Darth_Pietrus
I like bewbs
Join date: Jun 2010
504 IQ
#1
So Im currently studying ICT but dont have a real passion for it. My real passion is music (metal). Either playing it or writing it. Ive written a few songs and have had positive feedback from my friends.
Becoming a famous musician in a band is easier said than done but becoming a producer seems like a more doable option to me. So I was wondering how does one become a (metal) producer? You can study music production/dj but as the name suggests, this is a very pop/techno kind of course and is all about writing the next big radio hit, which I dont want. I want to produce metal!
So does anyone have any experience or knowledge in this matter? Is it even necessary to have a sort of degree in music production to become a producer? (I live in the Netherlands if that helps)

Thanks for any help
Hydra150
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Join date: Nov 2006
1,793 IQ
#2
I geuss you should learn how to work with recording technology (become friends with the people in the recording forum) and get in touch with studios in your area to see if they are looking for someone to train as an engineer or anything. Or study music in college.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
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and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
J-Dawg158
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Join date: Nov 2008
154 IQ
#3
First off you have to be a good producer. If you can't do a good job with phenomenal results, then why would anyone ever wanna pay you money to produce their album? The big names in the business get all of the work because they have proven that they can produce top-quality albums.

Secondly, and this applies to life in general. It doesn't matter what you're educated in all people care about are can you give them the results they expect. That's why employers are gonna pick the high school drop-out that's been in the business for 30 years vs. the guy that's fresh out of college 90% of the time.

Scoring a producing job is probably just about as hard as becoming a successful rock star in itself. If you wanna work for a studio then you had better have an impressive resume with lot's of successful albums under your belt otherwise you'll have to settle for whatever position they're willing to offer you.

If you decide to go freelance then it's the same deal except now you're peddling yourself to the artist directly, which will include the same problems every small business faces: How will you compete with the big names in the business? Why should artists come to you to produce? Will you give them the results they want? What experience do you have?

It's just like any other job. You either have to work your way up from the bottom and scrape together a good reputation of turning out quality work, or of course be the progeny of someone already successful in the field.

I hate to be such a downer, but that is the reality of the "real world" dude.
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Darth_Pietrus
I like bewbs
Join date: Jun 2010
504 IQ
#4
OK thanks. So basically its a self-taught kind of thing and you have to get the word out yourself.
I'll see what I can do
J-Dawg158
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Join date: Nov 2008
154 IQ
#5
Well, its not really so much of a teach yourself kind of thing as it is a you have to prove yourself first kind of thing. At least if you want to be a professional producer. It's one of those jobs that there's no definite way to get into it. Like a CEO of a company, not very many people will just walk into a position like that. I mean you can get all the gear and start "producing" but that's like starting your own business which I touched on in my previous post. Best of luck to you man. If its what you really want to do then all you can do is just keep at it.
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GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
Join date: Nov 2001
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#6
I'm going to play the bad guy for a minute...
Quote by Darth_Pietrus
Ive written a few songs and have had positive feedback from my friends.

Have you had feedback from anyone who isn't a friend/family? People like that aren't always the best to get opinions from.

Have you posted anything in the recordings forum? You'll get some honest feedback from people who don't feel obliged to compliment you.

The advice in the posts above is all good, but it means nothing if you aren't as good as you think you are. Look at it this way:
On any of the Simon Cowell shows, there are always 100s of people who audition that are absolutely terrible, but have spent their lives believing when family & friends say they're good because they don't want to hurt them. When they go on those shows in front of millions of people, it's the first time they've ever been given a genuinely honest opinion of their talent.

Now I'll move along and go back to being the nice person I usually am...
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z4twenny
UG's resident Psychopath
Join date: Nov 2005
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#7
What Gary said. The only reason I have my recordings posted on UG is to get honest feedback on my compositions (I know the mixing / production isn't too hot but that's not what I'm looking for)
Darth_Pietrus
I like bewbs
Join date: Jun 2010
504 IQ
#8
Yeah I know friends tend to do this, but atleast one of my friends seems to really like it. He actually learned the song and plays it when he is bored and offered to write lyrics for it. But I want to get some real guitars on the track before I post in on UG or Youtube, because right now its purely VST's and MIDI.
Darth_Pietrus
I like bewbs
Join date: Jun 2010
504 IQ
#10
But yeah, right now Im doing this as a Hobby and have only really just started working with Fruity Loops and such.
You're free to check out my non metal compositions.
They have basically no views but whatever:

http://www.youtube.com/user/PFrankefortMusic?feature=mhee

My passion is music and so Id love to do something with it for my career, wether it be producer or songwriter or bandmember etc. But we will see ^^
Hydra150
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Join date: Nov 2006
1,793 IQ
#11
Have you thought about going to college to do this stuff?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Darth_Pietrus
I like bewbs
Join date: Jun 2010
504 IQ
#12
Well here (the Netherlands) you do have a "rock" academy but its all pop. I think maybe its best to continue with my current study and work on my music as a side thing.
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
1,793 IQ
#13
Quote by Darth_Pietrus

My passion is music and so Id love to do something with it for my career, wether it be producer or songwriter or bandmember etc.

Quote by Darth_Pietrus
I think maybe its best to continue with my current study and work on my music as a side thing.

