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#81
Well I meant he doesn't use them on stage. If no one did then Zakk would be the pinnacle of pro MG use... But someone does; Wayne Static. His tone is garbage and very reminiscent of his last name... But he is significantly more successful than me so apparently he's doing something right.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#82
Quote by tubetime86
Well I meant he doesn't use them on stage. If no one did then Zakk would be the pinnacle of pro MG use... But someone does; Wayne Static. His tone is garbage and very reminiscent of his last name... But he is significantly more successful than me so apparently he's doing something right.


What did he do right? The place and the time?
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#83
Quote by terribleguitar
Is that some kind of a joke?!


i know i am a corksniffer, and i have run into people who just LOVE LOVE LOVE their frontman or spider. whatever floats their boat. i am actually a little jealous of them cuz their 300 dollar amp makes them happier than all my vintage and boutique amps do.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#84
Quote by trashedlostfdup
ianthefox- i find this quite funny as that in every wattage thread you say "i have a 100 watt amp and my dad has a 50 watt amp" and they sound good quiet. or something along the lines.

*Snip*
Well to us, at low volumes they they sound great. To my 40yo hypothetical neighbor who hates all music but Christmas carols and works night shift therefore sleeps all day, it doesn't. In fact, it sounds good at NO volume, in other words in operant.

Even at non-loud settings, the sound of tube amps slices through walls and floors like razors. I don't know the science, but I just know it works that way. If you don't believe me, set a Fender Frontman and a Deluxe Reverb next to each other at roughly equal volume, link via A/B selector, and play guitar from the other room. Which do you hear more of?

And that's just clean. Try a Randall RG100es vs. a JCM800, or Ampeg VH140c vs. 5150 (paired based on voicing similarities); it's worse with distorted tones.


As for building an ISO cab, I think it would be more worth it to just build a pre-made one. I'm not good with woodwork, and by the time I've moved out I won't have anyone to help with the construction.

The Randall one I'm liking a bit, particularly because the square inches on the inside is close, if not more of that of a standard Mesa 2x12. Only disadvantage is the lack of overtones from a second speaker working with the first.


Quote by Outside Octaves
Some people... you just can't get to accept something. Try getting a 90 year old to listen to a CD... most just are hopelessly addicted to their vinyls. Now try to get the same person to listen to a .flac or .wav file from a pc... LMAO.
Could it be because it's a fact that vinyl records actually do reproduce sound better than digital technology? Try listening to it on a decent system, not some $10 Altec speakers you bought from Walmart. And no, Bose isn't a decent system either.

Why do you think all albums that are recognized for their production are albums that are recorded on R2R tapes? Those are even more sonically accurate than vinyl.


Quote by Outside Octaves
I support you, OP, but I do have to say that if you can tell a difference between your beloved tube amps and modern, higher end, software based amps and effects... especially on a recording that you play back on something other than your amp's speakers.... and even more-so if you have it in a mix.... then you sir are only deluding yourself.
Again, it's because I'm listening to my music on a decent system, not $10 Walmart speakers. I can hear it, and if you can't, well it sucks to be tone deaf now, doesn't it?


Quote by Outside Octaves
Don't get me wrong... there is something about a tube-amp. They do have a more lively tone to them. You just can't get that sparkle from digital amps on the cleans. BUT, for EVERYTHING else, from the mildest amounts of drive onto full-boar double-drop G (LMAO) UBER-metal-fire-breathing-Balrog of Morgoth distortion/overdrive... well the better modelers like Guitar Rig 5 and what not will match any tube amp out there... period.... especially for the latter... I dare you to show us a quality recording that shows side by side how I and the others are wrong... oh so wrong. This is your only option for truly "silent" recording outside a soundproofed room.
The first part I agree with.

Bolded is bullshit. Especially since you mentioned Guitar Rig.

For one, I don't play generic Djenty brootz-core crap. Actually, I don't know what exactly it is that I play. I have my own style of playing which I'd describe as classic progressive mixed with thrash metal, and some modern, all in one style. It's kinda my own style. There are many, MANY passages in mall of my songs where I change my picking intensity, and blend a clean tone over top to make a magical sound for arpeggiated chords. And to add, I don't even use that much drive. Always, it's very rolled back, I like to capture the "voice" of the guitar with my tone.

And don't even get me started on leads. Seriously, with digital modelers you can forget about dynamics. I'm starting to develop my lead style similar to this. Only a tube amp does the job perfectly for that style. I should also mention that many of my songs contain long passages where the lead guitar is the focus.


Modeling software doesn't give a fuck what you throw at them. How hard you pick, how soft you pick, what pickups, what wood, etc. It's all just gonna spit out the same staticy instantaneous distorted notes, no matter what the guitar.

Think I'm bullshitting? This was recorded with Guitar Rig, according to the uploader. Check the guitar he's using.

