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Hydra150
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#5
http://www.musictheory.net/ - website with music theory lessons

The Crusade - music theory articles, written for guitarists

Also, this thread should go in MT.
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#6
okay okay, I'll move it!

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Sn@il!
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Join date: Jan 2012
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#7
Scales, Arpeggios and other music theory will really help you with this. Also, get expierence with improvising and how to use accidentals.

Also: learn to play that song, and find out in what key it is and witch scale is used. (and witch accidentals, but that's hard if you just started doing this)

I think this is enough to begin with choosing right notes to play.

Here are some useful links:

http://jguitar.com - Here you can find most of the scales you want + extra stuff.

http://www.musictheory.net/ - Common music theory

http://www.myguitarsolo.com/ - Find out what techniques famous guitarist use, also scales and cool licks and shit
MaggaraMarine
Slapping the bass.
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#8
Ear training.

/thread
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sixsrtingsunder
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
56 IQ
#9
You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them
like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.
sixsrtingsunder
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Join date: Aug 2012
56 IQ
#11
You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.
HotspurJr
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2011
191 IQ
#12
Quote by sixsrtingsunder
You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time.


I don't like this advice because it appears that you're using the mode names to refer to different scale positions on the neck. I think this is a bad way to learn the fretboard. I much prefer a CAGED-system approach. You don't want somebody thinking that they're playing in Aeolian just because they're using a position that has the sixth as the lowest note.

There are two parts of the answer to the OPs question.

The first is to study theory. While MusicTheory.net is good, as free resources go, I actually think a good intro book on theory (I like Shroeder and Wyatt's "Harmony and Theory") is a better approach. The good news is that theory really isn't that hard. However - theory isn't particularly meaningful if you can't also hear it, so it's important to combine your study of theory with ear training. Download the functional ear trainer from miles.be and use it.

The second part is the application of theory to the guitar. For this, I recommend "The Guitar Fretboard Workbook" which uses the CAGED system to teach you the entire fretboard. This has an advantage over using mode names in that it avoids confusing terminology. In the past 20 years the CAGED system has really become the dominant system for learning the whole fretboard. It seems to be how nearly everyone is learning these days.
sixsrtingsunder
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
56 IQ
#13
You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them
like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.
Hail
i'm a mean bully
Join date: Jan 2010
431 IQ
#14
Quote by sixsrtingsunder
You are asking the same question i think every guitarist asks at first. This is how I did it. Tune to standard,(at least at first). Learn the 7 modes in theee note per string fasion two octaves at a time. Cover all six strings with each mode. There are 7. Learn these as shapes. The key here is to think of them
like jig saw puzzle peices. They will fit together that way across the neck. Their names are: Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian. When you can play them all in order comfortably, youll start to see a bigger shape. This is the key. There are twelve frets. There are 12 keys. All you do is move the shape of the key where it fits the best for your riff. Its still the same shape just moved to a diff. fret. Its the same thing when you play a Dmin chord then move that shape up two frets... now you have an Emin chord. Go now and get tabs from your favorite player research how he/she uses the keys and mode it should start to become obvious about now.


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spike4379
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2006
66 IQ
#15
well i would say learn all the notes of the frettboard before you look up shapes because of what im about to say.
learn your sharps in keys and flats.
they go like this.
F(ather) C(ristmas) G(ets) D(iarrhoeal) A(fter) E(ating) B(iscuits) <sharps in their key order.
flats > B(oys) E(at) A(ll) D(ay) G(irls) C(ook) F(ood)
now thats handy if you can do two things; 1 memorise the rhymes 2 when you know you have to solo in G major and they key for that is 1 sharp [F(ather)] so you can play any natural note on the guitar except F, you have to play F#. the only other thing that would help along those lines if you so choose to go that way is learn how many sharps or flats are in a key. what i do is pretty easy. when you look at a flat key signature lets say Bb, if you look at the flats rhyme we can find out how many flats it has this way " the second last flat in a flat key signature is the actual key" having said that we add the first flat from the rhyme Bb then Eb and you have it. play every natural note except Bb and Eb. sharps are almost the same. the last sharp in a key signature is the leading tone in the key (the last note in the scale) so for Gmajor which if we look at the sharps rhyme we see F(ather) is first and the only note after an F# is a G so play like i said about gmajor before. probably not helpful in your situation but thats what broke the ice for me and opened my eye in major scale key identification

