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I went to a state school and would not send my child to a private school.
69 42%
I went to a state school and would send my child to a private school.
45 27%
I went to a private school and would not send my child to a private school.
12 7%
I went to a private school and would send my child to a private school.
38 23%
Voters: 164.
Page 4 of 8
#121
Quote by Eastwinn
Wait. Why would you guys want to ban private schools?

Because they somehow think that would have an effect they desire...

Personally, I think having private alternatives to public schools is a good thing. I really don't see why people would disagree with that (unless they're using their limited personal experiences as a basis as to why they dislike private schools).
#122
Quote by Eastwinn
Wait. Why would you guys want to ban private schools?

Why not?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#123
Quote by Hydra150
Why not?


Because there's no inherent societal damage caused by private schooling and unless it can be shown that a given action causes damage, Gov't has no business legislating against it.

One of the same arguments I use against prohibiting gay marriage.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#124
Quote by Arby911
Because there's no inherent societal damage caused by private schooling and unless it can be shown that a given action causes damage, Gov't has no business legislating against it.

One of the same arguments I use against prohibiting gay marriage.

The fact that the government itself is made up largely of boys who went to the same private school is reason enough for me. It's a symbol of inequality, the class system that Britain hasn't quite fixed. Get rid of them and improve state schools, have those awesome teachers teach the poor kids and the rich, have wealthy parents support ordinary schools (I assume parents can donate to help state schools) so that they improve for everyone, have the rich and the future prime ministers mingling with the working class, have it so that the top universities can't chose their students based on which high school they went to, have it so that a disadvantaged kid can attend the school that is nearest him without a fortune standing in his way. It's inherently unfair - education shouldn't be about money.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Oct 2, 2012,
#125
Quote by Eastwinn
Wait. Why would you guys want to ban private schools?
Because I don't think one child has more of a right to a better education (assuming this is what the private school provides. If not, send them to the just-as-good state school) than another based on their parents wealth.

I.e. It's not a child's fault if he is born poor, just the same as it isn't another child's fault if he is born rich.

Similar to healthcare. And, to a lesser degree, the law.

My 2 cents anyway.


EDIT: ^ and that as well. Well said.

EDIT 2: And I don't think people should get bogged down on whether the private school is better. The fact they are charging for education is the principle.

Also, could somewhere find the statistic which was along the lines of:

1/4 children go to private school in the UK.
2/3 children going to Oxbridge went to private school.

Highlights a growing inequality.
Last edited by fender_696 at Oct 2, 2012,
#126
7% of the British population attended independent schools, yet 75% of judges, 70% of finance directors and 45% of top civil servants have been privately educated.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#127
I really don't see the big deal about rich kids going to private schools A lot of times even if they went to public schools they would still be around other rich kids.

If a kid goes to a public school in West Philadelphia almost every other kid is gonna be pretty poor. And if a kid goes to public school in New Hope/New Town (Rich suburbs outside of Philadelphia. I'm just using local examples) then almost every other kid is going to be rich.

What's the difference? Especially since a lot of you aren't saying the level of education is that different.

If the parents want to pay for their kids to go to school, so be it. They still have to pay public school taxes anyway.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#128
Quote by fender_696

Also, could somewhere find the statistic which was along the lines of:

1/4 children go to private school in the UK.
2/3 children going to Oxbridge went to private school.

Highlights a growing inequality.

An inequality that occurred because the UK public schools (just like the public US schools) are largely not as good as private schools. If the UK (and the US) made some major changes to their education systems, then they'd be better off on the whole.

Quote by WCPhils
If the parents want to pay for their kids to go to school, so be it. They still have to pay public school taxes anyway.

This is the clincher that makes it all fair. It's not like, by sending their kids to private school, they stop shouldering the same tax burden everyone else does. In fact, parents who send their kids to private schools pay both a generally high tuition fee AND public school taxes. It's not like they get a percentage credit on their property taxes or anything...
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 2, 2012,
#129
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
If the UK (and the US) made some major changes to their education systems, then they'd be better off on the whole.

Couldn't agree more. Let's abolish private schools, to start with
Quote by WCPhils

If a kid goes to a public school in West Philadelphia almost every other kid is gonna be pretty poor. And if a kid goes to public school in New Hope/New Town (Rich suburbs outside of Philadelphia. I'm just using local examples) then almost every other kid is going to be rich.

