WholeLottaIzzy
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Join date: Apr 2011
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#1
Been looking for some new pickups for my Les Paul. Going for a Jimmy Page sound. Apparently, the BK Mule in the neck and Riff Raff in the bridge is extremely close to the real thing. This came from a guy who had Page's actual guitar in his hands, so I'm taking his word for it.

Firstly, I want to wire them to be able to split them. Do I order them with the conductor option on 4 or 2 braided?

Secondly, is it difficult to wire them to split? What else do I need to do it? I've changed pickups before, so I have basic soldering skills.
thebestjoe
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#2
You do need 4 conductor for splitting them. All you need is a push-pull pot or any kind of SPST switch. The most difficult part in my experience with wiring coil splits is getting the wires into the little contacts of the switches.

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/schematics/general/humbuckers/2_hum__2_vol__2_push_pull_tone_coilsplit__3_way_toggle.pdf

Here's a diagram right from the BKP site to wire it with coil split.
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Last edited by thebestjoe at Nov 4, 2012,
Tom 1.0
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#3
Has your current LP got the 57s in it?

I must say I was seriously disappointed with the BKPs I put in my LP.
al112987
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#6
Just because someone has had Page's guitar in his hands doesn't necessarily mean that that combo will get you the sound that you are looking for. Page's guitar today is not the same as it was when he was in Zeppelin. The bridge pickup is different, it has a Seymour Duncan in it now. If you want THAT pickup, you can call the Duncan Custom Shop, ask for Maricela and she'll wind it for you for $150.

I'm not going to lie though, after all the money and trial and error that I've been through on pickups, the closest thing that is really out there is the Duncan '59 bridge model. I've played a guitar with an unpotted Duncan '59 bridge (http://www.specialtyguitars.com/p/01-02010.html) and it really got closer than most of the $300-$400 set of pickups that I've owned. Stick the bridge model in the neck and the neck model in the bridge and you will get extremely close to the mid-late '70s Page sound with the "duck quack" middle position. If you want the early Page sound, then Duncan Antiquities will do it as well (probably better, I've owned BKPs, Wolfetones, WCRs, etc. etc. and I still think that Antiquities are the best on the market). The downsides to those are that they are single conductor unless you go custom shop. Keep in mind that Page's guitar did not have coil splits. His main sunburst les paul was 100% stock electronically during Zeppelin (the only non-stock parts were the Grover tuners and the T-Top pickup in the bridge to replace the double white PAF that failed in the early '70s).

Don't sleep on Seymour Duncan. Seeing that he and Maricela have been making pickups for Jimmy Page for decades, there are very few people in the world who have had their hands on Page's #1 moreso than those two. Not to mention, the guy has taken apart, studied and reassembled more original PAFs than probably anyone in the business. And no offense to Tim Mills, but as great as his more contemporary pickups sound, his vintage repros are not worth the price that you pay for them.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 4, 2012,
al112987
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#7
Quote by JAHellraiser

Where'd you talk to someone who got to touch the holy grails of guitars though?

It's funny that Page's guitar is the holy grail (and it is). Because it's basically a refin in pretty poor condition with an previous neck break (not to mention a shaved neck), non-original tuners and a $150 Seymour Duncan in the bridge. If it had not been the most famous les paul in history, I really wonder what kind of cash that guitar would've honestly caught on the open market.

I've also heard from a few folks that it actually sounds a little underwhelming in person. Page makes the guitar sound spectacular because he's Page (especially during the early Zeppelin days), but I've heard a few people tell me that the guitar itself is actually relatively unimpressive compared to some of the other vintage les pauls that they have played. I'm sure it's still an incredible sounding guitar in the grand scheme of things though. It's certainly a distinct sounding les paul and has it's own character, but if there was one vintage les paul in classic rock lore that I would love to play, it'd be Duane Allman's Fillmore East les paul. THAT thing has some serious monster tone.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 4, 2012,
AcousticMirror
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#8
whops posted this in the wrong place the first time.

i'd go for something from bgpickups for lower output stuff.

didn't really like any of the bareknuckles in lp style guitars.
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JAHellraiser
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#9
Quote by al112987
It's funny that Page's guitar is the holy grail (and it is). Because it's basically a refin in pretty poor condition with an previous neck break (not to mention a shaved neck), non-original tuners and a $150 Seymour Duncan in the bridge. If it had not been the most famous les paul in history, I really wonder what kind of cash that guitar would've honestly caught on the open market.

I've also heard from a few folks that it actually sounds a little underwhelming in person. Page makes the guitar sound spectacular because he's Page (especially during the early Zeppelin days), but I've heard a few people tell me that the guitar itself is actually relatively unimpressive compared to some of the other vintage les pauls that they have played. I'm sure it's still an incredible sounding guitar in the grand scheme of things though. It's certainly a distinct sounding les paul and has it's own character, but if there was one vintage les paul in classic rock lore that I would love to play, it'd be Duane Allman's Fillmore East les paul. THAT thing has some serious monster tone.

