#1
Hey people,

I'm about to get a new amp and am down to these two.. I've been reading many comparisons between fender super champ xd and mustang III amps lately. I play mostly Santana and have the new PRS SE santana model guitar. Which of these amps do you guys think would satisfy my needs more?

Thanks a lot!
Last edited by meqws at Oct 9, 2012,
#3
I have about $200 budget. And since my budget is low, I'm thinkin about buying a used amp. I play mostly at home and currently have a crate v18-112 and I use a boss OS-2 pedal with it. This amp is waay too bassy. And it sounds too muddy without the pedal when the gain is high
Last edited by meqws at Oct 9, 2012,
#4
Are you going to sell your Crate? That would help with the budget and you can get something a little nicer. Also we need the genres you play.

Also where are you located in the world? That changes the used market dramatically.
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#5
Yea I'm gona sell it but I'll have $200 budget after I sell it. And I'm in CA, USA.
Last edited by meqws at Oct 9, 2012,
#6
Where in California? Just want to check out your local craigslist for some stuff.

I mean really with that budget though, getting something that'll do what you want is hard.
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#7
Quote by Eppicurt
Where in California? Just want to check out your local craigslist for some stuff.

I mean really with that budget though, getting something that'll do what you want is hard.


Yeah I know its kinda difficult with this budget. I can wait a little to save some money if there's something around $300 that can give the sound that I want. I live in san diego
#8
Yeah, saving is probably your best option for now. I mean ideally if you want Santana tones you need a Mesa Mk1, but they're way out of your budget.

Here's just a few I've pulled out in your price range:

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/msg/3313119969.html
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/msg/3319207908.html
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/msg/3302844429.html (The Laney)
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/msg/3323572315.html (Probably not...)
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/ssd/msg/3315205450.html (A great deal)
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#9
Santana is Mesa Mark 1. A good hard boost in front of a Fender tube amp gets you surprisingly close to Santana tones. That's not surprising really when you consider the history of the Mesa Mark 1. If you aren't gigging, maybe an Excelsior? An actual tube Fender, not a hybrid or a modeller. Most old Fenders tube amps will do the deed with heaps of boost out front.
Old school tube Fender and a Timmy, that's the ticket.

What you really need is a Mesa Mark though of course. Start saving your pennies now.
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#10
Quote by Cathbard
Santana is Mesa Mark 1. A good hard boost in front of a Fender tube amp gets you surprisingly close to Santana tones. That's not surprising really when you consider the history of the Mesa Mark 1. If you aren't gigging, maybe an Excelsior? An actual tube Fender, not a hybrid or a modeller. Most old Fenders tube amps will do the deed with heaps of boost out front.
Old school tube Fender and a Timmy, that's the ticket.

What you really need is a Mesa Mark though of course. Start saving your pennies now.

Interesting. TS, go try out the Excelsior with a boost and report back.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#11
Carlos was using Fenders prior to the Mark 1. The Mark 1 was basically a Princeton with a big fat tube boost bolted on front and a bigger power amp.
Gilchrist custom
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#12
Thank you guys. Especially, Eppicurt... Thanks a lot for taking the time to search on CL. Appreciate it.. I think I'll wait a little more so I can save some $$$
#13
That Crate VC5310 in the CL ad is a sweet amp, but very heavy if you need to tote it.
#14
The other thing that makes me think is that I have to crank up the volume to be able to get the best from a tube amp. And I live in an apartment... If I crank the volume on the amp and turn it down from my overdrive pedal would I still be able to get a good sound?
#15
You shouldn't need to crank an amp to get a good santana sound (you won't be able to get that infinite feedback though). Santanas sound is very smooth and a similar sound can be achieved with just preamp distortion.
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#16
Quote by Kevin Saale
You shouldn't need to crank an amp to get a good santana sound (you won't be able to get that infinite feedback though). Santanas sound is very smooth and a similar sound can be achieved with just preamp distortion.


Just wanted to add to this.

Trying to find "that" tone, and living in an apartment don't go together, just an FYI

You can try at low volumes, but you'll never truly get there.
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#17
look for a used Fender Blues Jr
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#18
Quote by Guitarbaddie
Just wanted to add to this.

