#1
Just wanted to get some opinions on the singer for my band. I have been told by people that he is a bad singer. Personally I don't hear it, sure he's not the best, but i think he is far from bad. I've also had other people tell me they liked his voice though. So lets just put it at he is a below average singer. But he is a terrific frontman. He'll dress up, he uses the stage well, he gets the audience into it. So I'm just curious if you would rather have the mediocre singer, but great frontman. Or great singer and bad frontman, someone like Maynard maybe? Here's some of our songs if you want to hear him http://soundcloud.com/lostfrequency
#2
No problem there mate, havent listened yet but Mick Jagger isnt a great singer but one of the best frontmen of all time. also i think that now more than ever the live show is the most important thing for a band - so better to be good on stage than in the studio.

You should be glad to have a singer with that kind of prescence coz they dont come around often!
#3
Dude, he's not a bad singer at all. The Singer from Mars Volta is an awful singer but a perfect frontman, me myself i'm a really really bad singer but i'm a frontman of a band that i judge 'Individualistic' http://soundcloud.com/the-strings-pullers
so don't pay attention to such crap dude.. your music rules.
#4
I agree with what's been said in that a great stage presence is far more important then a great voice, but he actually has a pretty good voice. He does seem to have a problem hitting his notes though. He's often a bit flat on those tracks, which makes my ears cringe, but I'm hoping I'm just a bit sensitive to that stuff.

Definitely a keeper, but he should really put some work into his technical ability.
#5
I am all for the big crazy frontman thing but seriously this guy is awful he sings flat on most of the tracks you posted. If you have a lot folks already telling you this at your shows id be on the lookout for someone better. I guess it depends on how serious the project is if you guys wanna go somewhere with it he will defo need some vocal coaching or the alternative find someone else. The thing to remember is you guys are all investing time and money into the band you should not be afraid to voice your opinions if there's any part of it that is lacking or not up to par. So many times band members are too passive about things like this. If i were in your band it would be something id have to speak out about.
Last edited by SHaun Steel at Sep 18, 2012,
#7
Woah. This guy just can't really sing at all...
Sarcasm. Because beating the crap out of people is illegal.
#8
He's close to his notes but often is just a bit flat. I'd say suggest lessons but that never really goes well. With a couple lessons I'd bet he could get way better in no time. The people saying he can't sing are being to harsh, he would sound good if he were on pitch all the time.

Yeah, the flat notes is a problem.
#9
Quote by RealUnrealRob
The people saying he can't sing are being to harsh, he would sound good if he were on pitch all the time.

Yeah...everyone would be a good singer, if they were on pitch all the time. If you aren't on pitch, you can't sing...
Sarcasm. Because beating the crap out of people is illegal.
#10
I can't listen to your tracks because I'm currently at work. However, if your singer is as flat as some people are suggesting, could you not try and determine what his actualy vocal range is, and write new songs to suit his range, whilst transposing your current songs into a key he can sing in more comfortably? For example, loads of bands use lower tunings to help out their singer. GN'R only tuned half a step down to help out Axl. My band's previous singer had similar things said about him and I think, like you, whilst people do have a point, he isn't as bad as they made out. I just think our songs weren't always in his range. If I could go back in time, I would've suggested what I've said in this post to my band.
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#11
Ha just like always, I have some people saying he is awful and others saying he's not bad. Like I said I don't think he's terrible, but he could definitely benefit from some singing lessons. It's pretty hard to tell someone to get singing lessons though.

There is no way I would get rid of him though. Just finding a singer period is hard enough. And he has turned out to be a great friend, a great bandmate, and a great frontman. I have suggested tuning down a half step before, but for some reason we never did it. Maybe I'll suggest it again.

