#1
Currently I'm using a Jet City 2x12 Cab, and I'm looking into picking up a 4x12 so that I can get more sound projection at gigs. My band has been playing un-mic'd gigs more often, which can be problematic for hearing yourself when you're anywhere that's not in front of your amp. I just recently found out that Egnater is releasing a High Gain series of amps and with those, they're releasing cabinets. Now, the cab that goes with my amp has "Custom Voiced Celestion Elite-75" speakers, but the HG series cabs have Celestion Vintage 30's. I know V30's are basically industry standard speakers for Metal, and I've always wanted a 4x12 with an X pattern of those and Celestion G12 K-100's. Now, if I get the V30 loaded cab, I can take the extra speakers and put them in my 2x12 as an upgrade for those speakers if I decide to put the K-100s in. However, would I be better off getting the Cab that is supposed to be voiced for my amp?
#2
Quote by Blktiger0
I know V30's are basically industry standard speakers for Metal, and I've always wanted a 4x12 with an X pattern of those and Celestion G12 K-100's


many people like that mix. i'd say that would be a great setup. i never like the V30's much but i used G12K-85's for years, i have played them mixed together and it is a favorable setup.

Quote by Blktiger0
Now, if I get the V30 loaded cab, I can take the extra speakers and put them in my 2x12 as an upgrade for those speakers if I decide to put the K-100s in.


sure, the one thing you'd need to be conscious of is the impedance of the speakers. just make sure you do your calcs and pick the wiring necessary to facilitate you amp.

http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/2x12wiring.html

http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/4x12wiring.html

Quote by Blktiger0
However, would I be better off getting the Cab that is supposed to be voiced for my amp?


screw that, get a cab that is voiced for You. i got a stock PPC212, liked the V30's for a couple weeks and decided i needed something else, so i loaded it up with a couple of webers and never looked back.

some manufacturers actually do 'match' the speakers with an amp pretty well, most just use V30's and are done with it. either way, i would fully expect any guitarist to spend some time and effort finding the speakers they like with their head.
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#3
Quote by gumbilicious
screw that, get a cab that is voiced for You. i got a stock PPC212, liked the V30's for a couple weeks and decided i needed something else, so i loaded it up with a couple of webers and never looked back.



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#4
Or ...... you could just stick your 2x12 on a milk crate.
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#5
I agree with everything Gumbi said, as usual.
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#6
i built a platform out of 1x10's with a 1 inch angle facing up for my 2x12 and it did the trick as fas as projection goes
#7
you need to know what impedance those v30s are. g12k100s are only available in 8 ohm impedance, so you really want the v30s to be 8 ohm as well. (fell foul of this myself which is why i haven't tried the g12k100)
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#8
Quote by Dave_Mc
you need to know what impedance those v30s are. g12k100s are only available in 8 ohm impedance, so you really want the v30s to be 8 ohm as well. (fell foul of this myself which is why i haven't tried the g12k100)


wow, no kidding.

looks like there are a few K-100's at 16 ohms, but they seem to be OEM products. so you gotta be some huge buyer to get them.

if you wanna still give it a try, i'd say find a set of older G12K-85's, they are much easier to find at 16 ohm. in fact, i know someone right now with four 16 ohm G12K-85's he may be looking to get rid of.
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#9
^ oh ok
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#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
you need to know what impedance those v30s are. g12k100s are only available in 8 ohm impedance, so you really want the v30s to be 8 ohm as well. (fell foul of this myself which is why i haven't tried the g12k100)


I'm pretty sure the V30 cab is 16 ohms, which means they're all 16 ohm speakers in Series Parallel...I don't think there's a way to get 16 ohms overall with 4 8 ohm speakers, is there?
#11
^ not that i'm aware of. or at least not easily. Yeah a 16 ohm cab is, odds, are, four 16 ohm v30s in series parallel (or parallel series ). I guess it could also be four 4 ohm speakers all in series.

but yeah that's the trouble i ran into too, my 4x12 is 16 ohms.
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#12
Maybe I'll just stick with all V-30's. I mean, considering if I'm mic'd up it'll only be one speaker anyway, I'll only be getting my true tone when I'm not mic'd.

Here are links for the two cabs:

http://www.egnateramps.com/EgnaterProducts/Vengeance/Vengeance412A.html

http://www.egnateramps.com/EgnaterProducts/HGSeries/HGSeriesSelector.html
^I'm looking at the HG-412A
#13
If you're buying cabs, ALWAYS go used. There's hardly anything prone to failing inside of one, and warranties are pointless, considering they can usually be fixed in 30min by yourself for less than $10, and the chances of something going wrong are VERY slim.