What if a kid goes to a poor school in West Philadelphia but then get's transferred to a posh school in Bel Air due to bullying?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Oct 2, 2012,
#130
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
An inequality that occurred because the UK public schools (just like the public US schools) are largely not as good as private schools. If the UK (and the US) made some major changes to their education systems, then they'd be better off on the whole.
Exactly...

Instead of flooding the private schools with lots of wealth, get rid of them and use that money fairly, ideally distributing it evenly across everyone - not just the children of rich people.
#131
Quote by Hydra150
Couldn't agree more. Let's abolish private schools, to start with

Completely wrong way to go about it.

Quote by fender_696
Exactly...

Instead of flooding the private schools with lots of wealth, get rid of them and use that money fairly, ideally distributing it evenly across everyone - not just the children of rich people.
Yes, because equal distribution has been proven to work, right? Oh, wait...historically, it's been proven to fail. Start doing this, and the rich people will just move to a different country.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 2, 2012,
#132
Quote by Hydra150

What if a kid goes to a poor school in West Philadelphia but then get's transferred to a posh school in Bel Air due to bullying?

Don't know how I didn't see that coming...

Bur seriously, he'd be really lucky since West Philly is a shithole.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#133
Quote by WCPhils

What's the difference? Especially since a lot of you aren't saying the level of education is that different.

The difference is in the facts that Fender and I have quoted - the education might be as good, but the job prospects tell a very different story. If it's true that the educations is as good the that's even worse as it shows just how big an effect rich parents and a prestigious school have when looking for the top jobs like judges and whatnot.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#134
Private schools also make state schools 'worse' because they cream off upper middle class children with caring parents, meaning some comprehensives are disproportionately filled with children who went to poor primaries and can barely read or write.

Then the government say state schools are bad because we don't get A* grades out of kids whose parents barely feed or clothe them. It's a ridiculously two tier system.
#135
Quote by Hydra150
The difference is in the facts that Fender and I have quoted - the education might be as good, but the job prospects tell a very different story. If it's true that the educations is as good the that's even worse as it shows just how big an effect rich parents and a prestigious school have when looking for the top jobs like judges and whatnot.

You know what shows job prospects much better? Good grades! Generally, a student is required to have a certain minimum gpa, in order to remain in a private school.

Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Private schools also make state schools 'worse' because they cream off upper middle class children with caring parents, meaning some comprehensives are disproportionately filled with children who went to poor primaries and can barely read or write.

Then the government say state schools are bad because we don't get A* grades out of kids whose parents barely feed or clothe them. It's a ridiculously two tier system.
Tell me how closing the private schools permanently is going to fix this...

What would actually fix this is if all parents started taking more interest in the education of their kids. In the US (and probably also the UK), many very poor parents don't even care about their kid's education. In fact, many of them don't even care about their kids at all. A lot of them see the public schools as their personal long term daycare service, more than as an educational system.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 2, 2012,
#136
Quote by Hydra150
The difference is in the facts that Fender and I have quoted - the education might be as good, but the job prospects tell a very different story. If it's true that the educations is as good the that's even worse as it shows just how big an effect rich parents and a prestigious school have when looking for the top jobs like judges and whatnot.

I see, but I think there are probably other reasons too. I mean, you've heard the saying, "It's not what you know, it's who you know."

I think the rich kids would still have a gigantic advantage because their parents are already very connected. Like, the University I'm going to now I had to apply for and everything, but I would be kidding myself if I didn't think other family members going here didn't have anything to do with me getting in.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
Last edited by WCPhils at Oct 2, 2012,
#137
Quote by fender_696
Exactly...

Instead of flooding the private schools with lots of wealth, get rid of them and use that money fairly, ideally distributing it evenly across everyone - not just the children of rich people.

I don't see the logic here.
If private schools were abolished, why would the money that would otherwise be spent on them suddenly go towards public schools?
Public schools are paid for by taxes. Private schools are paid with the parents' own money. They decide what they spend it on.
#138
That was more or less the response I expected (and it's totally valid). But I think Sam has a point. If the quality of public schools matched what colleges/unis/employers preceive of private schools, the inequality would vanish, I think. Plus, the popularity of private schools would diminsh as well and many of them would go out of business. Then we can ban them. But until then, I find unfair to stop those that can afford it from getting a better education.

EDIT: That said, people in power would probably take more interest in public education if their kids were forced to use it.

I'm undecided here.
Last edited by Eastwinn at Oct 2, 2012,
#139
Quote by sashki
I don't see the logic here.
If private schools were abolished, why would the money that would otherwise be spent on them suddenly go towards public schools?

