jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#1
ok im a player heavily influenced by thrash and industrial metal. and i have been listening to both the mesa dual rectifier and engl powerball 2 and cannot come to a decision can anyone give me some suggestions as to which amp is better or can offer me more and why? I already have a cab loaded with v30s i bought but both amps are also built with those speakers. i just don't know where to turn as i am leaving the realm of home recording with solid state and moving to all tube amps.
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Boba FRETT
Join date: Oct 2010
2,270 IQ
#2
They're both great amplifiers. It really comes down to what tones you want personally, which we cannot answer for you.
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iamcline
Paulitically Correct
Join date: Feb 2012
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#3
Are there Mesa or Engl dealers close to you so you could demo the amp(s)? I've played both and both are awesome amplifiers but they are voiced differently (to me).
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jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#4
my local dealer deals mesa but my closest engl dealer is a couple hours away.
dannyalcatraz
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#5
Sometimes the convenience of not going out of your way is worth quite a bit. OTOH, if there is something you REALLY want, mere distance should not keep you from it.

Ask yourself if the drive is worth it, or would you be just as happy with the Mesa?
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I K0nijn I
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Join date: Jul 2008
1,039 IQ
#6
They're both great amplifiers and as said, they're a bit different in voicing. I do think the ENGL is the more versatile of the two, while the Mesa of course has that sound they're famous for.

I played both extensively and in my opinion, in the cleans department it's ENGL that wins, crunch is one back for Mesa and high-gain is whatever you like more. That my opinion though. The ENGL does crunch nicely as well and I personally have grown to like the cleans on the Mesa.
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Charlie4
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#7
You know, I was always a fan of the Dual Rec. but honestly the Mark V is just so much more versatile - better cleans, variable wattage, eq etc. In my opinion it is the Mesa Boogie. Variable wattage is a very important feature imo, especially in that price range. You can drop your drive channel to 10 watts to get full saturation and on the clean channel keep it on 90 watts for max. clean headroom.

For a good idea on the Mark V sound check out YouTube vids of Petrucci as well as Lamb of God. Feardse probably does the best videos on metal amps on YouTube.

Engl's are great amps but they are not renowned for their clean tones.
If I had the cash for those amps the Mark V would be a no-brainer.
Jacques-Henri
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
55 IQ
#8
Listen to Jeff Loomis or EARLY Symphony X for an Engl's sound.

Listen to Metallica for a Mesa's Dual Rec's sound (John Petrucci uses a Mark IV/V so it's not exactly the same).

I personally love Engl's distortion (and German stuff is usually pretty damn reliable). I also don't change my tones much ; I have a metal rhythm tone, a metal lead tone and a clean tone, with very little variation...
Seanthesheep
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2010
3,602 IQ
#9
Versatility depends on which dualrecs were talking about. The 2010 multiwatt revision changed the preamp so that the cleans and mid gain tones are alot better.

The engl is super tight, saturated and compressed while rectos generally arent as compressed, a little loose (no where near what people make them out to be).

Based on the going price for a new powerball II, youre in mesa roadster proce range whih is for sure the amp id go with. Even for high gain, alot of people consider it one of the best dual recs.

Id also reccomend you check out the fireball 100 too. Its dark compressed, saturated and has more pf that mesa low end that i dontthink the powerball has. Also has great cleans

So in order heres my reccomendation:

-mesa roadster
-engl fireball 100
-mesa dual rec 2010 revision
-engl powerball ii
-an older mesa dual rec (pre 2010 and the 2 ch versions)

Any ways, regardless of what you choose youll end up with a great amp thats fairly versatile
jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#10
the dualrecs i have access to tare made in 2011 looking at the serial. most of the music i write has both very blunt rhythm(some chugging) and some very melodic parts and a lot of sustained chord rhythm playing. I'm just really wondering if any of you would suggest for heavy rhythms weather the extra compression on the engl is a better idea than having a really loose gain like mesa offers.

and thank all of you your input is really giving me more to think about.
Acϵ♠
UG Board King
Join date: Apr 2006
2,050 IQ
#11
With two high end amps like this, you really can't go wrong with either one. I would go for the Engl just because everyone and their brother buys Mesa these days, so having the Engl might make you stand out a wee bit from the rest of the metal crowd.
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Offworld92
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Join date: Nov 2009
7,563 IQ
#12
I wouldn't recommend either for thrash or industrial. That's pretty generally through and through Marshall territory.
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Offworld92
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#14
What tones exactly are you trying to get? What bands have tone that you'd like to get close to (or nail)?
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
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jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#15
theres defiantly a lot of in fluence from bands like Megadeth,Rammstein and early machine head, along with some influence from lamb of god.
Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
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#16
That is pretty all over the place.

At least check out the Marshall JVM on Youtube. I don't usually recommend it but in this scenario I think it would work well.

And if that still doesn't interest you at all, then I'd say go for a Dual Rec rather than a Powerball.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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#17
Quote by jacksonofcanada
i already know i really dislike marshals.


Why?
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jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#18
i just find them dry and thin sounding I'm not saying ill never play one but ill take quite a few amplifiers over a marshall for my own music though. its just a tone preference thing i guess.
oneblackened
Better Than You At Mixing
Join date: Oct 2007
3,303 IQ
#19
Quote by jacksonofcanada
i just find them dry and thin sounding I'm not saying ill never play one but ill take quite a few amplifiers over a marshall for my own music though. its just a tone preference thing i guess.

They are very dry, that's true. Good ones are anything but thin, though.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#20
I've been trying jcm800's and 900's and jam 410's. if i were to go to a brit amp id go to a black star i think
oneblackened
Better Than You At Mixing
Join date: Oct 2007
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#21
Try a TSL100, it might be more up your alley.

