Poll: Leslie's Soda Tax
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View poll results: Leslie's Soda Tax
I'd vote in favor of the tax
52 38%
I'd vote against the tax
70 51%
I'm not sure
16 12%
Voters: 138.
Page 2 of 6
#41
Imagine how much more pleasant naturalist beaches would be if obesity was much less widespread.

Just think about THAT.
Quote by The Charm
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What if blue cheese is just regular cheese but it's accelerating towards you really fast?
Last edited by Wolfinator-x at Sep 29, 2012,
#42
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Against. The only way I would support a tax on junk food is if food companies got a tax incentive or something of the like to lower the price of healthy food. That way the poor aren't practically forced to buy junk food.


Tax unhealthy food and use it to subsidize healthy food? Might solve world hunger, come to think of it...
#43
Tap water is practically (for drinking purposes at least, or if you have a well like I do) free and a filter for your tap water can be obtained at a reasonable price. Bulk chicken is cheap as **** and also healthy, and there are tons of vegetables that can be obtained at reasonable prices.

Today you learned that healthy food can be cheap too.
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#44
The existence of the value menu trumps
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#45
Quote by Hydra150
Prostate-Specific Antigen's?

In case you're not kidding...public service announcements...

Quote by Mudmen190
Companies don't have your health as their best interest. The government should, as (if general public health isn't good enough) it could potentially cut down on obesity and diet-related hospital visits, thus reducing costs.

The government shouldn't be paternalistic. And you, as an adult in full possession of your mental faculties, should be fully able to make healthy choices. That said, no one should force you to make healthy choices.

Quote by The Charm
Tap water is practically (for drinking purposes at least, or if you have a well like I do) free and a filter for your tap water can be obtained at a reasonable price. Bulk chicken is cheap as fuck and also healthy, and there are tons of vegetables that can be obtained at reasonable prices.

Today you learned that healthy food can be cheap too.
Actually, vegetables are becoming expensive in many parts of the US. You're better off if you have a small garden and grow many of your own veggies.
#46
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
The existence of the value menu trumps


lol, yea. I can go to Wendy's and get two double cheeseburgers, fries, and a frosty for under $5
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#47
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
In case you're not kidding...public service announcements...

Why would I kid about such srs bsns?
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Last edited by Hydra150 at Sep 30, 2012,
#48
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And all those god-forsaken gay sand-nigger-Jews with disabilities who support women's rights.

Let's hunt them all down, wolfie.
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#49
Quote by WCPhils
lol, yea. I can go to Wendy's and get two double cheeseburgers, fries, and a frosty for under $5

That's a damn lie!

Aren't the single burgers like $3.50 alone?
#51
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

The government shouldn't be paternalistic. And you, as an adult in full possession of your mental faculties, should be fully able to make healthy choices. That said, no one should force you to make healthy choices.

But the food industry does everything it can to sway you towards those desicions, to change the culture of eating, because unhealthy stuff is profitable.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#52
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
That's a damn lie!

Aren't the single burgers like $3.50 alone?

No, they sell double cheeseburgers for 99cents here.

A medium fries is $1 and a frosty is $1.50
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
Last edited by WCPhils at Sep 30, 2012,
#53
Quote by WCPhils
No, they sell double cheeseburgers for 99cents here.

A medium fries is $1 and a frostie is $1.50

A cheep little McDonalds hamburger is $2 here. If you want a flimsy piece of cheese on it you're looking at $2.50. I won't even tell you the price of a double cheeseburger.
-The Crimson Fucker, aka PonyFan #376121
#54
Quote by WCPhils
No, they sell double cheeseburgers for 99cents here.

A medium fries is $1 and a frosty is $1.50

Oh nevermind I think I had that and it was really dry but okay for the price. The Dave's ones are amazing but $3.50
#55
Quote by metal4eva_22
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And then we can come home and make love to our many beautiful wives.




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What if blue cheese is just regular cheese but it's accelerating towards you really fast?
#56
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

Actually, vegetables are becoming expensive in many parts of the US. You're better off if you have a small garden and grow many of your own veggies.