Parents could donate money to schools to improve it for their kids As long as schools can't discriminate on which students they let in based on which parents look most charitable, I'm fine with that.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#140
Quote by sashki
I don't see the logic here.
If private schools were abolished, why would the money that would otherwise be spent on them suddenly go towards public schools?
Public schools are paid for by taxes. Private schools are paid with the parents' own money. They decide what they spend it on.

Also, if they spent any money they would be spending it on their children's school which probably isn't in a poor area.

It's not like all of the sudden they would be sending money to inner city schools.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#141
Quote by Eastwinn
But until then, I find unfair to stop those that can afford it from getting a better education.

Is it not unfair to stop those that weren't born into money from getting a better education?
Quote by WCPhils

It's not like all of the sudden they would be sending money to inner city schools.

I don't think it would abolish inequality and nepotism, but I think it would help.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#142
Quote by Hydra150
The fact that the government itself is made up largely of boys who went to the same private school is reason enough for me. It's a symbol of inequality, the class system that Britain hasn't quite fixed. Get rid of them and improve state schools, have those awesome teachers teach the poor kids and the rich, have wealthy parents support ordinary schools (I assume parents can donate to help state schools) so that they improve for everyone, have the rich and the future prime ministers mingling with the working class, have it so that the top universities can't chose their students based on which high school they went to, have it so that a disadvantaged kid can attend the school that is nearest him without a fortune standing in his way. It's inherently unfair - education shouldn't be about money.


We'll have to agree to disagree because I'll never support that "wah, it's SO unfair" argument.

Life is ****ing unfair, so what?

"All men are created equal" is a bunch of crap. Some folks get the shit end of the stick, some get the silver spoon, same as it's ever been.

Would you restrict the food that children of the affluent can eat as well, because after all, a better diet is 'unfair' to those who don't have the means to provide it?

Your reasoning sucks. 'Fairness' is a limp argument dragged out when there simply isn't anything else.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Oct 2, 2012,
#143
Quote by Arby911

Life is ****ing unfair, so what?

So fix it.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#144
There seems to be an explicit British vs. American divide here...

EDIT: And Arby911, I'm a cynical old git myself. I think to myself "what do I think should be best?" and get defeated when I look at the possibilities of that happening.

But I'm sure as hell happy that I'm not you....
Last edited by fender_696 at Oct 2, 2012,
#145
Quote by Hydra150
Is it not unfair to stop those that weren't born into money from getting a better education?


Yes, which is why I call for much improved public education
#146
estwhin stahp
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#147
And I think, fundamentally, it boils down the principles underlying the arguments here.

If you can't fathom why people argue it's unfair that certain children get a better education based on their parents wealth, then I think we will simply have to agree to disagree...
#148
Quote by Hydra150
Parents could donate money to schools to improve it for their kids As long as schools can't discriminate on which students they let in based on which parents look most charitable, I'm fine with that.

They already pay for it with tax money. What would make them inclined to donate even more? If you're paying out of your own pocket, then how is that different to a private school?

Also, I think any school that relies on donations will be naturally biased towards wealthier families, especially when the government funding is cut and they get desperate.
If certain people can contribute more to the school than others, then some discrimination is inevitable.
#149
Quote by Hydra150
So fix it.


Why?

Unfair is exclusively a human opinion, and thus can't be 'fixed'.

Is it 'unfair' that I was born with physical limitations that prevented me from becoming a Naval Aviator (eyesight)?

No, it's just the way it is.

OTOH I was born in a wealthy industrialized nation...

In my opinion I got a bargain, but it has nothing to do with fair and unfair.

Your premise is really just a thinly veiled attempt to force your own personal values on others, allegedly for the 'greater good', even though said 'good' can't be shown to actually be the case.

No better than a zealot trying to establish a state religion, really...

Quote by fender_696

EDIT: And Arby911, I'm a cynical old git myself. I think to myself "what do I think should be best?" and get defeated when I look at the possibilities of that happening.

But I'm sure as hell happy that I'm not you....


Yeah, pragmatists are generally far less popular than dreamers, but I can live with that.

I'm glad you're not me either, I like being me...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Oct 2, 2012,
#150
Quote by Arby911

Is it 'unfair' that I was born with physical limitations that prevented me from becoming a Naval Aviator (eyesight)?

No, it's just the way it is.