those work for all major keys, only thing is the key of F which is just 1 flat Bb, the rhyme for that is" what do you do when you get 1 flat (tire on a car) you say F"
Last edited by spike4379 at Aug 24, 2012,
91RG350
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#16
Quote by spike4379
well i would say learn all the notes of the frettboard...

Great advice....how did you do it? TS could learn from your experience
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spike4379
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2006
66 IQ
#17
ahh now its a real pain in the ass, but once you know the music scale, start from open bottom E and just go up 1 frett and make sure you know what each frett note is. joe satriani had this fantastic exersize that makes you learn it no problem, get a metronome and set it to something dreadfully slow say 40 bpm and on every crotchet beat play 1 seperate E and go up each octave across all the strings, but dont just go oh im gonna practice E, oh now F then F#, jump up randomly from say E to G# or Db. once you do that your pretty much a free man
Dodeka
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#18
A key is named for its tonic triad, not a particular collection of notes beyond those in that triad. You can associate a key with a particular major or minor scale, but you can play all sorts of notes outside of that scale and still be in key.
Captaincranky
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2011
288 IQ
#19
Learn what notes are in all Keys.....!!! They'll all fit at one point or another in the song.

Are we playing, "Jeopardy", or am I on, "Candid Camera"?


Quote by Dodeka
A key is named for its tonic triad, not a particular collection of notes beyond those in that triad. You can associate a key with a particular major or minor scale, but you can play all sorts of notes outside of that scale and still be in key.
Right on bro...! Play whatever you feel like playing..!! I say we do away with key signatures altogether! Just chord symbols over the words or a tab, that's where it's at.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 24, 2012,
Withorwithout
Registered User
Join date: May 2012
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#20
What does "TS" and "OP" mean by the way, i see them all over the place. And maybe some more i dont remember.
Nietsche
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#21
Quote by griffRG7321
All notes fit in all the keys.


This.

Quote by Withorwithout
What does "TS" and "OP" mean by the way, i see them all over the place. And maybe some more i dont remember.


'Thread Starter' and 'Original Post'/'Original Poster' (Depends on the context). They're pretty common acronyms on webforums.
.
Captaincranky
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Join date: Sep 2011
288 IQ
#22
Quote by Withorwithout
What does "TS" and "OP" mean by the way, i see them all over the place. And maybe some more i dont remember.


"TS", means "Thread Starter".

"OP", means, "Original Post". (The original topic or question, as it were).

A Major or Minor key always have scales associated with them. Depending on the letter you start on, these scales will have sharps or flats, because the scales have tonal structual patterns they must follow. These are written in 1/2 tone, (sometimes called "semi tones") patterns. A piano shows us this in great detail, as there are black and white keys that display the full 12 tones of the chromatic scale.

If you want to learn what scale corresponds with which key at the basic level, you're just going to have to suck it up, and sit down and study, no exceptions.

Basic theory knowledge consists on a few basic things: the chromatic scale, forming major and minor scales from it, and learning to form the "triads", (3 note chords) from any particular scale. These form the harmonic backdrop for the melody.

In C Major, (or ANY major key), the most important "triads" happen on the 1st, 4th, & 5th degrees of the scale. In C major, these chords would be C, F, G, (all major chords). In G major, those same scale degree chords become, G, C, & D.

So, there's no shortcut, or a single internet post that's going to answer your question. It's gonna' to take some "book larnin'".
HotspurJr
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2011
191 IQ
#23
Quote by Withorwithout
What does "TS" and "OP" mean by the way, i see them all over the place. And maybe some more i dont remember.


