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#1
Hi guys,

I have an AC-15 and love it to bits but as much as its bedroom level sounds are nice, there's a little voice in my head nagging away at me that I'm not making the most of it and I need somewhere to crank it. I live in the city (well, Hobart isn't really much of a city but that's not the point) so the only way I'll be able to do that is to drive somewhere and find a secluded area and go nuts. Yes, I do know being outdoors will ruin it a lot but I'm not concerned about that; I plan on making it pretty loud and being pretty close.

So I have a couple of questions before deciding if it's worth saving up a few hundred bucks for.

Firstly, where it says 100W at the back of the amp, does that mean that's the maximum power it's going to draw, or does it mean it's what to expect at normal levels or what? This concerns me because while a car battery would seem to be able to run something at 100W for a couple of hours, if cranking it will exceed that by a fair amount, I'm not sure it'd be worth it to go ahead.

Secondly, is there any way this could be bad for the amp? What I gather is that I'd need a deep cycle 12v battery, a 12v - 240v inverter, then probably a regulator (then I'd probably stick in a surge protector for good measure as well). I hardly know anything about electronics so I don't know if that's going to give me close enough to what the amp's designed for or if any portable system that isn't made up of super high quality equipment will be inherently unstable and possibly damaging.

Thanks in advance!

PS feel free to point out any other flaws in my crazy plan
#2
you'll be able to run the amp for like 13 seconds.
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#3
Quote by AcousticMirror
you'll be able to run the amp for like 13 seconds.


If that.

The amp would use too much power
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#4
find a way to sound proof your closet and point the amp towards the wall, close door (while running cables underneath of possible). that might be a good possibility.

thats what i would do that go through all this - field in the middle of nowhere mess.

i would somehow seal all the cracks to my closet and door (effectively sealing myself inside my bedroom)

OR

get yourself indoor storage at an storage complex and close yourself inside. some people i know have a climate controlled place where they dont care about bands and its indoor, in the middle of the facility. you could probably crank a full stack in there and from the outside...you MIGHT hear something.
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#5
Quote by AcousticMirror
you'll be able to run the amp for like 13 seconds.


Really? Hmm, I must have the theory completely wrong. I thought 100W at 12V DC = 8.33A draw. One of the batteries I found was 38Ah, so that's a few hours usage. Which part of this am I wrong about?

As for sealing the room, I'm in an apartment where there's glass on one side which loud noise would carry through to people on the other side and there's nothing I can do about the wall between me and my neighbour.

Storage is a good idea but there's no way I can afford that

Edit: Mentioned this to my dad and he suggested a generator, which sounds like a much better choice. Any thoughts about that? I guess it'd be more than enough power but I'd just need to spend a bit more on the stability side of things?
Last edited by fungrified at Oct 3, 2012,
#6
A generator will give you continuos energy which is what you need. I'm pretty sure your amp has a safety feature that it wont start up if it didn't had enough voltage that it needs. Because basically it just takes your AC signals amd turn it into a flat and leveled DC signal which is what you want for a good noise and skip free sound. Using your car baterry isn't going to be practical unless you have enough spares... It could live up to the amperage but if it doesn't have enough power in it thennnnn.... Yeah it wont lite up lol.

Short, go for generator. Amen.
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#7
Quote by AcousticMirror
you'll be able to run the amp for like 13 seconds.

Why? I call bullshit. They make huge inverters that can run just about any household item... Why not an amp?
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Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#9
Yeah I don't know why I didn't think of a generator in the first place! Definitely heading down that track now.

So you reckon I shouldn't need too much in the way of power regulation etc? Will even just a decent surge-protecting powerboard be enough to make sure I don't do any damage?

Keep in mind I probably won't be looking at an expensive generator as even the ones for about $100 are rated for over 700W continuous power so even if they're overstating by a heap I should easily be fine. So if there's anything else with cheap generators I should be particularly careful of, please tell me!

Quote by greeny23
whats the longest power lead you can afford?


Why do you ask? Are you getting at running a cable from the CBD to the middle of nowhere or are you being serious?
Last edited by fungrified at Oct 3, 2012,
#10
Ever since I saw this video I've been wanting to go camping and take my drum kit, a generator and some instruments. It would be awesome as hell to be in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night, and rocking with a full band.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#12
Quote by tubetime86
Ever since I saw this video I've been wanting to go camping and take my drum kit, a generator and some instruments. It would be awesome as hell to be in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night, and rocking with a full band.


Haha brilliant, that cop's awesome.

