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LIPCoelho
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Join date: Oct 2012
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#1
Hello everybody,

I've been playing guitar for the last 4 years, the last 2 with a Progressive Death/Thrash band from my hometown in Europe. I have an Ibanez RG321Ex, with mohogany body, 24frets, passive Infinity humbuckers and fixed bridge, with a Pod X3 Live and a two different amps (not relevant), and recently I decided that i wanted a new guitar, and that i wanted a very different guitar from the one i have. the specs i was look for are:
-24 frets
-active pickups
-i prefer mohogany or basswood for the body
-a GOOD floyd rose bridge
-V shaped body, not too edgy (for that, i would have gone after a Warrior, a Falchion, a Beast or a Warlock), but not soft like the Gibson Flying V.

Since in my band we play very different things, from acoustic, clean and melodic to dirty distorted sounds, spanning from lead to rythmic playing, i wanted a guitar that could deal with all these aspects. also, i wanted a guitar to last a lifetime, for i will not invest in a new guitar (thats why i call it the ultimate guitar). i came up with these 3 guitars and i wanted to ask which one would you choose, which one is better than the rest or with better cost-quality relation.

1 - dean razorback V/V-shaped dean


i loved Dean guitars since ever. that head stock is shear perfection and having a guitar designed by Dime...amazing. dean also has a lot of street cred, but this guitars can be hard to find (specially with the 24fret spec), are expensive and i fear it wont be cost-efficient.

2 - jackson demmelition king v/demmeltion PDX with set of active pickups

i'm really into MH, i love their sound, and i find this guitar really pretty. the original demmeltion has active pickups, but it might be too much for my budget, whereas the PDX may lack some quality and have active pickups (in this case, i would buy a set of active pickups), but the investment is lower, its easier to find and jackson does really neat guitars for metal.

3 - schecter jeff loomis jlv-7fr or jlv-6fr

jeff loomis is an amazing guitar player. having his signature V guitar with a 7th string, i felt could be a great deal, eventhough im not really that proficient and do not require a 7th string. but i find this guitar too expensive and too hard to find.

4 - Jackson KVMG Pro Series King V and Jackson KVMG QM Pro Series King V


i prefer the demmelition shape, but the specs are really what matter.


5 - BC Rich NJ JRV Deluxe (this one is for curiosity)

never been a fan, just wanted to know opinions. i've heard BC Rich has awful quality management, and im not up for a risky gamble

6 - DBZ Venom and DBZ Venom FM


i love the headstock, but the body just might be too much, still trying to decide. thoughts? i heard they're amazing guitars, great quality and not that costly (unlike the Dean ones)

7 - DBZ Caballo

unlike the previous one, this might be not enough metal.


my budget is around $1.300/1.000€ tops, i don't mind looking for 2nd handed guitars but, for an original one, i plan to send at least $700/450€, to ensure i can find a good quality guitar. I am open to suggesstions from other brands, as well as info about stores i can buy them, alternatives, advices, etc.

thanks and keep it metal
Last edited by LIPCoelho at Oct 26, 2012,
gregs1020
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#2
the dean has the most points.
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dannyalcatraz
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#3
I own a couple of Deans myself, and love them. But I suspect the Jackson will give you the most bang for the buck.
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Buffb
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#5
Have a look at the DBZ Venom, has EMG 81/85's,OFR and is an out and out V with points and fancy headstock. Is really nice looking, plays fantastically and is in effect a Dean being as Zelinski who used to own Dean is responsible for it. Come in at good money and they aren't to bad at all.
T00DEEPBLUE
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#6
Quote by Tom 1.0

+1

Badass guitar.
Quote by LIPCoelho

i loved Dean guitars since ever. that head stock is shear perfection and having a guitar designed by Dime...amazing. dean also has a lot of street cred, but this guitars can be hard to find (specially with the 24fret spec), are expensive and i fear it wont be cost-efficient.

...You have no idea do you?

The bolded part is the only part about Dean that is true. They are the most overpriced POS guitars ever imo. And there is absolutely nothing cool about having Dime's name on the headstock of your guitar, it just makes you look like a wannabe.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Oct 25, 2012,
LIPCoelho
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#8
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I own a couple of Deans myself, and love them. But I suspect the Jackson will give you the most bang for the buck.

what do you like in your Dean guitars? can you compare them with other brands?

Quote by Buffb
Have a look at the DBZ Venom, has EMG 81/85's,OFR and is an out and out V with points and fancy headstock. Is really nice looking, plays fantastically and is in effect a Dean being as Zelinski who used to own Dean is responsible for it. Come in at good money and they aren't to bad at all.

im not really into the aestethics of the DBZ Venom, and the price seems to be over my budget; i will seem if i can find better deals. i know DBZ has great quality, Zelinski ensures that, and the headstock m,ight be even better looking than the Dime one. have you ever play one of these?

