Woffelz
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#1
Is it really ascending fourths/descending fifths and NOT ascending fifths/descending fourths?! Why?!
Woffelz

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Sleepy__Head
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#3
You can go up in fourths / down in fifths or up in fifths / down in fourths. It makes no difference. The important thing is the interval - regardless of whether you're going up / down, left / right or forward / backward the cycle is of all fourths or all fifths.
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J-Dawg158
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#4
Quote by Woffelz
Is it really ascending fourths/descending fifths and NOT ascending fifths/descending fourths?! Why?!


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sixsrtingsunder
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#6
Think back to kindergarden art class. 8 crayons, 3 primary colors. If in the key of c, the primary tones are c:1, f:4 and g:5. They are also opposites. F is 4 from c. C is 5 from f. G is 5 from c. C is 4 from g. Primary tones all have big consinance. They sound good together. Keys are the same, soare chords, so are notes. If you know your scale shapes play c major. To get to the key of f you add a flat on the 7th of the c major... viola you have a f major. To get to g major from c major youd add a sharp to the 4th the c major. More precisely, the c changes fom the major to the 4th or 5th scale, aka the lydian or the mixolydian, so in short, yes counter clockwise is 4th movement. Clockwise is 5th movement. You should also learn chords in this manner across the neck. Look up your chord cycles fot mote info.
20Tigers
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#8
Quote by metalmetalhead

G is still C's fifths higher or lower

F is still C's fourth higher or lower.


G is a perfect fifth above C
F is a perfect fifth below C
Si
Sleepy__Head
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#9
Quote by 20Tigers
G is a perfect fifth above C
F is a perfect fifth below C


Or, for the sake of completeness:

G is the 5th note in the major, and natural-, harmonic- and melodic-minor scales of C.
G is the dominant tone of the key(s) of C (regardless of where it's pitched).
If G is pitched above C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 5th above.
If G is pitched below C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 4th below.

F is the 4th note in the major, and natural-, harmonic- and melodic-minor scales of C.
F is the subdominant tone of the key(s) of C (regardless of where it's pitched).
If F is pitched above C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 4th above.
If F is pitched below C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 5th below.
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metalmetalhead
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#10
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Or, for the sake of completeness:

G is the 5th note in the major, and natural-, harmonic- and melodic-minor scales of C.
G is the dominant tone of the key(s) of C (regardless of where it's pitched).
If G is pitched above C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 5th above.
If G is pitched below C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 4th below.

F is the 4th note in the major, and natural-, harmonic- and melodic-minor scales of C.
F is the subdominant tone of the key(s) of C (regardless of where it's pitched).
If F is pitched above C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 4th above.
If F is pitched below C it will be n-octaves and a perfect 5th below.


I think when getting into this its good to spell out the scale. now that your linking more subjects. this is getting into interval inversions.

G is still C's 5th. and F is still C's 4th but now your confusing someone trying to learn Co5's

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 ascending notes its the 5ths scale degree..If you look at it descending its 4 scale degrees from octave. but Its still labeled as 5. It can get confusing when someone says G is C's 5th and G is a p4 lower then C.

I think this is called interval inversion. the rule of thumb when inverting intervals is the numbers always = 9 so 5+4=9. So If your playing relative minor 6th scale degree you invert that to see what it is the other way. 6+3=9
Captaincranky
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Join date: Sep 2011
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#11
Maybe it could be called,
"The Circle of Fifths, But Only When You READ it CLOCKWISE".


Then, to avoid a lengthy and contentious thread, print it on other side of the paper exactly the same, and call it,
"The Circle of Fourths, But Only When You READ it COUNTERCLOCKWISE".
Sleepy__Head
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#12
Quote by metalmetalhead
I think when getting into this its good to spell out the scale. now that your linking more subjects. this is getting into interval inversions.

G is still C's 5th.

and F is still C's 4th but now your confusing someone trying to learn Co5's


Ok, I agree that F is C's subdominant, and G it's dominant regardless of where you pitch them in relation to C, as long as you're doing tonal music in C major, or C natural, harmonic or melodic minor. I take your point on ascending and descending scales, except to say that scale degrees are usually labelled from the tonic upwards.