My dad's Epiphone hollowbody sounds exactly the same as my Charvel, which sounds exactly the same as my Strat, when I play through the Poulin plugins (very similar to guitar rig). Hell, the middle and bridge pickups on my Strat sound identical, and the bridge is a humbucker!

Maybe it doesn't matter if you're just playing nothing but "CHUGACHUGADJENTDJENTDONGDONGDJENTBREAKDOWN" shit, but that's not what I'm playing at all.


Now other decent modelers I've played, including various POD's and Elevenrack, are slightly better with the touch-sensitivity, but still do not bring out the qualities in each of my guitars. With tubes, they do.

Of course, if you're deaf as shit or own $10 Walmart speakers, it doesn't matter. But I hear the difference.

I feel like I've said this all before. Hmm, where?.... Oh, that's right:


Quote by Myself
They sound close, sure, but they still don't act or feel like tube amps. There's still something lacking with them in a mix that only tube amps have. They're not organic, and they don't react as well to your playing or pickups.
Shows how much you actually read my first post.


Quote by Outside Octaves
But as for not so silent, but not full-bore volume recording:

Yea, so far you're on the right track. Though obviously the smaller the "box" (read: room) the worse the sound, then again same goes for the other direction. Make sure to figure out what kinda sound you're going for in your recording future... too big is bad and too small is bad (with exceptions of course). You don't want to record something that shouldn't have much or any reverb in a cathedral, nore should you record something that should have reverb or what not in a box just a bit larger than the amp+mic lol.
That's why I'm considering the Randall Iso, as it's close to equal square length on the inside as a standard V30 Mesa cab, if that even matters at all.


Quote by Outside Octaves
My logic in all of this:

Go ahead OP, and don't follow advice... we're doing that same thing in telling you to go with an Digital Interface for the pc or mac. You WILL get the exact same tones once you mix it into the rest of what you're music is doing.... minus a few types of clean sounds... then again guitar rig 5's van 51 is plenty tube'y. It isn't exact, but damn if you could tell the difference in a song or piece between what it's modeled after and the software version...
I'm not going to follow the Digital Modeler advice because it DOESN'T SOLVE MY PROBLEM. It sends me in the path I don't want. Just because you can't hear the differences between tube and digital, doesn't mean my preferences are wrong.

And Guitar Rig doesn't sound "just like" a tube amp. It sounds like fizzy staticy fake crap. I've played with Poulin for hours with various settings and impulses and no matter how tube-like it got, I couldn't get rid of that distinctive, sterile, processed, un-dynamic sound.

Even recordings with Pod Farm that sound almost tube like have that distinctive digital sound to them.
#85
Quote by Arby911
Would you and the OP like to pick up a little cash, for gear or whatever?

I'm thinking I could go to Kemper and/or Fractal Audio and get them to put up $10,000 or so for a blind test, say 10 clips from different guitarists, the only difference being that one set is run through the actual tube amp and the other is run through their modeling gear.

You put up your 10K against theirs, if you can accurately pick out the modeled clips, you win.

If not they donate your 10k to charity.

You up for that?
It all depends on what their playing.


If it's all nonstop noisy tremelo picked death metal, OTT processed shitty metalcore or deathcore, or some Djenty crap, I probably wouldn't notice.

If the guitar is the center of attention, dynamics in playing are being used, as well as varying lead techniques, I'd most likely notice a difference.


Now the Kemper seems like it could fool somebody based on the clips I've heard (much more accurate than the Axe), but if I were to end up in the situation of living in a shitty apartment next to intolerant neighbors, do you think I'd be economically able to purchase a Kemper? Absolutely not.


Now what just recently did occur to me is that I'm also a vocalist, and record vocals. If I move into a shitty apartment, I'm going to need a vocal booth or some strong isolation to isolate my loud singing (and especially my harsh vocals) anyway.

What do you all think would work better for isolating an amp? Building or purchasing a decent Isolation booth, and sticking my cab in there? Or buying/building a set of isolation cabinets?

Either options would cost the same, if not less than either of the top modelers (Axe II or Kemper).
Last edited by Ian_the_fox at Nov 7, 2012,
#86
I hate to rain on anyones parade here.... Keep in mind what we search for in tone on our guitars might get mostly lost in the band situation. Add a lower volume guitar on the total mix and no one would be the wiser.

Remembers Olas video with the MG? Perfect example.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#87
Quote by tubetime86

When someone says 'I have a Marshall MG and want a new overdrive pedal' what do we say? We say 'you need a new amp.' Do they like hearing that? Of course not. Is it the correct answer? Yes. I'm not saying that's what this situation boils down to, but it just might be.


I didn't choose the advice life, the advice life chose me.


Ian, what I think it boils down to is that yes, we all know that a fullbore tube amp completely dominates a fullbore modeler.