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
+1
They are the most overpriced POS guitars ever imo. And there is absolutely nothing cool about having Dime's name on the headstock of your guitar, it just makes you look like a wannabe.

why you say Dean guitars are POS? there seems to be a love/hate relation with Dean guitars, either you love them, either you hate them. why dont you like them?

Quote by griffin888
Used Loomis.

that was what i wanted the most. but you is going to sell a guitar like that?
Last edited by LIPCoelho at Oct 25, 2012,
griffin888
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#9
Schecters have bad resale value. If you can't find a Loomis, look for a 7 string Hellraiser on eBay. I've seen them as low as 350 bucks used.
Darkdevil725
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#10
The dean looks like it has better upper fret access than the other two.
T00DEEPBLUE
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#11
Quote by LIPCoelho

why you say Dean guitars are POS? there seems to be a love/hate relation with Dean guitars, either you love them, either you hate them. why dont you like them?

Because they're stupidly overpriced. They charge more than most brands for the same features and yet they just don't do such a good job at installing such features. You spend over $1000 for a Dime sig Razorback and they don't even use Original Floyd Rose trems. They used licensed trems and even then, the old Jackson licensed trems are better. That's just one example. The high end pro series Jacksons cost a little over $1000 and were great MIJ guitars with better pickups, hardware and i've never heard of a single bad thing about them from anybody.

The non-USA made Dime guitars are poorly constructed too. I've heard stories about people taking apart an Explosion Razorback (one of the higher-end Korean Dime sigs) to find that there were knots in the 'mahogany' body and the body was made from 5 pieces. The pickups they use are crap (even the aftermarket Dimebuckers they choose to use suck) and they are all look freaking terrible. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have 'DIME' in massive letters on the headstocks, but they do and it makes each guitar look like a toy.

I'm sure that if you only play at home that wouldn't be such a big deal, but if you're doing gigs, having a Razorback or an ML just screams to people that you want to be like Dime. Its just not a good look.

If you want a V for $1000 with active pickups, I'd get a Gibson 68 Flying V and put EMG's in it or something. I'd rather not have a trem at all than one that doesn't work.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Oct 25, 2012,
Controlpanel
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#12
those Loomis models are fantastic guitars.
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But theres no reason why i cant be free like a raspberry stuck to the back of a horny elephants ass.

This is maybe the worst comparison in the history of comparisons.
FenrirFangs
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#13
I got a Jackson RR24 for $425 this summer. It absolutely shits on every Dean guitar I've ever played. Get a Jackson.
LIPCoelho
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#14
Quote by griffin888
Schecters have bad resale value. If you can't find a Loomis, look for a 7 string Hellraiser on eBay. I've seen them as low as 350 bucks used.

thanks, didn't know that. its just a matter of opportunity, because im not looking for a 7string V guitar, but i the deal was good, i might consider it

Quote by Darkdevil725
The dean looks like it has better upper fret access than the other two.

already tested the Demmelition PDX and no problem with the upper frets. the dean has the advantage to have only 22, with a shorter scale length

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Because they're stupidly overpriced. They charge (...)If you want a V for $1000 with active pickups, I'd get a Gibson 68 Flying V and put EMG's in it or something. I'd rather not have a trem at all than one that doesn't work.

thats something new to me, never heard anything like that Dean related.
i used to want a Gibson Flying V but the aesthetics doesn't do that much for me. and i agree with you, it the guitar is to have a tremolo bar, better make it a good one or keep with the fixed bridge.

Quote by FenrirFangs
I got a Jackson RR24 for $425 this summer. It absolutely shits on every Dean guitar I've ever played. Get a Jackson.

have you ever played with a Dean or any other V shaped guitar (for comparison)? how's the tremolo on that Rhoads?

i'm doing some research, it seems to me i'll have to increase my list

EDIT: done adding new info
Last edited by LIPCoelho at Oct 25, 2012,
MaaZeus
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#15
The lack of BC Rich Draco is disturbing.
http://www.thomann.de/fi/bcrich_draco.htm
Unlike the guitars which you can use to impale someone the above guitar will impale you just from trying to play it. So much more metal! \m/
Just kidding.

Judging from the looks only I vote either Demmelition or Loomis. Both look amazing. Though I have to ask what makes you say DBZ is not metal enough?

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LIPCoelho
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#16
Quote by MaaZeus
The lack of BC Rich Draco is disturbing.
http://www.thomann.de/fi/bcrich_draco.htm
Unlike the guitars which you can use to impale someone the above guitar will impale you just from trying to play it. So much more metal! \m/
Just kidding.

