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#41
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Unfortunately, my humor doesn't translate as well as I want it to through the internet all the time.

Guess so, because every third post of yours is explaining that the second was meant to be sarcasm.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#42
Quote by Ur all $h1t
No, they quite possibly just genuinely care about this issue.

Look, I’m pro-choice, but the Abortion debate is such a cluster**** because no-one can be bothered to put themselves into the shoes of the other side. They speak completely different languages and thus don’t understand one another.

Imagine for a second that you believe that human life, and all the rights that go with it, develop at conception. You believe the foetus to be a perfectly conscious human being, same as an infant. If you thought that, wouldn’t you bring up Abortion all the ****ing time? Like, wouldn’t it be all you talk about? I know if I thought that then that’d be my single issue, because it would take a huge issue to outweigh what I would then consider to be the wilful slaughter of defenceless babies.

Pro-choice people don’t see that, because we don’t consider that consciousness, or sentience, or whatever you wish to label the factor that makes humans different from other animals and thus makes it not ok to kill them, occurs at the moment of conception.
However, if you put yourself in their shoes, you realise that their statements about rape are perfectly consistent. I despise the people who are anti-abortion but think that it’s ok in cases of rape. What the **** kind of position is that to hold? If you think abortion is murder, then you can’t ever say it’s ok, no matter what the excuse is (the exception being if the mother’s life were in immediate danger, in which case it’s analogous to murder in self-defence).

Calling pro-lifers who say these things stupid is, in itself, moronic. If you understand their positions, it makes perfect sense to believe that women should carry their rapist’s child.

Where they are stupid, is in their understanding of Biology. Many of them are wilfully ignorant of the facts of embryonic development, and much of the misunderstanding might be cleared up if they opened a bio textbook, but pro-choicers would want to be careful of throwing stones from that glasshouse.


While I agree wholeheartedly with this post, I believe that willful ignorance can be considered stupidity. Ignorance is not something you can blame people for unless the only reason they are ignorant is that they refuse to seek knowledge.

This is why I consider people who say things like this and people who deny evolution and such to be not only ignorant, but also very stupid.
My signature lacks content. It is, however, blue.
#43
Quote by element4433

Also, how is this anything but misogyny?

If one believes embryos to be viable persons then one would consider their termination to be tantamount to murder. It is not misogonistic to tell women they can't kill humans, nor is it illogical to believe that this applies regardless of whether or not the woman was raped. In fact, the illogical and silly view is held by those who believe that abortion is wrong, but should be allowed in cases of rape.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#44
Quote by WCPhils

Um, people who care about the fact that there are high profile republicans who have the potential to have real, legitimate powers in the United States who have similarly disgusting, backwards, and restricting views towards women and what freedoms they should have to best protect their quality of life? (the missing member of N Sync aka Ryan btw). What the hell is wrong with having a reasonable discussion about that?


I don't understand why you seem to take pride in the fact that you ardently avoid rational discussions on any topic that has even a smidgen of intellectual depth or is an important issue. Does your mind even comprehend things other than sports, tv shows, and e-fellating? The things that seem to define your interests and how you spend your time are so considerably more inconsequential, meaningless, and just plain stupid that I really don't see how you can even conceive of having the right to cast a stone at others. Look in the goddamn mirror.

Love ya btw bb
#46
Quote by Ur all $h1t
If one believes embryos to be viable persons then one would consider their termination to be tantamount to murder. It is not misogonistic to tell women they can't kill humans, nor is it illogical to believe that this applies regardless of whether or not the woman was raped. In fact, the illogical and silly view is held by those who believe that abortion is wrong, but should be allowed in cases of rape.
You were forcibly impregnated and are now forced to raise the child that you didn't want is far more illogical.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#47
Quote by Ur all $h1t
If one believes embryos to be viable persons then one would consider their termination to be tantamount to murder. It is not misogonistic to tell women they can't kill humans, nor is it illogical to believe that this applies regardless of whether or not the woman was raped. In fact, the illogical and silly view is held by those who believe that abortion is wrong, but should be allowed in cases of rape.

It's not illogical and silly, it's just a slightly more reasonable and intelligent manner of looking at the issue. It's a more nuanced and elaborate position to take since definitions have to shift to certain extents, but it isn't impossible to hold such a view and be logically consistent.