The biggest critics of his voice are my parents, who constantly tell me he is almost un listenable. Which really gets to me because I value their opinions, and would hope they would be more on the kinder side of critiquing the band.
#12
Quote by TNA
The biggest critics of his voice are my parents, who constantly tell me he is almost un listenable. Which really gets to me because I value their opinions, and would hope they would be more on the kinder side of critiquing the band.
Listening to your tracks, I definitely think you mostly just need to work out his vocal range and accommodate for it. He can hit some of the notes but does fall quite flat a lot of the time. He could defo do with doing some vocal practices/training but in many songs it sounds to me like he's straining.

Song by song:

Feelin: Sorry, but the vocals are really flat in this. He pulls of some of the higher, short notes (with delay on them) but mainly is out of tune.

Ship: The verses are sketchy but the choruses are okay. It sounds like he sings in the same register for the whole song, even though the verse and chorus are different.

Wake Me Up: Sounds fine to me. Could be a bit tighter in parts but I've heard a lot worse.

Fly Away: His voice is flat but it sounds like he can hit the proper notes at points. I don't know whether it is just out of his range, or that he doesn't think he's off key.

Travelin' Eyes: Seems okay to me. Again, could be tighter but not a bad performance.

Lastly, I can see your parent's point of view. Your singer does sing flat quite a lot. If he's the same live, it would be rather unpleasant. But, I've also noticed most non-musical people seem to be a lot more critical of singers than any other people in a band. This is because most people focus on the singing, not the instruments, as they can relate to singing the most. There's a lot of room for improvement/progression with your singer. I don't think your singer has a bad voice. He just doesn't have the range for most of your songs. Also, does he know/admit when he sings flat? If not, perhaps some ear training would help too. If he doesn't realise/think he's singing flat, he won't try and change how he sings.

tl;dr: I think most of the problem lies with his vocal range and maybe his musical ear (or lack thereof). Try transposing your songs to keys you know he can sing in. e.g. Wake Me Up and Travelin' Eyes are in his range. and see how you get on. There is hope for him yet. Good luck!
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Last edited by G-Dog_666 at Sep 18, 2012,
#13
Quote by G-Dog_666
Listening to your tracks, I definitely think you mostly just need to work out his vocal range and accommodate for it. He can hit some of the notes but does fall quite flat a lot of the time. He could defo do with doing some vocal practices/training but in many songs it sounds to me like he's straining.

Song by song:

Feelin: Sorry, but the vocals are really flat in this. He pulls of some of the higher, short notes (with delay on them) but mainly is out of tune.

Ship: The verses are sketchy but the choruses are okay. It sounds like he sings in the same register for the whole song, even though the verse and chorus are different.

Wake Me Up: Sounds fine to me. Could be a bit tighter in parts but I've heard a lot worse.

Fly Away: His voice is flat but it sounds like he can hit the proper notes at points. I don't know whether it is just out of his range, or that he doesn't think he's off key.

Travelin' Eyes: Seems okay to me. Again, could be tighter but not a bad performance.

Lastly, I can see your parent's point of view. Your singer does sing flat quite a lot. If he's the same live, it would be rather unpleasant. But, I've also noticed most non-musical people seem to be a lot more critical of singers than any other people in a band. This is because most people focus on the singing, not the instruments, as they can relate to singing the most. There's a lot of room for improvement/progression with your singer. I don't think your singer has a bad voice. He just doesn't have the range for most of your songs. Also, does he know/admit when he sings flat? If not, perhaps some ear training would help too. If he doesn't realise/think he's singing flat, he won't try and change how he sings.

tl;dr: I think most of the problem lies with his vocal range and maybe his musical ear (or lack thereof). Try transposing your songs to keys you know he can sing in. e.g. Wake Me Up and Travelin' Eyes are in his range. and see how you get on. There is hope for him yet. Good luck!


