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#81
Quote by devourke
my mistake the prosecutors are considering to charge her as an adult.

Looks like she knew it took a breath.

You have a pulse well before (months before) you take a breath. There's nothing in that statement to imply she knew the child was already breathing. Half of people probably think doctors still spank a child to make it breathe.

EDIT: Reading it again maybe she did know. I'm not saying the girl thought that what she did would be perfectly legal, obviously not she hid the body (though maybe more from her parents than anything else). But did she think that stopping the child from breathing (which of course stops it from, well, being alive) was better than trying to raise a child, explaining it to her parents, all of that? For her the decision might have looked a lot more like an abortion than what O.J. Simpson went through. And for that reason, I don't think it's fair to call her a murderer.
Last edited by captaincrunk at Oct 3, 2012,
#82
This is one of the top 10 most ****ed up things I've ever read. I got chills all over envisioning her choking the baby, with blood all over the place and... ugh.

It's good she's going to some sort of correctional facility, her parents are not the ones who should be taking care of her. Who doesn't notice their 14 year old daughter is pregnant, baggy clothes or not?
Last edited by Rockford_rocks at Oct 3, 2012,
#83
Quote by captaincrunk
I don't think the story is really true.

How ahead of the game could she be??


You never know. She could be a very intelligent sociopath that's counting on the court to consider her age and situation so she can get off easier.

Just saying
Trust me, I'm a Jedi.

Quote by Minkaro
You must control your use of the force, young Trizek.
#84
Quote by Rockford_rocks
This is one of the top 10 most ****ed up things I've ever read. I got chills all over envisioning her choking the baby, with blood all over the place and... ugh.

It's good she's going to some sort of correctional facility, her parents are not the ones who should be taking care of her? Who doesn't notice their 14 year old daughter is pregnant, baggy clothes or not?


no kidding. it wasn't premature or anything, right? That's almost impossible to hide.

But I do know someone's mom that no one knew was pregnant until the day before. But she had significantly more weight
#85
I find really amazing how the hell they didn´t notice she was pregnant, I mean, ****! 9 months hidding the huge belly when the girl looks skinny, unbelievable. Also, pretty stupid girl for leaving a dead baby in her room.

There's

NEVER

enough

GAIN


#86
Quote by Trizek
You never know. She could be a very intelligent sociopath that's counting on the court to consider her age and situation so she can get off easier.

Just saying

What's more likely, that she's as intelligent as most 14 year olds and therefore isn't really capable of mens rea, or that she's some super intelligent sociopath who planned her pregnancy just so she could choke a baby, and then fail to even get rid of the body?

The very idea of her being "very intelligent" just doesn't fit the story. I'm not even calling her stupid, she's just a 14 year old.

EDIT: To those saying she didn't weigh enough to hide the pregnancy, she was also like 5'2" or something. She was also 14, so puberty/weight gain wouldn't be too surprising.
Last edited by captaincrunk at Oct 3, 2012,
#87
Quote by captaincrunk
**** off, I'm not even going to read this.

Why not? Because it disagrees with you completely?
#88
Quote by whywefight
no kidding. it wasn't premature or anything, right? That's almost impossible to hide.

But I do know someone's mom that no one knew was pregnant until the day before. But she had significantly more weight


The girl's a stick. There's nothing you can do to hide pregnancy when you're about 90 pounds. It did say her mom was "in denial", which implies that she was at least suspicious... but COME ON. I have so many questions for the parents (or parent? I've heard nothing about her father).
#90
Quote by captaincrunk
What's more likely, that she's as intelligent as most 14 year olds and therefore isn't really capable of mens rea, or that she's some super intelligent sociopath who planned her pregnancy just so she could choke a baby, and then fail to even get rid of the body?

The very idea of her being "very intelligent" just doesn't fit the story. I'm not even calling her stupid, she's just a 14 year old.


Both seem to be murder to me
#91
Quote by captaincrunk
What's more likely, that she's as intelligent as most 14 year olds and therefore isn't really capable of mens rea, or that she's some super intelligent sociopath who planned her pregnancy just so she could choke a baby, and then fail to even get rid of the body?

The very idea of her being "very intelligent" just doesn't fit the story. I'm not even calling her stupid, she's just a 14 year old.

I'm just gonna tell myself that you're trolling everyone and not read this thread anymore. Because if you believe any of the stuff you're saying then you're fucking stupid.
#92
Quote by Thrill-house
I'm just gonna tell myself that you're trolling everyone and not read this thread anymore. Because if you believe any of the stuff you're saying then you're fucking stupid.