Even better. People grow their own food and become more independent.

That being said, chicken and water without any veggies is still healthier than a number 2 from McDonalds.

Also, according to Wal-Mart's website canned corn is 86 cents a can, which is pretty cheap considering it's 3.5 servings
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#57
Quote by WCPhils
No, they sell double cheeseburgers for 99cents here.

A medium fries is $1 and a frostie is $1.50

Taco Bell has a 79, 89, and 99 cent menu. McDonald's and BK have dollar menus. I have no financial incentive to buy healthier food, not that I have the means anyway. I'm not fat. Taxing junk would just break me. Luckily, I have weened myself off of pop and I drink more tea now. I bought a two liter of Mt Dew last night, it's just over halfway empty, six months ago I would have finished it by 1 PM today.
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#58
Quote by The Charm
Also, according to Wal-Mart's website canned corn is 86 cents a can, which is pretty cheap considering it's 3.5 servings

>corn
>vegetable

Corn is a very high-glycemic sugary starchy empty grain. Canned corn is even worse. But thanks for the nutrition advice.
Last edited by due 07 at Sep 30, 2012,
#59
Quote by The Charm
Even better. People grow their own food and become more independent.

That being said, chicken and water without any veggies is still healthier than a number 2 from McDonalds.

Also, according to Wal-Mart's website canned corn is 86 cents a can, which is pretty cheap considering it's 3.5 servings

Do you know how much sodium is in canned vegetables? Any nutritional value vegetables have is offset by the amount of salt put into canned product.
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Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


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#60
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Taco Bell has a 79, 89, and 99 cent menu. McDonald's and BK have dollar menus. I have no financial incentive to buy healthier food, not that I have the means anyway. I'm not fat. Taxing junk would just break me. Luckily, I have weened myself off of pop and I drink more tea now. I bought a two liter of Mt Dew last night, it's just over halfway empty, six months ago I would have finished it by 1 PM today.

Yea, I've been surviving on Taco Bell, and those little pizzas at Pizza Hut since school started. Also some food off of food trucks outside on school.

I don't really drink much soda though (Maybe once or twice a week ). I'll usually just get a Gatorade or Powerade.

I'm not fat at all. I would be pissed if they started taxing that stuff.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
Last edited by WCPhils at Sep 30, 2012,
#61
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Do you know how much sodium is in canned vegetables? Any nutritional value vegetables have is offset by the amount of salt put into canned product.

This is generally true. There's much healthier ways to can than how mass produced canned goods are done. Look up home canning sometime.

Quote by WCPhils

I don't really drink much soda though (Maybe once or twice a week ). I'll usually just get a Gatorade or Powerade.

I'm not fat at all. I would be pissed if they started taxing that stuff.

Iirc, the proposed NY tax on "soda" also covered sports drinks like Gatorade and Powerade.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Sep 30, 2012,
#62
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Do you know how much sodium is in canned vegetables? Any nutritional value vegetables have is offset by the amount of salt put into canned product.


1 serving of Green Giant Whole Kernel Sweet Corn contains 320mg or 13% of your daily sodium intake. This is still, a much better alternative than McDonalds. Are fresh vegetables better for you? Absolutely.
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#63
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

Iirc, the proposed NY tax on "soda" also covered sports drinks like Gatorade and Powerade.

That's retarded.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#64


Instead of hamburgers, why not canned corn?
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#65
Quote by WCPhils
That's retarded.


Sports drinks still contain a ton of calories and sodium.

See, the idea behind them is that athletes need a lot of both of those things.

Fat people however, don't.

Quote by ErikLensherr


Instead of hamburgers, why not canned corn?


Actually I suggested chicken+vegetables, and canned vegetables if you can't afford actual vegetables, and then made the point that it was a better alternative, which it is.
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Last edited by The Charm at Sep 30, 2012,
#66
There shouldn't be an additional tax just on soda. There should be hefty fees imposed on restaurants that offer sizes of soft drinks larger than say... 25 oz. and subsidies for healthy restaurants. I really don't like the idea of the government getting involved in what people eat, but when so many Americans are massive meatbags, something has to be done.
#67
Quote by WCPhils
That's retarded.

