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ToneMasterDelux
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Join date: May 2011
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#1
We've all had those days we have trouble playing, the problem is I feel like this has been happening and getting worse for a week or two.

Usually I'm pretty good at improvising (at least thats what people say) and I can make things sound pretty melodic. Lately I've found my improvising is terrible and does not sound cohesive at all. The strange thing is that this usually happens when I focus more on scales and modes for a while, my teacher has told me to do a bunch of scales and 2nds and 3rds and such everyday and I'm wondering why this would cause me problems.

I still try jamming with friends and backing tracks and cds everyday but it doesn't get better and certainly not back to where I was at a week or two ago, what is wrong with me and how can I fix it? I kind of feel locked within the scales but even thinking outside of them doesn't help and you'd think knowing the scales would help...
AngelCityOutlaw
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Join date: Aug 2012
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#2
does not sound cohesive at all


This part makes me think three things:

1. You're not following the harmonic changes. Therefore, your melodies lack direction and aren't overly harmonious with the backing track.

2. You're not playing in time.

3. All of the above.

I'm not sure what your skill level is, but from what I've seen, 9/10 times the reasons I listed are exactly the problem. Ya can't just play scales randomly and expect it to sound great and flow together.

But like I say, I have no idea what your skill level is.
GiG-DaDDy
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#3
Start with easy pentatonic scales (in the box), until you get the feel & flow of your playing, recognize the patterns, change the positions but following the chords.

Build yourself from there.

What would really help, if you record yourself playing the chords on your computer or if you have a track recorder (eg GNX4), then playback the chord progression & follow using simple pentatonic scales, if you have a drum machine to...play the chord structure around that.

A simple chord progression I IV V progression (simple blues) E A B or A D E, lots of songs use this progression.

Good luck!
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pwrmax
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#4
Quote by ToneMasterDelux
(at least thats what people say)

That would be your problem there
Hail
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#5
think about this for a second, TS: why do you want to improvise?
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fenderbassist12
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#6
Quote by Hail
think about this for a second, TS: why do you want to improvise?


Yeah, because improvising is pointless


I've been in the same boat as you. Are you talking about improvising on a lead style, or improvising progressions for a lead to play on top of? Either way one way to help is to start with a basic riff to jam over, then work on transitions into different parts using chords within the key. If you are playing lead, you have to trust your rhythm section to make progression changes while you solo. If you are playing rhythm (bass or guitar), experiment with different progressions. For example if you are playing in A Aeolian, one of my go to part Bs to a jam would be going down to the low E then to the F then back to the E, creating a Phrygian type sound. Or if you are playing in A Aeolian, you could go to C major chord to change the type of sound and effect it has under the lead.
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ToneMasterDelux
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#7
Quote by Hail
think about this for a second, TS: why do you want to improvise?

Well, mostly because that is one of the things I love most about guitar playing. It is also a way that I find produces some good songs and licks and I'm pretty inspired by jam bands.

To the others I would say I am moderate leveled, I could always learn more theory/ sight reading. This isn't a matter of not understanding concepts, by cohesive I meant that it fits into the song and is in the correct key but I feel I can no longer make it sound like a song.

What I used to do was play very much by ear and location syncopation (that is I can easily find the key of the song) then from there use scale and fretboard patterns to connect the notes and play what I want. Now after playing scales for a while my playing feels more linear and does not encompass the majority of the fret board but feels locked within a pattern such as playing in a 1E scale then just moving up to a 2A scale and not playing in between at all.
AeolianWolf
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#8
Quote by fenderbassist12
Yeah, because improvising is pointless


when you know the why, the how is easy.

