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#41
I don't usually espouse absolutist views, but when I do, they're in favour of completely free and uninhibited speech.
#42
Oh god if saying sick shit online got you arrested then half the internet should be in jail right now.
#43
Quote by Carnivean
So there's been some discussion on here regarding free speech differences betwixt countries, primarily between the U.S. and the U.K.

I just saw this recent BBC news article and thought it a fantastic example of UK speech laws in action.

...

..still unclear whether he will serve more time than the man who killed her.





Without seeing the comments in context it's hard to make a fair judgement on this case. While it's easy to say 'this is bullshit, free speech!... etc' we don't know how the comments were made and what was contained in them.

He could have been posting them on a page that her family frequent (appealing for info etc) and could have caused them psychological harm. If the title had read "Jailed for online harassment" few people would bat an eyelid.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#44
Quote by WCPhils
What the hell do I care if he gets arrested?

So, if someone takes exception to your words, you wouldn't mind if you possibly got thrown into prison for it? Because, no matter how it's dressed, that's essentially what happened here.

Quote by Dreadnought
No, if anything he deserved an ass kicking. The law should not be involved

Exactly!

Can I get an amen, brothers of the internet?
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 8, 2012,
#45
There's always a line between harassment and offence, and freedom of speech does not span it.
I've done very little research into the context of his "joke", but if it was just him randomly posting it then the police should have just put the phone down on the callers. But if he was actually using it directed at people involved in the case then yes, he should definitely do time.
#46
Quote by Lemoninfluence


Without seeing the comments in context it's hard to make a fair judgement on this case. While it's easy to say 'this is bullshit, free speech!... etc' we don't know how the comments were made and what was contained in them.

He could have been posting them on a page that her family frequent (appealing for info etc) and could have caused them psychological harm. If the title had read "Jailed for online harassment" few people would bat an eyelid.


Are humans not capable of solving disputes? Unless this is ongoing harassment, or threatens the physical health of the recipient, it should be interpreted as a statement-harsh yes-but just a statement. 'Made in public' is part of the reasoning... ...so can't make harsh statements in public in Great Britain, I'll note for travel purpose
Quote by Overlord
It's not hard to be nice, but it's nice to be hard
#47
Should have just shot him. The islands over populated with retards anyway.
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
#48
Quote by Carnivean
Are humans not capable of solving disputes? Unless this is ongoing harassment, or threatens the physical health of the recipient, it should be interpreted as a statement-harsh yes-but just a statement. 'Made in public' is part of the reasoning... ...so can't make harsh statements in public in Great Britain, I'll note for travel purpose

I like how you call this a 'dispute' when you don't know the content of the statement in question. It could have been a threat, it could have been harassing behaviour, it could have been a completely benign statement.

We don't know.

Most people are capable of solving disputes, but if you're going through the worst period in your life dealing with potentially having your daughter murdered, you might not be in the right frame of mind to calmly deal with some prick harassing you and mocking your daughter's death.

Also, it's funny because the court is the archetypal method of dispute resolution.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#49
Quote by magnus_maximus
So you condone vigilantism?

Yes. Because I am the Batman.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#50
Quote by SkepsisMetal
There's always a line between harassment and offence, and freedom of speech does not span it.

Well there is a legal distinction between the two.

Quote by SkepsisMetal

I've done very little research into the context of his "joke", but if it was just him randomly posting it then the police should have just put the phone down on the callers. But if he was actually using it directed at people involved in the case then yes, he should definitely do time.


He posted it on his personal own page. He was copying it from sickipedia.


Now as far as my knowledge on harassment goes, this isn't it. Harassment is when you say or do something with the deliberate intention to cause distress to someone.
No-one directly involved in this would have been aware of anything he wrote.

Just in case I haven't made it entirely clear. I find it absolutely disgusting that he was put in jail.

Morals are subjective, and the law should not ever get involved in such a thing.
#52
Quote by Casketcreep
Now as far as my knowledge on harassment goes, this isn't it. Harassment is when you say or do something with the deliberate intention to cause distress to someone.

you can recklessly harass someone.

the protection from harassment act states that a person should not pursue a course of action which he knows amounts to harassment or ought to know amounts to harassment.

