Poll: ?
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I went to a state school and would not send my child to a private school.
69 42%
I went to a state school and would send my child to a private school.
45 27%
I went to a private school and would not send my child to a private school.
12 7%
I went to a private school and would send my child to a private school.
38 23%
Voters: 164.
Page 5 of 8
#161
Quote by slapsymcdougal
More likely, they'd get their kids into the best public schools that already exist.
Which would be overcrowded, given that they'd have to suddenly cope with all the ex-private students.


Overcrowded doesn't exist. There's a set number of student places per year per school and if they are all filled, students have to go to a different school instead. You can't just cram some schools full of kids and let others sit empty.
#162
Quote by slapsymcdougal
More likely, they'd get their kids into the best public schools that already exist.
Which would be overcrowded, given that they'd have to suddenly cope with all the ex-private students.


Nah. We'd have to brace the public schools for the new influx anyway.
#163
Quote by captaincrunk
How could you possibly enforce a ban on education? Raiding schools with SWAT teams and burning the books? What kind of stone age bullshit are you trying to pull here?

*kids learning*

"**** YOU RICH BASTARDS" *uzi fire*

Because if you don't enforce it, people with means will just laugh at you. And if you do enforce it, you're a terrible cuntbastard of a "human" being.


Yes, just deny the truth, that'll make it go away!





My mom makes the best pie, and she uses rocks in it. I'm telling you man, it's the best.



Finland tops PISA scales for education. But you know that I had evidence for that statement, you're just being a prick.
#164
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Overcrowded doesn't exist. There's a set number of student places per year per school and if they are all filled, students have to go to a different school instead. You can't just cram some schools full of kids and let others sit empty.

*German accent*

Zese offspring vill be placed here, and zese here! Zey are not to intermingle, lest they be contaminated! Heil Meritocracy! Down with intelligence!
#165
Quote by captaincrunk
It doesn't matter if rich people care about public school. Caring about things doesn't fix them. If you want more money from rich people to pay for schools, tax them more. You're the goddamn government. You have this ability, use it and quit banning shit out of jealousy and ignorance.


I am not the government, I am Ean.

Also, I'm undecided still.
#166
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Finland tops PISA scales for education. But you know that I had evidence for that statement, you're just being a prick.

It doesn't matter, though, because education cannot be so simply quantified. But I know you're just being a prick.
#167
Quote by captaincrunk
*German accent*

Zese offspring vill be placed here, and zese here! Zey are not to intermingle, lest they be contaminated! Heil Meritocracy! Down with intelligence!



Oh shut up.

Yeah, let's just let parents send kids wherever they want! This school only has desks for 100 children, but the customer is always right, cram 500 in there! And fire those lazy teachers if any of the kids fail!

And of course you can quantify education. What an ignorant thing to say.
Last edited by Mistress_Ibanez at Oct 2, 2012,
#168
Unless the state schools were terrible, No.

I went to a state school, and did very well out of it. All my cousins who went to private schools have actually done worse than me, when you look at grades at school and uni degrees.
Quote by Kensai


Awesome guy right here
#169
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
There's no restriction. In giving all students the same educational experience you are pulling students up, not pulling some down.


Private schools also have notoriously bad teaching because there are no quality checks like in state schools, so if anything it helps the rich kids get a better education.


Finland has the best education system in the world and private schools are banned there.


1. Nonsense, and provably so. Not unexpected from you though.

2. Again false, and again provable.

3. According to the UN education index Finland does indeed have an excellent education system, as does Cuba, and private schools don't exist in either place.

They have exactly the same ranking as New Zealand, Denmark and Australia, all of whom DO have private schools.

Do you even bother to research your drivel, or do you just make it up on the fly?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#171
Quote by Arby911
1. Nonsense, and provably so. Not unexpected from you though.

2. Again false, and again provable.

3. According to the UN education index Finland does indeed have an excellent education system, as does Cuba, and private schools don't exist in either place.

They have exactly the same ranking as New Zealand, Denmark and Australia, all of whom DO have private schools.

Do you even bother to research your drivel, or do you just make it up on the fly?


Which bit wasn't researched? It's true that private schools are banned in Finland. You know that to be true too.
#172
Quote by captaincrunk
How could you possibly enforce a ban on education? Raiding schools with SWAT teams and burning the books? What kind of stone age bullshit are you trying to pull here?

*kids learning*

"**** YOU RICH BASTARDS" *uzi fire*

Because if you don't enforce it, people with means will just laugh at you. And if you do enforce it, you're a terrible cuntbastard of a "human" being.


Yes, just deny the truth, that'll make it go away!

love you too bb
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#173
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Which bit wasn't researched? It's true that private schools are banned in Finland. You know that to be true too.