Good luck with that.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
mrkeka
Lost in Translation
Join date: Aug 2006
195 IQ
#14
From my personal experience, the best thing to do would be to try and get an internship, or became an assistant to a established studio or producer... that way you get experience, contacts, and so on and so forth
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corza334
Registered User
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#15
you do have a "rock" academy but its all pop.





Practice Practice Practice
Quite impressive for a cripple.
AlanHB
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Join date: Aug 2008
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#16
Start on the local scene with smaller groups, and work up from there. Beware, even a "small-time" producer has easily $100,000 of gear around. Hope you've got some cash saved up.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#17
Start sweeping floors at a studio and work your way up from there

and...

"Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps"
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stringzzz
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2006
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#18
Start sweeping floors at a studio and work your way up from there

I totally agree. Nobody is going to hire you without a track record. Do what ever you can, work for free.

If you have a chance to take a production course, do it! Who cares if the main focus is pop, this is all about having a starting point and making connections. Be more open minded before you close doors that could help you.

Also, most big time producers are accomplished musicians. You have to be able to make suggestions that will make a recording better. If "guitar track 3" is out of tune, you need to be able to hear it. You may have to re write a section of a tune, etc...

If this is what you want to do, just get started and don't let anything stand in your way.
AlanHB
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Join date: Aug 2008
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#19
Quote by ^^^
If you have a chance to take a production course, do it! Who cares if the main focus is pop, this is all about having a starting point and making connections. Be more open minded before you close doors that could help you.


This is a very good point. Nobody got anywhere by limiting their options. If you're the sort of guy who would turn down 1 million dollars to mix One Direction because they're "ghey", then perhaps you're best keeping music as a hobby, where you can be as picky as you want.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
Join date: Oct 2007
5,773 IQ
#20
Start producing.

Don't hesitate.

Nothing better than real world experience, you don't NEED to do a production course, it helps sure, but you don't have to wait till you do one before starting.

Just don't expect to be able to make a living off it unless you're insanely good at it.
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pinguinpanic
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2007
961 IQ
#21
Quote by Darth_Pietrus
Well here (the Netherlands) you do have a "rock" academy but its all pop. I think maybe its best to continue with my current study and work on my music as a side thing.


I'm pretty much doing the same thing as you, studying ICT/Software Science and trying to get somewhere with production on the site. I'd say just start producing if you want to be a producer. That's pretty much all there is to it. Get gear and get going. Also a very usefull information resource for learning to be a metal producer would be the Andy Sneap forums. It's a forum with lots of profesional metal producers. People that make money by doing it, and doing it good. There's a lot to learn.
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axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#22
I keep posting this same comment every now and again, but it's still relevant.


About music production and engineering....

First, there are studios closing down daily because the market is just not there anymore to support many of them. Your potential number of employers is dwindling all the time, and those people who had jobs at those studios (and therefore experience) will be competing with you looking for work at the handful that are still standing.

Second, most real-world studios don't care that much if you have qualifications on paper. They look at what your track record is. What have you done? Can I hear your work? That sort of thing. Someone whose work speaks for itself without training will get the job pretty much every time over someone whose work is okay who has training.

By extension of both of those, most studios don't put out ads "wanted: studio engineer." They take advantage of their existing set of contacts and connections and fish from that pond. It is very much a business of who you know.

So.... given all that, the best way of getting a job at a major studio is:
1. Show up at their door and introduce yourself. Do this many times if necessary. Be a polite, cordial, eager and pleasant pain in the ass. You're not there for a job yet. You're volunteering to make coffee, vacuum carpets, be a gopher when someone in a band needs smokes, water plants, whatever. In return, all you ask is for the chance to watch a few sessions so you can start learning some stuff.
2. Once your foot is in the door, be the best coffee maker, carpet vacuumer, corner-store runner you can. It shows you're worth the effort for them to have you around. They'll start to like you and be more willing to let you watch. They'll even teach you the proper way to wind cables.
3. Eventually, you'll be given jobs like setting up mics and moving them around the room as the engineer tells you what to do - "closer... closer.... back it off a bit... now left... "

Little jobs at a time, and you'll be trained on site by the people who know what they are doing. It won't cost you anything but time.

As they get confidence in your knowledge, reliability, etc., there will come a time when the studio makes some concession to band where they'll give them a cut rate if they're willing to come in at 6:00am and work with one of their interns. That would be you. Maybe it will come up as one of the regular studio assistants is sick, or quits, or whatever, and you'll get called up to help out. Sure, you're last picked, but at least you're picked.

You'll start noticing that other people with genuine credentials are sending in their resumees. The studio, already with a full complement of staff, including interns, assistants, lackeys, etc. does not typically call those applicants back.

CT

PS. Just in case you're thinking that I'm one of those "anti-education.... school is no good for anything" kind of people, I have a degree in music and teach in a school... so no. I'm *very* pro-education. I'm also very practical, and that means taking the steps you *really* need to get there rather than assuming that a piece of paper will be your ticket.
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
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#23
Quote by Darth_Pietrus
but as the name suggests, this is a very pop/techno kind of course and is all about writing the next big radio hit, which I dont want. I want to produce metal!


Your language here suggests that the program you are in will not offer you anything appreciable that you'll be able to use towards achieving your goal.

There's your first mistake.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
Join date: Nov 2001
1,309 IQ
#24
Quote by axemanchris
I keep posting this same comment every now and again, but it's still relevant.

Keep posting it - it's a good post.
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Gibson LP Traditional, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm > TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H

My SoundCloud
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#25
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.