#1
Alright, Alice n chains right turn contains chords g major and e major...is there a scqle which possess bot g and g sharp or is the sharp used in e major an accidental?....
#3
Quote by plitedextrosity
Alright, Alice n chains right turn contains chords g major and e major...is there a scqle which possess bot g and g sharp or is the sharp used in e major an accidental?....


Find the key, identify out-of-key notes. The scale is x major/minor (same as the key) with xyz accidentals (notes you found out of key).
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#4
the A flat major scale contains G and A flat, which is the same pitch as G sharp
Last edited by nova420 at Oct 1, 2012,
#5
^and is also not contained within an e major chord, thus rendering your response completely irrelevant
Last edited by :-D at Oct 1, 2012,
#7
E Major Blues Scale E, F#, G, G#, B, C#. The D in the G major chord is added and would an "out of key" note, as its technically b7. But as my Music History prof has indicated, music analysis can be very ambiguous at times.
#8
Quote by plitedextrosity
or is the sharp used in e major an accidental?....


This.

There are lots of common ways that you can use a non-diatonic chord in a song. You can borrow chords from the parallel minor. You can use a secondary dominant. There are all sorts of other common tricks.

Don't think that it has to mean a key change.
#9
Let's not be weirded out when the notes in a song don't fit into one diatonic scale. We needn't spend time looking for another scale either.
#11
Quote by plitedextrosity
Well, I got more than just the answer I was looking for.....

You think? check this out:

modes

Now just sit back and wait for em to come, dex..... its like shooting fish in a barrel
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#13
@ 350.....I haven't gotten into modes @ all, or too much theory for that, I'm a lazy player, ill strike a chord or note then play whatever sounds good to me next, its then that I'll go back pin point the notes chords n determine the scale n key, the fish around that for bridges chorus etc.....It wouldn't hurt to sme some formalized lessons...
#14
Nah ignore the whole modes thing dex..... I was just trying to incite a flame war... modes are a wank.... next time I have an urge like that, I'll simply sticky-tape breadcrumbs to a window and watch birds batter themselves to death....

Quote by plitedextrosity
ill strike a chord or note then play whatever sounds good to me next, its then that I'll go back pin point the notes chords n determine the scale n key, the fish around that for bridges chorus etc

thats not a bad way of doing things, you know...not a bad way at all
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#15
Modes... MODES!!!

Awe man don't do that shit. Now I done gone all super saiyan for nothin.
I'm an
Engeneer
Enginear
Enginere

I'm Good at Math
#17
ya scales are pretty shit, you should definitely just wing it in improvisation, and noodle around until you get what you like rather than building a foundation of what notes work with what types of chords ,or sequences of chords.
#19
Quote by chronowarp
you should definitely just wing it in improvisation, and noodle around until you get what you like rather than building a foundation of what notes work with what types of chords ,or sequences of chords...


No you shouldn't

Quote by chronowarp
...rather than building a foundation of what notes work with what types of chords ,or sequences of chords.


That has nothing to do with scales, rather tension + resolution.
#20
Quote by griffRG7321
No you shouldn't


That has nothing to do with scales, rather tension + resolution.

man

i really hope you don't teach people, i'd really hate to see how they come out.

"what scale do i use over this C-F-Am-G progression?"
"****ING NOOB SCALES ARE FOR KIDS"
"JUST PLAY NOOTES FOR A WHILE THAT SOUND GOOD, THEN YA, RESOLVE THEM AND STUFF, YA!"

This forum is so **** eyed and backwards it blows my mind sometimes. People here take generalities that may be relevant in specific situations and expand them to encompass their entire musical experience to the point of it being severely detrimental in communicating the simplest concepts to other people.
Last edited by chronowarp at Oct 5, 2012,
#21
Quote by chronowarp
This forum is so **** eyed and backwards it blows my mind sometimes. People here take generalities that may be relevant in specific situations and expand them to encompass their entire musical experience to the point of it being severely detrimental in communicating the simplest concepts to other people.

#23
Quote by chronowarp
man

i really hope you don't teach people, i'd really hate to see how they come out.

"what scale do i use over this C-F-Am-G progression?"
"****ING NOOB SCALES ARE FOR KIDS"
"JUST PLAY NOOTES FOR A WHILE THAT SOUND GOOD, THEN YA, RESOLVE THEM AND STUFF, YA!"

This forum is so **** eyed and backwards it blows my mind sometimes. People here take generalities that may be relevant in specific situations and expand them to encompass their entire musical experience to the point of it being severely detrimental in communicating the simplest concepts to other people.


Way to take my post entirely out of context.

Have fun teaching kids to play mixolydian over dominant 7ths chords.
#24
^lol

You think realizing the merit of using scales as the backbone or an important segment of your organizational method on the guitar is "lol modes over chord specific chord types he he"?
#25
Quote by :-D


How about you stop posting pointless images and llamas and actually write some music?