Thanks, this is really helpful. I know he does take into consideration how he is singing, and will evaluate his vocal performances. He does sing outside of practice and it seems like he does make an effort to improve. Also, now that you have pointed it out again is that he really can't hear his mistakes clearly because our practice PA sucks. We can barely hear him singing at practice, so obviously that is not helping him if he can't even hear himself properly. I've been really trying to get everyone in the band to use headphones instead of the speakers that we can't hear well. I've bought everything to be able to get everyone in the band headphones to listen on but they are still resistant.
#14
Quote by TNA
.......our practice PA sucks. We can barely hear him singing at practice, so obviously that is not helping him if he can't even hear himself properly...

Yeah thats a big problem, as you said. its not helping him or the band. The only time he can hear himself is at recording sessions or gigs. I bet he just thinks "yay" about that...

Your earphones suggestion is a good one there.... or maybe you can hire a rehersal space that has a PA?
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#15
Quote by TNA
I've been really trying to get everyone in the band to use headphones instead of the speakers that we can't hear well. I've bought everything to be able to get everyone in the band headphones to listen on but they are still resistant.

You could always make a suggestion that a rehearsal is divided up into two sections: One half being a practice for stage performance, so no headphones required. The other half being one a practice to musical performance, so headphones are required. Though, ideally, I'd do the musical performace bit first so your ears aren't ringing too much.

Alternatively, you could just try practicing at a lower volume and make the drummer use his practice pads to make his drums quieter. That way you won't have to max out the PA, your singer won't have to strain his voice to try and hear himself etc. I know all about 'volume wars' between band members and singers come off the worst.

Also, since you've spent money on all the headphone equipment, would you be willing to buy one or two floor monitors for your singer? Even that would be a major help to him.

I know the above will probably not be popular with your other band mates but caring about this sort of stuff is what makes bands improve and sound better. Have they given any reason why they won't use headphones?
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Last edited by G-Dog_666 at Sep 19, 2012,
#16
Yeah, honestly all I'm getting from the three tacks I sampled is that he's pushing himself for volume. The result is something that sounds super generic, really not that interesting. It's not that he sounds bad, per se, it's that he doesn't sound good - there's no compelling positive quality to his singing.

A lot of very successful rock singers haven't been great singers, but have had a great personality - Elvis, Mick, Bono. This is even true in harder rock stuff (david lee roth never sounds like anyone other than david lee roth). But the thing is that personality isn't just about stage presence - that personality comes through the vocals even of the recorded songs.

I agree with your suggestion that you guys need to back the f off the volume. He needs to find his voice as a singer. This isn't a technical thing, really, although good techniqu will help - but unless you want him to be a generic yeller, you're pushing him too loud, too fast.

It's not about headphones. The simple truth is that you guys need to be practicing at a level where you can all hear each other, otherwise it's largely a waste of time.
#17
It's really not possible to simply lower the volume for us. We practice in a very live room at my house. I am the drummer, I don't necessarily hit hard, but a very live room and just my drums in general make for some loud drums. This forces me to ask the guitarist and bass player to turn up their amps so I can hear them. Then since our PA is not that powerful, our singer gets the bad end of the deal and nobody can hear him. Our PA simply doesn't have enough power to get loud enough over the rest of the band, we have several monitors, you just can't hear them clearly. This is why I suggested using headphones, we can turn those up as loud as we want. I usually will wear them during practice with just the singer on my headphone mix and it works great. I don't know why the other guys won't do it, they're not necessarily opposed to it, they just never seem to get around to bringing headphones, and I guess they don't mind not being able to hear the singer. It sucks that they are fine with the situation, but I'm not spending any more money on stuff for them. I own the PA, the house we practice in, all the mics, the entire bass setup.
#18
I am the drummer, I don't necessarily hit hard, but a very live room and just my drums in general make for some loud drums.


Brutal truth time.

You are the problem.

Use brushes rather than sticks and learn some technique.

Every good drummer can drum quietly.

You need to learn how to drum with high intensity but low volume. You don't know how to do this yet. That's okay.

Learning how to do this will make you a better drummer, even when you drum loud.

You have a PA. Even if it's a weak one, I don't care - the gear is not the problem.

