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#1
Budget? - Whatever my Mesa Dual Rectifier sells for. It is up for sale now for 1300 euros, but I might stretch to 1500 euros if it's worth it.

Genres? - I play a bit of everything, which is why I wanted a triple channel amplifier. Turns out, the drive channel isn't what I wanted. I like the cleans and the high-gain, but the mid-gain isn't that good, in my opinion (thought I'd share what I don't like about the Mesa). I like something with a little more balls.

As far as cleans go, I play jazz, blues and pop-rock when I'm alone. In my band, I occasionally need to play some cleans.

For drive, I need a good mid-gain drive. Artists I'll refer to that I like as far as tones go are Band of Skulls, Queens of the Stone Age, Foo Fighters, Led Zeppelin, The Black Keys, Priestess, Triggerfinger, etc.

If it could do metal (with a boost), that would be a nice added feature, but it's not that needed as of now.

I need to have at least 2 foot switchable channels.
Preferably with an FX loop.

New or Used? - I prefer used, as I can sell it on without (a lot of) loss later on, if needed. New is not a problem, of course. xD

Home or Gig? - Gig without PA.

Closest City? - I'm in Belgium. I can drive around.

Current Gear? - see sig. :-)

TLDR:
New amp, 1300 euros approx., decent clean, good mid-gain drive, 2 channels at least (switchable) for gigging.

Thanks in advance. If I forgot something, just ask. :-)
#2
Laney VH100
Framus cobra
Framus Dragon
Splawn QuickRod
Peavey JSX
Marshall DSL
Marshall JVM
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#3
Oh, I should add:

Tried everything Peavey I know of (JSX, XXX, 6505(+), Ultra(+), Classic 30/50) and didn't like any of those that much for mid-gain. As far as Marshall goes, I can't say I'm wowed by their "new" amplifiers. I like their older stuff, such as a Plexi and a JCM 800 (which was based on the plexi, right?), a lot more.

I played a QuickRod KT88 and really liked it, but it's a little bit too expensive new for me. Used, they don't pop up often, although there is something Splawn up now, I believe.

Thank you for your response, by the way. :-)
#5
I e-mailed my local guitar shop about the Budda Superdrive 18 head as well. There was no price listed, but I actually love the combo they have. Thoughts on that one?

I don't have personal experience with the VH, is there something comparable that I might have tried? :P
#6
i think a vh is basically a gh with a clean channel. and (again, i think) a gh is basically a hot-rodded 800. worth considering, probably. though if you can spring for a splawn (haven't tried them, heard good things), that might be better. the laneys are killer if you get them cheap enough- but the prices have been shooting up recently, so they're not as attractive as they were. Not that long ago, you could pick up a new vh100r for £600 in the UK. Now they're £1000. Awesome at £600, not so much at £1000.

I liked the budda i tried. But that was before they were bought out by peavey. No idea if the quality is the same now or not. Also it was quite a unique tone, a bit on the dark side.

jvm might be worth considering, too. i preferred its lower gain od to its high gain.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#7
Yes, I saw the Laney is 1200 euros new. I can't buy it locally, I'd have to get it shipped. I'm not that fond of paying that much for something I can't try. =/
Now that we're talking Laney, there's a Laney Klipp 100 watt for sale, for 700 euros (bidding starts at 600). Haven't heard of them before, but I've seen them in pictures. Thoughts?

Other amps that interest me:
VHT Pitbull Classic (no experience whatsoever)
ENGL Powerball (no experience with this, but I quite liked the other ENGL stuff I tried)
Orange Rockerverb 100
Splawn QuickRod (there's one up for sale now)
#8
Peavey bought out Budda but let them continue to do things they were doing. The Series II is actually a few miles above the original ones as far as quality, and actually fixed a couple of the issues the older ones were having.

The 18W Budda is a great amp but if you play a lot of cleans, you might want to think about getting something with a bit more headroom like the 30 or 45.

EDIT: Another thing about the Budda amps that people miss, is that yes, they have footswitchable rhythm/overdrive channels but they share the same EQ.
Quote by Dunning~Kruger
Yes I was rude, and I was aggressive and I was offending a large group of people. But I was civlized about it.

Taylor 414CE
Last edited by cdr_salamander at Oct 6, 2012,
#9
I don't play a lot of cleans at band volume, and even so, the cleans can have some grit. :-) The 30 or the 45 aren't available here and are out of my budget as well, I think.
Don't care that much about shared EQ, my cleans and drive have about the same EQ settings. :-)
Thank you for your input, it's very welcome.
#11
Go for the Splawn QR. I am saving my pennies right now to get one.

