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#42
Roses are red
Violets are blue
This thread is stupid
And I like beer.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#43
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Tell you what, some of us warned you the poem was shit.


We'll see : )
baab
#45
Quote by cubs
first of all, the original french poem is in verse. that alone sets it drastically apart from bukowski. baudelaire uses strict consonant rhymes. i'm too lazy to count the syllables of each line, but i'm sure it is constant. it also uses metaphors. it worries about rhythm. i spent some time living in France and i was never in a situation where i'd imagine someone coming up to me and speaking like that. when you read bukowski, you usually notice a conversational tone throughout the poem. i think reading les fleurs du mal would be enough to say the poem in the OP is not baudelaire. — t'imagine?


I was not really referring to meters and rhythmn, more the content. Sure most of Les Fluers du Mal is not like OP's poem but when I read it, I immediately thought Bukowski and that particular Baudelaire poem.
#46
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#47
Quote by My Last Words
We'll see : )

Yes, we will. And unless you're absolutely amazing at bullshitting (like the champion of all bullshit), then...we'll really see.
#48
Quote by neidnarb11890
a girl in one of my classes gave a pretty good talk on a Tristan Tzara poem. I was impressed. TS needs to try harder.

I never really understood how "trying harder" worked.
Last edited by █▐▌█▐▌ at Oct 8, 2012,
#49
My master's was in literary criticism with an emphasis on later poetry; I'm in the absolute perfect situation to help you...

Granted I wasted my time studying English so now I get trashed every night and I'm far too drunk to make suggestions as to how you might analyze the poem.

I guess you should just remember: no one cares "what" a poem means, an analysis needs to focus entire on "how" a poem means.
#50
To my mind, the poem does have meaning, but it requires that the reader understands the context in which it is written - i.e. has some understanding of what is generally expected in poetry. It's reflecting on people's expectations of the arts and the extent to which artists are valued.
Quote by Dirtydeeds468
Holy Crap.

I love you more than life itself.
#51
Quote by neidnarb11890
that's why you can't pass freshman English, bb.

Yep.
instead of just saying "it's absurdist, there is no meaning", TS could focus on irony or smthng.

Yeah I mean there's obv tons of meaning here. But if y'r not sufficiently acquainted with the meaning of "meaning" in academic-or-whatever discourse, you won't necessarily be able to consciously identify all the things that contribute to the meaning, even if you process them at a non-analytical level. And then there's the problem of communicating them.

Like, I could make observations about this 'poem' in terms of irony, tone, character, context within the larger work, etc. But I wouldn't be able to say as much as I ought to be able to. And I'm sure there's sense to be made of its presentation—the line length, for example. But I'm not equipped for that.

Learning is a weird process. Feel like for the most part the public education system just teaches reductionist thinking, and stuff beyond that requires time for varied experience and reflection. Some people don't get that kind of time/experience/reflection. "Thinking abt" yr homework isn't the same as reflection.

When ur dumb ur dumb.
Last edited by █▐▌█▐▌ at Oct 9, 2012,
#52
Find a deeper meaning? It amazes me how people think that everything has a deep meaning.

I write songs about drinking beer and having sex because I like them; there is no deeper meaning.

I will laugh my tits off if the author of the poem is interviewed, and he says he wrote the poem because he likes porn and beer.
Quote by element4433
One time I watched a dog lick his own dick for twenty minutes.

Quote by Seref
My genitals dangle limply in disgust and annoyance.
#53
OP, go pick any random poem by Gerard Reve. That guy was a genius.
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#54
I don't particularly like it, but the number of people stating that the poem in the OP is objectively 'bad' is ridiculous.
#55
Quote by METAL_MAN135
Find a deeper meaning? It amazes me how people think that everything has a deep meaning.

I write songs about drinking beer and having sex because I like them; there is no deeper meaning.

I will laugh my tits off if the author of the poem is interviewed, and he says he wrote the poem because he likes porn and beer.


I agree. I don't think this particular poem has any meaning.
baab
#56
EDIT: ^then again, you said it's absurdism, so that would make perfect sense. METAL_MAN actually described absurdist philosophy quite well. Camus would be proud.