You see, the bit where you claimed where public schools are better than private schools and private schools have a negative impact on education. Then he, you know, provided a statistic that points to the contrary in his post.
#174
Quote by captaincrunk
It doesn't matter if rich people care about public school.

It matters if the people who make decisions about the education system (senior gov't ministers like Michael Gove) care about state school.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#175
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Which bit wasn't researched? It's true that private schools are banned in Finland. You know that to be true too.


Apparently none of it was. I just perused the PISA report and it appears Shanghai - China kicked everyone's ass in every category, your Finland claim notwithstanding.

And China allows private schools...

I already conceded that Finland disallowed private schools?

Neither the PISA report nor the UN report provide a shred of evidence that prohibiting private schools advances public education.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#176
Quote by Thrashtastic15
You see, the bit where you claimed where public schools are better than private schools and private schools have a negative impact on education. Then he, you know, provided a statistic that points to the contrary in his post.


I don't think Public Schools are per se better than Private Schools, but we had a lot of trouble here in the Netherlands with Private schools simply giving easy exams (which was 50% of your final grade), whereas their students would totally fluke the central exams (also 50%), so eventually they would get a degree while obviously not knowing the stuff. The changed the rules because of it.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#177
Quote by Arby911
Apparently none of it was. I just perused the PISA report and it appears Shanghai - China kicked everyone's ass in every category, your Finland claim notwithstanding.

And China allows private schools...

I already conceded that Finland disallowed private schools?

Neither the PISA report nor the UN report provide a shred of evidence that prohibiting private schools advances public education.

Um... 'The' Pisa report? Which one? There is one every year. Which year are you looking at because Finland have been top for years.


Chinese education is notoriously poor. Rote memorisation and mass cheating because teachers fear for their jobs. Good results don't mean good teaching.


And yeah, everybody's mad because I'm right
#178
All you have to do is convince the rich people that it's cheaper to send their kids to public school and help their little angels grasp concepts through their excessive funds in a manner that is more cost-effective and, well, just plain more effective than private school. Or maybe the rich Canadian people I went to school with were just craftier and knew that private school was a ridiculous waste. Just hire private tutors and the like if they are having issues with a particular subject.
#179
Quote by Thrashtastic15
All you have to do is convince the rich people that it's cheaper to send their kids to public school and help their little angels grasp concepts through their excessive funds in a manner that is more cost-effective and, well, just plain more effective than private school. Or maybe the rich Canadian people I went to school with were just craftier and knew that private school was a ridiculous waste. Just hire private tutors and the like if they are having issues with a particular subject.

Or maybe Canadian public schools aren't as bad as in other countries, giving parents less of an incentive to send their kids to private schools.
#180
Quote by Thrashtastic15
All you have to do is convince the rich people that it's cheaper to send their kids to public school and help their little angels grasp concepts through their excessive funds in a manner that is more cost-effective and, well, just plain more effective than private school. Or maybe the rich Canadian people I went to school with were just craftier and knew that private school was a ridiculous waste. Just hire private tutors and the like if they are having issues with a particular subject.


That's my point.


In the UK, private school isn't about results, it's about segregation. "Oh I couldn't possibly send little Tarquin and Petunia to a school where they'll mingle with children from the council estates!"

For as long as that disgusting attitude prevails, there will be people coming up with ridiculous ways of justifying the social segregation of private schools.
#181
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Um... 'The' Pisa report? Which one? There is one every year. Which year are you looking at because Finland have been top for years.


Chinese education is notoriously poor. Rote memorisation and mass cheating because teachers fear for their jobs. Good results don't mean good teaching.


And yeah, everybody's mad because I'm right

No, you've yet to demonstrate a causal relationship between Finland's banning of private schooling and their reported successes.
If banning private schooling won't improve state schools, why bother?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#182
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Overcrowded doesn't exist. There's a set number of student places per year per school and if they are all filled, students have to go to a different school instead. You can't just cram some schools full of kids and let others sit empty.


I watched the BBC evening news the other day. There's been a boom in birth rates in the Midlands, there's class sizes averaging 30 in multiple primary schools.

My class size in the equivalent of primary school was 12. There was another class with 11. That was the whole school year.

There's plenty of overcrowding in the state system and it's not good at all.

Private School offer far better facilities and opportunities aswell as a better education.
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.'

'You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.'
Last edited by digman50 at Oct 2, 2012,
#183
Quote by Hydra150
It matters if the people who make decisions about the education system (senior gov't ministers like Michael Gove) care about state school.

That's a problem with the electoral system that you perpetuate.
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Oh shut up.

Yeah, let's just let parents send kids wherever they want! This school only has desks for 100 children, but the customer is always right, cram 500 in there! And fire those lazy teachers if any of the kids fail!

With more students (and more tuition) you can buy more desks, more land, more parking, more teachers, more everything. That's part of why private education is so nice.
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
And of course you can quantify education. What an ignorant thing to say.