The whole idea of a tax on sugary drinks is mega-retarded, which is why the citizens of NYC told the mayor he was being a moron.

Quote by The Charm
Sports drinks still contain a ton of calories and sodium.

See, the idea behind them is that athletes need a lot of both of those things.

Fat people however, don't.
Doesn't mean we should tax fat people who decide they like Gatorade.

Quote by TheChaz
There shouldn't be an additional tax just on soda. There should be hefty fees imposed on restaurants that offer sizes of soft drinks larger than say... 25 oz. and subsidies for healthy restaurants. I really don't like the idea of the government getting involved in what people eat, but when so many Americans are massive meatbags, something has to be done.

Why? Why should the government tell people how and what to eat?

Should the government also tax me, if I don't get 8+ hours of sleep?

By taxing people who buy unhealthy food or soft drinks larger than 25oz., the government is placing a penalty on those things, in an effort to prevent you from harming yourself. The government should NOT be paternalistic, man. Btw, here's a definition of paternalistic, for those who don't know what it means.
Quote by dictionary.com
paternalistic

the system, principle, or practice of managing or governing individuals, businesses, nations, etc., in the manner of a father dealing benevolently and often intrusively with his children


Do you really want the government saying, "This is bad for you. We're taxing it, so you now find it harder to do."
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Sep 30, 2012,
#68
Quote by The Charm
Sports drinks still contain a ton of calories and sodium.

See, the idea behind them is that athletes need a lot of both of those things.

Fat people however, don't.

I don't really care. I'm not fat and I like the way they taste.

Plus, I have to walk to and from classes.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#69
I'm torn on this one... I'm more or less for it. The problem is that taxing soda isn't the best solution, but the only solution that might actually happen. Restaurants not offering such enormous sizes would help a little, but too many would complain of getting ripped off for getting less for the same price.

The root of the problem though, comes from corn subsidies. As much as HFCS supporters want to say it's not unhealthy they're (sort of) wrong. The cheapness of HFCS due to corn subsidies is unhealthy... it makes soft drinks way too cheap.


Leading causes of death in the US, 2009:

Heart disease: 599,413
Cancer: 567,628
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
Diabetes: 68,705
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909

Heart disease, some cancers, stroke, and diabetes can all be attributable to obesity. Obviously not all of these deaths are directly caused obesity, but obesity increases someones chances for any of those 4, among a lot of other things.

Just under a third of all adults in the US are a healthy weight. On average, obese people pay about $1,400/year more on healthcare. Medicare pays about $1,700 more than paid for normal weight people, and Medicaid pays about $1,000 than paid for normal weight people.

In the 70s, the US implemented some sugar tariffs and started subsidizing corn sometime after that. With the corn subsidy bringing the cost of corn, and therefore HFCS down, farmers realized in the 80s they could grow a massive amount of corn and get paid for in. Im 2007, another government initiative to promote ethanol as fuel as helped drive down the cost of corn some more. The last link is a really good article about the subsidies and some of the effects.




Sauces:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/PDFs/stat904z.pdf
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/01/04/how-the-finally-ended-corn-ethanol-subsidy-made-us-fatter/
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#70
Well I'm not in favor of the taxes in the first place. I don't really care if you kill yourself by drinking 8 gallons of Poweraid in a half hour.

Just don't ask me scrape your corpse off the sidewalk.
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#71
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
The government shouldn't be paternalistic. And you, as an adult in full possession of your mental faculties, should be fully able to make healthy choices. That said, no one should force you to make healthy choices.


Do you think the dietary habits of a lot of western countries reflects that? I don't mean to call them stupid, but it's obviously not that simple.
#73
Quote by The Charm
Well I'm not in favor of the taxes in the first place. I don't really care if you kill yourself by drinking 8 gallons of Poweraid in a half hour.