Nah, there's nothing that could be done about that.

There's a lot that could be done about the education system, though.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#151
Quote by Arby911
Why?

Unfair is exclusively a human opinion, and thus can't be 'fixed'.

Permission to disagree.

Life isn't always fair but that doesn't mean we should just accept defeat, especially when it's possible to improve the situation. I don't know if the divide in the education system can ever be completely closed, but it can certainly be reduced. However, I don't think abolishing private schools will accomplish that.
#152
Quote by Hydra150
Nah, there's nothing that could be done about that.

There's a lot that could be done about the education system, though.


If that's the tack you want to take, please revert to diet.

Also, how will you restrict the social interaction of the children of the wealthy?

How about travel opportunities, do we limit them as well?

Or safer vehicles?

How far are you willing to go down this 'fair' path?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#153
Quote by Hydra150
Nah, there's nothing that could be done about that.

There's a lot that could be done about the education system, though.

I'm not really sure what good abolishing private education would do for state schools, though.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#154
Quote by sashki
Permission to disagree.

Life isn't always fair but that doesn't mean we should just accept defeat, especially when it's possible to improve the situation. I don't know if the divide in the education system can ever be completely closed, but it can certainly be reduced. However, I don't think abolishing private schools will accomplish that.


I agree, my point here is that restricting one group so as to make things appear more 'fair' isn't justifiable on any rational grounds.

But advancing another to try and give everyone the best opportunity possible, at least consistent with the very real constraints that exist? I'm fully in support of that.

Too many times people feel that because I'm not ready to 'screw the rich', that I'm automagically an opponent of the poor, and that's a pathetic inferential distortion of the truth.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#155
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm not really sure what good abolishing private education would do for state schools, though.


The people in power (rich folks that send their kids to private school) would have to send their kids to public school instead and therefore actually care about public school.
#156
Quote by Arby911
I agree, my point here is that restricting one group so as to make things appear more 'fair' isn't justifiable on any rational grounds.

But advancing another to try and give everyone the best opportunity possible, at least consistent with the very real constraints that exist? I'm fully in support of that.

Too many times people feel that because I'm not ready to 'screw the rich', that I'm automagically an opponent of the poor, and that's a pathetic inferential distortion of the truth.


There's no restriction. In giving all students the same educational experience you are pulling students up, not pulling some down.


Private schools also have notoriously bad teaching because there are no quality checks like in state schools, so if anything it helps the rich kids get a better education.


Finland has the best education system in the world and private schools are banned there.
#157
Quote by Eastwinn
The people in power (rich folks that send their kids to private school) would have to send their kids to public school instead and therefore actually care about public school.

More likely, they'd get their kids into the best public schools that already exist.
Which would be overcrowded, given that they'd have to suddenly cope with all the ex-private students.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#158
Quote by Hydra150
Parents could donate money to schools to improve it for their kids As long as schools can't discriminate on which students they let in based on which parents look most charitable, I'm fine with that.

How could you possibly enforce a ban on education? Raiding schools with SWAT teams and burning the books? What kind of stone age bullshit are you trying to pull here?

*kids learning*

"**** YOU RICH BASTARDS" *uzi fire*

Because if you don't enforce it, people with means will just laugh at you. And if you do enforce it, you're a terrible cuntbastard of a "human" being.

Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
There's no restriction. In giving all students the same educational experience you are pulling students up, not pulling some down.

Yes, just deny the truth, that'll make it go away!

Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Private schools also have notoriously bad teaching because there are no quality checks like in state schools, so if anything it helps the rich kids get a better education.



Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Finland has the best education system in the world and private schools are banned there.

My mom makes the best pie, and she uses rocks in it. I'm telling you man, it's the best.
Last edited by captaincrunk at Oct 2, 2012,
#159
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
There's no restriction. In giving all students the same educational experience you are pulling students up, not pulling some down.


Private schools also have notoriously bad teaching because there are no quality checks like in state schools, so if anything it helps the rich kids get a better education.



Finland has the best education system in the world and private schools are banned there.


From personal experience and from recent changes in government policy in the Netherlands I can confirm this.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#160
Quote by Eastwinn
The people in power (rich folks that send their kids to private school) would have to send their kids to public school instead and therefore actually care about public school.

It doesn't matter if rich people care about public school. Caring about things doesn't fix them. If you want more money from rich people to pay for schools, tax them more. You're the goddamn government. You have this ability, use it and quit banning shit out of jealousy and ignorance.