You are the problem. If you can't figure this out on your own, take lessons and tell the teacher "I need to learn how to drum quietly, but with intensity."

Don't blame the equipment, and don't blame the room. Master your instrument.
#19
Quote by HotspurJr
Brutal truth time.

You are the problem.

Use brushes rather than sticks and learn some technique.

Every good drummer can drum quietly.

You need to learn how to drum with high intensity but low volume. You don't know how to do this yet. That's okay.

Learning how to do this will make you a better drummer, even when you drum loud.

You have a PA. Even if it's a weak one, I don't care - the gear is not the problem.

You are the problem. If you can't figure this out on your own, take lessons and tell the teacher "I need to learn how to drum quietly, but with intensity."

Don't blame the equipment, and don't blame the room. Master your instrument.


Umm No? I know how to play my instrument very well. Sure I can drum quietly, but you don't play the same if you are trying to play quietly. You certainly don't get the same feel or rebound when using brushes. That's like saying to a guitar player, ok don't strum the strings too hard, oh and use this pick made out of tissue paper. I've taken lessons from drummers who are in platinum selling bands. Sorry drums are a loud instrument and they don't have a volume control.
Last edited by TNA at Sep 20, 2012,
#20
Quote by TNA
Sorry drums are a loud instrument and they don't have a volume control.
Can you not use practice pads for part of your rehearsals to dampen your drums? You would then take up less of the sonic space in the room and the guitars and bass can alsothen be lowered in volume. I know the drums won't sound 'proper/as good' but the whole purpose is to help improve the vocals, so you shouldn't mind taking the hit for your singer. You're having band practice and they are practice pads. That isn't a coincidence. And it doesn't have to be for the whole rehearsal, just part of it.

Also, have you tried raising the monitors up to nearer your singer's ear level? Even getting some earplugs like these would probably improve his abiltiy to hear himself.

http://www.hearos.com/products/rock-n-roll

Lastly, why not simply try giving your singer the headphones you usually use? It'd be much more beneficial for him to hear himself, rather than you. It'll cost you nothing and you don't have to alter anything about your current setup.
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#21
TNA...youre gonna end up with no band...because the band sucks live....because the band cant get better in practice....because the singer cant effing hear himself. He's putting himself out there front and centre, man..... you guys need to give him every opportunity to succeed. If its impossible for you to down the volume by either adjusting your technique or using pracice pads, pillows etc....doesnt matter..the end result is that you are too loud. Sorry mate. Maybe the rest of the band can practice with a drum machine so they can control the volume? (Haha sorry mate thats a troll- I apologise )

Hes a good enough singer- he just needs to get his pitch right on each song- he cant do that if he cant hear himself
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#22
Quote by 91RG350
TNA...youre gonna end up with no band...because the band sucks live....because the band cant get better in practice....because the singer cant effing hear himself. He's putting himself out there front and centre, man..... you guys need to give him every opportunity to succeed. If its impossible for you to down the volume by either adjusting your technique or using pracice pads, pillows etc....doesnt matter..the end result is that you are too loud. Sorry mate. Maybe the rest of the band can practice with a drum machine so they can control the volume? (Haha sorry mate thats a troll- I apologise )

Hes a good enough singer- he just needs to get his pitch right on each song- he cant do that if he cant hear himself

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Your comments are coming from a guitar player, it's easy for you guys to say stuff like have better technique or use pads. Like I said before I am pretty competent at my instrument. I could just tap my drums, hold the beat, and get through the song. But then we're not really practicing the song, are we? If that's the case it might as well just be the guitar player and singer playing with a click track because that's basically what I would be reduced to. I could use pads, I have pads, but pads don't feel the same, and I didn't come to band practice to bang on some pieces of rubber. To compare it to a guitar player, it's like saying here use these rubber coated string, sure you can still play, but is it going to sound or feel right? Hell NO! Or maybe the better idea would be to have the singer invest in some gear. Like I mentioned I paid for everything we have. I bought a high end drum kit, why shouldn't the singer invest some money in a better PA system? Or even better just bring some headphones and then everyone in the band can hear him crystal clear.