Look for a used Marshall 1960av. They're loaded with V30's and can be had for cheap.
#14
If you don't mind the aesthetics, you'd probably be better off from a financial standpoint just getting an Avatar 4x12 with the speaker combo you want.
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#15
On the speaker topic, has anyone done a V30/V30/K100/T75 4x12? That seems like it would be a nice full range cab.
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#16
before you buy any speakers retail, check out WGS. they make a lot of celestion clones and unlike china made celestion, WGS are made in the USA. imo they are a better sounding speaker, and in many times tehy have various wattage offerings and tweak the speakers to correct complaints (like not make the veteran 30 / v30 clone so ice picky)

_________

personally, portability is big and i hate 4x12s. i would find the best sounding speakers with the highest SPL i could get and loud em in a closed back 2x12.

i would seal the back of my avatar and load it with like eminence wizards (popular and 103 SPL).

103 SPL compared to standards like 95 and 98 is a MASSIVE difference. big enough to beef up your cab and stand out in the mix.

in fact - i dont think i would use wizards in my amp at home because they would be louder, and my amp is already turned down so darn much.
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Last edited by ikey_ at Sep 7, 2012,
#17
If your getting a 4x12, your going to need a trolley!

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#18
Have you actually tried sticking your 2x12 on a milk crate? There's a good reason people stick their amps on crates or stands. Your problem is probably less of a number of speakers issue than it is a matter of speaker placement.
Even better get yourself an angled amp stand. They are a bit of a pita with a head/cab though because you have to sit the head underneath the amp or beside it.
But seriously, before you go spending a heap of money, try simply getting what you have off the ground.
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#19
Portability is no concern of mine. I'm a rather large, beefy individual, and I have no problems carrying large weights like that. My last job was making 1-piece vinyl bus floors, which consisted of 2 sides that were 92 pounds each when rolled up, and the floor was usually around 250lbs, and we had o move those around all day. Hell, I normally transport my 2x12 and head at the same time, one in each hand.

The reason I was looking at these two cabs is I would like to get an Egnater cab so that my head and cab match. I would rather buy new in this case, because then I'm supporting the company, whereas buying used doesn't do them any good. It bothers me that Americans are so obsessed with buying used, then bitch about the economy. It sucks because you have to spend more money and maybe wait longer, but it'll suck more when the company goes out of business due to lack of sales. The automobile industry is a great example of this. However, amp companies aren't going to be getting a government bailout.

ikey, thanks for the suggestion, but if I want V30's, I'm most likely going to just get the real thing. I'm not 100% decided on them, but if I don't get the real thing, there's always gonna be that doubt in my head that they aren't the same and sound difference and are inferior. I'll look into them still, for sure, but I'm not gonna buy a clone just because it's a clone. However, if I hear samples/demos and am digging the WGS sound more, I'll probably go with them. The fact that they attempt to improve upon the original is an interesting idea. I have considered Eminence, and when I was looking into them, I believe I was considering a Wizard/Swamp Thang X pattern. However, I'm concerned about going too bassy because our bassist is currently having issues cutting through the mix. I'll wait for that issue to play out before I decide, though.

Thanks, for the replies, guys. There's a lot of good info here...keep it coming!

If it helps at all, my biggest issue with the JCA Cab is that it's a bit heavy on the lower-mids, pretty bass-heavy, and almost a bit muddy sometimes. I'm fairly certain it's the cab from using the direct out on the back, but come to think of it, my band's other guitarist has a Mesa Rectoverb and Mesa 2x12, and if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Mesa exclusively use V30's for their Recto Cabs? If so, I'm stupid and should have tried his cab months ago...
#20
Quote by Cathbard
Have you actually tried sticking your 2x12 on a milk crate? There's a good reason people stick their amps on crates or stands. Your problem is probably less of a number of speakers issue than it is a matter of speaker placement.
Even better get yourself an angled amp stand. They are a bit of a pita with a head/cab though because you have to sit the head underneath the amp or beside it.
But seriously, before you go spending a heap of money, try simply getting what you have off the ground.


I've got industrial casters screwed to my cab that would make that risky, but they get it off of the ground a good 4 inches or so. I want a second cab anyway, and like I said in my last post, I kinda want an Egnater cabinet. on top of that, it would be nice to have a cab I could just leave in our practice space. My band is all located in Athens, whereas I'm in the Marietta area (about 45 mins away) and we would be meeting there for any practices or gigs, so if I could leave my 4x12 there, it would actually cut down on gear transportation. I also like the look of a 4x12 as opposed to a 2x12, and I would eventually like to have a full-stack just because they look badass. I realize sound is more important, but if I can get both, I would rather do that. Nothing looks as cool as walking back to your stack and getting in a wide stance right up to it to get feedback, then tearing off a sexy lick with tons of sustain. Considering my band strives to be known for our energetic, interesting, and badass stage performance, it's an important thing for us. I would rather get the functionality and look than to get functionality while looking more ghetto than we already do.