Go ahead, how many units of education (and it must be perfectly comparable to someone else with the same number of units) have you received? I'll wait while you tally that up, sweetheart.
Quote by Thrashtastic15
All you have to do is convince the rich people that it's cheaper to send their kids to public school and help their little angels grasp concepts through their excessive funds in a manner that is more cost-effective and, well, just plain more effective than private school. Or maybe the rich Canadian people I went to school with were just craftier and knew that private school was a ridiculous waste. Just hire private tutors and the like if they are having issues with a particular subject.

You don't understand, you can't allow private tutors. It gives wealthy people a leg up, and is "unfair". No, I'm not joking.

For example, let's suppose that during the summer months when some schools give an extended break, you wanted to send your child to a summer camp that educated them. Well, it can't be a private, accredited school, because private ones are banned. You see, those private, illegal tutoring programs makes the poor people stupid because they can't afford to go.

The argument isn't even being overextended here, I've heard many people on this site argue this same thing. Possibly even Mistress Ibanez.
#184
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Um... 'The' Pisa report? Which one? There is one every year. Which year are you looking at because Finland have been top for years.


Chinese education is notoriously poor. Rote memorisation and mass cheating because teachers fear for their jobs. Good results don't mean good teaching.


And yeah, everybody's mad because I'm right


http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/2011004.pdf

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/index.asp

"Begun in 2000, PISA is administered every 3 years."

Care to try again?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#185
Not to mention that the PISA is apparently about with 15 year olds, who are stupid to begin with. Banning private schools means from top to bottom, pre school (daycare centers? who knows!) to post graduate education.
#186
Quote by digman50
I watched the BBC evening news the other day. There's been a boom in birth rates in the Midlands, there's class sizes averaging 30 in multiple primary schools.

My class size in the equivalent of primary school was 12. There was another class with 11. That was the whole school year.

There's plenty of overcrowding in the state system and it's not good at all.

Private School offer far better facilities and opportunities aswell as a better education.


You were lucky. 30 is and always has been normal. Every school I've been to or taught at has class sizes of 30.


And crunk, really can't be bothered to humour you when I'm posting from my phone and each word is an effort to type, but what you're referring to exists, is a very normal way of measuring schools, and is called Contextual Value Added. A school's CVA points tells you how good it is, as it measures how much learning has happened at the school.
#187
After the bannage of private schools for 70 years here in Russia, the only results we've got:

1) Rich parents just send their kids to study overseas.

2) Other rich parents just corrupt state educational system by making the best public schools semi private. Like, yeah, you can study here for free, just pay some unofficial fee otherwise your kid will have problems.

Common guys, Russia is the living sample of how the pursuit for equality can **** the things up. No need to follow this path.

Another thing I can't understand is why the social diversity of the pupils is actually considered good? I've studied for 10 years in the shitty public school in bad part of town. There were junkies, criminals and all kind of aggressive retards as a pupils. I've learnt how to fight and more importantly how to avoid fights, if this is the "school of life" then **** it. I hope I'll find a way for my kid to avoid that.
#188
Quote by slapsymcdougal

If banning private schooling won't improve state schools, why bother?

In my opinion (and I know there are plenty here who disagree) the two-tier education system is inherently elitist and perpetuates the class system in the UK, which is reason enough to do something about it. Most of the most powerful people in the country are alumni from prestigious (and expensive) private schools which in itself is bad for the rest of the kids, as it biases their judgement against state schools. I would prefer less segregation between the powerful and the penniless, so that politicians and the like understand what life is like outside their upper-middle class bubble. The best universities favourthose from these schools, partly because of better grades I'm sure, but I don't think that's the only factor.
I wish they weren't a fact of life in the UK, and would change how stuff works - maybe it has a notable effect on state schools, maybe it doesnt I don't know wnough to predict that.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#189
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
That's my point.


In the UK, private school isn't about results, it's about segregation. "Oh I couldn't possibly send little Tarquin and Petunia to a school where they'll mingle with children from the council estates!"

For as long as that disgusting attitude prevails, there will be people coming up with ridiculous ways of justifying the social segregation of private schools.


Why would I want to mingle with kids from council estates?

I want to be with the section of society that I come from and be with like-minded people in similar situations and from similar backgrounds.

What do I have to gain from mixing with the lower sections of society?
There's plenty of negatives that would come with that but I can't see many positives
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.'

'You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.'
#190
Quote by captaincrunk
That's a problem with the electoral system that you perpetuate.

7% of the British population attended independent schools, yet 75% of judges, 70% of finance directors and 45% of top civil servants have been privately educated. I didn't elect those people.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#191
Quote by digman50
Why would I want to mingle with kids from council estates?

I want to be with the section of society that I come from and be with like-minded people in similar situations and from similar backgrounds.