I have provided solutions to be able to hear the singer better. Call me a stubborn drummer a-hole but I like to actually play my drums at band practice, which is at my house, using my PA, that is free to all my bandmates. The room we play in is completely empty with wood floors, the instrument sound really fills up that room. We've practiced at other places with a better room, and a better PA, and we could hear the singer fine. I bought that PA just to have a PA, before the band got together, I don't sing, I really have no need for that PA other than to just have it available. I even bought a headphone mixer, and several mics. I know you guys said don't blame the gear, but yes PA systems can be underpowered, it's not that uncommon.
#23
Quote by TNA
Umm No? I know how to play my instrument very well. Sure I can drum quietly, but you don't play the same if you are trying to play quietly.


No, you don't play the same.

But every good drummer on the planet can rock out quietly. Every single one.


You certainly don't get the same feel or rebound when using brushes.


No, you don't. But guess what?

Good drummers can compensate for that and still sound good.


That's like saying to a guitar player, ok don't strum the strings too hard, oh and use this pick made out of tissue paper.


Every good guitarist can play quietly without relying on turning the amp or guitar down. Every single one.

It's called mastery of your instrument.


I've taken lessons from drummers who are in platinum selling bands.


Well, take more lessons. Work on your dynamics. Pay less attention to how many records your teacher has sold and more to how good his technique is.

Every good drummer can play quietly.

For crying out loud, man - YOU HAVE A PA! It's not like I'm asking you to only play at the level of a quiet, unamplified vocal.

Oh, yeah. I've played with drummers who can do that. You know why? Because they're good drummers. The fact that you can't play quietly enough to avoid overpowering an amplified vocal is laughable.

Work on your technique.

Sorry drums are a loud instrument and they don't have a volume control.


Neither does my acoustic guitar, but I can play it loud enough to keep up with electrified instruments (within reason) or quiet enough not to overpower a singer who's whispering.

Control of dynamics is a vital part of being able to play your instrument well. You need to develop that part of your skillset.

Or you could keep doing what you're doing and eventually destroy your singers vocals. But any halfway decent singer would have left the band by now because you obviously don't know what you're doing as a drummer.

I know you guys said don't blame the gear, but yes PA systems can be underpowered, it's not that uncommon.


What you don't understand is that this is a problem that everybody who's played in a band has dealt with. Underpowered PAs are common.

You know what we all do? We adapt. We play our instruments in a way that works with the musicians we're with and the gear we have. That's what good musicians do.
Last edited by HotspurJr at Sep 22, 2012,
#24
Quote by HotspurJr
No, you don't play the same.

But every good drummer on the planet can rock out quietly. Every single one.


No, you don't. But guess what?

Good drummers can compensate for that and still sound good.


Every good guitarist can play quietly without relying on turning the amp or guitar down. Every single one.

It's called mastery of your instrument.


Well, take more lessons. Work on your dynamics. Pay less attention to how many records your teacher has sold and more to how good his technique is.

Every good drummer can play quietly.

For crying out loud, man - YOU HAVE A PA! It's not like I'm asking you to only play at the level of a quiet, unamplified vocal.

Oh, yeah. I've played with drummers who can do that. You know why? Because they're good drummers. The fact that you can't play quietly enough to avoid overpowering an amplified vocal is laughable.

Work on your technique.


Neither does my acoustic guitar, but I can play it loud enough to keep up with electrified instruments (within reason) or quiet enough not to overpower a singer who's whispering.

Control of dynamics is a vital part of being able to play your instrument well. You need to develop that part of your skillset.

Or you could keep doing what you're doing and eventually destroy your singers vocals. But any halfway decent singer would have left the band by now because you obviously don't know what you're doing as a drummer.