Look at the language itself. What kinds of words is he using? (I'll give you a hint, booze and porn are pretty casual, informal terms). Is he speaking actively, passively, agressively, etc.? How do the words sound? How do all of those things contribute to the tone?

Look at the structure. Why is the first stanza half as long as the second? How do they differ? Why are the long sentences broken up into small fragments?

I'm a little confused though, you said this is a translation? You should look at the original text if you're going to analyze something like that. It's less about what is said and more about how it's said.
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
Last edited by snipelfritz at Oct 9, 2012,
#57
Quote by snipelfritz


I'm a little confused though, you said this is a translation? You should look at the original text if you're going to analyze something like that. It's less about what is said and more about how it's said.


Here's the original, I tried.

"Mijn wijf werkt
zich kapot
zodat ik me
volledig kan
wijden aan de kunst

zogenaamd,
want wat ik
vooral
dus doe is zuipen
en porno kijken.
Daarnaast kanker
ik veel op
iedereen die
wel iets doet."

Ofcourse it's a bit different in english
baab
Last edited by My Last Words at Oct 9, 2012,
#58
Quote by METAL_MAN135
Find a deeper meaning? It amazes me how people think that everything has a deep meaning.

I write songs about drinking beer and having sex because I like them; there is no deeper meaning.

I will laugh my tits off if the author of the poem is interviewed, and he says he wrote the poem because he likes porn and beer.


The author's intentions have no effect on the reader's interpretation.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#59
So why does the English translation have 15 lines when the original has 14? Obviously the original is a mock sonnet. That explains a lot about the way it's organized.

Absurdism-as-defined-by-Wikipedia is truly the perfect excuse for teenagers who wanna be intellectual but still want easy answers.
Last edited by █▐▌█▐▌ at Oct 9, 2012,
#60
Quote by █▐▌█▐▌
So why does the English translation have 15 lines when the original has 14? Obviously the original is a mock sonnet. That explains a lot about the way it's organized.

Absurdism-as-defined-by-Wikipedia is truly the perfect excuse for teenagers who wanna be intellectual but still want easy answers.

Bingo! Now we're onto something (referring to the sonnet thing). Take that and run with it.

And for sure, just saying, "it's absurd and has no meaning" is pretty weak. You can go a lot further than that even with what seems like a simple text.

Context, connotation, some other c word look for that kind of stuff.
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#61
Quote by Todd Hart
The author's intentions have no effect on the reader's interpretation.


So it's possible to get something, out of nothing, if you know what I mean ?
baab
#62
Quote by My Last Words
So it's possible to get something, out of nothing, if you know what I mean ?


It's possible to find meaning where none was intended, yes.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#63
Quote by Todd Hart
The author's intentions have no effect on the reader's interpretation.

Only if the author is incredibly incompetent.
#64
Quote by My Last Words
So it's possible to get something, out of nothing, if you know what I mean ?

It's positively human nature to do so.

See: Intelligent Design
#65
Quote by Todd Hart
It's possible to find meaning where none was intended, yes.


That's pretty cool if you think about it.
baab
#66
Quote by █▐▌█▐▌
Only if the author is incredibly incompetent.


No. It's a very fundamental fact of authorship that your intentions are not relevant to the reader. The fact of the 'death of the author' has been an integral part of literary criticism for nearly 50 years - and we know that writing is as, if not more, based on subconscious mechanism than conscious motives.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#67
Quote by Todd Hart
No. It's a very fundamental fact of authorship that your intentions are not relevant to the reader. The fact of the 'death of the author' has been an integral part of literary criticism for nearly 50 years - and we know that writing is as, if not more, based on subconscious mechanism than conscious motives.

You didn't say "conscious motives."
#68
Quote by █▐▌█▐▌
You didn't say "conscious motives."


Intention is a conscious act.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#70
Quote by fender_696
I don't particularly like it, but the number of people stating that the poem in the OP is objectively 'bad' is ridiculous.

It's not bad (then again, it's not at all good either). My biggest problem with this is how TS is too lazy to "find meaning" in the poem (absurdism =/= no meaning at all), and worse he wants us to tell him how to analyse it.


I actually get butthurt when people are lazy about school, dunno why.
#71
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
It's not bad (then again, it's not at all good either). My biggest problem with this is how TS is too lazy to "find meaning" in the poem (absurdism =/= no meaning at all), and worse he wants us to tell him how to analyse it.