As far as interval inversion goes what you've said is correct, but it's also worth bearing in mind that the interval quality also inverts. Major becomes minor, augmented becomes diminished and perfect stays perfect. A minor 3rd becomes a major 6th, for example. If you're counting semitones then when inverting intervals the two intervals always add to 12, so a major 3rd is 4 semitones, and a minor 6th is 8 semitones and 4 + 8 = 12.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Sleepy__Head
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#13
Quote by Captaincranky
Maybe it could be called,

Then, to avoid a lengthy and contentious thread, print it on other side of the paper exactly the same, and call it,


Circle of dominant and subdominants anyone?
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
food1010
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#14
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Circle of dominant and subdominants anyone?
Circle of key signatures?
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Captaincranky
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#15
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Circle of dominant and subdominants anyone?
Names are so easily forgettable anyway! You could come up with all different names. Would people remember them all? Not Likely!

Which is why I say we should work out a logo for the, "circle whose name cannot be spoken"..... It works enormously well for large corporations, does it not?


Hey, how about an apple with a bite out of it.......? That one's been taken, you say?

Sh, I'm going to work out the name, maybe the logo will come......

"The circle whose name it mustn't be spoken"........

"The circle whose name it is forbidden to be spoken"........

"The circle whose name it dare not be spoken".........

"The circle that rotates two directions at once, yet never moves"......

Am I even getting warm........
Last edited by Captaincranky at Oct 3, 2012,
metalmetalhead
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#16
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Ok, I agree that F is C's subdominant, and G it's dominant regardless of where you pitch them in relation to C, as long as you're doing tonal music in C major, or C natural, harmonic or melodic minor. I take your point on ascending and descending scales, except to say that scale degrees are usually labelled from the tonic upwards.

As far as interval inversion goes what you've said is correct, but it's also worth bearing in mind that the interval quality also inverts. Major becomes minor, augmented becomes diminished and perfect stays perfect. A minor 3rd becomes a major 6th, for example. If you're counting semitones then when inverting intervals the two intervals always add to 12, so a major 3rd is 4 semitones, and a minor 6th is 8 semitones and 4 + 8 = 12.


yes I knew I was missing something. I wasn't for sure about the Interval qualities inverting. so I didn't mention it, I'm glad you did. oh and looky there you can count in semitones as well to =12. or scale degrees to =9 so P5 is 7 semitones P4 is 5 seimtones . 7+5=12 or 5+4=9. cool thanks sleepy head

C05 was very confusing for me at first until I learned what it was used for "key signature" now it does little to no good for me. But it still taught me useful stuff.
Sleepy__Head
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#17
Quote by Captaincranky
Names are so easily forgettable anyway! You could come up with all different names. Would people remember them all? Not Likely!

Which is why I say we should work out a logo for the, "circle whose name cannot be spoken"..... It works enormously well for large corporations, does it not?


Hey, how about an apple with a bite out of it.......? That one's been taken, you say?

Sh, I'm going to work out the name, maybe the logo will come......

"The circle whose name it mustn't be spoken"........

"The circle whose name it is forbidden to be spoken"........

"The circle whose name it dare not be spoken".........

"The circle that rotates two directions at once, yet never moves"......

Am I even getting warm........


I like "The circle that rotates two directions at once, yet never moves".

It has a mystical quality to it.

Pronunciation of the holy name should be accompanied by a similarly mystical gesture.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Sleepy__Head
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#18
Quote by metalmetalhead
yes I knew I was missing something. I wasn't for sure about the Interval qualities inverting. so I didn't mention it, I'm glad you did. oh and looky there you can count in semitones as well to =12. or scale degrees to =9 so P5 is 7 semitones P4 is 5 seimtones . 7+5=12 or 5+4=9. cool thanks sleepy head

C05 was very confusing for me at first until I learned what it was used for "key signature" now it does little to no good for me. But it still taught me useful stuff.


No worries.

C05? Is that C dim 5?
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Sleepy__Head
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#20
*facepalm*

Can't believe I didn't spot that. It's visible from space, FFS.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Captaincranky
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#21
Quote by food1010
Circle of key signatures?
I thought the key signature illustrations were just thrown in gratuitously.......


Besides, first you have to spin the wheel. Then you have to guess a letter, wait for Pat to tell you if the key is there or not, and if it is, then Vanna lights up its staff....