I've been in the same boat as you. Are you talking about improvising on a lead style, or improvising progressions for a lead to play on top of? Either way one way to help is to start with a basic riff to jam over, then work on transitions into different parts using chords within the key. If you are playing lead, you have to trust your rhythm section to make progression changes while you solo. If you are playing rhythm (bass or guitar), experiment with different progressions. For example if you are playing in A Aeolian, one of my go to part Bs to a jam would be going down to the low E then to the F then back to the E, creating a Phrygian type sound. Or if you are playing in A Aeolian, you could go to C major chord to change the type of sound and effect it has under the lead.


there's a bit more to it than telling TS to use a phrygian half cadence.

if you can't improvise, angelcityoutlaw's pretty much got it. your melodies likely lack direction, and this means you aren't using your ear. to improvise at a basic level, you only need a sufficient degree of technical ability on your instrument, and you need an ear. you might not be listening -- are you playing the guitar or is the guitar playing you?

i have no idea what you're talking about with "1E" and "2A", and that's saying something. but regardless, there's your problem - you're playing scales. you're focusing on patterns. consider the question i posed rhetorical; the guitar is playing you.

focus on using your ear. improvise over a track and limit yourself to 2-3 notes per chord. start learning to construct small melody snippets in real time. this will help you learn to improvise far more than playing a few scales will.
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fenderbassist12
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#9
Quote by AeolianWolf
when you know the why, the how is easy.


there's a bit more to it than telling TS to use a phrygian half cadence.

if you can't improvise, angelcityoutlaw's pretty much got it. your melodies likely lack direction, and this means you aren't using your ear. to improvise at a basic level, you only need a sufficient degree of technical ability on your instrument, and you need an ear. you might not be listening -- are you playing the guitar or is the guitar playing you?

i have no idea what you're talking about with "1E" and "2A", and that's saying something. but regardless, there's your problem - you're playing scales. you're focusing on patterns. consider the question i posed rhetorical; the guitar is playing you.

focus on using your ear. improvise over a track and limit yourself to 2-3 notes per chord. start learning to construct small melody snippets in real time. this will help you learn to improvise far more than playing a few scales will.


I used to suck at improvising because you're right I would just play scales. After a few years though your ear will know which direction to go in better because you are more familiar with the tension between half steps and how to resolve back to the key. The patterns can put a limit on creativity, but it's pretty damn convenient to know every note in a key on every fret on every string. I'm not sure I have a "problem" other than not being able to explain myself clearly, which I will try to do better.

Also
Quote by AeolianWolf
when you know the why, the how is easy.


I don't know what you mean by this, are you agreeing with the guy saying that improvisation is pointless?
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Last edited by fenderbassist12 at Oct 15, 2012,
metalmetalhead
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#10
Quote by fenderbassist12

I don't know what you mean by this, are you agreeing with the guy saying that improvisation is pointless?


I doubt he's saying that..when you know whats wrong its easy fix. Finding your problem is the hard part.

I hard a few guitarist mention learning songs by hear..I heard sinister gates from a7x say that.

Didn't realize it at first, But I started transcribing everything I could. starting with X-mas corals, cartoon & movie themes. all single note melodies.

Then all of a sudden my solo sounded like a solo? not that great but not bad at all!

all the scales in the world wont train your ears. aeolian wolf is right you need to train your ears.
King Of Suede
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#11
Quote by ToneMasterDelux
We've all had those days we have trouble playing, the problem is I feel like this has been happening and getting worse for a week or two.

Usually I'm pretty good at improvising (at least thats what people say) and I can make things sound pretty melodic. Lately I've found my improvising is terrible and does not sound cohesive at all.

Subjective. I go through this all the time where I'll say "I don't like anything I played today" after a rehearsal and my buddies and instructor will go, "No, man. There were a few times when you would play something really nice, stop yourself and make some sound like you messed up."
It's a confidence thing. You could try this improvisation practice technique: Get a backing track going... Any time you feel like you should play something, dont. If you feel like you shouldn't play something, play something. It gets you to explore new phrasing ideas which is a great way to spice up a solo. The trap a lot of people learning to improvise fall into if finding one rhythmic phrase and working with that and that leads to stagnation of ideas very quickly.