I actually get butthurt when people are lazy about school, dunno why.


I'm sorry, but I just don't know how to analyse a poem like this, nor do I know how to interpretate absurdism..
baab
#72
Quote by My Last Words
I'm sorry, but I just don't know how to analyse a poem like this, nor do I know how to interpretate absurdism..

Then, go study more, you lazy bum. We shouldn't be doing your schoolwork for you. The Pit is not your personal tutor.

Edit:
The sentiments I just expressed are why a lot of people (me included) are either giving you snide posts or refusing to take you seriously.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 9, 2012,
#73
Quote by My Last Words
I'm sorry, but I just don't know how to analyse a poem like this, nor do I know how to interpretate absurdism..

Well, since you're doing this for an exam, I assume both those things have been covered in class.

Which, again, lazy.
#74
Get a copy of it and annotate that bitch with anything in the use of language that comes to mind (metaphors, rhyming, alliteration, all that jazz), then read it again and build up an understanding of the poem. Then, when you feel ready, go through in your essay the various ways in which the poet uses language to further his goal of world domination (alternatively, the deeper meaning he's trying to get across). Put a summary of the scenario of the poem before or after. Conclude by summing up the message behind the poem and offer some personal opinion on it.

Leave to cool for 5 mins and serve. Feeds six.
LOOK

Call me Neutral.
Quote by da_
I wonder if you get more out put if you wire a battery to your penis.
#75
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Well, since you're doing this for an exam, I assume both those things have been covered in class.

Which, again, lazy.


I told you I don't know how to do it because I simply don't know - we never covered these kind of poems in class. At one of our last lessons he showed us the earlier mentioned 100-words-for-vagina-poem, saying that poetry isn't always supposed to be serious (we mostly covered more "serious" poems the previous lessons). I then asked him the following: How am I supposed to interpretate a poem like this if I don't know how to interpretate it ?
baab
#76
Quote by My Last Words
I told you I don't know how to do it because I simply don't know - we never covered these kind of poems in class. At one of our last lessons he showed us the earlier mentioned 100-words-for-vagina-poem, saying that poetry isn't always supposed to be serious (we mostly covered more "serious" poems the previous lessons). I then asked him the following: How am I supposed to interpretate a poem like this if I don't know how to interpretate it ?

Are you sure you didn't learn basic methods of interpreting poetry? Use those methods to interpret this poem.
#77
Quote by My Last Words
I told you I don't know how to do it because I simply don't know - we never covered these kind of poems in class. At one of our last lessons he showed us the earlier mentioned 100-words-for-vagina-poem, saying that poetry isn't always supposed to be serious (we mostly covered more "serious" poems the previous lessons). I then asked him the following: How am I supposed to interpretate a poem like this if I don't know how to interpretate it ?


* interpret
#78
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Are you sure you didn't learn basic methods of interpreting poetry? Use those methods to interpret this poem.


If I did, I wouldn't be asking it here.. And I'm not asking you to interpret/analyse the poem for me, I'm asking HOW to analyse/interpret it - or any absurd poem for that matter.
baab
#79
Quote by My Last Words
If I did, I wouldn't be asking it here.. And I'm not asking you to interpret/analyse the poem for me, I'm asking HOW to analyse/interpret it - or any absurd poem for that matter.

First link on Google Search for 'how to analyse poems': http://library.thinkquest.org/23846/writing_guide/poetry.html

Even in the Songwriting and Lyrics forum on this very site, there is advice on critiquing poetry: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/announcement.php?f=7&announcementid=128

A PDF from a college in Quebec (fourth link from a Google search): www.vaniercollege.qc.ca/tlc/tipsheets/.../how-to-analyze-a-poem.pdf

Here's a WikiHow: http://www.wikihow.com/Analyze-Poetry


This literally took no longer than 3 minutes to find.

I also very much doubt that you didn't cover poetry analysis in class, you just weren't paying attention, man. C'mon, they wouldn't give you this shit if it wasn't important.
#80
Why is everyone getting so uppity on OP? The internet is an information sharing resource and he's only using it to ask a question. If you have a problem with that then either don't post, or express your opinion and go in another corner of the pit. By giving him advice you're not finishing his work for him.