Just a little food for thought.

Quote by chronowarp

"what scale do i use over this C-F-Am-G progression?"


I'm guessing you would tell the guy to use C major over it, which is fine.

There are another 5 notes though.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Oct 5, 2012,
#26
Quote by griffRG7321
How about you stop posting pointless images and llamas and actually write some music?

why would i do this exactly

also "stop posting pointless stuff" in mt

heh

you realize that if people stopped posting dumb images and memes, as well as the regurgitated circlejerking bullshit that populates the response area of 99% of threads, you might as well just rename this forum to "CLOSED"
Last edited by :-D at Oct 5, 2012,
#27
Quote by griffRG7321
How about you stop posting pointless images and llamas and actually write some music?

Just a little food for thought.


I'm guessing you would tell the guy to use C major over it, which is fine.

There are another 5 notes though.

So he should practice, conceptualize, and approach soloing over that progression as if all 12 notes are equally valid and stable over that set of chords?

Hmm, no, you see, that's why that "lol scales" perspective is retardedly misleading for a beginner...if you have nothing to anchor you into what is central to the key, and what notes are integral to the harmony that you're playing over...then how can you expand outwards if you don't even have that base?

It's not hard for someone like you and me, because we intuitively understand what's happening both aurally and theoretically...but how did you get there?
Last edited by chronowarp at Oct 5, 2012,
#28
Understanding which notes sound stable over which chords just involves knowing the chord tones though, bringing in scales makes just makes the process unwieldy - there's more than one set of seven notes that could work over any particular chord. Understanding that chord tones sound stable and that non-chord tones will want to resolve to chord tones is an easier and more open approach than cramming their heads with dozens of scales.
.
#29
^thankyou

Obviously learning diatonic major and minor harmony is important for a beginner, but once that is understood, you don't want to be thinking in 100 different scales, you want to be thinking in terms of consonance and dissonance.
#30
Quote by Nietsche
Understanding which notes sound stable over which chords just involves knowing the chord tones though, bringing in scales makes just makes the process unwieldy - there's more than one set of seven notes that could work over any particular chord. Understanding that chord tones sound stable and that non-chord tones will want to resolve to chord tones is an easier and more open approach than cramming their heads with dozens of scales.

Dozens of scales...?

In most cases, especially with beginners like this, there's only going to be one scale being used...or there will be a chromatic harmony that just means they need to avoid a certain note/replace it with another.

It's much more difficult for a beginner to play "just chord tones", because it involves many more shapes to play over the same set of chords...and will most likely result in even more fragmented, and unnatural sounding lines ... as they'll be missing the fluff that comes w/ a scale that is already inclusive to all these shapes!
#31
Quote by griffRG7321
^thankyou

Obviously learning diatonic major and minor harmony is important for a beginner, but once that is understood, you don't want to be thinking in 100 different scales, you want to be thinking in terms of consonance and dissonance.

Well who the **** is saying learn 100 scales?
In rock...you're either using maj/min pent or the major scale...maybe harmonic minor.
in jazz the only thing you're usually throwing into the mix is mel minor and hw dim...

That's not a lot to learn...especially if you're just playing rock tunes.
#32
^what happened here is very simple

the question asked had nothing to do with why "scales are stupid" or whatever was mentioned last page

like absolutely ****ing nothing

the only way people try to support this argument in a case like this is by extrapolating "x notes are in x scale" to an absolutely comical degree

voila "billion scales blah blah blah"
Last edited by :-D at Oct 6, 2012,
#33
The F Dorian and C Minor scales have both G and G#, but no E. if i had to guess, the E was probably just an accidental.
#34
Quote by brandon12502
The F Dorian and C Minor scales have both G and G#, but no E. if i had to guess, the E was probably just an accidental.

all kinds of no
#35
Oh huh, I was just asking a basic question on whether the progression contained an accidental, or if there is a key which contains g and g#....but the direction taken lead into some dark theoretical world where a war has been cold for some time....I am a log time beginner, n should know a hell loads more theory n knowledge than I possess, so even tho I couldn't debate, I do understand what's goin on....but I am led to believe some feel that using your ear n playing what feels good based on what mood or sound one would be trying to obtain, and others strictly forging the path of using scales and chords to mathematically come to the some what same equivalent.....so why would it matter which method one would use, as I do, find what feels right, n determine which scale takes me where I would like to go?....
#36
^^^ If you ignore the tonal context, the answer could be literally any scale.

So the answer could be Ab if the tonal center is at Ab. It could be F minor if the tonal center is at F. If the tonal center is at D you could be using the D blues scale. If it's at C# you could be using the C# blues scale. It goes on and on and until you find where the tonal center is all these scale names are useless.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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