I have played the VHT pitbull before and they are a nice amp. I have liked the tone of the few Engls I have tried, but they seem to be missing something in a band situation.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#12
Yep, Orange are worthy amplifiers, both you mentioned are very good, can you try them?

Mesa Royal Atlantic
Emperor 4x12 Silver Bells
PRS Swamp Ash Limited Custom 24
EQD Acapulco Gold
MXR Carbon Copy
EHX Epitome
EHX Superego
Fuzz Hugger Algal Bloom
Way Huge Fat Sandwich
#13
I have played both to a certain degree.
I was wondering if the AD30 can stay clean over a drummer? The TH30 I played certainly could, but I only played around with drive sounds on the AD30.

Let's say you've got the choice:
Rockerverb 100 + Orange 412 cab w/ greenbacks
or
Splawn QuickRod with no cab.

They're about the same price second hand. I have a 212 V30 cab, but I wouldn't mind an extra 412.
#14
Quote by I K0nijn I
Yes, I saw the Laney is 1200 euros new. I can't buy it locally, I'd have to get it shipped. I'm not that fond of paying that much for something I can't try. =/
Now that we're talking Laney, there's a Laney Klipp 100 watt for sale, for 700 euros (bidding starts at 600). Haven't heard of them before, but I've seen them in pictures. Thoughts?

Other amps that interest me:
VHT Pitbull Classic (no experience whatsoever)
ENGL Powerball (no experience with this, but I quite liked the other ENGL stuff I tried)
Orange Rockerverb 100
Splawn QuickRod (there's one up for sale now)


never tried a klipp. i think it's an older model, though.

i've loved the vhts (they're called fryette now, axl owns the vht name now) i've tried, but they have quite a unique, dry type of tone, and they have so many models i just get confused- i'm not sure if i've tried that one.

powerball is very modern-sounding and has tons of gain. I haven't tried the newer version, though.

rockerverb is nice, but again, like the vht, has quite a unique tone. quite dark-sounding.

never tried a splawn.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#15
quickrod all the way. well, actually that is a very tough choice.

Now that I think about it, definitely the quickrod. The Thunderverb has a LOT of headroom. for med-gainy stuff you want some power tube break up and unless you crank that beast you wont get any. the quickrod has a half power switch, and you can yank two power tubes to bring it down to 25 watts (311 does that right?)
Last edited by ihartfood at Oct 7, 2012,
#16
It's not a Thunderverb, it's a Rockerverb. :-)
It's hard to decide atm. =/ Had band practice today and my Mesa sounded really good this time. =P Argh, I hate choices.
#17
haha join the club. i'm like the most indecisive person ever. At least, I think I am. Maybe I'm not.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#19
Ok, that's very helpful, haha.

Also, just a question: the cab that comes with the Rockerverb comes with Greenbacks instead of V30's (which is their standard now, right?). Were the V30's swapped out, or did Orange make greenback-cabs in the past?
Also, how would 4 greenbacks and 2 V30's sound together and how would I go towards connecting 2 cabs to 1 head?
#20
not sure whether orange made greenback cabs or not.

what's the impedance of the cabs?
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#21
Quote by RockGuitarist09
The laney VH would be brilliant for what you've listed. I would also consider the Marshall JVM410H.


Freaking this. Really anything Laney. The GH, VH, or Ironheart would suit you very well.
#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
not sure whether orange made greenback cabs or not.

what's the impedance of the cabs?


Well, my 212 is 8 ohms and I suppose every 412 Greenback cab is the same, which would make that one 8 ohms as well.

So it would be a Rockerverb 100, with a 212 V30 8 ohm cab and a 412 greenback (G12M, right?) 8 ohm cab.

@FenrirFangs: Is the Laney VH worth 1200 euros? I mean, for 300 more, I'd have a Rockerverb AND a cab.
#23
you can't assume that with the greenback cab, the GB cab could just as easily be 16 ohms.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#24
Save up for the Splawn if you want a Splawn. Otherwise you're just going to end up in the same situation you are now sooner or later.