The strange thing is that this usually happens when I focus more on scales and modes for a while, my teacher has told me to do a bunch of scales and 2nds and 3rds and such everyday and I'm wondering why this would cause me problems.

Because then you're thinking in terms of scales. Grinding scales in different ways (rhythms, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, etc., different positions on neck) are just technical exercises for you to do so that when you get an idea, no matter what it is in your head, your fingers are able to make it happen.
When you solo, if you're "playing changes" think in terms of the color tones (3rds, 7ths) and how they move throughout the changes. That can help give direction to your line.
Also focus on the overall "sound" of your solo. What I mean by this is do you want a flashy Charlie Parker solo thats technically impressive or do you want a grooving in-the-pocket solo like Wes Montgomery?

I still try jamming with friends and backing tracks and cds everyday but it doesn't get better and certainly not back to where I was at a week or two ago, what is wrong with me and how can I fix it? I kind of feel locked within the scales but even thinking outside of them doesn't help and you'd think knowing the scales would help...

Knowing scales helps to a point because that centers you around the "right notes."
Keep jamming with friends. When you jam with your friends, remember that it's not a performance and people aren't paying money to see you and no ones paying you money to play well. Play with people and MAKE MISTAKES. TAKE CHANCES. Because thats when you will discover new things.
Also, don't be afraid to play the same solo more than once. I don't mean note-for-note, but if you begin to develop an idea and don't like where it went, try it again the next time around and take it somewhere else.

You are going to reach plateaus in your playing. By that I mean there's going to be times when you feel like you're absorbing everything around you and you seem to get better every day and you'll really like what you're playing. Then you'll hit walls and you'll feel like you're going no where or moving backwards. This is when you have to work that hardest. The fact that this has been going on 2 weeks makes me think this is where you are.

KEEP GOING. YOU'RE DOING FINE.

Lastly, find new music. Learn that. Learn new ways to work in and out of chords. Or new ways to look at chord changes you already know. New music. New music. New music. Listen. Listen. Listen CRITICALLY. Absorb.
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HotspurJr
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#12
My question is this:

How good's your ear?

What can you tell us about what's going on when you improvise: what's your process? What are you (for lack of a better word) thinking?
Hail
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#13
Quote by fenderbassist12
I don't know what you mean by this, are you agreeing with the guy saying that improvisation is pointless?


a lot of people want to learn to improvise because they simply don't know a whole lot of music. i never said that it was pointless, but it's important to know why you want to do it. every guitarist comes here asking to improvise, but do you have a firm grasp on actually playing music as it was written?

or, for example, if TS wants to make improvisational jazz: "listen to improvisational jazz"

it's easy to ask the how without the why and by the end of the day you might reach results you later find aren't what you should have been looking for in the first place. same concept with "why can't i play 280 32nd note sweeps guys what am i doing wrong" threads
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AeolianWolf
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#14
Quote by fenderbassist12
I used to suck at improvising because you're right I would just play scales. After a few years though your ear will know which direction to go in better because you are more familiar with the tension between half steps and how to resolve back to the key. The patterns can put a limit on creativity, but it's pretty damn convenient to know every note in a key on every fret on every string. I'm not sure I have a "problem" other than not being able to explain myself clearly, which I will try to do better.


you're right, it's key to have the patterns under your fingers (and, ideally, in your ears).

most of that post was directed to the TS, though.

I don't know what you mean by this, are you agreeing with the guy saying that improvisation is pointless?


not at all. when you know why you want to do something, learning how to do it becomes far, far easier.
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ToneMasterDelux
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Join date: May 2011
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#15
Quote by Hail
a lot of people want to learn to improvise because they simply don't know a whole lot of music. i never said that it was pointless, but it's important to know why you want to do it. every guitarist comes here asking to improvise, but do you have a firm grasp on actually playing music as it was written?