Trying to find "that" tone, and living in an apartment don't go together, just an FYI

You can try at low volumes, but you'll never truly get there.


No, of course not, but no one is gonna nail his tone anyways. So much of his sound is from the amp being loud (but not necessarily power tube break up) and standing in the right spot to be able to get that harmonic feedback on demand for infinite sustain.

I can't remember if it was him or Gary Moore (likely both) but before a show during the initial soundcheck he would find the spot on the stage that gave the best feedback and mark it out with an 'X' of tape or something so he could walk to that spot during a solo to get that sustain you hear.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#21
Quote by meqws
I thought peaveys were mostly for metal or hard rock


No point to shoehorn any brand into one niche. A lot of their amps are high gain, but that doesn't mean that can't handle other stuff. I assume in this instance you're referring to the vyper. Being a modeling amp it shouldn't have any trouble with any genre, really.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#22
Yeah thats true but just wanted to make sure... And the other thing is wouldn't a 60W tube amp be super loud for home use??
#23
It'll always sound better cranked, but despite popular beliefs you can run a tube amp pretty soft and get some usable sounds. I run my 100 watt ENGL at whisper volumes.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#24
I'd listen to cathbard, I believe the Excelsior is a pretty fine choice with a nice boost like he also suggested.

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Last edited by Perverockstar69 at Oct 10, 2012,
#25
Quote by meqws
Yeah thats true but just wanted to make sure... And the other thing is wouldn't a 60W tube amp be super loud for home use??


Yeah, if you crank it, but you don't have to. Remember, amps have volume knobs for a reason. Test the amp independent of its wattage. If it does the sound you want at the volume you want, its the amp for you, who gives a **** if its 1 watt or 1000 watts?

Quote by Perverockstar69
I'd listen to cathbard, I believe the Excelsior is a pretty fine choice with a nice boost like he also suggested.


I honestly think there are a lot of amps that can do an approximation of Santana's tone, the Excelsior included.

I liked the Excelsior I tried, and I think with a nice OD pedal it could do some decent santana. I will say that it isn't nearly as versatile as a vyper 60.

In the end, its up to you TS, try out some amps and see what you like.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#26
About the Vypyr 60, I've heard it sounds damn well with low volume!

Mesa Royal Atlantic
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#27
Quote by Kevin Saale
Yeah, if you crank it, but you don't have to. Remember, amps have volume knobs for a reason. Test the amp independent of its wattage. If it does the sound you want at the volume you want, its the amp for you, who gives a **** if its 1 watt or 1000 watts?


I honestly think there are a lot of amps that can do an approximation of Santana's tone, the Excelsior included.

I liked the Excelsior I tried, and I think with a nice OD pedal it could do some decent santana. I will say that it isn't nearly as versatile as a vyper 60.

In the end, its up to you TS, try out some amps and see what you like.


Yeah I'm aware of the volume knobs on the amps. But the thing I meant was that most people suggest to crank up tube amps to get the best out of it, like I mentioned in the previous posts... So the thing I was actually questioning was if I can get a good sound without cranking up. Some people say its possible some say its still not as good.
#28
For Santana you have to push the preamp hard, you don't really want power amp distortion, well not a lot. That means you don't have to run them loud. You drive the input harder, not the output. That's how you make a Fender sound like a Mesa - boost the shit out of the front end. So as much signal as you can throw at it.
I suggested a Timmy but any basically flat, clean boost will do the trick. An MXR 10 band EQ is a fine way to do it because it can generate quite high signals. You can use a tubescreamer running clean but you have to boost the bass a bit on the amp to compensate.

The other thing that helps trick your ears into thinking it's a Mark 1 Mesa is to run a compressor. Here's why; the boost in the front end of a Mesa (that stops it being a Princeton preamp) is tube driven and you're clipping the bejeezus outa it. That is a form of compression in itself and being tube driven it has a soft knee - like a compressor pedal.
I use a Boss compressor (Roland GP-8) but I also have an amp that is doing much the same on the third channel - a tube boost. So I don't need much compression to Mesa it up. There are lots of nice compressors out there, I just use the Roland one because it's there in my rack already.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 10, 2012,