I also say give a Mesa Roadster a chance, as well as a Marshall JVM.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#25
Ok, didn't know about that one. =P I'll ask the seller.
If the cabs have different ohms, can I still use both at once in one way or another?
#26
it's much harder

generally speaking, ideally you want them to be the same. if you have two 16 ohm cabs, you either link them or plug them into the two speaker outputs on the amp at 8 ohms- sorted. (or two 8 ohm cabs would be plugged into the 4 ohm outputs)

if they're different, it gets more complicated. I'm not that well up on this, so bear with me, but if your 2x12 is 8 ohms and the 4x12 were 16 ohms, if you linked those two, you'd have overall impedance of

1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2 (think back to physics class for parallel resistances, impedance is basically resistance to alternating current)

1/R = 1/16 + 1/8

1/R = 3/16

R = 16/3 = 5.33333333 ohms. Which obviously doesn't tally up with any impedance tap on your output transformer, lol.

Now (DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS, IF YOU DO DO IT, DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK) you might be absolutely fine plugging into the 4 ohm (or even 8 ohm) output on your amp- it might be "close enough", and some mismatches are safer than others (I forget which ), but if you don't know what you're doing, it's safer to match.

the other problem with mismatching is that different power goes to different impedances. I *think* (again, don't quote me) double the power will go to the 8 ohm impedance cabinet compared to the 16 ohm (as there's more resistance there), so ~67 watts will be going to your 2x12 (with v30s) while ~33 watts will be going to the 4x12 (with greenbacks). That should be safe in terms of the overall wattage handling, but v30s are already a bit louder than greenbacks, and more power going to them will make them louder again- they could overpower the greenbacks. (Conversely, if you have different speakers which are louder, doing a mismatch like that can be used to level out the volumes- if you were sending 33 watts to the v30s and 67 watts to the greenbacks, that might actually sound perfectly balanced.)

Not to mention, 2 of the same speaker combined with 4 of the same speaker might not sound ideal anyway. Even if you have the same impedance on the cabs, you have two v30s and 4 greenbacks (but that might be more helpful from the volume point of view of evening them out).

Regarding v30s combined with greenbacks- I thought it sounded pretty good (that's a 2x12 with one of each at the same impedance- the way you're "meant" to run them, in other words ), but was pretty warm and could get honky with a too middy amp.

of any of the guys who know more about electronics than i do come in here and disagree with what i've written- listen to them. I only have a shaky-at-best knowledge of electronics.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 7, 2012,
#27
I know pretty much nothing about electronics myself. I guess it's not as easy as just plugging in the 8 ohm cab in an 8 ohm speaker out and the 16 ohm cab in the 16 ohm out? =P

Other than that, I get the main idea of what you say, but my little knowledge of electronics combined with my good-enough-for-daily-stuff English makes it kind of impossible to get the gist of it. =P

Thanks for the elaborate answer, though. I appreciate it.
#28
Yeah, the big problem with mismatching impedances on the speakers is that the speakers don't get the same amount of current.

As far as the quickrod goes, awesome amp. Great overdrive, its less modern sounding than the nitro from what I understand, but it is still plenty tight enough and plenty of gain for anything. Not that great of a clean channel, but its passable.

Edit: ^No, you can't use different taps like that. I forgot how all the math and everything works out, but if you do that the amp ends up seeing no where near the impedance its expecting.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
Last edited by Kevin Saale at Oct 7, 2012,
#29
Quote by I K0nijn I
(a) I know pretty much nothing about electronics myself. I guess it's not as easy as just plugging in the 8 ohm cab in an 8 ohm speaker out and the 16 ohm cab in the 16 ohm out? =P

(b) Other than that, I get the main idea of what you say, but my little knowledge of electronics combined with my good-enough-for-daily-stuff English makes it kind of impossible to get the gist of it. =P

(c) Thanks for the elaborate answer, though. I appreciate it.


(a) no that's definitely not what you want to do. you want to be plugged into the same impedance sockets at all times. Like kevin, i can't exactly remember what happens when you plug into different impedance sockets, but I think you want to avoid doing it

(b) your english is awesome if my dutch (or even the french or german which i've sorta half learned) were half as good as your english i'd consider myself a total badass

(c) no problem
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#30
I'd get the Rockerverb but it's because I love Orange. The Splawn is an amazing amp too. Try them and choose.

Mesa Royal Atlantic
Emperor 4x12 Silver Bells
PRS Swamp Ash Limited Custom 24
EQD Acapulco Gold
MXR Carbon Copy
EHX Epitome
EHX Superego
Fuzz Hugger Algal Bloom
Way Huge Fat Sandwich
#31
Ok, I'll make sure I don't do that, then. :P
Either way, if 8 and 8 combined are 4, there's a problem anyway, I think, as the RockerVerb doesn't have a 4 ohm speaker out. Right?