Actually my current focus is on notation and classical guitar, however I like the process of creating rather than replaying, I know that playing written music has its benefits but I just don't get as much satisfaction from it.

Thank you to the KingofSuede, that was actually pretty helpful. As for Ears I try to do Ear training with EarMaster and also try to figure out songs on my own, I'm pretty good but I could use work on sections with intertwining melodies. I really don't have much trouble at all staying on key just lately its been keeping it interesting and unboxed.
Hail
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#16
do you compose anything yourself, or actually break down and analyze most songs you play? improvisation is just writing on the fly at the end of the day
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ToneMasterDelux
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#17
Quote by Hail
do you compose anything yourself, or actually break down and analyze most songs you play? improvisation is just writing on the fly at the end of the day

The way I usually compose is after finding something I played and thought was interesting then composing a song off of it, basically I use improvisation as a foundation but the majority of the song is thought out and composed over a period of time.
fenderbassist12
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#18
Improvisation I don't believe is writing on the fly. When you write music, you have a specific plan. Improvisation is just playing based on the reaction you get from whoever you are playing with, no writing at all.

One of my strategies for creating songs is recording jams where no direction is planned. You just play for 10 or so minutes, listen to it, and create a song from the good parts of the jam.
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AeolianWolf
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#19
Quote by fenderbassist12
Improvisation I don't believe is writing on the fly. When you write music, you have a specific plan. Improvisation is just playing based on the reaction you get from whoever you are playing with, no writing at all.

One of my strategies for creating songs is recording jams where no direction is planned. You just play for 10 or so minutes, listen to it, and create a song from the good parts of the jam.


if this is your approach, i'll be honest, and i mean this in the most non-confrontational way possible -- but i wouldn't want to listen to your improvisation. this method of thought does not make good improvisation. pretty much the only thing it does make is a couple of snippets to be able to use for new material, like you've said.

GOOD improvisation is nothing more than composition in real time.
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fenderbassist12
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#20
Ok, let me explain how I would go about an improvisational jam. Something easy would be a simple baseline starting in A Aeolian. I would start by playing a part A where it involves the root note, the octave, the b7 and the b6. The lead guitar can do as it pleases playing in that scale and it will sound fine. While the guitar is soloing, I would go down to the b6 then to the b7, then back to the b6, then to the b7, then repeat and then after the 4th measure instead of going back down to the b6 you walk up to the root note to your original "home base" riff. When I am playing bass during a live improv jam, all I am thinking about is making a new chord progression after the orginal one starts to get old. I'm not just randomly playing notes in the scale.
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#21
@KingOfSuede: That was a fantastic post and really inspired me
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Hail
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#22
music doesn't come from scales. scales come from the music.
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AeolianWolf
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#23
Quote by fenderbassist12
Ok, let me explain how I would go about an improvisational jam. Something easy would be a simple baseline starting in A Aeolian. I would start by playing a part A where it involves the root note, the octave, the b7 and the b6. The lead guitar can do as it pleases playing in that scale and it will sound fine. While the guitar is soloing, I would go down to the b6 then to the b7, then back to the b6, then to the b7, then repeat and then after the 4th measure instead of going back down to the b6 you walk up to the root note to your original "home base" riff. When I am playing bass during a live improv jam, all I am thinking about is making a new chord progression after the orginal one starts to get old. I'm not just randomly playing notes in the scale.


so what you're saying is, you're writing music in real time.
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metalmetalhead
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#24
Quote by fenderbassist12
Improvisation I don't believe is writing on the fly. When you write music, you have a specific plan. Improvisation is just playing based on the reaction you get from whoever you are playing with, no writing at all.



Quote by fenderbassist12

One of my strategies for creating songs is recording jams where no direction is planned. You just play for 10 or so minutes, listen to it, and create a song from the good parts of the jam.


Your contradicting yourself here. This is the same as improvising, writing on the fly. You deny it then you admit to using it as one of your writing styles lol.