You want to kill a 14 year old girl. You said that, you typed it out, you even said you weren't joking.

I'm gonna tell myself that you live pretty far away from me, and probably won't be near my future children.
#93
Yup, I'm with crunk all the way here. It's a matter of a guilty mind. I don't think she had one.
#94
Quote by Thrill-house
I'm just gonna tell myself that you're trolling everyone and not read this thread anymore. Because if you believe any of the stuff you're saying then you're fucking stupid.
this guy is too much
ggg1 ggg3

.
#95
"Guilty mind" brings a whole new aspect into the argument. I think I know what you mean, but you might try rephrasing.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#96
Quote by captaincrunk
What's more likely, that she's as intelligent as most 14 year olds and therefore isn't really capable of mens rea, or that she's some super intelligent sociopath who planned her pregnancy just so she could choke a baby, and then fail to even get rid of the body?

The very idea of her being "very intelligent" just doesn't fit the story. I'm not even calling her stupid, she's just a 14 year old.


Well, she was smart enough to know and understand sex and to know that pregnancy could possibly follow. She hid the baby because she knew she did something wrong

I also blame her mother, because she was in "denial". I really think she should of looked into her daughters behavior more, this all could of been prevented. But then again, she gave her daughter two pregnancy tests which both showed up negative. So the mother could of used more discernment, and the daughter had a support system (which was her mother whom she didn't confess to being pregnant), but didn't use it.

As for her punishment, I don't think death would be appropriate, but she does need some serious help and and some time to sow the consequences.
Trust me, I'm a Jedi.

Quote by Minkaro
You must control your use of the force, young Trizek.
Last edited by Trizek at Oct 3, 2012,
#97
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Why not? Because it disagrees with you completely?


Yup.

Quote by Thrill-house
I'm just gonna tell myself that you're trolling everyone and not read this thread anymore. Because if you believe any of the stuff you're saying then you're fucking stupid.


He's not. Trust me. But good call.

Quote by captaincrunk
You want to kill a 14 year old girl. You said that, you typed it out, you even said you weren't joking.

I'm gonna tell myself that you live pretty far away from me, and probably won't be near my future children.


How about, lets just not kill anyone and call it a day? This thread conjured a massive amount of butthurt.
#98
Quote by captaincrunk
I can't really even blame her for this. She basically had a post natal abortion.

EDIT: Didn't read the rest of the thread, this isn't a pun or anything. I feel sorry for the poor girl, and don't think the fetus/baby suffered much. Certainly less than the girl would have.

ya that's p much how i feel. lots of overly reactive ppl in this thread
#100
Quote by Eastwinn
Yup, I'm with crunk all the way here. It's a matter of a guilty mind. I don't think she had one.


I mean, it's completely messed up what she did but I'm sure she had no idea what to do. She was scared, backed into a corner, and desperately didn't want her mom to find out about the baby. When you're of an immature mind, you're going to use whatever means necessary. It makes sense, because why would she not get rid of the body? The only explanation is being 14 and having no idea what she was doing.

Yeah, it's ****ed up and I agree those instincts need to be taught out of her ASAP, but I blame the mother way more than I blame her. Even though she was dumb enough to have sex at 13.
#101
Quote by due 07
omg

Seconded this as well.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#102
Quote by Trizek
Well, she was smart enough to know how to have sex and to know that pregnancy could possibly follow.

Smart enough to have sex =/= fully conscious of the consequences in the same way that an adult would be. Also, it doesn't mean she gave consent. Also, it doesn't mean she expected pregnancy. Also, it doesn't mean she didn't try to protect herself if she did, maybe the condom failed.

Quote by Trizek
I also blame her mother, because she was in "denial". I really think she should of looked into her daughters behavior more, this all could of been prevented. But then again, she gave her daughter two pregnancy tests which both showed up negative. So the mother could of used more discernment, and the daughter had a support system (which was her mother whom she didn't confess to being pregnant), but didn't use it.

No arguments here, the mother will definitely be charged with something sooner or later and deserve it. You can't let pride get in the way of your children's safety.


Quote by eGraham
"Guilty mind" brings a whole new aspect into the argument. I think I know what you mean, but you might try rephrasing.

mens rea. basically, is she even capable of committing a crime? A dog can't. An adult, normally functioning human can. Children are somewhere in the middle.
#103
Quote by eGraham
"Guilty mind" brings a whole new aspect into the argument. I think I know what you mean, but you might try rephrasing.


Crunk already brought it up. It's a matter of a) did she intend to do what she did and b) can she understand her actions to a level on which we can hold her liable? A is obviously yes, but B is what we are discussing.
#104
Quote by captaincrunk

mens rea. basically, is she even capable of committing a crime? A dog can't. An adult, normally functioning human can. Children are somewhere in the middle.