Just don't ask me scrape your corpse off the sidewalk.

I don't want to OD on Gatorade
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#74
i voted for, just so that maybe, just maybe, we would get to see mass protests in which fat people gather at 7-Elevens everywhere to raid slurpee machines
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#75
Quote by Mudmen190
Do you think the dietary habits of a lot of western countries reflects that? I don't mean to call them stupid, but it's obviously not that simple.

Yes, it is. Most people fully know that eating a hamburger at McDonald's is not healthy. Those who decide to do that are no less aware of the risks of continually eating unhealthy foods than those who decide not to eat unhealthy foods. The point is, no one should try to force (meaning make it illegal) or coerce (meaning tax) you into living a healthy lifestyle.

Edit:
See my above post (post #67) for more info.

Quote by WCPhils
I don't want to OD on Gatorade

Don't worry, man. I got you. I, as an advocate of non-paternalism, will buy you a stomach pump machine. That way, whenever you drink too much Gatorade, you can just have someone attach the machine and let it do its thing. It'll be painful, but you'll be fully able to get back to drinking Gatorade in no time!
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Sep 30, 2012,
#76
For. A ban I think is stupid and counterproductive. But taxing it I like. It's not like you're going to die if you have a glass of water instead of a bottle of Coke, it's a luxury item, and there's no freedom being impinged more than any other sales tax by taxing it.
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#77
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Yes, it is. Most people fully know that eating a hamburger at McDonald's is not healthy. Those who decide to do that are no less aware of the risks of continually eating unhealthy foods than those who decide not to eat unhealthy foods. The point is, no one should try to force (meaning make it illegal) or coerce (meaning tax) you into living a healthy lifestyle.


But are we morally obligated, as a society, to promote the health of ourselves and our peers? Is it not to the benefit of society as a whole if most people are healthy?

As I said in my first post, I'm not really for taxing it, but I think it's the only solution to the problem that could actually happen. And obesity is starting to put a large strain on our healthcare system and, as I mentioned in my first post Medicare and Medicaid (government programs!) pay much more per obese person than normal weight person on those programs. Surely, everyone here against the tax wouldn't be happy that the government is having to pay more to for the healthcare of people on government programs who are overweight.
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#78
I, personally, (were I of voting age) would vote in favor. The shit is not healthy for you. I love soda, but when you think about it, you're paying taxes for people to be obese. They get medication for their obesity-related health issues from government-funded healthcare programs, which are funded by your tax dollars.

Sure, it puts that burden on the poor, as they are the largest soda-drinking demographic, but they could buy, say, water, and maybe be a little bit healthier for it? They aren't going to die of a lack of soda. If it changes what they spend their money on, great, that's wonderful, they'll be healthier, huzzah. If not, at least they're paying a little more money towards their own medication.

Basically, what ChrisBW said. I wrote that stuff and then read his post, and I don't feel like erasing what I wrote. So, there you have it. Again, I'm a minor, so this wouldn't even really affect me, beyond what little soda I do drink. Economically, it just makes sense to me, not to mention the obvious health benefits of consuming less soda.
#80
Quote by ChrisBW
But are we morally obligated, as a society, to promote the health of ourselves and our peers? Is it not to the benefit of society as a whole if most people are healthy?

Why exactly should the government be promoting the health of society? If it's going to do that, shouldn't it be done in a non-intrusive manner, like running PSAs? Besides, can't people educate society on the benefits of good health? Isn't that much better than taxing pop?


Btw, just take a look at cigarettes/chewing tobacco. A few decades back, the US government decided that smoking and chewing tobacco was unhealthy. (Which it is, and research proves this.) However, people still smoke and still chew. It could be argued that by taxing the hell out of tobacco, more people quit. However, it could also be argued that those people were going to quit anyway. Taxing something for health reasons doesn't magically mean that everyone decides to stop doing it (or, in the case of tobacco, new people don't pick up the habit). All you really do is place a burden upon those who are poor but also wish to enjoy whatever unhealthy behavior is in question.