Also consider Orange amps.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
krehzeekid
Me like guitars
Join date: Dec 2009
316 IQ
#22
honestly, for the money you'd be spending, driving a couple hours to test the amps wound't be a bad call.

that being said, I went through a fairly exhaustive search for an amp until I go my Mesa a year ago (I spent a good 6 months playing anything and everything- students can't drop that kind of money easily)

I generally agree with your take on Marshalls. I think that they sound brilliant for some guitarists, but I hate my tone through them. It just sounds like a dry, and slightly thin, version of me.

When I played ENGL's, they sounded very good, but almost to the point of being too precise (of note here, I play EMG's a lot). They were incredibly versatile and powerful amps, but I sometimes felt like my playing maybe didn't come through as much- like the amp was just a little too involved in the process. I felt a little bit detached from the sound coming out of the amplifier. I will agree that the true clean tones were clearer in the ENGL's, but I think the Mesa probably sounded a little more musical. The hi-gain tones in the ENGL's I tried (I tried 5 of them!) were very tight, controlled and a bit crunchier, rather than saturated. Very nice amps, but not my cup of tea.

The Mesa's I played were right for me. I played Roadsters, Roadkings (Didn't need the EL34 switching feature- I don't like them in my power section) and a Mark V. The MV had the best cleans- but only by a bit. where it really dominated was on in-between tones: breakup, crunch, dirty cleans. It just sang. The Dual Rec based amps were very good here, but they weren't quite as amazing. The dual Recs, however, I thought had slightly better distortion. I found that they had a little more presence dialed in, and the contour of the low-end seemed to help make them sound tighter and punchier. Again, none of them were bad, but the dual rec's just seemed a hair better. I bought a Roadster a year and a half ago now and still marvel at the thing every time I turn it on.

The amp that maybe caught me the most off-guard was the Fryette Sig-x. It was amazingly good on cleans and in-between tones, and the high-gain was very nice. It was maybe a hair too crunchy for me (I prefer saturated tones), but it was a damn good amp. Definitely worth a look.

you could also look at:

Diezel- very german, very precise. amazing sounding amps. too precise for me, but they have a very serious following.
Blackstar
Soldano
Rivera
diamond
EVH- seriously. the things are truly excellent. if only they had more channels...

there are a tonne of high-end high-gain amps out there. you really can't afford not to do your research here!!!
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jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#23
deizel was one i looked at i felt there wasn't enough clarity, backstair felt like there wasn't quite enough saturation.soldano came down to price vs features,rivera not sure and diamond i have no dealers anywhere near me, evh i eliminated just due to tone.
oneblackened
Better Than You At Mixing
Join date: Oct 2007
3,303 IQ
#24
Quote by jacksonofcanada
deizel was one i looked at i felt there wasn't enough clarity, backstair felt like there wasn't quite enough saturation.soldano came down to price vs features,rivera not sure and diamond i have no dealers anywhere near me, evh i eliminated just due to tone.

I feel like the 5153 is kind of the perfect fit though.
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Focal Alpha 65 monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
7,563 IQ
#25
Quote by jacksonofcanada
deizel was one i looked at i felt there wasn't enough clarity,


Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
trashedlostfdup
diet coke fiend.
Join date: Apr 2010
13,606 IQ
#26
have you looked into a Splawn Nitro? they are very different than the rec and the engl, but when i bought mine i liked it over the rec and a Soldano avenger. they are different, but i am kind of an amp wh*** and buy them frequently. just a thought.

if it is just the engl and the dual rec, i would take an engl personally. plus dual recs are a dime a dozen and easy and cheap to find.
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omidmash
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Join date: May 2011
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#28
Quote by Offworld92
*snip*


Pahahahahahahaaha! this absolutely made my day.

Diezels are wonderful amps. I had a VH-4 but had to sell the damn thing cause it was too loud to play. It has imo THE metal tone. You can almost sense the metal molecules going in your ears.
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#29
Diezel D-moll (or was it D-Mon) is out for 1799€. I have a VH4, and must say that regarding awesome tones the D-moll does an awesome job. I don't think any one will by another VH4 for 1300€ MORE.

Really, check it out, it's friggin awesome! I cant think of an amp onder 2300€ that I would take over the D-moll. A mark V, yes, probably. A Hagen/VH4? yes, MAINLY because of the fourth channel. A Victor Smolski? Yes, probably (and also 1799€, best Engl amp out there imo!!). But anything else? Nah, this amp is amazing!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTXsxFCWM3I
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Last edited by LP_CL at Nov 7, 2012,
trashedlostfdup
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Join date: Apr 2010
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#30
Quote by jacksonofcanada
can you send a link to the splawn?


gotta get down the page a bit for the nitro. its a solid amp, great components (heyboer transformers) and they are pretty much hand made in Dallas NC. everything is customizable.

you can find a nitro for a grand if you look around.

http://splawnguitars.com/amps08.htm
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alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.
jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#31
do the intros come with a foot switch? I'm liking what I'm hearing ill need to do more between stuf but it does sound really good.
jeleopard
Jackson Fanboy!
Join date: Apr 2011
1,810 IQ
#33
You could get a Kemper and record the ENGL (it comes with a Mesa Rec on it) >.>
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jeleopard
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Join date: Apr 2011
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#35
If you say so. It's pretty kickass, though.
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Perverockstar69
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2011
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#36
Check out Royal Atlantic man, that's exactly what I do with that amp, it also works really nice with dropped C tuning.

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jacksonofcanada
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2011
115 IQ
#37
I've looked at those actually before even the dual rec i felt that either there wasn't much head room and they seem really for lack of a better word boomy on the bottom end unless I'm listening to the wrong recordings.