Judging from the looks only I vote either Demmelition or Loomis. Both look amazing. Though I have to ask what makes you say DBZ is not metal enough?

God, the Draco is so ugly... its just too much.

Both demmelition and loomis are expensive; what do you think about the Jackson Pro series? Also, whats your opinion about the Dean guitars?

the DBZ caballo isn't "metal" enough for me, i'd like the DBZ venom more, the looks are more what i'm aimng at.
jeleopard
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#17
Jackson or go home.
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LIPCoelho
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#18
Quote by jeleopard
Jackson or go home.

which one? which one of the jacksons has better quality-price relationship, IYO?
jeleopard
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#19
The PRO series one. Not a fan of the Phil Demmel one.
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#20
Quote by MaaZeus
The lack of BC Rich Draco is disturbing.
http://www.thomann.de/fi/bcrich_draco.htm
Unlike the guitars which you can use to impale someone the above guitar will impale you just from trying to play it. So much more metal! \m/
Just kidding.

Judging from the looks only I vote either Demmelition or Loomis. Both look amazing. Though I have to ask what makes you say DBZ is not metal enough?


... Is this guy for real?
Actually, I go by Dave, but there are already too many Daves on this forum.


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LIPCoelho
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#21
Quote by jeleopard
The PRO series one. Not a fan of the Phil Demmel one.

due to aesthetics or something else?
MaaZeus
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#22
Quote by LIPCoelho
God, the Draco is so ugly... its just too much.

Both demmelition and loomis are expensive; what do you think about the Jackson Pro series? Also, whats your opinion about the Dean guitars?

the DBZ caballo isn't "metal" enough for me, i'd like the DBZ venom more, the looks are more what i'm aimng at.


If you think thats too much, google Moser Guitars.

No opinion about Dean as I've never played one myself. I'm a beginner so my experience with different guitars is quite limited. But judging from the looks the top Dean looks damn good but the red one just makes me ask that can you even play it sitting down without having those spikes pressing against your thigh?

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LIPCoelho
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#23
Quote by kangaxxter
... Is this guy for real?

guy's just kidding... nobody from a non-Black Metal band ever bought a BC Rich Draco.
jeleopard
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#24
Quote by LIPCoelho
due to aesthetics or something else?


Partially

But the Pro King V KVMG has an ebony fret board and the trem is better. The Phil Demmel sports a Jackson LFR which is eh. The Pro has a Floyd Rose 2000.
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LIPCoelho
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#25
Quote by MaaZeus
If you think thats too much, google Moser Guitars.

No opinion about Dean (...)just makes me ask that can you even play it sitting down without having those spikes pressing against your thigh?

I know of Moser guitars, Ol Drake uses the Bastard V

Death metal is about pain, suffering, torture and death, if you feel it when you're writting death metal, it will be more realistic and brutal

Quote by jeleopard
Pro King V KVMG has an ebony fret board and the trem is better. The Phil Demmel sports a Jackson LFR which is eh. The Pro has a Floyd Rose 2000.

i read that the original Demmelition (not the PDX) has also a FRT2000 also. thats the spec they have on their webside. but the PDX has a Jackson LFR which has to be weaker.
whats the big deal with ebony fretboards? do they make bending sound better?
MaaZeus
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#26
... Is this guy for real?


Good lord no! Even I can see when something is simply too much, thats why I putted it there.

guy's just kidding... nobody from a non-Black Metal band ever bought a BC Rich Draco.


And even though I am a black metalhead I still wouldnt touch Dracos with then foot pole.


I know of Moser guitars, Ol Drake uses the Bastard V Death metal is about pain, suffering, torture and death, if you feel it when you're writting death metal, it will be more realistic and brutal


Good point!

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 26, 2012,
LIPCoelho
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#27
Quote by MaaZeus
And even though I am a black metalhead I still wouldnt touch Dracos with then foot pole.

i didnt say *EVERY* black metalhead bought Dracos
jeleopard
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#28
Quote by LIPCoelho


i read that the original Demmelition (not the PDX) has also a FRT2000 also. thats the spec they have on their webside. but the PDX has a Jackson LFR which has to be weaker.
whats the big deal with ebony fretboards? do they make bending sound better?


The USA Made Demmel is also very expensive.

Ebony feels nice (imo) and I THINK it makes your sound a tad bit brighter.
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LIPCoelho
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#29
Quote by jeleopard
The USA Made Demmel is also very expensive.

