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#41
In Ians defense, On that tone matching video, The Mesa patch had just a little bit less balls. Just a little bit. Not much.

Great tones from an Axe fx though. If I could sell my kidneys I might grab one
#42
What you're hearing as "lack of balls" is lack of volume. I'm betting that modeled version wasn't pushed through a half-stack at the same volume levels . Add to that the original was recorded in a room with a mic... the modeled version is straight up amp>cab with possibly some other stuff dialed in. Trust me, give both the EXACT same setup (impossible), you won't notice the difference.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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#43
This thread doesn't fail as much as the "light bulb" thread. Still fail.

Loads of good advice given. I like he is upset over the suggestions. Like he knew they weren't going to be given. Come on Ian you have been here long enough... you knew what you were getting into.

It's cheap to build an iso(You don't have to wait to move into a quiet apartment). Try it first. When it fails/or doesn't meet your needs buy an AxeFX.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#44
Quote by Outside Octaves
What you're hearing as "lack of balls" is lack of volume.


how would you know that? i am not trying to be too confrontational, but it seems to me that is just a guess

Quote by Outside Octaves
I'm betting that modeled version wasn't pushed through a half-stack at the same volume levels . Add to that the original was recorded in a room with a mic... the modeled version is straight up amp>cab with possibly some other stuff dialed in.


once again, how do you know how he recorded it?

i can't tell from the video if the modeled version is run through a power amp and cab or run direct line in with cab emulation.

Quote by Outside Octaves
Trust me, give both the EXACT same setup (impossible), you won't notice the difference.


this is kinda misleading. you claim they'll sound the same with the exact same setup, but you also claim it is impossible to give them the exact same setup. wouldn't it make it moot to make that statement?

i am not trying to pick too bad, i too feel that emulation is quite viable now-a-days and i also feel plenty of good tones can be achieved with a digital software/hardware approach. I just think it can be futile focusing on emulation achieving 'exact' tone reproduction, wtf does that even mean anyway?

between the variations on different models, the tolerances of the parts used in the models, the different rooms the amps can be recorded in, etc... what exactly is 'perfect emulation'?

furthermore, i think this mindset also creates a monster in tone philosophy: that different = worse. i personally don't think different = bettor or different = worse... different = different. it should be evaluated fairly, tested for it's quality and usefulness and used where you think it could serve your purposes. i don't think it should be evaluated purely off 'does it sound exactly/perfectly like the original', cuz frankly i want to see more original and groundup design being used on amp sim software.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Nov 7, 2012,
#45
That demo Ola did was great. Keep in mind there were different guitars used between the Axe and the real amps. Not a 100% fair test, just a great representation of how close.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#46
OOOh, I missed that lol... well, there's another reason why it probably "lacked ballz" lol
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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DO NOT CLICK HERE!
#47
The solution to all your woes: move out of your apartment into a house in the middle of nowwhere with no neighbours and crank the hell out your amps
#48
I would take a Kemper over an Axe Fx, just a matter of taste...

Mesa Royal Atlantic
Orange Rocker 15
Marshall Class 5C
Emperor 4x12 Silver Bells
Yamaha THR10
PRS Swamp Ash Limited Custom 24
LTD Viper 500 with Duncans
#49
Ha, best advice yet seljer!


gum: pick pick pick... oi, you pick more than petrucci.


I don't "know"... but come on, it's pretty standard to mic tube amps... not many people would do a comparison of a tube amp to a modelled tube amp by bypassing the "power tube".... then again ... blech! Too late in the night for me to get into it. You know what I meant and what I'm after. The guy hold's onto old concepts like an old fart holds onto stink, or an old man to his vinyls for the wrong reasons.


My logic in all of this:

Go ahead OP, and don't follow advice... we're doing that same thing in telling you to go with an Digital Interface for the pc or mac. You WILL get the exact same tones once you mix it into the rest of what you're music is doing.... minus a few types of clean sounds... then again guitar rig 5's van 51 is plenty tube'y. It isn't exact, but damn if you could tell the difference in a song or piece between what it's modeled after and the software version...