I rarely have a direction in mind. I play something I hear something that might go with it. it keeps going from there. usually I find a progression that I like. I hear the words and melody in my head so I start singing. or it will be more of a guitar driven song..Ill hear solo melodies.

sometimes Im not in the mood. I don't hear everything the same just not into it...your just not in the mood at that point.
fenderbassist12
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#25
I just don't consider improvising "writing."
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Hail
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#26
Quote by fenderbassist12
I just don't consider improvising "writing."


i guess it's not writing if you're just throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks, but hey, whatever works for you
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AeolianWolf
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#27
Quote by fenderbassist12
I just don't consider improvising "writing."


if i may be so aggressive, i'd suggest you have a lot of things to reconsider. this being one of them. think outside the box a little more -- a small change in the way you do things can bring you a lot of results.
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HotspurJr
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#28
Quote by ToneMasterDelux

What I used to do was play very much by ear and location syncopation (that is I can easily find the key of the song) then from there use scale and fretboard patterns to connect the notes and play what I want. Now after playing scales for a while my playing feels more linear and does not encompass the majority of the fret board but feels locked within a pattern such as playing in a 1E scale then just moving up to a 2A scale and not playing in between at all.


So here's my guess as to what's going on.

You're playing PHYSICALLY, not musically.

That is to say, your ear is good enough for you to find the key, but not good enough to string out complex musical ideas mentally, so basically you're at the mercy of your fingers.

So why do some days of improvisation seem much better than others? Because it's basically random - you have no control over the process, your fingers and muscle memory does.

The next time you improvise, I'd encourage you to take a very different approach. Don't start playing right away.

Instead, listen. Listen to what everybody else is doing. And then wait until you hear something in your head that "wants" to be played and play that.

Don't play any notes that you don't hear in your head first.

Now, when you first start using this approach, it may be frustrating and slow. This is why I asked about your ear. The better your ear is, the shorter the gap between thinking of an idea and being able to play it - until there becomes, really, no gap at all. You think it and play it, just like when you're talking to someone you think of what you want to say SIMULTANEOUSLY with saying it. (Of course, sometimes we still stop to compose our thoughts, especially when expressing complex ideas. So it will be, also, with music.)

As you get better and better at this, your improvisation only becomes limited by the vividness of your musical imagination. And you'll see that - if you normally jam out to blues-rock stuff, and then spend a day listening to jazz lines and really immersing yourself in them, when you go jam the next day you'll jam differently - you'll be able to hear what you were listening to.

But more importantly, this lets you take control of your improvisation. Sure, you'll still have more creative and less creative days. But you will be able to drive the process.
mdc
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#29
^^ That was a great read. One of the best for sometime.
Hail
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#30
nice one HSJ
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fenderbassist12
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#31
Quote by AeolianWolf
if i may be so aggressive, i'd suggest you have a lot of things to reconsider. this being one of them. think outside the box a little more -- a small change in the way you do things can bring you a lot of results.



Improvisational writing just seems like an oxymoron to me? I'm not sure what direction you are trying to point me in. We can argue all we want, but it just comes down to what we play on our instruments. I'm pretty satisfied with my playing at the moment, and of course I'd like to improve, but I feel like the only way we could get somewhere in this argument is if we sat down together with our instruments and showed each other how we play.

I guess we just have different styles, however wrong I am. I'm sure you are a great musician, and I have been stubborn due to the fact that I believe I make good music too. I just don't think too technically when I play, I just play what comes to me when I'm jamming with my guitarist and drummer, which I thought improvisation is?
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HotspurJr
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#32
Quote by fenderbassist12
Ok, let me explain how I would go about an improvisational jam. Something easy would be a simple baseline starting in A Aeolian. I would start by playing a part A where it involves the root note, the octave, the b7 and the b6. The lead guitar can do as it pleases playing in that scale and it will sound fine. While the guitar is soloing, I would go down to the b6 then to the b7, then back to the b6, then to the b7, then repeat and then after the 4th measure instead of going back down to the b6 you walk up to the root note to your original "home base" riff. When I am playing bass during a live improv jam, all I am thinking about is making a new chord progression after the orginal one starts to get old. I'm not just randomly playing notes in the scale.