What you don't understand is that this is a problem that everybody who's played in a band has dealt with. Underpowered PAs are common.

You know what we all do? We adapt. We play our instruments in a way that works with the musicians we're with and the gear we have. That's what good musicians do.



Your claims are laughable. I haven't even told you how much power our PA has, how can you possibly even begin to claim that I can simply play quieter when you have no idea how loud our singer is capable of getting? No your acoustic guitar doesn't have a volume control, but just like drums there is only a certain range of volume those instruments can go. Even if you hardly strum, or smash the strings you have a fairly limited volume range. Same with drums. Dynamics and volume are very different. You think somebody like Dave Grohl, or John Bonham played their drums quietly? No. In fact if you are trying to play very quiet and not hit the drums with any amount of the force you normally would, you lose your dynamics. I never said I couldn't play quietly. I don't want to. Because then practices turn into some thing where we aren't playing the songs like we normally do, and to me that's not practicing. Also, I'm totally calling BS on your claim that your acoustic can be heard over amplified guitars. Anyone with a tube amp will overpower you the second they turn it past 1.

Oh but of course any decent singer would have totally left by now, because I'm not tapping my drums and playing indie BS music. "Oh that was great practice guys, the energy was really down, and I know when we play a show and play our songs completely different from the way we practiced we'll all sound great."

Of course I know that many bands face this same problem. But you know what many of them do? They get some money and go buy a better PA so then they can hear the singer. You can only adjust and adapt so far. But hey if we can all master the volume level of our instrument why even have amplifiers at all? Lets go all acoustic and the singer can not use a mic and we should be able to hear everyone fine if we all control our volume level right?

This is getting very off topic from my original post, so this will be my last response. If you think I'm some neanderthal who has no technique and can only bash away aimlessly on my drums until finally the rest of the band gets so fed up and leaves, then so be it.
#25
I don't want to.


This is what it amounts to. You don't want to.

What you don't understand that, as soon as you start playing with other musicians, it's no longer about you. It's about the band as a whole.

I could go further than that and say that the moment you start playing with a singer, it's about the singer, and if what you're doing doesn't work with what the singer is doing you change.

I haven't even told you how much power our PA has, how can you possibly even begin to claim that I can simply play quieter when you have no idea how loud our singer is capable of getting?


It doesn't matter how much power your PA has. You have a PA. As I said - I've worked with drummer who can ROCK OUT while supporting an unamplified vocal. Having a crappy 20-watt PA would have been great - but they made it work.

And, of course, "the gear sucks" is not an excuse that's going to work the second you start getting gigs. Because you know what? Sometimes the PA will suck at a gig. Sometimes you won't get the support from the sound man you need. You know what you do to put on a good show in those circumstances?

You listen to each other, and you support each other, rather than trying to overpower each other.

You think somebody like Dave Grohl, or John Bonham played their drums quietly? No.


I think they are/were both very capable of playing the drums very quietly when it was appropriate. I think your wording here is giving something away. I'm telling you to develop the ability to play quietly and still rock out, and you're pointing to examples of people who generally, didn't play quietly.

Well, guess what? Dave Grohl wasn't usually in a situation where he HAD to play quietly. You are. But of course Dave Grohl was completely capable of supporting an acoustic set as a drummer, which suggests that he knew how to vary his playing. He certainly played very differently during - for example - Nirvana's MTV unplugged set than he did during a typical Nirvana show.

You might be able to learn something from that.

Because then practices turn into some thing where we aren't playing the songs like we normally do, and to me that's not practicing.


It's not practicing if you can't hear each other, and it's not practicing if you can't move like you want to because you're stuck with headphones on, either.

Also, I'm totally calling BS on your claim that your acoustic can be heard over amplified guitars. Anyone with a tube amp will overpower you the second they turn it past 1.


Well, if they WANT to they could easily overpower me. But that's the difference. You see, I play with good musicians who have control of their dynamics, and if they want to play with me and I'm on an acoustic they adjust, and I adjust, and we find a space we can both work with.