But at the volumes you're restricted to, a modeler will sound better than a tube amp running at volumes that don't even get the tubes warm. As was stated a while ago, iso cabs are not 100% silent, which you claim to need.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

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#88
Quote by R45VT
I hate to rain on anyones parade here.... Keep in mind what we search for in tone on our guitars might get mostly lost in the band situation. Add a lower volume guitar on the total mix and no one would be the wiser.

Remembers Olas video with the MG? Perfect example.
Regarding Ola's video, again: If listened to on cheap laptop speakers, you can't hear the difference.

When I play it on my room stereo I hear all the difference. It sounds similar to my Fender Stage 100 when I tried recording it.


Quote by Offworld92
Ian, what I think it boils down to is that yes, we all know that a fullbore tube amp completely dominates a fullbore modeler.

But at the volumes you're restricted to, a modeler will sound better than a tube amp running at volumes that don't even get the tubes warm. As was stated a while ago, iso cabs are not 100% silent, which you claim to need.
100% quiet was really an exaggeration. At least enough to where the direct sound from the speaker won't penetrate paper thin walls.

I should also note that my amp sounds the best (with V30's at least) recorded when the master volume is around 3, sometimes 4. I'm not cranking it to the max.
#89
You can't tell the difference between different guitars when running through a modeler, but claim to be able to hear the difference between a tube amp and an axe fx?

I guess you're using some kind of 10 dollar walmart speaker setup. Ian, you need to get a decent speaker system before you get anything else. And no, Bose is not decent. You need to really get some good stuff.

That's my advice.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZfk5sz82A

I couldn't tell the difference. The actual SLO100 sounds a bit brighter, but that could be easily adjusted on the Kemper.

Honestly, I don't know exactly how profiling amps work, but I refuse to believe that they can't sound 100% exactly like a tube amplifier. Maybe the lower end modelers don't, and maybe the high end ones don't either. But I think it's a bit naive to say digital/solid-state will never sound like tubes.

I think there might be some bias in regards to tubes. I understand that they often sound better, but digital technology is fairly new (right?). It seems to me that tube-purists who shut out all solid-state/digital amplifiers are hipsters obsessed with their vintage tubes. I'm really interested in whether they would be able to pass a legitimate, unbiased test.

I forget where I was going with this... but yeah. With the right technology, tubes will become obsolete. Except for the aforementioned hipsters who will continue purchasing them.

Maybe "tubes" are an idealized concept that people have been pressured into believing? Maybe not?

Nothing against hipsters, but these are my thoughts.
#91
Where is MartrixClaw?
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#92
Quote by R45VT
Where is MartrixClaw?


punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#93
Uh oh. Cats on amps in this thread as well...
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#94
10 dollar system? LMAO!

Behringer BG412s 4x12 top slant and the v-ampire LX1200H for the (apparent) preamp'ed aux channel... which runs the sound coming from my Line 6 and guitar rig 5. I've compared fender tube amps, and other such amps to this thing using various models (some even on the v-ampire itself)... The only thing this thing can't do is push the volume the same way a tube amp can because it's solid state... and a bit cheap at that.

This is not some 10 dollar walmart system. True it's no botique, or "quality" tube amp... but it can reproduce most any sound one wants with very little in the way of that old world digital crap... even though it's digital (the new age of digital modeling is just ... jaw droppingly real!)


I just want you and others like you to realize that digital amp, cab, and fx modeling has finally achieved the point at which you can't tell much if any difference at all with the mid-range systems... the higher end stuff is touted as not having any difference. I myself via the videos can't tell, even when played through my 4x12 or the 75 watt 5.1 I have set up .


10 dollar walmart speakers... ROFLMAO!!!!


As far as not bringing out the quality of an instrument? hehe... My friend, that example you showed was someone that doesn't know what they are doing. A decent setup, and with some tweaking... you can get it to bring out the best of a guitar. Just like a tube amp... if you don't know what you're doing a tube amp can do just what you were saying about the modelers. It can suck the life out of it. it's all in knowing how to set it all up. Treat the modeler like a real world situation and tweak accordingly, and do the other part of modeling setups and make sure your front end iss taken care of with proper preamping and also make sure the output is taken care of properly and vwala, you got warm rich tones that can make proper use of a guitar. I've played a few guitars through my current setup, and each guitar was vastly different because of... not my modeling setup (amps , fx , etc)... but because each instrument is different.

I play around with an exotic style, sort of, with bluesy under-pinnings. And I'm just a novice. I'm sure with someone who REALLY knows how to setup an amp and fx, I could sound JUST like stevie ray if I had a good strat and this system! Or I could sound like BB, or Satch, Vai... well not JUST like as I don't have their fingers or musicianship but you get my point.

I've had VERY tube-y tones! But I tend to go for a more smooth, rounded feel and sound.