Which leads me to the following question: is there any way to change ohms of a cab? For instance, if the 412 is 16 ohms, can I in any way convert my 212 to 16 ohms as well, so I can use both? If it matters: it runs at 16 ohms in stereo, 8 ohms mono.

Thank you Kevin for the input on the Quick Rod. I have no experience with its cleans, with what could they be compared?
#32
It been a while since I played the quickrod, I just remember not liking the cleans. Sorry
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#33
No problem. :-) Thank you anyway.

I'm pretty sure about the RK100 (why the hell is it RK and not RV, by the way? xD) though. I really liked it when I played it and have always liked Orange amplifiers.
#34
You can change the wiring of the speakers, it will yield in a different "ohmage".

For example:

1x8ohm + 1x8ohm in parallel = 4ohms.
1x8ohm + 1x8ohm in series = 16ohms.

Mesa Royal Atlantic
Emperor 4x12 Silver Bells
PRS Swamp Ash Limited Custom 24
EQD Acapulco Gold
MXR Carbon Copy
EHX Epitome
EHX Superego
Fuzz Hugger Algal Bloom
Way Huge Fat Sandwich
#35
And would that be a lot of work? I know someone who might be able to do it, but I don't want to ask too much.
#36
Rewiring cabs is super easy. You could probably do it yourself. Open the cabs up and tell us how many ohms the speakers in them are.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#37
As far as being handy goes, I can use a screwdriver and a hammer and that's it. xD
I'll open up cabs and ask questions when I need to. :-) I have to sell my Mesa first, of course, LOL.
#38
Quote by I K0nijn I
(a) Ok, I'll make sure I don't do that, then. :P
Either way, if 8 and 8 combined are 4, there's a problem anyway, I think, as the RockerVerb doesn't have a 4 ohm speaker out. Right?

(b) Which leads me to the following question: is there any way to change ohms of a cab? For instance, if the 412 is 16 ohms, can I in any way convert my 212 to 16 ohms as well, so I can use both? If it matters: it runs at 16 ohms in stereo, 8 ohms mono.


(a) yeah that's a good point. I just assumed it'd have a 4 ohm output as well, as most heads do. That sucks. You don't often need the 4 ohm tap- except for occasions like here where you're trying to link to two 8 ohm cabs.

(b) it's very dependent on what impedance the speakers are. Theoretically, a 4x12 can either be wired in series, in parallel, or in series/parallel (or parallel/series). The problem is, to get an overall impedance which is of any use (i.e. either 4, 8 or 16 ohms) is, as i said, dependent on the impedance of the speakers.

with 16 ohm speakers, all wired in series gives you 64 ohms- no good.
all in parallel gives you 4 ohms- ok.
series/parallel gives you 16 ohms- also ok.

with 8 ohm speakers, all wired in series gives you 32 ohms- no good.
all in parallel gives you 2 ohms- no good.
series/parallel gives you 8 ohms- also ok.

with 4 ohm speakers, all wired in series gives you 16 ohms- ok.
all in parallel gives you 1 ohm- no good.
series/parallel gives you 4 ohms- also ok.

(I think those numbers are right, but don't quote me )

That's before you consider that series/parallel (or parallel) wiring is the safest (or at least safer than series), because it means that if a speaker blows there's still some load attached to the output transformer so it shouldn't blow. So while series wiring might afford you the impedance you want, it's not really quite as safe if a speaker should blow. That being said some of my 2x12s have series wiring, and if that's the impedance you need, i'm not sure how much it's worth worrying about.

I don't think it's possible to convert your 2x12 to 16 ohms as 16 ohm stereo/8 ohm mono would suggest the speakers are 16 ohms overall.

You can get impedance matcher gadgets, though- i haven't tried them, so i have no idea what they're like. But tubetown in germany does one, as does weber. They're not that cheap, though.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#39
Well, as far as having a load connected, I don't think I'd need to worry about blowing 6 speakers at once (which is my plan IF I can match up the impedances), right?

I get what you're saying, though, it just isn't as logical to me as I'd wish.

If the impedances don't match up, I might as well just use one cab and buy a cab that I can match it with later on. :P
#40
Well the point dave was making was that if you had one cab and it was wired in series then 1 speaker blowing would make it where there was no load on the amp.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
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