They don't crank up their 50-watt marshall heads and set all the dials to 11. But I've played acoustic with people on amps like a Blues Jr or a Blue Velvet with zero problems whatsoever. The bassist I usually play with is on an 80-watter, IIRC, and we never had any trouble. So you can call "bullshit" all you want but you don't know what you're talking about. And the drummer - well, honestly, the drummer I played with is the guy who taught me a lot of what I know about dynamics.

"Oh that was great practice guys, the energy was really down, and I know when we play a show and play our songs completely different from the way we practiced we'll all sound great."


Are you playing any shows at all, now? Right now you sound like crap because you can't hear each other and your singer is pushing himself out of his range. I mean, that's what started this, right? You were worried that he wasn't a good enough singer. It never occurred of you to ask what you might be doing which was contributing to the problem, did it?

The thing is, if you can play quietly with intensity, it's EASY to play louder. Seriously - getting louder is simple. Doesn't require a lot of practice of sophistication. You would know this if you bothered to learn how to play quietly with intensity. But a quote like:

because I'm not tapping my drums and playing indie BS music.


makes your own musical tastes abundantly clear. You're one of those kids who things that turning things up to 11 makes them sound better. That's okay, you'll learn. Probably. Hopefully you won't go deaf first.

Lets go all acoustic and the singer can not use a mic and we should be able to hear everyone fine if we all control our volume level right?


You do recognize that this is called a "straw man" argument, right?
#26
get your singer to take lessons. If he can be a great frontman with at least a good voice, then he/the band may be able to go far.
[img]http://cdn.gs.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/v.gif[/img]
#27
how often does your singer practice singing on his own? Is it only when singing to music turned up loud? In the car and in the shower? Or does he practice properly?

If he is doing proper practice he is doing something wrong and could use a good vocal coach. If he isn't practicing then why the hell not. You the bassist and the guitarist no doubt all practice your instruments he should too.

It takes more to be a singer than to stand up on stage and enjoy being the centre of attention. There are plenty of clowns that can do that for you. There are plenty of good singers out there. But if he can do both pretty well - awesome.

Some people are naturals some people have to work hard at it. Sounds like he could do some more work.

If you don't know how to tell him that in a positive way that will help him then just drum and put up with it.
Si
#28
Theres a difference between practicing at home with good technique and then having to go to band practice and scream at the brink of your physical ability just to be faintly heard among the cacophony of noobs turning every dial to 11.

Problem- singer cannot be heard.

Answer- Singers volume goes up or everyone elses goes down.

Remember...this may only be needed at practice- you may play gigs with a house PA..problem solved.

Stuff a couple of couch pillows into the drums and play with all the intensity you want. Its your right to rock out at practice for sure- I agree totally...

Bands are a brother/sisterhood.... like a sporting team or a military unit or whatever.... right now one of the band cannot be heard at practice. Bands that survive will solve this problem. Bands that dont...wont...
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#29
When I used to rehearse in our school's rooms we had tiny amps and a fairly loud drumkit/drummer. We solved it by getting the drummer to calm down. The result was balanced volumes and everyone capable of hearing everyone else. Sure, when we used the studio rehearsal rooms with the PA and louder amps he played as hard as he wanted, we just simply turned up. Our drummer did it (granted it was hard for him at first) with practice.
#30
Quote by HotspurJr
Brutal truth time.

You are the problem.

Use brushes rather than sticks and learn some technique.

Every good drummer can drum quietly.



I agree with this completely.

Man up and dampen your drums a bit.
#31
My two cents

It's all about hitting the right pitches.


Think of playing a chord progression in C on a piano. If you get a monkey to hit only white keys, it doesn't matter what he hits; it will always sound right. It may be off tempo, but in that case you can just pass him off as an avant-garde monkey.