Oh I totally agree. It goes from "You ruined a classic guitar by messing with the neck!" to "This is the million dollar les paul!" all based on the owner.
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#10
Quote by AcousticMirror
whops posted this in the wrong place the first time.

i'd go for something from bgpickups for lower output stuff.

didn't really like any of the bareknuckles in lp style guitars.


Thier audio clips are all recorded with a les paul...at least the humbuckers are...
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This is maybe the worst comparison in the history of comparisons.
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#11
Quote by Controlpanel
Thier audio clips are all recorded with a les paul...at least the humbuckers are...


ya cool. that's useful when you're comparing like 10 pickups against each other.

i'm pretty sure they used the same guitar.
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Tom 1.0
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#12
Quote by JAHellraiser
What BKPs did you put in your LP?



Rebel yells.


Thy were muddy, bassy and undefined.

The 57s were clearer and more articulate IMO
WholeLottaIzzy
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#13
Tim said he had "worked extensively on Jimmy Page's guitar" himself and said the mule and riff raff were pretty much identical to Page's sound. I know it's not only the pickups that will get me his sound. I have a Marshall Vintage Modern, which is essentially a hot rodded JTM, I have a JMI Mkii Tone Bender and both a Gibson Les Paul and a Fender Telecaster. So, I should be able to get pretty damn close to his sound.
Tom 1.0
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#14
Tim is also the guy trying to sell you BKPs.

If you wanted that real PAF sound, a more vintage style builder might be a better source of inspiration?
LP_CL
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#15
Quote by Tom 1.0
Rebel yells.


Thy were muddy, bassy and undefined.

The 57s were clearer and more articulate IMO

Must have been the LP then, because the Rebel Yell sounds absolutely nothing like you described in my Huf. Absolutely not bassy or muddy, but very clear and defined.

"Closer offset coils of 43 AWG plain enamel wire retain the mid range punch of the hotter Nailbomb but produce a tighter bass response with cleaner highs and more presence. This gives the pickup an organic voice with plenty of impact, perfect for any player wanting a progressive humbucker rich in harmonic overtones and wide pick dynamics."

Not something you would describe as muddy, bassy and undefined... Besides that, they voiced the rebbel yell with the bass freqs turned down and mids and highs slightly up...
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Last edited by LP_CL at Nov 5, 2012,
AcousticMirror
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#16
i hated the rebel yells.

the bgpickups hellabucker is so great in an lp.

the marshall vintage modern is nothing like a hotrodded jtm.
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al112987
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#17
Quote by WholeLottaIzzy
Tim said he had "worked extensively on Jimmy Page's guitar" himself and said the mule and riff raff were pretty much identical to Page's sound. I know it's not only the pickups that will get me his sound. I have a Marshall Vintage Modern, which is essentially a hot rodded JTM, I have a JMI Mkii Tone Bender and both a Gibson Les Paul and a Fender Telecaster. So, I should be able to get pretty damn close to his sound.
Again... Tim also has interest in selling his own pickups. Yes, I know that Page has been known to have stopped by the BKP shop occasionally in the past few years, but I still stand by the Seymour Duncan custom shop in this situation. Maricela Juarez has been personally making Page his pickups for decades (along with just about every legend in rock lore). If you want the exact pickup that is in Page's guitar... then you're going to get any closer than what you order from her. $150 is not too much imo for that kind of product.

Also, keep in mind that the pickups that are in Page's guitars now are not the same ones that were in there during Zeppelin. So what MJ makes for Page and what Tim Mills has seen in Page's guitar are different from what was in there during the '70s. Page's sound is VERY different now compared to the '70s. He's seemed to have developed a penchent for using Orange amps and too much gain. Must be the age kicking in.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 5, 2012,
dannyalcatraz
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#18
Love the Rebel Yells though I do- I'm putting them on a guitar myself- I have to agree with Tom1.0 & al112987 about considering the source. I can't see how the BkPs would outdo the SDs in reaching the tone you seek.
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Tom 1.0
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#19
Quote by LP_CL
Must have been the LP then, because the Rebel Yell sounds absolutely nothing like you described in my Huf. Absolutely not bassy or muddy, but very clear and defined.

"Closer offset coils of 43 AWG plain enamel wire retain the mid range punch of the hotter Nailbomb but produce a tighter bass response with cleaner highs and more presence. This gives the pickup an organic voice with plenty of impact, perfect for any player wanting a progressive humbucker rich in harmonic overtones and wide pick dynamics."