In related news, I think Vanna was probably better at "lighting up a staff, say 20 years ago?
Last edited by Captaincranky at Oct 3, 2012,
Sleepy__Head
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#23
Quote by Captaincranky
Besides, first you have to spin the wheel.


Clockwise or anticlockwise?
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Captaincranky
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#24
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Clockwise or anticlockwise?
Not sure. It's either toward the camera, or clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere.

Ya hafta gauge it off which way your toilet spins when you flush it......
Sleepy__Head
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#25
Quote by Captaincranky
Not sure. It's either toward the camera, or clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere.

Ya hafta gauge it off which way your toilet spins when you flush it......

And you're damn outta luck if you live on the equator
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Captaincranky
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#26
Quote by Sleepy__Head
And you're damn outta luck if you live on the equator
Nah, on the equator the toilet would spin both directions at once, time would reverse, and we'd have to start the thread all over again.

On a more serious note, if you were directly on the equator, the water would really just go straight down? Wow, that's heavy! That concept never even crossed my mind. To the upside, I expect the turds would skip the whole whirling dervish act, and just go away....
Last edited by Captaincranky at Oct 5, 2012,
Sleepy__Head
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#27
Quote by Captaincranky
Nah, on the equator the toilet would spin both directions at once, time would reverse, and we'd have to start the thread all over again.

On a more serious note, if you were directly on the equator, the water would really just go straight down? Wow, that's heavy! That concept never even crossed my mind. To the upside, I expect the turds would skip the whole whirling dervish act, and just go away....


Actually water goes the same way down the plug-hole regardless of which hemisphere you live in because that kind of vortex has more to do with the design of your washbasin or loo than it does with the directional spin of the earth. Large wind systems, though, they're a different matter.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Captaincranky
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#28
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Actually water goes the same way down the plug-hole regardless of which hemisphere you live in because that kind of vortex has more to do with the design of your washbasin or loo than it does with the directional spin of the earth. Large wind systems, though, they're a different matter.
Well that took all the fun out of it, party pooper. (buen pun, si)?

Take a moment to ponder this though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
mdc
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#29
Quote by Woffelz
Is it really ascending fourths/descending fifths and NOT ascending fifths/descending fourths?! Why?!

Hello
J-Dawg158
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#30
Quote by Captaincranky
Well that took all the fun out of it, party pooper. (buen pun, si)?

Take a moment to ponder this though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum


That is a cool experiment, but I always liked this one better when talking about conservation of angular momentum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H98BgRzpOM
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Sleepy__Head
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#31
Quote by Captaincranky
Well that took all the fun out of it, party pooper. (buen pun, si)?


Mucho bueno, Capitán de mal humor!

Yeah - I thought that the plughole thing had to do with the rotation of the earth but I watched some TV that debunked the myth. And we all know that if it's on TV then it's true.

Quote by Captaincranky
Take a moment to ponder this though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum


I read that book once. I preferred The Name Of The Rose.

I'll get my coat.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Last edited by Sleepy__Head at Oct 5, 2012,
Mister A.J.
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#32
I haven't laughed that hard in months.


Back on topic, the Circle of Fifths is when one goes from C (clock-wise), and up a fifth each step. First to G, then to D, A, E, etc, etc. The Circle of Fourths is when one goes from C (counter-clockwise), and goes down a fourth each step. First F, then Bb, Eb, etc. At one point or another, they will cross the key that really f**king sucks (F#/Gb Major).

At this point, I have no idea what else is there. Other than the shortcut for transposing keys and such.
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Last edited by Mister A.J. at Oct 6, 2012,
20Tigers
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#33
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Actually water goes the same way down the plug-hole regardless of which hemisphere you live in because that kind of vortex has more to do with the design of your washbasin or loo than it does with the directional spin of the earth. Large wind systems, though, they're a different matter.

What!! I've been lied to all my life.
Si
Captaincranky
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#34
Quote by Mister A.J.
First F, then Bb, Eb, etc. At one point or another, they will cross the key that really f**king sucks (F#/Gb Major).
Well see, in my version of the "wheel of woe", er, I mean, "circle of fifths", that key doesn't exist! All there is at that wedge, is a picture of a capo.....