There are two things I don't like about this. One of which is sort of a guess based on how you're talking about it, and the other is a rather glaring omission.

The first is that it sounds like you're thinking about this intellectually. Now, I'm not totally sure here, but it sounds almost like you're thinking about note names and fret positions. "Now's a good time for the b6. Now's a good time for me to find a new chord." While this is better than just moving around randomly and letting your fingers take control, it's still one level removed from where you want to be - rather than thinking, "Okay, now I'll drop down to the b6 and work my way back up" (recognizing that might happen much quicker than we could articulate it) you want to be thinking "bum, badum dum dum dum DUM" - for lack of better words. It's the difference between thinking in sounds and thinking in note names/scale degrees.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong and it's just coming off this way because you're trying to translate it into text. I can't tell. But it does sound to me like you think about it intellectually rather than musically.

Because the second problem I have with this - and it's a doozy - is that nowhere do you mention paying attention attention to what the guitarist is doing. You say that all you're thinking about is coming up with a new chord progression, rather than thinking about what chord changes are implied by what the guitarist is doing.

Essentially, what you're describing is two people soloing simultaneously while standing next to each other. And that's not the same thing as a group improvisation.

Real group improvisation is really really hard and requires a tremendous amount of dedicated practice. It's also one of the most magical things you can do with a group of musicians.

But the difference is, I think, part of the "writing/improvising" distinction. You're writing if you're trying to think of what might sound cool once it's time for a change. You're improvising if you're reacting dynamically to what the musicians around you are doing. See the difference?
Hail
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#33
Quote by fenderbassist12
Improvisational writing just seems like an oxymoron to me? I'm not sure what direction you are trying to point me in. We can argue all we want, but it just comes down to what we play on our instruments. I'm pretty satisfied with my playing at the moment, and of course I'd like to improve, but I feel like the only way we could get somewhere in this argument is if we sat down together with our instruments and showed each other how we play.

I guess we just have different styles, however wrong I am. I'm sure you are a great musician, and I have been stubborn due to the fact that I believe I make good music too. I just don't think too technically when I play, I just play what comes to me when I'm jamming with my guitarist and drummer, which I thought improvisation is?


when you speak in a normal setting, it's not rehearsed. does that mean you don't think before you speak?
Quote by theogonia777
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ToneMasterDelux
UG's Question Kid
Join date: May 2011
2,155 IQ
#34
Thanks, HSJ, I think what happened is after all the scales I started to move away from really feeling the song and moved into making sure my notes fit directly into the scales. Using HSJ's my guitar teachers and Suede king's advice I actually had a really fun non angering jam session last night and finally began to use notes that don't exactly "fit in" to the scale patterns.

As for this whole improvisation debate (I'm sure I'll get bitched at for this) but I don't care how you write music as long as it has actual value to you. Music is an art and if you learn one thing from art it should be that beauty comes from creativity which sometimes comes from breaking the rules.
Hail
i'm a mean bully
Join date: Jan 2010
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#35
Quote by ToneMasterDelux


As for this whole improvisation debate (I'm sure I'll get bitched at for this) but I don't care how you write music as long as it has actual value to you. Music is an art and if you learn one thing from art it should be that beauty comes from creativity which sometimes comes from breaking the rules.


but he doesn't write music, he says
Quote by theogonia777
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ToneMasterDelux
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#36
Quote by Hail
but he doesn't write music, he says

Then I guess that's the equivalent of scribbling.

But I digress, this is not my squabble and I need to play guitar, Peace.
TheHydra
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2011
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#37
I have this problem except it's purely with improvising through humming and in my head. It's incredibly frustrating, considering my number one goal is to make music that I want to hear.

