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#121
Quote by Xiaoxi
Because if it wasn't so fixed on catering to everyone, it could be innovative by creating a new, superior OS from scratch.


That's not true at all. Different software are being developed on different platforms for one reason or another. I don't think there's any single constant advantage.


It appears we're not even arguing the same thing.

I don't even disagree with you

Carry on.
#122
Quote by Eastwinn
It appears we're not even arguing the same thing.

I don't even disagree with you

Carry on.

It's nice to talk to someone who actually knows shit about tech for a change

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#123
Quote by Xiaoxi
It's nice to talk to someone who actually knows shit about tech for a change


Hey any day
#124
The thing is, Apple's closed front-end customization isn't about "dumbing things down" for people who couldn't care less about customization or do not have the skills necessary. It's about keeping their software secret.

Their closed software is the only way to ensure nobody edits, rewrites, steals, whatever. They have a monopoly over this and it's tearing honest competitors apart. Do you know why they charge hundreds of dollars for their products? Because they can. People would rather buy the simplistic and easy-to-use iphone and shell out hundreds of dollars than buy an Android phone at half the price. I'm not saying it's right, in fact it's downright disgusting. But that's what's happening.

Now that people are starting to buy more and more non-Apple smartphones and tablets and the market is expanding, Apple gets butthurt and wants to hinder the competition. Simple as that.

I think this case is a load of crap and anyone with common-sense would agree that Apple shouldn't have complete dominion over the smartphone market just because they had a black rectangular phone first. What about Motorola and HTC? Is Apple going to sue them too just because they also have rectangular phones? Where does this end? As many people have said earlier in this thread, it's similar to Nike suing Adidas for also making a tennis shoe.
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#125
Quote by Kensai

Had this been in South Korea Apple would've paid.
Personally, I don't think either should have to pay.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 25, 2012,
#126
Even though I like the whole Apple bashing and enjoy the superior OS debate.

This is turning into a versus thread now so people should get back on topic and talk about the news article.
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#127
Quote by Delta3Xray
The thing is, Apple's closed front-end customization isn't about "dumbing things down" for people who couldn't care less about customization or do not have the skills necessary. It's about keeping their software secret.
Partly true, but that's not the whole picture. Closed systems make for easier standardization and communication across different platforms. That can be a huge advantage for the end user.

They have a monopoly over this and it's tearing honest competitors apart. Do you know why they charge hundreds of dollars for their products? Because they can. People would rather buy the simplistic and easy-to-use iphone and shell out hundreds of dollars than buy an Android phone at half the price. I'm not saying it's right, in fact it's downright disgusting. But that's what's happening.
Not only does that have nothing to do with the price they charge, it's not even true. iPhone 4s and Samsung S3 cost almost exactly the same, contract or no contract. And how about tablets? Most Android tablets are as expensive, if not more so, than the iPad. Same goes for ultrabooks.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#128
Quote by Antis0cial
This is turning into a versus thread now so people should get back on topic and talk about the news article.

what? nice ironic nickname

Quote by Xiaoxi
Sure, Apple hasn't invented anything from scratch. But it's hard to argue that it didn't single handedly change the music industry, PCs, and usher in the move to smartphones and tablets.

hardly, they simply accelerated the transition by turning geek into chic which put technology into the hands of yuppies everywhere.
#130
Quote by Diamond Dave


hardly, they simply accelerated the transition by turning geek into chic which put technology into the hands of yuppies everywhere.

Isn't that exactly what he said they did? They changed it.
___

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#131
Quote by Horsedick.MPEG
As much as I love Xiaoxi, he really is a huge Apple fanboy.

But he has a Samsung
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#133
Quote by WCPhils
Isn't that exactly what he said they did? They changed it.

putting an i in front of everything doesn't count for jack IMO. That and making everything black, white or out of aluminium is about all Apple has "changed". Its like how people say there would be no such thing as metal if Led Zeppelin didn't exist, give me a break.

also, from the FFUUU pics thread:


#134
Quote by Diamond Dave
hardly, they simply accelerated the transition by turning geek into chic which put technology into the hands of yuppies everywhere.

Nice bias.

GUI? The Macintosh was the first PC to ever implement it.