All that stuff you tell us is telling us that you are just holding on to old concepts that have now been proven wrong. You're holding onto feeling and other tactile things instead of sound my friend. There's nothing like playing a good tube amp, as far as how it feels to do so. But sound-wize my friend... few things can't be modeled, but only a few. Most everything now can be modeled accurately to the original. And we are only a few stepping stones away from true clean-tube tones from modeling.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

DO NOT CLICK HERE!
Last edited by Outside Octaves at Nov 7, 2012,
#50
iso cab is your best bet.

sound proofing in any application is not cheap.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
PRS Hollowbody II / BKP Warpigs
Strandberg OS6T / BKP Aftermath
Strandberg OS7 / Lace Poopsticks
Skervesen Raptor 7FF / BKP Warpigs
Skervesen Raptor 6 NTB / BKP Juggernauts
Hapas Sludge 7 FF / Hapas Leviathan
Anderson Baritom / Motorcity Nuke BKP Sinner Anderson H2+
Warmoth Baritone / BKP Piledriver
Ibanez Rg2120x / BKP Nailbomb

Blackstar ID:Core Beam
#51
Quote by Ian_the_fox
I love how how I write 4 paragraphs explaining why I don't want a digital modeler, yet I get a shit ton of people telling me to get one anyway.

Let me say this again: THEY DO NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS TUBE AMPS. PERIOD.

So true! Agreed.
#52
Quote by Outside Octaves
gum: pick pick pick... oi, you pick more than petrucci.


I don't "know"... but come on, it's pretty standard to mic tube amps... not many people would do a comparison of a tube amp to a modelled tube amp by bypassing the "power tube".... then again ... blech! Too late in the night for me to get into it. You know what I meant and what I'm after. The guy hold's onto old concepts like an old fart holds onto stink, or an old man to his vinyls for the wrong reasons.


i was mainly saying, how do you know they ran the modeler through a power amp and cab? how do you know what power amp they used? why wouldn't you think they just ran the modeler line in with cab emulation?

i wasn't saying that they ran a line out on the real amplifiers.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Nov 7, 2012,
#53
Quote by terribleguitar
So true! Agreed.


Would you and the OP like to pick up a little cash, for gear or whatever?

I'm thinking I could go to Kemper and/or Fractal Audio and get them to put up $10,000 or so for a blind test, say 10 clips from different guitarists, the only difference being that one set is run through the actual tube amp and the other is run through their modeling gear.

You put up your 10K against theirs, if you can accurately pick out the modeled clips, you win.

If not they donate your 10k to charity.

You up for that?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#54
Just believe someone who owned both a POD HD and a tube amp. The real thing is better. It's more about the feel than the sound.

I mean, to the listener, the difference is minor, and completely unnoticeable when in mix. But it's a completely different story for the player.
Last edited by terribleguitar at Nov 7, 2012,
#55
Quote by terribleguitar
Just believe someone who owned both a POD HD and a tube amp. The real thing is better. It's more about the feel than the sound.


I believe that you believe that, but that doesn't make it so for anyone but you.

POD HD, while a good piece of gear, is neither an Axe FXII nor a Kemper...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#56
Quote by Arby911
I believe that you believe that, but that doesn't make it so for anyone but you.
POD HD, while a good piece of gear, is neither an Axe FXII nor a Kemper...

Ugh, man, with all respect, you should be tolerant to opinion different from yours. The man wants a real amp, so please give him some options instead of saying "the axefx is as good as the real thing!!!11". He seems very confident in his needs, so I don't see the point in convincing him to buy a digital modeler.
#57
Quote by terribleguitar
Ugh, man, with all respect, you should be tolerant to opinion different from yours. The man wants a real amp, so please give him some options instead of saying "the axefx is as good as the real thing!!!11". He seems very confident in his needs, so I don't see the point in convincing him to buy a digital modeler.


If somebody has more experience and thinks that TS would do better with an AXE FX, why can't he state so? It's not a new concept that people don't know what the hell they want.
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My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#59
Quote by terribleguitar
Why do you think you have more experience than him?


Where do you see that I said I was more experienced? I said Arby was.


Furthermore, it doesn't change my point either way.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#60
Just put lightbulbs in your amp.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#61
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Where do you see that I said I was more experienced? I said Arby was.
Furthermore, it doesn't change my point either way.

And why do you think Arby has more experience than TS? Only because he has an opinion you support?
#62
Quote by terribleguitar
And why do you think Arby has more experience than TS? Only because he has an opinion you support?


No actually. It's because ive been here a long time and I've seen both of them post. You know, based on my experiences?


You don't even know what opinion I support. But go ahead. Assume away. I was mearly pointing out that you're being counter productive by trying to stop other people from voicing what they know.


But whatever. Think what you like. Unlike you, I'm not going to stop you.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#64
Quote by terribleguitar
And why do you think Arby has more experience than TS? Only because he has an opinion you support?