When I say "purely" I don't mean to say my instrumental improv is better. It's substantially worse.
Last edited by TheHydra at Oct 16, 2012,
fenderbassist12
with that fresh funk
Join date: Nov 2006
861 IQ
#38
Quote by HotspurJr
There are two things I don't like about this. One of which is sort of a guess based on how you're talking about it, and the other is a rather glaring omission.

The first is that it sounds like you're thinking about this intellectually. Now, I'm not totally sure here, but it sounds almost like you're thinking about note names and fret positions. "Now's a good time for the b6. Now's a good time for me to find a new chord." While this is better than just moving around randomly and letting your fingers take control, it's still one level removed from where you want to be - rather than thinking, "Okay, now I'll drop down to the b6 and work my way back up" (recognizing that might happen much quicker than we could articulate it) you want to be thinking "bum, badum dum dum dum DUM" - for lack of better words. It's the difference between thinking in sounds and thinking in note names/scale degrees.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong and it's just coming off this way because you're trying to translate it into text. I can't tell. But it does sound to me like you think about it intellectually rather than musically.

Because the second problem I have with this - and it's a doozy - is that nowhere do you mention paying attention attention to what the guitarist is doing. You say that all you're thinking about is coming up with a new chord progression, rather than thinking about what chord changes are implied by what the guitarist is doing.

Essentially, what you're describing is two people soloing simultaneously while standing next to each other. And that's not the same thing as a group improvisation.

Real group improvisation is really really hard and requires a tremendous amount of dedicated practice. It's also one of the most magical things you can do with a group of musicians.

But the difference is, I think, part of the "writing/improvising" distinction. You're writing if you're trying to think of what might sound cool once it's time for a change. You're improvising if you're reacting dynamically to what the musicians around you are doing. See the difference?



I can sort of see the difference you are talking about.

Usually my guitarist just plays lead, or will play a riff that I will catch on and make my own part to. Our music is definitely not "two people soloing simultaneously". I focus more on rhythm than I do on notes, and when we play music we sounds real tight and funky. Changing chord progressions just adds that extra umph to the jam you dont get from just feeling the rhythm.

I must have comprehended a different meaning from "writing" than you guys. If by writing you mean making music, without necessarily physically writing it down and tweaking it until it sounds good, then sure I write music. Typically its just us hanging out, we go into the jam room, bust a few ~8 minute grooves. Then take a break and repeat. We will eventually get into a groove that we think sounds really good, so then at the open mic we say lets play 'that' one we played earlier. Then we have a general idea of the motif of the jam and then just play until we feel it come to an end.
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metalmetalhead
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#39
Quote by fenderbassist12
Improvisational writing just seems like an oxymoron to me? I'm not sure what direction you are trying to point me in. We can argue all we want, but it just comes down to what we play on our instruments. I'm pretty satisfied with my playing at the moment, and of course I'd like to improve, but I feel like the only way we could get somewhere in this argument is if we sat down together with our instruments and showed each other how we play.

I guess we just have different styles, however wrong I am. I'm sure you are a great musician, and I have been stubborn due to the fact that I believe I make good music too. I just don't think too technically when I play, I just play what comes to me when I'm jamming with my guitarist and drummer, which I thought improvisation is?


I don't think your wrong. but I think you should be more open minded. your music sounds pretty good. You didn't come up with none of that improvising?

It doesn't have to written on paper to be called writing. Most of my music is just recorded.
CryogenicHusk
wannabe guitarist
Join date: Apr 2012
1,005 IQ
#40
Quote by metalmetalhead
It doesn't have to written on paper to be called writing. Most of my music is just recorded.



It comes down to this. Although I've only been in 2 bands, we'd always say we "wrote" x amount of new songs, but none of us ever physically wrote anything down. That wouldn't have been very punk, lol.

Anyway, actually writing something is only important if you want somebody else to play it, or if you think you might forget it later, imho.