It later goes on to state that 'harassment' includes alarming someone or causing distress to someone.

It also has to be more than one incident.

Not going to comment on the rest of your post, because I don't know whether it's true, but if it plays out like you said, then it is ridiculous.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#53
Quote by magnus_maximus
So you condone vigilantism?

So you condone tyranny?
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#54
Quote by Skynyrd890
So you condone tyranny?

Yes. Because I am the bat man.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#55
Quote by eGraham
Yes. Because I am the bat man.

This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#56
Quote by magnus_maximus
I do not live in a tyrannical state. Were I to, I would not live in a tyrannical state much longer.

You may not live in a tyrannical state, but that is very much a tyrannical act, and you seem to be okay with it.
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#57
Quote by magnus_maximus
Guy's a dick. He knew the law and flouted it for stupid reasons. I can't back a cause I can't approve of. This isn't like other freedom of speech issues.


Is there some article or video I'm not privy to? How do you know he knew?

The guy definitely doesn't deserve time for copying and pasting jokes from sickipedia on his wall, even if he knew it was against the law.
Last edited by TooktheAtrain at Oct 8, 2012,
#59
Am i the only person who wants to know what he said?

It is crazy that he has been arrested for it, but what he said must have been pretty horrible, judging by the reaction.
WHOMP

Think of that next time you are not allowed to laugh.
#60
Quote by donender
Am i the only person who wants to know what he said?

It is crazy that he has been arrested for it, but what he said must have been pretty horrible, judging by the reaction.


It doesn't matter what he said. As long as he's not threatening anybody, he should never have even been a concern of his Facebook friends.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/914463-teenager-matthew-woods-jailed-over-sick-april-jones-jokes-on-facebook
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#61
America!

I do what I want!
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#62
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I like how you call this a 'dispute' when you don't know the content of the statement in question. It could have been a threat, it could have been harassing behaviour, it could have been a completely benign statement.

We don't know.

Most people are capable of solving disputes, but if you're going through the worst period in your life dealing with potentially having your daughter murdered, you might not be in the right frame of mind to calmly deal with some prick harassing you and mocking your daughter's death.

Also, it's funny because the court is the archetypal method of dispute resolution.


They were jokes. See article

And, 12 weeks in prison?
Quote by Overlord
It's not hard to be nice, but it's nice to be hard
#63
Quote by magnus_maximus
Protection from harassment laws, with which dozens of people have been arrested. Most of which have had very, very public discussions over the merits (or otherwise) of our laws governing speech. If he hadn't seen them in the news or didn't know the laws then he was either a total idiot or he lived in a cave.

Protection from harassment laws seem to be abused. It seems they've become "He/she offended me!" laws more than anything else.
#64
You know, unless this guy sent a message directly to the parents of the child, then it's really not harassment. If it is in England, then the English justice system is stupid. Really, really stupid.

This part gets me:

"The reason for the sentence is the seriousness of the offence, the public outrage that has been caused and we felt there was no other sentence this court could have passed which conveys to you the abhorrence that many in society feel this crime should receive."

So now punishments are being passed by what the public deems most fitting? Well isn't that just great.

No. It's not. It's fucking stupid.
#65
Quote by CoreysMonster

So now punishments are being passed by what the public deems most fitting? Well isn't that just great.


Isn't that how most punishments are determined?

You know, people elect representatives who make laws and shit, in the name of said people, that have punishments and what not.
#66
Quote by TunerAddict
Isn't that how most punishments are determined?

You know, people elect representatives who make laws and shit, in the name of said people, that have punishments and what not.

I don't think the public knows enough about law to be able to determine what punishment somebody should get. That's why people go to school to become lawyers and judges. An angry mob shouting for a hanging is something we should have grown out of.
#67
Quote by magnus_maximus
Guy's a dick. He knew the law and flouted it for stupid reasons. I can't back a cause I can't approve of. This isn't like other freedom of speech issues.


Yeah, because ... You know...the law is the law!

Sounds like the law needs flouting, even if this guy is an assclown.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#68
Quote by TunerAddict
Isn't that how most punishments are determined?