Cruel Angel, as I mentioned, that's too expensive.
#13
Quote by tubetime86
Why? I call bullshit. They make huge inverters that can run just about any household item... Why not an amp?



you'd get a few hours of random loads on the battery at most, if it was a fresh battery with a deep charge.
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#14
hook a battery up to an inverter, then plug amp into said inverter.
problem solved. it's how they run all the electronics in busses/ campervans ect ect
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Well, technically it could be done, but only in the same way that you could change a cat into a hamburger. It's an unpleasant process, and nobody is happy with the result.
#15
Quote by AcousticMirror
you'd get a few hours of random loads on the battery at most, if it was a fresh battery with a deep charge.

What if the car was running? Why would you shut the car off?
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#16
generators tend to be loud and obnoxious.

there's a couple of quiet ones, you might want to check out.

also, i can run an amp off my car. might be easier modding your car.
Jenneh

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#17
Quote by tubetime86
What if the car was running? Why would you shut the car off?


oh then you can run it forever.

for like 4.5 an hour.

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#18
Quote by AcousticMirror
oh then you can run it forever.

for like 4.5 an hour.


A gallon of gas isn't $4.50 here... And I'm sure cars don't use a gallon of gas per hour when idling.



(Thanks blktiger, love the gif. )
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Last edited by tubetime86 at Oct 3, 2012,
#19
Quote by tubetime86
A gallon of gas isn't $4.50 here... And I'm sure cars don't use a gallon of gas per hour when idling.



(Thanks blktiger, love the gif. )


try it and see?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_fuel_does_a_car_burn_at_idle_in_1_hour

seems like 1 gallon per hour of idling is pretty standard/average. also will destroy your engine.

also my gas is 4.50 a gallon.
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Last edited by AcousticMirror at Oct 3, 2012,
#20
so funny, i was just about to say that the eye roll was annoying to see in the morning, but nope. that gif wins

i have to sit in an idling car, for hours, for work.

doesnt use that much gas, but the floorboard heat up
like crazy after a while, so always be mindful of where
it's parked when left running.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#21
Quote by AcousticMirror
try it and see?

Here's a bunch of guys with small weiners big trucks that seem to suggest a little less... But one guy does say that the industry standard is a gallon per hour. I'm shocked its that much.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1036089-how-much-fuel-do-i-use-idling.html

^Jenny! You're the perfect person to ask this! Probably a good size V6 too?
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#22
Quote by jj1565
so funny, i was just about to say that the eye roll was annoying to see in the morning, but nope. that gif wins

i have to sit in an idling car, for hours, for work.

doesnt use that much gas, but the floorboard heat up
like crazy after a while, so always be mindful of where
it's parked when left running.


not garage. is bad.

Quote by tubetime86
Here's a bunch of guys with small weiners big trucks that seem to suggest a little less... But one guy does say that the industry standard is a gallon per hour. I'm shocked its that much.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1036089-how-much-fuel-do-i-use-idling.html

^Jenny! You're the perfect person to ask this! Probably a good size V6 too?



see edit!

also i'd think it would increase pretty significantly the longer you idle since all your stuffs is getting hot. that makes sense?
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Last edited by AcousticMirror at Oct 3, 2012,
#23
Quote by tubetime86
Here's a bunch of guys with small weiners big trucks that seem to suggest a little less... But one guy does say that the industry standard is a gallon per hour. I'm shocked its that much.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1036089-how-much-fuel-do-i-use-idling.html

^Jenny! You're the perfect person to ask this! Probably a good size V6 too?



camaro / mustang package on large rear wheel v8s.

obvs you don't go through as much gas idling as driving for 8 hours.
less than 8 gallons per shift for sure.

^ohh and yes garage = bad
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#24
A decent sized sealed lead acid battery you could get for about $50 will be 12V and 35Ah.

12V*35Ah = 1.512megajoules

1.5megajoules / 100 watts = 4.16 hours

so....even if you account the losses in the inverter, it's not to shabby. And 100w is the peak load, if its constantly amplifying a full blast square wave, the average use is probably under half that (still is quiet a lot because tube amps have heaters and such). The only way to get the exact energy use is to actualy measure it, try with one of thoe $10 energy meters the plug into the socket and measure how much energy it actually uses if you play for an hour.

Yes, you could use an inverter, but the more efficient solution would be to throw away the entire power section of the amp and make a DC->DC converter but you'd have to have the know how to design it.
Last edited by seljer at Oct 3, 2012,
#25
selj, youve always been such a smarty pants
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#26
Quote by tubetime86
Ever since I saw this video I've been wanting to go camping and take my drum kit, a generator and some instruments. It would be awesome as hell to be in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night, and rocking with a full band.


That's how Kyuss started. Generator Parties. I really want to do one sometime.