However, I'm probably gonna try to elevate it on something until I upgrade.
#21
4 inches isn't enough. You need to get it closer to your ears. One of the reasons that so many of us use milk crates is that they are normally narrow enough to fit between the casters.

I am a 4x12 ***** too, in fact my favourite gigging rig was a 6x12 and yes, that was mainly because of feedback reasons. So I am not telling you that there is anything wrong with wanting a 4x12 but do try getting your current cab way off the ground. It's amazing what a difference it can make. It isn't going to cost you anything to try it.
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#22
^ +1

toward the end of it's time with me, my 4x12 was used exclusively to set my 2x12 on top of. never even plugged it in. ear level amps are good for +10 dB of perceived volume.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

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#23
The inverse square law is often overlooked.
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#24
Quote by Cathbard
4 inches isn't enough. You need to get it closer to your ears. One of the reasons that so many of us use milk crates is that they are normally narrow enough to fit between the casters.

I am a 4x12 ***** too, in fact my favourite gigging rig was a 6x12 and yes, that was mainly because of feedback reasons. So I am not telling you that there is anything wrong with wanting a 4x12 but do try getting your current cab way off the ground. It's amazing what a difference it can make. It isn't going to cost you anything to try it.


Oh, I agree completely. It's something that hasn't become a problem until recently, and I simply forgot about the idea of elevating it. Would it do me just as much good if I just turned it on it's side, or should I get it completely off of the ground? My only thing with turning it sideways is that then my head is awkwardly hanging off of each side of the cab. The only reason I ask is that I'm not sure where I would go to get a milk crate in this area, since I recently moved.

A somewhat off-topic question:
Our bassist is having issues in our mix. His amp has the ability to tilt back. Would that help him at all? I know it'll be louder to him, since it's pointing at his head, but will it actually improve the crowd's perception? I've honestly wondered if it might not be counter-productive in that situation. If not, we're definitely going to look into getting him something to elevate his amp, but that thing is the heaviest damn thing I've seen in terms of amps. (It's a 1x15 combo) We're adjusting the EQ, but I haven't been to practice since we last discussed it, so I don't know how that's going yet.
#25
Being on its side will help but the best solution is to stick it on its side on top of a crate.

The crowd shouldn't be listening to the amp - that's the PA's job. You're doing it wrong.
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#27
Quote by Cathbard
Being on its side will help but the best solution is to stick it on its side on top of a crate.

The crowd shouldn't be listening to the amp - that's the PA's job. You're doing it wrong.


I only have issues at un-mic'd gigs. Any mic'd gigs we play have monitors.
#28
You can get an Avatar cab with custom color, grill, and speaker set-up for $600. I would recomend checking them out.
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#29
Quote by Blktiger0
I only have issues at un-mic'd gigs. Any mic'd gigs we play have monitors.

If you have issues then you mike it up. Everybody should own some sort of foldback rig, even if it's just a powered wedge or two. Then even if the venue cheaps out on the foldback you are set to go. Even the cheapest desk will have some sort of monitor output you can use to feed it.
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#30
Quote by bassmastamitch
On the speaker topic, has anyone done a V30/V30/K100/T75 4x12? That seems like it would be a nice full range cab.


it might sound awesome but i'd be concerned of having too many speakers sounding like a mess...

i ran my texas heat alongside my red white and blues and screamin eagle 2x12, and i didn't much like the sound. Now... granted the TH is 16, and the other 2x12 cab was 16 ohm too (so twice the power was going to the TH as the other two individual speakers... hardly a fair test, in other words), and maybe those speakers just didn't match... but yeah, i mean you hardly see anyone mixing and matching more than two types of speaker. I'm guessing for a good reason.

actually if i get round to it i must try some other mixes of more than two types of speaker. It'll be several days before i get round to that, though.

Quote by ikey_
before you buy any speakers retail, check out WGS. they make a lot of celestion clones and unlike china made celestion, WGS are made in the USA.


I'd say it's debatable whether they're "made" in the USA or "assembled". Just to point that out, I haven't tried them or anything (and am seriously considering the et65 currently ).
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 8, 2012,
#31
Quote by Cathbard
If you have issues then you mike it up. Everybody should own some sort of foldback rig, even if it's just a powered wedge or two. Then even if the venue cheaps out on the foldback you are set to go. Even the cheapest desk will have some sort of monitor output you can use to feed it.


We don't have the equipment necessary to Mic it up, and some of our venues don't have PA systems that would allow us to mic up. One of the venues we frequent just recently got some half-assed monitors. Before that, we had to rely completely on what we could hear where we were standing. Us hauling our own PA or monitoring equipment with micing equipment probably isn't an option at the moment, especially since the rest of the band is pretty low on funding.