Even in the case of abortions with women who could potentially die from having the child, you're still deciding between lives in certain circumstances (like where the life of the child is saved but the life of the mother is lost). It's just drawing the line at a different point based on differing conceptions of where the grey area is on what is and isn't reasonable. They have the same fundamental point that an embryo is a viable person and should be treated as such, just different viewpoints towards when it is reasonable to terminate based on the circumstances. These people believe in the same fundamental ideals but believe that the immense suffering and hardship that having to have and potentially raise a child conceived from a rape is cruel and undue punishment, therefore it is appropriate for an abortion due to the nature of the circumstances and the severe impact it would have on both the lives of the mother and the child. They have the same ideal towards the bulk of abortions, that they should be avoided and life should be treated with sanctity and respect, but there are certain incredibly horrible circumstances in which it is appropriate, reasonable, and just plain humane to allow abortions. Both sides have their lines in the sand as to where it is appropriate, one is just a bit more lenient and humane.

It's the manner they treat and look at women in these circumstances as nothing more as a vessel for potential life through the embryo that's misogynistic.
Last edited by Thrashtastic15 at Nov 2, 2012,
#49
Quote by Thrashtastic15
I don't understand why you seem to take pride in the fact that you ardently avoid rational discussions on any topic that has even a smidgen of intellectual depth or is an important issue. Does your mind even comprehend things other than sports, tv shows, and e-fellating? The things that seem to define your interests and how you spend your time are so considerably more inconsequential, meaningless, and just plain stupid that I really don't see how you can even conceive of having the right to cast a stone at others. Look in the goddamn mirror.


damn. words out of my mouth.
#50
Quote by Thrashtastic15
It's not illogical and silly, it's just a slightly more reasonable and intelligent manner of looking at the issue. It's a more nuanced and elaborate position to take since definitions have to shift to certain extents, but it isn't impossible to hold such a view and be logically consistent.

Even in the case of abortions with women who could potentially die from having the child, you're still deciding between lives in certain circumstances (like where the life of the child is saved but the life of the mother is lost). It's just drawing the line at a different point based on differing conceptions of where the grey area is on what is and isn't reasonable. They have the same fundamental point that an embryo is a viable person and should be treated as such, just different viewpoints towards when it is reasonable to terminate based on the circumstances. These people believe in the same fundamental ideals but believe that the immense suffering and hardship that having to have and potentially raise a child conceived from a rape is cruel and undue punishment, therefore it is appropriate for an abortion due to the nature of the circumstances and the severe impact it would have on both the lives of the mother and the child. They have the same ideal towards the bulk of abortions, that they should be avoided and life should be treated with sanctity and respect, but there are certain incredibly horrible circumstances in which it is appropriate, reasonable, and just plain humane to allow abortions. Both sides have their lines in the sand as to where it is appropriate, one is just a bit more lenient and humane.

It's the manner they treat and look at women in these circumstances as nothing more as a vessel for potential life through the embryo that's misogynistic.
I'm copying this, deleting your post, and claiming it as my own.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#51
Quote by element4433
I'm copying this, deleting your post, and claiming it as my own.

I suppose I should be flattered. I thought I did a pretty terrible job explaining myself!
#52
Quote by Hydra150
Guess so, because every third post of yours is explaining that the second was meant to be sarcasm.



Sarcasm is my main form of humor. It works well irl. Not so much on the internet.
#53
Quote by crazysam23_Atax


Sarcasm is my main form of humor. It works well irl. Not so much on the internet.

You should start and finish every post with " "



cuz that would make you so much funnier
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#54
Quote by crazysam23_Atax


Sarcasm is my main form of humor. It works well irl. Not so much on the internet.
You could probably rephrase this as "I'm just not funny."
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#55
Sam is very funny. Just not on purpose.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#56
Quote by ErikLensherr

Sam is very funny.

ftfy

( )
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#57
Quote by Ur all $h1t
If one believes embryos to be viable persons then one would consider their termination to be tantamount to murder. It is not misogonistic to tell women they can't kill humans, nor is it illogical to believe that this applies regardless of whether or not the woman was raped.