Quote by Eastwinn
Crunk already brought it up. It's a matter of a) did she intend to do what she did and b) can she understand her actions to a level on which we can hold her liable? A is obviously yes, but B is what we are discussing.

I see now. Must have missed that bit.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#105
Quote by due 07
omg

I should of phrased that better.

She was smart enough to know and understand sex and that pregnancy could possibly be an outcome.

I'm sure there is more to this, maybe more information will come out later on.
Trust me, I'm a Jedi.

Quote by Minkaro
You must control your use of the force, young Trizek.
#106
Seems to me a fourteen year old killing a child isn't greatly different to a dog killing a child. Neither is really compus mentis.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Last edited by Todd Hart at Oct 3, 2012,
#107
Quote by Rockford_rocks
I mean, it's completely messed up what she did but I'm sure she had no idea what to do. She was scared, backed into a corner, and desperately didn't want her mom to find out about the baby. When you're of an immature mind, you're going to use whatever means necessary. It makes sense, because why would she not get rid of the body? The only explanation is being 14 and having no idea what she was doing.

Exactly.
Quote by whywefight
How about, lets just not kill anyone and call it a day? This thread conjured a massive amount of butthurt.

Butthurt is a phrase used by people who should just leave the conversation instead of trying to stop other people from having civil discourse.
Quote by Rockford_rocks
Yeah, it's ****ed up and I agree those instincts need to be taught out of her ASAP, but I blame the mother way more than I blame her. Even though she was dumb enough to have sex at 13.

We still haven't seen any evidence as to whether the sex was consensual or not. You guys need to be much more sensitive to what is potentially a sexually abused child.
#108
Quote by captaincrunk
I wouldn't know, I didn't read it.

You're quite eloquent, when you're full of shit.

Quote by captaincrunk
We still haven't seen any evidence as to whether the sex was consensual or not. You guys need to be much more sensitive to what is potentially a sexually abused child.

Where's your evidence for such a claim? You can't say shit like that, without evidence. You ought to know better.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 3, 2012,
#109
Quote by Todd Hart
Seems to me a fourteen year old killing a child isn't greatly different to a dog killing a child. Neither are really compus mentis.

So she should be put down?
#110
Quote by MakinLattes
So she should be put down?


Dog's minds don't change, human ones go through a great change at around the age she's at. We put down dogs because dangerous dogs are very rarely recoverable. Humans general are.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#111
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
You're quite eloquent, when you're full of shit.


Where's your evidence for such a claim? You can't say shit like that, without evidence. You ought to know better.

you don't need evidence to claim another claim lacks evidence. you wouldn't know this.
#112
Quote by Thrill-house
They should give her the death penalty.

How would that help?
Quote by Ian_the_fox
You're not girly enough of a boy for me, and you're not man enough to take the top. So like, sorry bitch but you ain't mine! Sorry.
#113
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Where's your evidence for such a claim? You can't say shit like that, without evidence. You ought to know better.

burden of proof does not lie upon senor crunk
#114
Quote by captaincrunk

We still haven't seen any evidence as to whether the sex was consensual or not. You guys need to be much more sensitive to what is potentially a sexually abused child.


Good point, but from the other immature things she's displayed the capability of doing, I'm not giving her much benefit of the doubt. Although her living situation sounds fairly poor.
#115
Quote by Rockford_rocks
Good point, but from the other immature things she's displayed the capability of doing, I'm not giving her much benefit of the doubt. Although her living situation sounds fairly poor.

immature kids can be sexually abused
#116
Quote by Rockford_rocks
Good point, but from the other immature things she's displayed the capability of doing, I'm not giving her much benefit of the doubt. Although her living situation sounds fairly poor.

how would you expect her to behave if she had been raped? this reminds me of something wittgenstein famously said when told that it looks like the sun is going around the earth:

what would it look like if the earth was going around the sun?
#117
maybe the baby wasn't a good son.

...
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#118
It would make sense if she was abused by a family member or someone close to the mother. This would explain her mother's total denial and the girl's actions.
#119
Quote by captaincrunk
you don't need evidence to claim another claim lacks evidence. you wouldn't know this.

You alleged that she might have an abused child. Where's your evidence for that?
#120
Quote by captaincrunk
Butthurt is a phrase used by people who should just leave the conversation instead of trying to stop other people from having civil discourse.


I didn't say to kill the thread. I was just saying that no one really has to be killed here. The baby didn't have to be, and neither does she.