TS means threadstarter.

OP means original poster.

They mean the same thing - the guy who asked the original question. This board seems to prefer TS, but other ones prefer OP.
CarsonStevens
Rocksmith
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#24
Quote by andykndr
Take this song for instance - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXtgHGrL9E - I know he's been playing for years, and I haven't even been playing for a year, but what I don't understand is how he knew which notes to hit in order to play such a beautiful song, not to mention playing it fast and clean.

What I'm asking is, how can i learn to do the stuff that guitar soloists do, hitting a bunch of different notes, that sound good together, and doing it quickly. Will learning scales help? Any tips will be greatly appreciated!


You want to know two things.

1) How to know which notes to select for a solo/melody.

2) How to play it well (IE, "fast & clean").

I'll answer #2 first. You practice! Start slow (use a metronome) and work your way up to the speed you want to be able to play at, advancing a few bpm whenever you master the tempo you're at. You'll get there, but don't expect it to happen overnight. Don't expect it to happen in a few months, either. The riff I've been using as my target drill I've been playing for like, two years. Of course, I don't practice every day, so... practice every day.

Now, #1. Whether the dude improvised his solo or wrote it out beforehand, the process is the same; know the notes the key, how they relate, and how to use them. More specifically, learn how to write a melody. I always recommend the following two books, as they worked for me;

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Composition
The Complete Idiot's Guide to Solos and Improvisation

You definitely want to know the difference between structural and passing tones, and how to harmonize with the underlying chords. That's 3/4's of your hurdles right there.

Then, once you know that stuff... you write solos. Experiment. Keep what works, toss what doesn't. Simple as that. Well, maybe not so simple; I've re-written the solo to a song I'm working on at least three times over the last two years.

And, if none of this stuff makes sense just yet... it will, eventually. Just keep studying/practicing and it will all come together.
Last edited by CarsonStevens at Aug 24, 2012,
Withorwithout
Registered User
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188 IQ
#25
Quote by Nietsche

'Thread Starter' and 'Original Post'/'Original Poster' (Depends on the context). They're pretty common acronyms on webforums.


Thanks Nietsche! I haven't hanged out on english webforums much =).
spike4379
Registered User
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#26
yeah and the greatest secret kept by all guitarist which im sure il be killed for saying the key to being fast, is practicing painfully slow, find a run in a solo you like thats written down right, and practice it with a mETRONOME, i dont care what new age guru crap says about throwing it away, you cant have good groove and rhythm without locking in with a metronome and getting a great sense of time! practice the run (or one you have made) slooooowly maybe 80 bpm at quavers/ 8ths then in a weeks time of trying not to gouge your eyes out move the tempo up to 82, unless your achieving the speed you want and its very clean (do it with a clean tone too YES it does help) then move up until speed is required, i had to do this a dreamtheater called pull me under.
Captaincranky
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2011
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#27
Quote by spike4379
yeah and the greatest secret kept by all guitarist which im sure il be killed for saying the key to being fast, is practicing painfully slow, find a run in a solo you like thats written down right, and practice it with a mETRONOME, i dont care what new age guru crap says about throwing it away, you cant have good groove and rhythm without locking in with a metronome and getting a great sense of time! practice the run (or one you have made) slooooowly maybe 80 bpm at quavers/ 8ths then in a weeks time of trying not to gouge your eyes out move the tempo up to 82, unless your achieving the speed you want and its very clean (do it with a clean tone too YES it does help) then move up until speed is required, i had to do this a dreamtheater called pull me under.
Spike, isn't this answer intended to go into this thread: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=30207261#post30207261 ? Because it surely has no bearing on this one. Um, 'jus sayin'.
sixsrtingsunder
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
56 IQ
#29
Tough crowd, but none the less, it is a way. It dont make it wrong if you dont like it. Now you have more to go on. ...And what everyone is saying here is true. In the end you learn all the notes on the fretboard so well that its subconcious. You are only caged if you want to be...in other words...just play.