That's how bands like The Mars Volta get by. He may not be the best singer, but he can match the pitches so you can just chalk it up to the style; it sounds weird, but it technically fits.

However live, it's a completely different story. If you look up bands on let's say YouTube, local type bands, usually if the singer is mediocre too bad, but gets the audience into it, they still go crazy. The atmosphere of a concert changes people's opinions. For most normal people the crowd mentality overrides their perception of your skill. That's why if you look at crappyish bands people still get all into it if the lead singer or whoever is the lead member gets really into it. As long as you can get him to match the key of the song you're golden, and that can only come with practice and experience.

tl;dr Just try and train him to hit the correct pitches better and you'll be fine, stage presence is a big plus and if he can nail that then its worth it to keep him and try to help train his voice rather than replace him.
www.reverbnation.com/thepursuitmillerplace
Hard rock, blues, psychedelic, pop, something for everyone


Quote by Myfirstpubes
Forreal. Tingle was a baller just trying to make a living. He never gave up on the hustle.
#32
Quote by pursuit

tl;dr Just try and train him to hit the correct pitches better and you'll be fine, stage presence is a big plus and if he can nail that then its worth it to keep him and try to help train his voice rather than replace him.


There are almost no singers who will be able to maintain pitch accuracy while struggling to be heard over a bunch of guitarists turned up to 11 and a drummer who thinks that he should be able to play as loud as he wants to play with no consideration for anyone else.

You can not sing accurately if you can't hear yourself. And you can not sing accurately if you're outside of your volume comfort range. Yes, that comfort range can be expanded with practice, but even an opera singer (and those guys have freakish volume) would struggle to keep good tone singing on top of a drummer who refused to accommodate the singer.

When a singer tries to sing lounder than they should, all sorts of bad things happen. THe least of these is an inability to control pitch. You get poor articulation and resonance. You can also tweak or permanently damage your vocal folds.

In other words, trying to sing louder than you can comfortably do so is a disaster on every level. You should NEVER ask your singer to do it.
#33
Quote by HotspurJr
There are almost no singers who will be able to maintain pitch accuracy while struggling to be heard over a bunch of guitarists turned up to 11 and a drummer who thinks that he should be able to play as loud as he wants to play with no consideration for anyone else.

You can not sing accurately if you can't hear yourself. And you can not sing accurately if you're outside of your volume comfort range. Yes, that comfort range can be expanded with practice, but even an opera singer (and those guys have freakish volume) would struggle to keep good tone singing on top of a drummer who refused to accommodate the singer.

When a singer tries to sing lounder than they should, all sorts of bad things happen. THe least of these is an inability to control pitch. You get poor articulation and resonance. You can also tweak or permanently damage your vocal folds.

In other words, trying to sing louder than you can comfortably do so is a disaster on every level. You should NEVER ask your singer to do it.


Ahhhh this was my reading mistake, I didn't get up to the part where it was established that the volume of the instruments at practice was the root of the problem, my apologies!
www.reverbnation.com/thepursuitmillerplace
Hard rock, blues, psychedelic, pop, something for everyone


Quote by Myfirstpubes
Forreal. Tingle was a baller just trying to make a living. He never gave up on the hustle.
#34
He needs work, but his voice isn't bad and if he's a good front-man make it clear that any criticisms aren't meant to be offensive. He's definitely flat though... Like in a painful way a lot of the time. Like so close that it hurts rather than so far off, which is the better end of 'bad' to be on. A few sessions with a vocal coach, or just trying to have him try to sing to pitches played on another instrument so he can get the experience of what it 'feels' like when you sing the right note vs. the wrong one...

The volume of practice is also important... A decent PA goes a long way and ear plugs are a must for everyone. If you can't hear him over everything else you need to back stuff off a bit and/or play around with everyone's EQ to create room for him in the mix.
Last edited by RadioMuse at Oct 3, 2012,
#35
not a bad singer at all. id say my singer is worse, and he does just fine.