What do I have to gain from mixing with the lower sections of society?
There's plenty of negatives that would come with that but I can't see many positives

#192
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
You were lucky. 30 is and always has been normal. Every school I've been to or taught at has class sizes of 30.



I went to and still go to a private school, it's not luck.

I've never been in a class where I've there's been more than 20 people, including the teacher.

Why would I want my kids in a worse situation for their education because it makes me look morally superior to the left wingers?
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.'

'You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.'
#193
Quote by digman50
What do I have to gain from mixing with the lower sections of society?
There's plenty of negatives that would come with that but I can't see many positives

You could learn to stop regarding them as inferior.
#194
Quote by Hydra150
7% of the British population attended independent schools, yet 75% of judges, 70% of finance directors and 45% of top civil servants have been privately educated. I didn't elect those people.


That's all well and good. Can you now show evidence that the numbers you've provided are having a detrimental effect on society? Is there any evidence whatsoever that if the numbers were in direct proportion to the public/private school divide that your nation would be better off?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#195
Quote by Hydra150
7% of the British population attended independent schools, yet 75% of judges, 70% of finance directors and 45% of top civil servants have been privately educated. I didn't elect those people.

You shouldn't elect civil servants. Ever. If you did, then they'd be making policy, instead of enacting it.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#196
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
And crunk, really can't be bothered to humour you when I'm posting from my phone and each word is an effort to type, but what you're referring to exists, is a very normal way of measuring schools, and is called Contextual Value Added. A school's CVA points tells you how good it is, as it measures how much learning has happened at the school.

That's what the people who use it proclaim, sure. But the idea that it does so well? Laughable. Scientific literacy, oh my! Testing, oh my!

The fact remains that you're using a poor, operationally defined definition of learning. We don't even have a consistently applicable definition of intelligence, and you want to measure something's affect on it.
Quote by Hydra150
In my opinion (and I know there are plenty here who disagree) the two-tier education system is inherently elitist and perpetuates the class system in the UK, which is reason enough to do something about it. Most of the most powerful people in the country are alumni from prestigious (and expensive) private schools which in itself is bad for the rest of the kids, as it biases their judgement against state schools. I would prefer less segregation between the powerful and the penniless, so that politicians and the like understand what life is like outside their upper-middle class bubble. The best universities favourthose from these schools, partly because of better grades I'm sure, but I don't think that's the only factor.
I wish they weren't a fact of life in the UK, and would change how stuff works - maybe it has a notable effect on state schools, maybe it doesnt I don't know wnough to predict that.

Look, either private school doesn't provide good education (Mistress Ibanez's argument), or they're too good and it's not fair for "normal" people (your argument). You can't have both.
Quote by digman50
Why would I want to mingle with kids from council estates?

I want to be with the section of society that I come from and be with like-minded people in similar situations and from similar backgrounds.

What do I have to gain from mixing with the lower sections of society?
There's plenty of negatives that would come with that but I can't see many positives

Perspective. But, you won't really get perspective in a school. You'd still have rich kids and poor kids in the school. Uniforms can help that somewhat, but you still know who has money and who doesn't.

Quote by Hydra150
7% of the British population attended independent schools, yet 75% of judges, 70% of finance directors and 45% of top civil servants have been privately educated. I didn't elect those people.

they were hired by people you elected, or hired by people who were hired by people you elected. In addition, if the education is good, wouldn't you want to pick from those individuals?
Last edited by captaincrunk at Oct 2, 2012,
#197
Quote by raoooos


Tell me some positives of someone who's from an upper-middle class family and has been surrounded with similar people his whole life being plunged into classes fo 30+ kids from multiple, generally lower, socio-economic backgrounds, many of which aren't at all interested in education.

This is in a school with worse facilities and teaching staff.

Where's the benefits in that for me?
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.'

'You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.'
#198
Quote by sashki
You could learn to stop regarding them as inferior.


Many of them are though
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.'

'You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.'
#199
Quote by digman50
Tell me some positives of someone who's from an upper-middle class family and has been surrounded with similar people his whole life being plunged into classes fo 30+ kids from multiple, generally lower, socio-economic backgrounds, many of which aren't at all interested in education.

This is in a school with worse facilities and teaching staff.

Where's the benefits in that for me?



Waaah. You might learn that peasants are normal people too and become less of a bigot.


FWIW class size is determined by the school too. I teach at a school on a "sink estate" with no class over 20 on the head's say so. I taught in a leafy middle class comp with unmanageable out of control classes of 35. The intake really doesn't determine teaching quality.


Also, worse teachers in comps? **** off. Most private teachers aren't even qualified. What a ridiculous thing to say
#200
To be fair, private schools to have the luxury of staging nice little shindigs like this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiTvLZ5TKR4

I like the song at 12 minutes.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Oct 2, 2012,