First successful legal online music distribution system and mass storage/management of music collection? iPod and iTunes.

First truly useable Internet browser on a phone? iPhone (although Android was developing theirs around the same time, it came out later).

First successful tablet? The day Apple announced the iPad, everyone laughed at how dumb of an idea it was.


Quote by Horsedick.MPEG
As much as I love Xiaoxi, he really is a huge Apple fanboy.


...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Aug 25, 2012,
#135
Mr. Xiaoxi how much does apple pay you to pretend to own non-apple products and try and convert people to their products?
#136
Quote by NotaHamsterBro
Mr. Xiaoxi how much does apple pay you to pretend to own non-apple products and try and convert people to their products?

I'm not trying to convert anybody to anything. I'm simply pointing out how idiotic most Android users are. And it's more to do with the misconceptions of open vs closed than any specific brand like Apple.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Aug 25, 2012,
#137
Quote by Xiaoxi
Nice bias.

GUI? The Macintosh was the first PC to ever implement it.

First successful legal online music distribution system and mass storage/management of music collection? iPod and iTunes.

First truly useable Internet browser on a phone? iPhone (although Android was developing theirs around the same time, it came out later).

First successful tablet? The day Apple announced the iPad, everyone laughed at how dumb of an idea it was.

By any chance have you read the Steve Jobs biography?
#140
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
By any chance have you read the Steve Jobs biography?

Yes. Why?

Quote by Dirge Humani
Fixt

Oh yea, thanks.

Quote by NotaHamsterBro
Oh. People stating facts you don't believe in equals misconception. Gotcha.

Uh...what facts? I feel like you're grasping at straws here, trying your hardest to say anything meaningful but falling short.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#141
Quote by NotaHamsterBro
Oh. People stating facts you don't believe in equals misconception. Gotcha.

There have been very few facts stated int his thread. Most has been opinion about open-system vs. closed-system.

Quote by Xiaoxi
Yes. Why?

No reason.
#142
Quote by Xiaoxi
Nice bias.

GUI? The Macintosh was the first PC to ever implement it.

First successful legal online music distribution system and mass storage/management of music collection? iPod and iTunes.

First truly useable Internet browser on a phone? iPhone (although Android was developing theirs around the same time, it came out later).

First successful tablet? The day Apple announced the iPad, everyone laughed at how dumb of an idea it was.

and I'M biased? You've got to be kidding
#143
Quote by Diamond Dave
and I'M biased? You've got to be kidding



What is it with you guys and asking rhetorical questions rather than refute? Is it because...you don't know what you're talking about?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#144
Quote by Xiaoxi
I'm not trying to convert anybody to anything. I'm simply pointing out how idiotic most people are. And it's more to do with the misconceptions of open vs closed than any specific brand like Apple.

Fixed. People are dumb. Apple and Andriod users are people.

Quote by Diamond Dave
and I'M biased? You've got to be kidding

If you don't believe the facts, then go look it up. Stop being ignorant.
#146
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Fixed. People are dumb. Apple and Andriod users are people.

Throw me a bone here. Are the people ITT arguing against me indeed fucking retarded and being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian or what? The only one who had good points was Eastwinn, and he agreed with me!

Quote by jazz_rock_feel
What exactly is the argument about?

too much...too much

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#147
Quote by Xiaoxi


What is it with you guys and asking rhetorical questions rather than refute? Is it because...you don't know what you're talking about?

Quote by crazysam23_Atax
If you don't believe the facts, then go look it up. Stop being ignorant.

they're not facts, "truly useable", "successful", that's just subjective bullshit. People were doing it before Apple and often better, they just weren't as good at selling it.
#148
Quote by Diamond Dave
they're not facts, "truly useable", "successful", that's just subjective bullshit. People were doing it before Apple and often better, they just weren't as good at selling it.

So enlighten me. Give some concrete examples.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#149
Quote by Xiaoxi
Throw me a bone here. Are the people ITT arguing against me indeed fucking retarded and being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian or what? The only one who had good points was Eastwinn, and he agreed with me!

Airight...well, they are being fucking retarded. However, that's most because they're either A) PC fanboys or Samsung fanboys or whatever OR B) they're ignorant OR C) both A and B. Of the three, B) & C) are most inexcusable. Ignorance is bad, guys!

