#1
What would you call a minor triad with an added minor 6th interval? I never see it on chord charts or anything. I played it and it sounds pretty cool. For two beats you can play it and then for 2 beats change the minor 6th to the P5 to relieve it...sounds like it makes for a nice progression.
#2
You mean a minor add13?
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#3
its a minor b13 chord, I wouldnt play the minor 6th together with the 5th from the minor triad tough
#5
Quote by DatAss
its a minor b13 chord, I wouldnt play the minor 6th together with the 5th from the minor triad tough


Why? I thought 6th intervals were considered imperfect consonances.
#6
Quote by Unreal T
Why? I thought 6th intervals were considered imperfect consonances.


It is from the root. From the 5th it creates a minor 2nd which is the most dissonant interval after the tritone.
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#7
It would only be a minor b13 if there was a b7 present; this is just an add b13.
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#9
Quote by J-Dawg158
It is from the root. From the 5th it creates a minor 2nd which is the most dissonant interval after the tritone.



I usually always think in terms of the root because that is the standard way to build chords and I usually always just hear the notes coming off the root. Like the m6 I just heard it as a m6 from the root.

If you are going to analyze it like that then would it make sense to analyze other chords in the same fashion. For example, analyzing the intervals off of other tones in the chord instead of the root? Like in a standard Gm7 bar chord you can analyze the intervals off of the minor 7th (F note) and find a major second (F on the D string to G on the high E string). So wouldn't that be a dissonance in the m7 chord?
#10
Quote by Unreal T
If you are going to analyze it like that then would it make sense to analyze other chords in the same fashion. For example, analyzing the intervals off of other tones in the chord instead of the root? Like in a standard Gm7 bar chord you can analyze the intervals off of the minor 7th (F note) and find a major second (F on the D string to G on the high E string). So wouldn't that be a dissonance in the m7 chord?


But that's how you analyze chords... or at least how I do it. And any chord other than a triad is gonna have dissonances within it.

Just having a 7th is already having a dissonance.
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#11
Quote by Unreal T
For two beats you can play it and then for 2 beats change the minor 6th to the P5 to relieve it...sounds like it makes for a nice progression.

What you're doing here is treating it as a auxiliary note. It's just melodic decoration, and should be used just so.

You can also use it as an anticipation for another chord.
Last edited by mdc at Oct 31, 2012,
#12
Quote by Unreal T
I usually always think in terms of the root because that is the standard way to build chords and I usually always just hear the notes coming off the root. Like the m6 I just heard it as a m6 from the root.


That's the best way to do it because it cuts down on a lot of confusion, but there's some knowledge to be had from looking at the internal intervals of chords. Aside from the root, 3rd, 5th definition you can also think of triads as a stack of thirds. Root to 3rd obviously being a 3rd, but 3rd to 5th is also a 3rd interval, as is 5th to 7th(a 3rd interval.)

From this you can easily see why there are 4 types of triads. You have a major and minor 3rd interval and you're stacking 2 of them together so 2^2=4. they of course are: Major, Minor, Augmented, and Diminished. Add the 7th and its 2^3=8 so there are 8 distinctive 7th chords.

Like in a standard Gm7 bar chord you can analyze the intervals off of the minor 7th (F note) and find a major second (F on the D string to G on the high E string). So wouldn't that be a dissonance in the m7 chord?


Yes, that's why 7th chords are usually described as having more "color" to them as opposed to triads, because of these internal dissonances. The key thing to take from this is that dissonance is not a bad thing, if used in the right context. It's just another tool for creating the mood or emotion you're trying to convey through sound. If you like the clash of the 5th and minor 6th then use it.

If you are going to analyze it like that then would it make sense to analyze other chords in the same fashion. For example, analyzing the intervals off of other tones in the chord instead of the root?


This you have to be careful with because you can confuse yourself in a hurry. You just have to remember that when looking at a different note of the chord it's just a reference point and that doesn't make it the new root of the chord or anything like that. It's one of those things you just have to wrap your mind around like why the ii chord of a major scale is spelled 1 - b3 - 5 instead of 2 - 4 - 6. The spelling is based off of the ii chord's own major scale as a reference. Just note that it can get complicated very fast.

But regardless it's always beneficial to come to understand not just the interaction of the notes of a chord with the tonic, but between all of the other notes as well.
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#14
In all honesty though, where is all of this 13 stuff coming from? Why wouldn't it just be a Maj7 in first inversion?
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#15
most likely, it's this:

Quote by griffRG7321
It's a minor chord with melodic decoration.


second most likely, this:

Quote by J-Dawg158
Why wouldn't it just be a Maj7 in first inversion?


if not those two, then it's a m(b6) chord.
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#16
Quote by DatAss
its a minor b13 chord, I wouldnt play the minor 6th together with the 5th from the minor triad tough
But then that would just be a major triad in first inversion.

Edit: Unless you're talking about a suspension or something, but then it still wouldn't be a minor b13, it would just be a suspension.
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Last edited by food1010 at Oct 31, 2012,
#18
Quote by food1010
But then that would just be a major triad in first inversion.

Edit: Unless you're talking about a suspension or something, but then it still wouldn't be a minor b13, it would just be a suspension.



It could be a major in 1st inversion, but he did mention the chord in a minor context. And it can't be melodic decoration either as this chord is lasting 2 beats long! It goes 2 beats with a 1,b3, b13(b6) and then 2 beats 1,b3,5.. if I understood him right.
#19
Quote by DatAss
And it can't be melodic decoration either as this chord is lasting 2 beats long!
Why not? Melodic decoration could last for 10 bars if you wanted it to.

That said, I guess I failed to read the whole OP. Still, if the b6 is resolving to the 5, I'd have a hard time calling it a b13.
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Last edited by food1010 at Oct 31, 2012,
#20
Hello, TS.
Quote by mdc
What you're doing here is treating it as a auxiliary note. It's just melodic decoration, and should be used just so.

You can also use it as an anticipation for another chord.

0-1-0
1-1-1
2-2-2
2-2-2
0-0-0
----

-0-1-1
-1-1-3
-2-2-2
-2-2-0
-0-0
---
#21
Quote by xonty
Just a minor 6th I think?

Nah mate the 6th is major unless otherwise specified. Chord naming always uses the major scale for reference in naming - even if the underlying triad is minor or diminished.

So it would be minor flat sixth. E.G. Amb6 will work fine or FMaj7/A (F major seventh in first inversion.

The notes of Amb6 are A C E F

the notes os Fmaj7 are F A C E So next time some pisses you off tell them their FMaj7 is pretty ugly. Or to shut their FMaj7.
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#22
Quote by J-Dawg158


But regardless it's always beneficial to come to understand not just the interaction of the notes of a chord with the tonic, but between all of the other notes as well.


Yeah I think it can really improve your ears more and know what to play over chords better. Your post was very informative by the way , thank you. And thank everyone else for your input on the chord.

Lets say you have a static G minor bar chord root on low E and you play a minor 6th interval over it (Eb)....there is no right way to hear it right? Like how would you know whether to hear it coming off the root or the 5th? Is it just the way you want to hear it?
Last edited by Unreal T at Nov 1, 2012,