Yes it is, that's crazy. Believing that women should not have control over their reproductive lives and their bodies is misogynistic, IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW YOU ARRIVE AT THAT POSITION. Even if you believe that fetuses are persons, that still doesn't justify banning abortions.

And I assure you that you are not unique in your ability to understand opposite ideologies - everyone gets why republicans think the way they do.

In fact, the illogical and silly view is held by those who believe that abortion is wrong, but should be allowed in cases of rape.

I agree with this. It's like they don't care about women until they get raped, because then the right to choose overrides the fetus's right to life.
#58
Quote by ErikLensherr
Sam is very funny. Just not on purpose.

Meh, I'll take it.

Quote by due 07
I agree with this. It's like they don't care about women until they get raped, because then the right to choose overrides the fetus's right to life.

Why? And don't give the me talking points about how it's her body or how the fetus isn't a human.

Whether it's her right to do what she wants with her body or whether the fetus is human is largely a recycled argument. Give me a logical argument as to why I should favor the woman's right to choose over the fetus' right to life. I want to hear due's logic, not the logic of a liberal talking point.

Edit:
Oh, and set aside the issue of rape for now. Let's just focus on why I should favor a woman's right to do with her body as she wishes over a fetus' right to life.

Also, assume I have absolutely no position on this matter whatsoever.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Nov 2, 2012,
#59
If men had to deal with pregnancy, would you be wondering the same thing?
Quote by Ian_the_fox
You're not girly enough of a boy for me, and you're not man enough to take the top. So like, sorry bitch but you ain't mine! Sorry.
#60
>Give me an argument
>Don't give me an argument I don't want to hear
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#61
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Meh, I'll take it.
Why? And don't give the me talking points about how it's her body or how the fetus isn't a human.

Because a woman is allowed to do what she likes with her body when it doesn't affect another human being and a fetus isn't a human.

It's the talking point because it's so blatantly obvious.
#62
Quote by willT08
Because a woman is allowed to do what she likes with her body when it doesn't affect another human being and a fetus isn't a human.

It's the talking point because it's so blatantly obvious.

So true.
#63
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Why? And don't give the me talking points about how it's her body or how the fetus isn't a human.

Well first off, tough because it is her body and the fetus really doesn't have personhood all things considered. Just because you don't want me to tell you so doesn't mean it's not true haha.
Whether it's her right to do what she wants with her body or whether the fetus is human is largely a recycled argument. Give me a logical argument as to why I should favor the woman's right to choose over the fetus' right to life. I want to hear due's logic, not the logic of a liberal talking point.

Edit:
Oh, and set aside the issue of rape for now. Let's just focus on why I should favor a woman's right to do with her body as she wishes over a fetus' right to life.

Also, assume I have absolutely no position on this matter whatsoever.

My main reason for being pro-choice is bodily autonomy. (And my position is strengthened by the fact that fetuses aren't exactly persons.) Anyway, an easy way to understand my position is the hypothetical people-seeds analogy:

People-seeds drift about in the air like pollen, and if you open your windows, one may drift in and take root in your carpets or upholstery. You don’t want children, so you fix up your windows with fine mesh screens, the very best you can buy. As can happen, however, and on very, very rare occasions does happen, one of the screens is defective; and a seed drifts in and takes root.

Just because the seed managed to plant itself in your house doesn't mean it has the right to use your house to grow into a real person and rely upon you for years after it grows into a real person. Is it sad that the seed will never grow into a real person? Sure, of course it is. But the bigger tragedy is restricting people from, when possible, preventing the growth of unwanted things in their body house.
Last edited by due 07 at Nov 2, 2012,
#64
How does a fetus have a "right" to live? Where does it obtain these rights and how has it earned these rights?
#65
Quote by RealGuitarHero
The Tea Party hopefully is collapsing. People like this and Akin and Mourdock saying stupid stuff on live television. Michele Bachmann is most likely going to lose her seat in congress as well.