Not something you would describe as muddy, bassy and undefined... Besides that, they voiced the rebbel yell with the bass freqs turned down and mids and highs slightly up...





Must have been.
dannyalcatraz
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#20
He's seemed to have developed a penchent for using Orange amps and too much gain. Must be the age kicking in.


That...maybe a touch of tinnitus.

Or maybe he's searching for a new (to him) sound.
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alhaq369
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Nico the Great
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#21
Quote by LP_CL
Must have been the LP then, because the Rebel Yell sounds absolutely nothing like you described in my Huf. Absolutely not bassy or muddy, but very clear and defined.

"Closer offset coils of 43 AWG plain enamel wire retain the mid range punch of the hotter Nailbomb but produce a tighter bass response with cleaner highs and more presence. This gives the pickup an organic voice with plenty of impact, perfect for any player wanting a progressive humbucker rich in harmonic overtones and wide pick dynamics."

Not something you would describe as muddy, bassy and undefined... Besides that, they voiced the rebbel yell with the bass freqs turned down and mids and highs slightly up...

Your huf and his LP are -completely- different guitars though man. I imagine the amps are too. That's the thing.
LP_CL
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#23
Quote by Tom 1.0


Must have been.

Sorry if it sounded like your LP is a bad instrument, that was not my intention at all. What I ment was that the LP as the instrument was made (big thick heavy body with mostly beefy necks, short scale, etc...) might not be happy with this pickup.

And yes, offcrouse the amp has a role in it too, every amp handles pickups differently. But imo nothing that can't be fixed tweaking it till your happy.

So again, sorry tom, no offence ment here.
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AcousticMirror
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#24
yes the whole point was that the rebel yells don't sound good in les pauls.

which i can say was my experience as well.
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Tom 1.0
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#25
Quote by LP_CL
Sorry if it sounded like your LP is a bad instrument, that was not my intention at all. What I ment was that the LP as the instrument was made (big thick heavy body with mostly beefy necks, short scale, etc...) might not be happy with this pickup.

And yes, offcrouse the amp has a role in it too, every amp handles pickups differently. But imo nothing that can't be fixed tweaking it till your happy.

So again, sorry tom, no offence ment here.



None taken buddy

To be fair I can see them working well in your Huf. But as it was Tim who told me they were the pickup I should go for. You can see why I am slightly jaded towards them
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rudric
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#26
Quote by al112987
Again... Tim also has interest in selling his own pickups. Yes, I know that Page has been known to have stopped by the BKP shop occasionally in the past few years, but I still stand by the Seymour Duncan custom shop in this situation. Maricela Juarez has been personally making Page his pickups for decades (along with just about every legend in rock lore). If you want the exact pickup that is in Page's guitar... then you're going to get any closer than what you order from her. $150 is not too much imo for that kind of product.


I was under the impression that Kent Armstrong was Page's guitar tech and pickup maker during the mid to late zeppelin years?
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JustRooster
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#27
I used to buy into the rave reviews about BKPs. Then I bought a set. They were lackluster.


Also, Jimmy's live tone was horrid.

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al112987
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#28
Quote by rudric
I was under the impression that Kent Armstrong was Page's guitar tech and pickup maker during the mid to late zeppelin years?
Page's guitar tech during the mid to late Zeppelin years was a fellow named Ray Martin. As far as I know, nobody made pickups for Page during the Zeppelin years. At least not for his les paul. He used a PAFs and Gibson T-Tops during Zepplein. MJ started making Page a set of pickups with a very specific set of specs during the '80s. Page's main les paul has a custom Seymour Duncan in the bridge now. I think the neck PAF is still the same one htat has been in the guitar it's entire life, but I don't really know (no one does).

I had a few conversations with MJ about the pickup set a few years ago. I was quoted $350 for a set with nickle covers. They aren't cheap, that's for sure. They also tend to be a little hush-hush about the set as she does not really delve into details about it. Apparently it was at the request of Page that they did not advertise it. They DID start selling the set publically though last year... a limited custom shop run of a pickup called the "Whole Lotta Humbucker" that was only available in the UK (wonder why ). From what I've been told, they are basically the Page spec pickups.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 5, 2012,
WholeLottaIzzy
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Join date: Apr 2011
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#31
Quote by JAHellraiser
How did you get that? How much did it cost?


I've honestly been thinking about trying to get one custom made, because they're so damn expensive.

For the love of God, if you get one, do not get it through JMI. They are so awful to deal with. I ordered it through Music Ground's website almost exactly a year ago to the day come to think of it. It was on next day delivery. I got it at the start of January. They kept telling me it had already been dispatched and will be with me tomorrow. They have VERY bad reputation so don't getbone through them. It cosy me £200. But it's an insane pedal. Built like a tank. Seriously, the case is about half an inch thick If you can get one, do. It's an identical copy to what Page used.