OT: TS, you'll probably get about an hour no worries out of a battery, before you'd want to think about recharging it, which you can do by just running your car for a while. The other alternative is to buy a second car battery specifically for running your amp, and then when you've run that down, put that in your car for the drive home. Then the battery you drove up on will be charged for the next time, and carry on cycling like that. You can even hook both batteries up to the alternator so they'll both charge whilst driving, and you won't have to worry about drying up all the juice in your car battery to drive home on.

EDIT: Ninja'd with the maffs I couldn't be bothered doing. There's your answer.
Last edited by Dan_5893 at Oct 3, 2012,
#27
Quote by jj1565
selj, youve always been such a smarty pants


University has gotta be useful for something


seriously, screw D cells and all that, those gel batteries a pretty cool for the price : capacity ratio
#28
i think the real problem is that even if all this gets set up you are gonna go all the way out to the middle no of nowhere crank your shit up and it's gonna be cool for like exactly 7 minutes.

and then you are gonna drive all the way home.
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#29
^^^might be a lot less than an hour out of battery if running gear with the car off. ive seen cars click off after minutes of running extra lights.

probably not a good idea to test it without the backup battery mentioned.

and yep^

keep at it seljer!
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#30
Quote by AcousticMirror
seems like 1 gallon per hour of idling is pretty standard/average. also will destroy your engine.

also my gas is 4.50 a gallon.

Ya that seems to be the 'rule of thumb' number.

That Ford forum addresses the engine issues also. Apparently you just want to drive it hard after idling to pull oil back into all the right places. For an hour jam session I doubt that'd be an issue, but you can always just drive like a maniac on the way home.

Quote by jj1565
camaro / mustang package on large rear wheel v8s.

obvs you don't go through as much gas idling as driving for 8 hours.
less than 8 gallons per shift for sure.

^ohh and yes garage = bad

Damn, that thing is probably using some juice too... So if you aren't using eight gallons in eight hours then there's no way my little V6 is using a gallon an hour at idle... In theory anyway.

Quote by AcousticMirror
i think the real problem is that even if all this gets set up you are gonna go all the way out to the middle no of nowhere crank your shit up and it's gonna be cool for like exactly 7 minutes.

and then you are gonna drive all the way home.

I dunno man... I can sit in nature for hours not doing anything... Sitting with my amp at full blast would probably be awesome. Not much chance of seeing wildlife though.

Quote by jj1565
probably not a good idea to test it without the backup battery mentioned.



That jam session just turned into a campout!
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#31
Oh I was definitely not thinking of using the car's battery! If I were to do this it'd be with one bought specifically for it.

Leaving the car on would be a bit expensive. This is a gas-guzzling 4WD we're talking about. And if I'm going to be turning fuel to power, I may as well use a generator! It'll end up cheaper in the long run if I do this often, and hopefully it'll be enjoyable enough that I want to.

I know the one I'll get for the price I'll end up paying will probably be pretty noisy, but oh well, I'll just try and put as much distance between the amp and the generator as practicable.

Another upside is that if my bassist friend ever gets off his arse and gets a bass and amp instead of only playing when he's at my house, then he can join me and there should be enough power for us both.

Also, thanks for the clarification about 100W being the peak load, that's exactly what I want to know.
Last edited by fungrified at Oct 3, 2012,
#32
^ok well yamaha makes a super light weight, super quiet generator, might be worth a look.
just tossing out there.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#33
Quote by jj1565
^ok well yamaha makes a super light weight, super quiet generator, might be worth a look.
just tossing out there.


The cheapest yamaha one I can see is $500 and the rest seem nearer $1k, way out of my price range!
#34
ahh, ok. maybe you can save up and upgrade eventually.

good luck
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#35
Check ebay. Search for "inverter generator." There are any number of cheap gennies that will do the deed.
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#36
Yeah I've found a couple for not much more than $100 that should do the job, might get slightly better depending on my how much disposable income I'm getting.

Thanks for the help everyone!
#37
You aren't going to be using it all the time so you should be able to get away with something relatively cheap.
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


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My band
#38
My son uses a 300w inverter plugged into his truck cigarette lighter jack to play when he goes to the lake and it's never been a problem.

Guitar amps don't use very much power. A 50w combo uses around 200w of electricity at MAX volume.

A medium duty (650 CCA) automotive battery will have about a 95 minute reserve capacity, which means it will maintain a useful voltage under a 25 amp draw for 95 minutes.

A 300w inverter under the amplifier load above draws about...25 amps...

Play for an hour, run your vehicle for 20 minutes, repeat as necessary.
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Last edited by Arby911 at Oct 3, 2012,
#39
Quote by Arby911
Play for an hour, run your vehicle for 20 minutes, repeat as necessary.


And bring some jumper cables with you, just in case
#40
Quote by seljer
And bring some jumper cables with you, just in case


I always do...cheap insurance!
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