You know, people elect representatives who make laws and shit, in the name of said people, that have punishments and what not.

No, laws are not supposed to sway and change at the whims of the people. That's how we get mob rule. Laws are ideally just and fair, subject to change only for the greater good. A court should not be making a ruling based upon the "public outrage" either.
#69
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
No, laws are not supposed to sway and change at the whims of the people. That's how we get mob rule. Laws are ideally just and fair, subject to change only for the greater good. A court should not be making a ruling based upon the "public outrage" either.

well they will as long as we have a democratically elected legislative body.

Quote by Carnivean
They were jokes. See article

And, 12 weeks in prison?

Jokes can't have a significant mental impact on people?

If someone kept telling dead baby jokes to the parents of a supposedly murdered child, I think that would count as harassment.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Oct 8, 2012,
#70
Quote by Casketcreep
Well there is a legal distinction between the two.


He posted it on his personal own page. He was copying it from sickipedia.


Now as far as my knowledge on harassment goes, this isn't it. Harassment is when you say or do something with the deliberate intention to cause distress to someone.
No-one directly involved in this would have been aware of anything he wrote.

Just in case I haven't made it entirely clear. I find it absolutely disgusting that he was put in jail.

Morals are subjective, and the law should not ever get involved in such a thing.





Well then he's a tool. And the police are too whimsical in who they choose to press charges against.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the fact that he had an angry mob outside his door was the sole reason. Arrest him, charge him, get the angry villagers to put down their stakes and torches and set him free claiming he showed enough remorse.
#71
Quote by Casketcreep

Morals are subjective, and the law should not ever get involved in such a thing.

wat
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#72
What a waste of resources. They could be fixing up that crime ridden shithole called London, or expanding industry, but they choose it on a guy who made a joke.
And people are all sensitive and shit over this joke, do people no longer have guts? Harping about how this guy is a jackass because he makes a joke. A bunch of white knight tossers.
Just shows you the further wimpification of society.
#73
This is great. I hope this sets a precedence so that every time someone from the UK offends me I can contact their local authorities and have them imprisoned for a few months.
#74
Quote by Casketcreep
Morals are subjective, and the law should not ever get involved in such a thing.

Why do we have laws at all then?
#75
Quote by due 07
Why do we have laws at all then?

Because that's your opinion, and opinions are subjective.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#76
Quote by ErikLensherr
wat


What don't you understand?
What offends some people doesn't offend others. Morality is a grey area and the law shouldn't get involved in such things, it's too subjective.

Quote by due 07

Why do we have laws at all then?

To punish people after they commit crimes.
Not to enforce good taste and good family values. Not to make examples of people because they're morally bankrupt, not to make examples of people because they are idiots.


And don't get me wrong here guys, that guy is an world class idiot, but he doesn't deserve jailtime. That's his life fucked now.
#77
Quote by BDR_23
What a waste of resources. They could be fixing up that crime ridden shithole called London, or expanding industry, but they choose it on a guy who made a joke.
And people are all sensitive and shit over this joke, do people no longer have guts? Harping about how this guy is a jackass because he makes a joke. A bunch of white knight tossers.
Just shows you the further wimpification of society.

Anybody that throws around the term "white knight" disdainfully is a cunt. That means you're a cunt.


Just dont tell the police that I called you that
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#78
Quote by Lemoninfluence
well they will as long as we have a democratically elected legislative body.

Define "they" for me, please. I think I can guess which "they" you mean, but I'd like to be sure...

Quote by Casketcreep

What offends some people doesn't offend others. Morality is a grey area and the law shouldn't get involved in such things, it's too subjective.

I agree with this.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 8, 2012,
#79
Quote by Casketcreep
To punish people after they commit crimes.
Not to enforce good taste and good family values. Not to make examples of people because they're morally bankrupt, not to make examples of people because they are idiots.
What determines what a crime is?
#80
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Define "they" for me, please. I think I can guess which "they" you mean, but I'd like to be sure...

The courts, he's saying that they will pass judgements based on public opinion so long as them lawmakers are democratically elected.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do