Ebony feels nice (imo) and I THINK it makes your sound a tad bit brighter.

i know, that's the biggest boner breaker for me about it

how about the DBZ Venom series? you know anything about it?
Last edited by LIPCoelho at Oct 26, 2012,
jeleopard
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#30
I've played one DBZ before and didn't like it. It was a super strat, but it just felt.... not fun, y'know?
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LIPCoelho
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#31
Quote by jeleopard
I've played one DBZ before and didn't like it. It was a super strat, but it just felt.... not fun, y'know?

actually no xD i never played a DBZ. i know they're supposed to be mega awesome quality guitars, and they're not that expensive, but you mean not fun to play? how? bad sound? slow neck? bad access for upper frets? unbalanced weight?
jeleopard
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#32
Quote by LIPCoelho
actually no xD i never played a DBZ. i know they're supposed to be mega awesome quality guitars, and they're not that expensive, but you mean not fun to play? how? bad sound? slow neck? bad access for upper frets? unbalanced weight?


Uncomfy, mostly
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LIPCoelho
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#33
Quote by jeleopard
Uncomfy, mostly

while playing sat down? you play in a classical manner? from what i've seen and tried, some guitars are make to be played in a classical manner whistle others aren't that *picky*
sorry for spamming, i'm really just trying to get as much info as possible before i decide.
dannyalcatraz
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#34
My take on Deans & DBZs:

My first guitars were both Deans- a Special Select EVO and a Time Capsule Cadillac. They look good, they feel good, and the Caddy still sounds good. In fact, the Caddy stands up to several of my luthier-made guitars, and is still one of my main axes. The only problem I have had with the Caddy was a burr on its bridge, long since polished away.

The EVO suffers in that, as a midpriced guitar, its pickups are harsher than those in the Caddy or any of my luthier's guitars. Thus, I will be swapping its stock pickups for some Bareknuckles. Other than that issue, I have had nothing bad to say about it.

Below the $500 level, though, I wouldn't buy a Dean. There are too many other guitars that offer better value for money. I also am a bit leery of Dean's tremolos in general. But I don't play much trem- only one of my electrics has one (subject to change, of course)- so take my opinion on tremolos with a grain of salt.

DBZs continue Dean Z's legacy of delivering extremely playable guitars with a good sound and rock aesthetic. (I'm thinking of an Imperial or a Royale for myself.)

His newest company- Dean Zelinsky's Private Label Guitars- continues to innovate, but they don't seem to be aiming for metalheads at all, but more the sophisticated "elder statesman of rock" type aesthetic.

I also will not buy any signature models- save for possibly a Brian May Red Special- since those typically offer less value for money than is typical at a given price. You're largely paying for a name and a visual aesthetic, not anything that actually helps you sound better.
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alhaq369
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Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Oct 26, 2012,
J_W
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#35
Do not get the Dime V. When I was looking to get a guitar with a Floyd, my buddy let me take his home for a couple weeks. I hated playing that thing, I hated the trem, I hated everything about that guitar. It's just big and awkward and just felt plain bad to me. I have played a lot of guitars and this ranks among the worst I have played.
LIPCoelho
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#36
Quote by J_W
Do not get the Dime V. When I was looking to get a guitar with a Floyd, my buddy let me take his home for a couple weeks. I hated playing that thing, I hated the trem, I hated everything about that guitar. It's just big and awkward and just felt plain bad to me. I have played a lot of guitars and this ranks among the worst I have played.

wow, thanks for the heads up. a good floyd rose system is really something that i want and im looking for; i dont want anything worse than good when it comes to that. how much did your Dime V cost? any suggestion V-wise?

Quote by dannyalcatraz
My take on Deans & DBZs (...)you sound better.

1- i dont want to send $500, its too low of a price for what im aiming (unless its a ubber discount mega awesome deal, of course). im aiming for the level of $700-$1200 guitars for extra quality

2-regarding the DBZ, i dont think sophisticated "elder statesman of rock" would buy a Bird of Prey or a Venom, the latest being one of my possibilites, but thanks for the info

3-i agree with the sign thing, but the biggest drive for the Phil Demmel is the aesthetics, that i love, and the EMG60/81 PU. but i dont want to pay $1500 for one of those

im leaning more towards the Jackson Pro series and the DBZ Venom
Last edited by LIPCoelho at Oct 26, 2012,
Tom 1.0
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#38
Where do you live?

TS = Thread Starter.
LIPCoelho
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#39
Quote by Tom 1.0
Where do you live?

TS = Thread Starter.

Portugal, EU.
Tom 1.0
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#40
Ok cool. Your English is far better than my Portuguese.

Stop thinking in terms of dollars then buddy, it doesn't translate well to the relative value of guitars in Europe.

If your happy to buy from over seas, specifically the UK, I am happy to be a 'middle man' so to speak.

Personally I would be looking at purely 2nd hand guitars, maybe a Gibson Exorer, Jackson Kelly or RR24.

If you could say how much exactly in Euros you have, I will try and find you something, I presume you have about 700?