Maybe because within the last year the TS has made a thread asking why he can't replace his tubes with lightbulbs to save money and Arby hasn't? That's a pretty good reason in my mind.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#65
Quote by tubetime86
Maybe because within the last year the TS has made a thread asking why he can't replace his tubes with lightbulbs to save money and Arby hasn't? That's a pretty good reason in my mind.

Oh
Yeah...
But still, I'll stay with my point of view
#66
Quote by terribleguitar
Oh
Yeah...
But still, I'll stay with my point of view


You need to ease up my friend, and note that I did provide Ian with useful information as per his request is addition to tendering my considered opinion.

So how about that challenge? Up for it?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#67
The point is exactly that; this is an internet forum, the entire purpose is for different points of view to be expressed. If the TS already knew everything there is to know about the topic then why'd he bother to make a thread? He doesn't have to follow anyone's advice, or even agree with it, but if he wants to make a thread then he has to accept that people will make recommendations that he doesn't agree with.

I don't mean to put him down either. He is one of the guys around here that joined fairly recently and knew very little when he joined. He's done a lot of reading, and experimenting and has learned a lot since the days when he made a ton of stupid threads like the lightbulb one... But that doesn't mean he suddenly knows all there is to know. Arby (and many others here) just simply has more experience with the equipment and a greater understanding of the technical aspects at play. That's just a fact. If he chooses to ignore those wiser influences then that's his choice, but you can't tell them what to recommend... That defeats the purpose of a recommendation.

When someone says 'I have a Marshall MG and want a new overdrive pedal' what do we say? We say 'you need a new amp.' Do they like hearing that? Of course not. Is it the correct answer? Yes. I'm not saying that's what this situation boils down to, but it just might be.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#68
Quote by tubetime86
When someone says 'I have a Marshall MG and want a new overdrive pedal' what do we say? We say 'you need a new amp.' Do they like hearing that? Of course not. Is it the correct answer? Yes. I'm not saying that's what this situation boils down to, but it just might be.

That's some insane exaggeration
#69
Quote by terribleguitar
That's some insane exaggeration


I don't know how often you're on here but that situation happens a lot.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#70
No, I mean the "DSP vs Tube Amp" subject is debatable, while "what OD pedal for a Marshall MG" is not!
#71
Quote by terribleguitar
No, I mean the "DSP vs Tube Amp" subject is debatable, while "what OD pedal for a Marshall MG" is not!


Explain why that's not debatable? I'm pretty sure everything in music is debatable considering music/tone/whatever is 100 percent subjective.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#72
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Explain why that's not debatable? I'm pretty sure everything in music is debatable considering music/tone/whatever is 100 percent subjective.

Marshall MG's badness is NOT subjective.
#73
Quote by terribleguitar
No, I mean the "DSP vs Tube Amp" subject is debatable, while "what OD pedal for a Marshall MG" is not!

Try telling the rest of the civilized world that.

There will come a day (hypothetically) that DSPs can do everything a tube amp can do... When that day comes (and for all I know it's here; I haven't played an AxeFX or Kemper) people like the TS that say 'no DSP will ever feel like a tube amp' will be just as wrong as the guy that thinks an OD will turn his MG into a gig-worthy amp...

If you know the answers don't make a thread, if you don't know the answers then make a thread and read through all the answers to find the best solution for you. It's really that simple. Don't like an answer? Fine, on to the next one.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#74
Quote by terribleguitar
Marshall MG's badness is NOT subjective.


In your opinion. If I can get one cheap and used they sound great for a practice amp.


See where I'm going with this?
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#75
Quote by terribleguitar
Marshall MG's badness is NOT subjective.

Static X gigs them.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#77
Quote by terribleguitar
Is that some kind of a joke?!


Are you really that close minded?
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#79
Zakk Wylde endorses them but doesn't actually use them... Wayne Static seriously gigs those amps... So what were you saying about your opinion not being subjective?

How many records have you sold? Sold out gigs have you played? My guess is the answer to both is 'fewer than Wayne Static' so from that standpoint it'd be easy for me to say 'Wayne Static is right and you are wrong...'
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#80
Quote by tubetime86
Zakk Wylde endorses them but doesn't actually use them... Wayne Static seriously gigs those amps... So what were you saying about your opinion not being subjective?

How many records have you sold? Sold out gigs have you played? My guess is the answer to both is 'fewer than Wayne Static' so from that standpoint it'd be easy for me to say 'Wayne Static is right and you are wrong...'


He uses MGs as a warm up amp. You see them in the BLS DVD
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.