Oh gods, let it be true!
#66
Come on Sam, don't pull an Ethan Hanus on us
Quote by Ian_the_fox
You're not girly enough of a boy for me, and you're not man enough to take the top. So like, sorry bitch but you ain't mine! Sorry.
#67
Quote by Thrashtastic15
Um, people who care about the fact that there are high profile republicans who have the potential to have real, legitimate powers in the United States who have similarly disgusting, backwards, and restricting views towards women and what freedoms they should have to best protect their quality of life? (the missing member of N Sync aka Ryan btw). What the hell is wrong with having a reasonable discussion about that?


I don't understand why you seem to take pride in the fact that you ardently avoid rational discussions on any topic that has even a smidgen of intellectual depth or is an important issue. Does your mind even comprehend things other than sports, tv shows, and e-fellating? The things that seem to define your interests and how you spend your time are so considerably more inconsequential, meaningless, and just plain stupid that I really don't see how you can even conceive of having the right to cast a stone at others. Look in the goddamn mirror.

Love ya btw bb
I just wanted to post that mostly.

I do care about that stuff but I really don't come to the Pit to discuss it. Though i guess it's a bit of a dick move to post shit in the thread if I have nothing to add to the discussion. Honestly, I'll try not to do that anymore. Seriously.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#68
well I consider myself pro life[let the flaming begin ], and since I believe life begins at conception [since a fetus has a unique genetic code after fertilisation and the potential to become an adult] it's only logical that I should consider abortion wrong in all cases except maybe where the mother may be at danger because you are then considering 2 lives and not just one.
It's pretty simple, is it the fetus's fault that his/her mother was raped? rape is terrible and a rapist should always be punished heavily but fixing one wrong with another isn't the way most things work. you can't decide weather or not the child will have shitty life or not because all your doing really is simply speculating. At-least with suicide the individual makes a choice that dictates the mortality of they're own life and not of another [unless you're a terrorist ]
In the end that's what it comes down to, where you believe life starts.
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Last edited by arabmetallion at Nov 2, 2012,
#69
But it's the woman's fault she got raped/pregnant?
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#70
Quote by element4433
But it's the woman's fault she got raped/pregnant?


I didn't say that... the woman is definitely a victim
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Last edited by arabmetallion at Nov 2, 2012,
#71
Why should she have to have a baby if it's not her fault?
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#72
Quote by arabmetallion
I didn't say that... the woman is definitely a victim

And you don't find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?
#73
well, i could spin that question around and say why should the fetus be aborted if it wasn't his/her fault. Like i said before it all depends when you consider life begins
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#74
So what you're saying is that a woman should be forced to carry a baby to term and raise it for her entire life because she has been raped?

How is that not punishing the victim?
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#75
Quote by willT08
And you don't find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?


morals is another issue entirely, some people think they are fixed and some think they are relative. the abortion issue revolves primarily on the right to weather the fetus get's to live or not. It's definitely a tough and awful situation to be in.
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#76
It's just a clump of cells. It doesn't have any more "rights" than the jizz you murderously shoot into a Kleenex on a regular basis.
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I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#77
Quote by element4433
So what you're saying is that a woman should be forced to carry a baby to term and raise it for her entire life because she has been raped?

How is that not punishing the victim?


look at it this way, why are some people forced to work very hard they're entire lives just because they're parents were poor or the country they were born in while others live easy and lavish lives? is it they're fault? life is unfair, it's an unfortunate reality. financial support and adoption are also options.
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Last edited by arabmetallion at Nov 2, 2012,
#78
Quote by ErikLensherr
It's just a clump of cells. It doesn't have any more "rights" than the jizz you murderously shoot into a Kleenex on a regular basis.


sperm and eggs are released naturally and have the same genetic code as the individual releasing them, a foetus however is unique because it's a result of the fertilization of 2 sex cells and therefore has it's own genetic code. that's the key difference
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#79
Quote by arabmetallion
morals is another issue entirely, some people think they are fixed and some think they are relative. the abortion issue revolves primarily on the right to weather the fetus get's to live or not. It's definitely a tough and awful situation to be in.

Way to completely avoid the question. I'll ask it again.

Do you find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?
#80
Quote by willT08
Way to completely avoid the question. I'll ask it again.

Do you find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?


compared to the forced extermination [by the mother] of a fetus that does not yet have a say in weather or not it's allowed to live or not then my answer would have to be no
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