Quote by Diamond Dave
they're not facts, "truly useable", "successful", that's just subjective bullshit. People were doing it before Apple and often better, they just weren't as good at selling it.

Where's your proof? For example, what system had GUI before early Macs?

Now, back to the news story, basically, there's no reason to suspect either Samsung or Apple is guilty of plagiarism. It's essentially a case of corporate warfare, by which I mean Apply wanted to muscle in on more of the market. If they can do that legally, by suing Samsung and then getting an import ban placed on Samsung, all the better. Apple did do all the things you talked about. However, they're also being massive dicks here by suing Samsung. Sinking the competition isn't cool, man.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 25, 2012,
#150
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Airight...well, they are being fucking retarded. However, that's most because they're either A) PC fanboys or Samsung fanboys or whatever OR B) they're ignorant OR C) both A and B. Of the three, B) & C) are most inexcusable. Ignorance is bad, guys!

Wow, it's like Inception for idiocy.

Now, back to the news story, basically, there's no reason to suspect either Samsung or Apple is guilty of plagiarism. It's essentially a case of corporate warfare, by which I mean Apply wanted to muscle in on more of the market. If they can do that legally, by suing Samsung and then getting an import ban placed on Samsung, all the better. Apple did do all the things you talked about. However, they're also being massive dicks here by suing Samsung. Sinking the competition isn't cool, man.

Yea I haven't thought about the market share part. Very asshole move. Frankly I don't see how Apple can suffer from not having the majority of the market. Being the underdog has great advantages.

I also suspect that this is legacy baggage stemming from Steve Jobs because he took it personally when Larry Page started supporting Android. I hope down the line Apple won't feel obligated to carry out his personal vendetta.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Aug 25, 2012,
#151
Quote by Xiaoxi
Wow, it's like Inception for idiocy.

That was the point.


Yea I haven't thought about the market share part. Very asshole move. Frankly I don't see how Apple can suffer from not having the majority of the market. Being the underdog has great advantages.

I also suspect that this is legacy baggage stemming from Steve Jobs because he took it personally when Larry Page started supporting Android. I hope down the line Apple won't feel obligated to carry out his personal vendetta.
That's why it's bullshit. We know Jobs had some vendetta. A company should never mix personal and business. They also shouldn't be assholes about having more of the market.
#152
Quote by Xiaoxi
So enlighten me. Give some concrete examples.

GUI - Xerox Alto
Music - Ritmoteca.com and winamp each predate iEquivalent by about 4 years respectively. I don't even like winamp and its still better than itunes.
Internet - essentially this
Tablet - Intel and Microsoft both beat Apple to the punch by a decade, they were successful but were aimed at the corporate market so they didn't go ballistic.

unfortunately none of these products were marketed as padding for your social status so they didn't catch on.
#153
Quote by Diamond Dave


Music - Ritmoteca.com and winamp each predate iEquivalent by about 4 years respectively. I don't even like winamp and its still better than itunes.

winamp does not allow you to purchase music. Having to use a separate website, rather than just using a store interface inside the program, is clunky and something most people won't do. People like easy, not clunky.

Quote by Diamond Dave
Internet - essentially this

Again, a clunky system. Even my cheapass flip phone has internet (and I've had it since before Apple iPhones were released); however, it was clunky as hell.

Quote by Diamond Dave
Tablet - Intel and Microsoft both beat Apple to the punch by a decade, they were successful but were aimed at the corporate market so they didn't go ballistic.

And guess what? iPads are the first commercially successful system. Also, I've used Microsoft tablets. They're not as well done as Apple iPads.

Quote by Diamond Dave
unfortunately none of these products were marketed as padding for your social status so they didn't catch on.
No, they just weren't as well designed.

Edit:
And, for the record, I'm in computer science, and I prefer PCs over Macs. Why? Simple; high-end PCs have more processing power, on the whole than high-end Macs. So, you see where my bias is.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 25, 2012,
#154
Quote by Diamond Dave
GUI - Xerox Alto
Music - Ritmoteca.com and winamp each predate iEquivalent by about 4 years respectively. I don't even like winamp and its still better than itunes.
Internet - essentially this
Tablet - Intel and Microsoft both beat Apple to the punch by a decade, they were successful but were aimed at the corporate market so they didn't go ballistic.

unfortunately none of these products were marketed as padding for your social status so they didn't catch on.

