#1
i have a VHT special 6 ultra with a JJ 6v6 and JJ 12ax7's. is there anything i can do to add a little bit more gain in the way of tubes or is this about is as good as it will get (brands aside)?
#2
Quote by andrerist
i have a VHT special 6 ultra with a JJ 6v6 and JJ 12ax7's. is there anything i can do to add a little bit more gain in the way of tubes or is this about is as good as it will get (brands aside)?

There could possibly be a 12AX7 that breaks up a little sooner or gives slightly more output to push the power section... But to be honest I'd be suspicious of anyone that made that claim.

I think you're pretty much getting as much as gain as you're gonna get.

Maybe get an overdrive to use as a boost?
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#3
^ that's what i'd have thought.
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#6
But those ones are higher gain... You CAN'T change your 6V6 for 6L6. So, no no.

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#7
i know on the normal special 6 they say you can put most power tubes in there. I guess you could email vht and see what they say.

6L6 won't give you more gain, though. it'll give you more volume and headroom.
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#8
Really? Very different power tubes? I didn't check that :O.

And yes, no more gain, but more volume and headroom sometimes is really nice, it depends on your needs.

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#9
If you're looking for "gain" in the traditional sense, the power tube is the wrong place to look. And TBH, tube rolling 12AX7's isn't going to do anything appreciable.

I guess we need to know what you're trying to accomplish in better detail.
#10
Quote by Perverockstar69
Really? Very different power tubes? I didn't check that :O.

And yes, no more gain, but more volume and headroom sometimes is really nice, it depends on your needs.


yeah- they say you can, anyway. I haven't tried it, the 6v6 already does more or less what i want.

and yeah, of course more headroom can be cool if that's what you want.

Quote by CECamps
If you're looking for "gain" in the traditional sense, the power tube is the wrong place to look.


that's what i was gonna say

and agreed regarding the preamp tubes. I mean unless you have a 12at7 or something in there for some reason, i doubt changing to a high gain 12ax7 is going to do all that much (though i could be wrong, i haven't tried any 12ax7s which were labelled as being "high gain"... the cynic in me suspects it's marketing more than anything else )
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#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
the cynic in me suspects it's marketing more than anything else

+1

I don't distrust Doug's Tubes, but that just seems odd to me. If there truly was a 12AX7 with an appreciably greater output then why isn't it called something else, like the lower output 12AT7 or the 12AY7? Just makes me think it's all hype.
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#12
Quote by tubetime86
+1

I don't distrust Doug's Tubes, but that just seems odd to me. If there truly was a 12AX7 with an appreciably greater output then why isn't it called something else, like the lower output 12AT7 or the 12AY7? Just makes me think it's all hype.


Well, the AT7 and the AY7 have a different construction from an AX7. Technically its possible to have a 'higher gain' tube, because tubes vary so much. That being said, I don't think it'll make a difference.
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#13
I'd just stick a nice clean boost in front of the amp, like an MXR 10 band EQ or Microamp.
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#14
Quote by Cathbard
I'd just stick a nice clean boost in front of the amp, like an MXR 10 band EQ or Microamp.


damn, i wanted to be the first to give the non-tube advice

but i agree, a clean boost... or if you want more gain, stick an OD in there. the micro amp works great in front of an amp though.
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#15
Quote by tubetime86
Maybe get an overdrive to use as a boost?

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#17
Good thought, 311. That hadn't occurred to me.
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#19
Hey, something just came to me, I don't think anyone else mentioned it yet. What about using an OD as a boost?


Quote by tubetime86
+1

I don't distrust Doug's Tubes, but that just seems odd to me. If there truly was a 12AX7 with an appreciably greater output then why isn't it called something else, like the lower output 12AT7 or the 12AY7? Just makes me think it's all hype.


haha yeah

Quote by Kevin Saale
Well, the AT7 and the AY7 have a different construction from an AX7. Technically its possible to have a 'higher gain' tube, because tubes vary so much. That being said, I don't think it'll make a difference.


oh yeah, of course- but it's still presumably going to be within certain limits. I mean... they always say a 12ax7 has a gain of, say, 100, and a 5751 has a gain of about 70. I'm guessing that means the 12ax7 maybe has a range of between maybe 90 and 110. but if you really want to lower the gain, you'd get a different tube, and presumably the reverse is true for increasing the gain... there are better, more efficient ways to do it which might actually work.
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#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
oh yeah, of course- but it's still presumably going to be within certain limits. I mean... they always say a 12ax7 has a gain of, say, 100, and a 5751 has a gain of about 70. I'm guessing that means the 12ax7 maybe has a range of between maybe 90 and 110. but if you really want to lower the gain, you'd get a different tube, and presumably the reverse is true for increasing the gain... there are better, more efficient ways to do it which might actually work.


No, I agree with you, just pointing out the whole idea probably isn't totally snake oil. Like I said though, not really gonna be what the TS wants in this case.
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#24
Its not right. The problem with the 5751 is, from what I've heard, the NOS JAN tubes (the one most people are gonna have) were close to the same gain as a 12AX7, even though the 5751 isn't supposed to be.

From what I've read though its;

12AX7 100
5751 70
12AT7 60
12AY7 50

Like I said though, I think those 5751s were hotter than their rating, because every amp I've put them in I never felt like I had less gain, or not 30% less.
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#25
when they say high gain tube they mean one that is tested to have around 90+

that isn't to say that a normal tube you buy can't have 90+ gain if it's not listed as high gain...it just means it was never screened...

unless the retailer has a strict policy to screen all of their tubes.

a good 5751 can easily have more gain then an average new production 12ax7.

you'be looking at somewhere between the 60-85 range for both.
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#27
Close, it's:

12AX7 100
5751 70
12AT7 60
12AY7 45
12AU7 19

However it is not uncommon for a modern 12AX7 to be down around 80 or 90 so a NOS 5751 seems closer than it should on paper.
In reality, 10% difference is sweet **** all really and can pretty much be considered 0%.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 12, 2012,
#28
Quote by Cathbard
Close, it's:

12AX7 100
5751 70
12AT7 60
12AY7 45
12AU7 19

However it is not uncommon for a modern 12AX7 to be down around 80 or 90 so a NOS 5751 seems closer than it should on paper.
In reality, 10% difference is sweet **** all really and can pretty much be considered 0%.

Maybe that is what I was thinking
#29
Quote by Kevin Saale
No, I agree with you, just pointing out the whole idea probably isn't totally snake oil. Like I said though, not really gonna be what the TS wants in this case.


yep

Quote by AcousticMirror
when they say high gain tube they mean one that is tested to have around 90+

that isn't to say that a normal tube you buy can't have 90+ gain if it's not listed as high gain...it just means it was never screened...

unless the retailer has a strict policy to screen all of their tubes.

a good 5751 can easily have more gain then an average new production 12ax7.

you'be looking at somewhere between the 60-85 range for both.


that too. I've heard the NOS 5751s are more or less 12ax7s in terms of gain, but i haven't tried them. I (briefly) tried a sovtek 5751 in my vht special 6- it had a bit less gain. I didn't really like it, though, so i took it out (not because of the gain, i just thought it sounded a bit bland).
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#30
Actually....on a slightly serious note, there is a drop-in preamp tube replacement that gives you a lot more gain than the normal 12AX7:



Yeah....solid state valves, eh?
#31
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Maybe that is what I was thinking

If you were to compare the Phillips 5751 to a Phillips 12AX7 from the same era the difference would be far more evident. Good luck finding a Phillips genuine NOS 12AX7 for under $100 though.


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Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 13, 2012,