Oh boy this is gonna be fun

Xerox Alto - I even said in the first page that Jobs stole the GUI concept from visiting Xerox. However, the Xerox Alto was not successful because it was A PIECE OF CRAP. The hardware couldn't handle it.

Ritmoteca - The only legitimate example of poorly marketed, but promising service at the wrong place and time.
Winamp - Winamp doesn't do online purchasing.
The combined factor of both the distribution and the form factor is what makes iTunes and iPod successful. Either by itself would've failed.

Internet - So you're honestly telling me you'd rather use that than a touch based Android/iOS phone? Yea, didn't think so.

Tablet - I thought "Surely, he wouldn't use the Microsoft tablet as an example. No one's that stupid."

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Aug 25, 2012,
#155
Quote by Xiaoxi

You know, when I was studying engineering (I switch degrees a couple years back), my school at the time gave us all Tablets with Windows 7 on them. They weren't even true tablets. Essentially, you swiveled the screen around, and it locked into place. You then had this clunky system that allowed you to draw on the prof's powerpoint or write up your lecture notes. The funny thing was, you were better off using a paper notebook, because it was lighter and more convenient.
#156
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
winamp does not allow you to purchase music. Having to use a separate website, rather than just using a store interface inside the program, is clunky and something most people won't do. People like easy, not clunky.

it wasn't clunky, it was awesome. Clunky is having to redownload a 70mb installer each time Apple decide to update itunes.


Again, a clunky system. Even my cheapass flip phone has internet (and I've had it since before Apple iPhones were released); however, it was clunky as hell.

nice assumption, but the browser in that thing was awesome. I had one before the iPhone came out and loved it


And guess what? iPads are the first commercially successful system. Also, I've used Microsoft tablets. They're not as well done as Apple iPads.

classic america, success is measured by the number in the totals column. Personally I'll take my complete Windows system over an angry birds console that I can get emails on. Might even use my USB ports too seeing as I like to be able to do what I want with my devices.

No, they just weren't as well designed.

that's just blatantly not true. I knew a guy in junior high school who had a palm pilot that did everything and more that any smart phone these days could do and he got laughed off the face of the planet. But its cool to have an iPhone... go figure
#157
Quote by Xiaoxi
Oh boy this is gonna be fun

Xerox Alto - I even said in the first page that Jobs stole the GUI concept from visiting Xerox. However, the Xerox Alto was not successful because it was A PIECE OF CRAP. The hardware couldn't handle it.

Ritmoteca - The only legitimate example of poorly marketed, but promising service at the wrong place and time.
Winamp - Winamp doesn't do online purchasing.
The combined factor of both the distribution and the form factor is what makes iTunes and iPod successful. Either by itself would've failed.

Internet - So you're honestly telling me you'd rather use that than a touch based Android/iOS phone? Yea, didn't think so.

Tablet - I thought "Surely, he wouldn't use the Microsoft tablet as an example. No one's that stupid."

The Xerox Alto was never released commercially, so 'success' would have to be measured in other ways. Like it was the platform the fist WYSIWYG word processors were built on.
That's innovation.
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#158
Quote by slapsymcdougal
The Xerox Alto was never released commercially, so 'success' would have to be measured in other ways. Like it was the platform the fist WYSIWYG word processors were built on.
That's innovation.

Woops I was thinking of the Star.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#159
Quote by Xiaoxi
Woops I was thinking of the Star.

Very possibly.
It's worth noting that the first iteration of most technology is crap in almost every way.
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#160
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Very possibly.
It's worth noting that the first iteration of most technology is crap in almost every way.

Sure, but that goes back to what I'm saying. Apple has never invented anything. They just enter effectively at the right time when the technology is ready. But in doing so, they are undeniably game changers on several fronts. Trying to argue against that is just futile.

Of course, all this goes back to the point that they're assholes for suing. But just now I've also just realized...has Samsung done anything truly innovative? Have they taken what Apple has made and take it to the next level? That, I don't think they have, and is probably the only legitimate grounds that Apple has to do this.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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