And all with this "cheaper" system...
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

┌∩┐(◣_◢┌∩┐

DO NOT CLICK HERE!
Last edited by Outside Octaves at Nov 7, 2012,
#95
Quote by R45VT
Uh oh. Cats on amps in this thread as well...


it's about getting to that point. this has slowly taken a turn into a 'you should have the same opinion as me' thread and i don't see much more to be gained. so a bunch of posters are gonna get butt sore cuz TS doesn't wanna use modeling.

like, i use modeling and it works great for me on the road when i don't wanna lug an amp around, but does that mean the TS should feel the same way? should people just harass him til he gets a kemper?

opinions are getting crazier and more aggressive, plus the BS is almost ankle deep now. people are just making arguments that don't even make logical sense anymore.

punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Nov 7, 2012,
#96
I did find the Kemper profile a bit fuzzier, but either way that probably is the closest tone match I've heard from a digital device. At least in warmth; for the length I watched the guy he didn't seem to change his picking dynamics that much. I'd have to play one in person to judge.


Either way, for way under $2000 I could get a used iso booth and mic up what I have now, which I'd most likely need if I were to be recording vocals in the same situation. Question is, exactly how reductive are they in terms of sound (dB)?
#97
I just think with a full band mix and not a single guitar track the differences will be very slight.

If he can't afford an expensive unit he believes is crap than so be it. ISO box it is.

Simple.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#98
Quote by Outside Octaves
10 dollar system? LMAO!

Behringer BG412s 4x12 top slant and the v-ampire LX1200H for the (apparent) preamp'ed aux channel... which runs the sound coming from my Line 6 and guitar rig 5. I've compared fender tube amps, and other such amps to this thing using various models (some even on the v-ampire itself)... The only thing this thing can't do is push the volume the same way a tube amp can because it's solid state... and a bit cheap at that.

This is not some 10 dollar walmart system. True it's no botique, or "quality" tube amp... but it can reproduce most any sound one wants with very little in the way of that old world digital crap... even though it's digital (the new age of digital modeling is just ... jaw droppingly real!)


I just want you and others like you to realize that digital amp, cab, and fx modeling has finally achieved the point at which you can't tell much if any difference at all with the mid-range systems... the higher end stuff is touted as not having any difference. I myself via the videos can't tell, even when played through my 4x12 or the 75 watt 5.1 I have set up .
Behringer...



Yeah, you're super deaf.


Quote by R45VT
I just think with a full band mix and not a single guitar track the differences will be very slight.

If he can't afford an expensive unit he believes is crap than so be it. ISO box it is.

Simple.
When did I say the Kemper or Axe's were crap? They just don't do what I want them do do.

I wouldn't buy a Marshall JCM800, as that wouldn't give me the tones I want. Do you think I believe that's crap?
Last edited by Ian_the_fox at Nov 7, 2012,
#99
I think everyone is missing the obvious: don't record in a shitty paper thin wall apartment, dummy.

If you're that bothered about getting your tone so perfect that you can tell the difference between the best modelling amp and the actual thing, surely its worth renting a studio or even using somebodies garage.

#101
Quote by R45VT
I just think with a full band mix and not a single guitar track the differences will be very slight.

If he can't afford an expensive unit he believes is crap than so be it. ISO box it is.

Simple.


the rivera claims that their iso cab can reduce it about -30 dB externally.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/Oct/Rivera_Silent_Sister_Isolation_Cabinet_Review.aspx

i have seen other claims of ~30 dB of reduction. this should make it ~1/8 (or .125) as loud as original. that is actually pretty good
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#102
Maybe wrap the iso cab in pillows and blankets.
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#103
Easy answer, discover the sound ordinance laws/regs for the area you're moving in, discover the sound ordinance rules for the apartment complex, and comply with them. If there is no sound ordinance before 10 pm then crank the hell out of it and damn the neighbors.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#104
Quote by ihartfood
there was a legit thread about lightbulbs in amps?

how'd it turn out?
It burned out pretty quick actually.

Quote by Wesbanez
I think everyone is missing the obvious: don't record in a shitty paper thin wall apartment, dummy.

If you're that bothered about getting your tone so perfect that you can tell the difference between the best modelling amp and the actual thing, surely its worth renting a studio or even using somebodies garage.
This whole thread is based on a hypothetical situation that that can't happen. If it could, well lucky future-me. I wouldn't need to worry about any of this crap.

Quote by gumbilicious
the rivera claims that their iso cab can reduce it about -30 dB externally.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/Oct/Rivera_Silent_Sister_Isolation_Cabinet_Review.aspx

i have seen other claims of ~30 dB of reduction. this should make it ~1/8 (or .125) as loud as original. that is actually pretty good
Damn, 30 decibles is significant.

Only the dimensions of that cab seem smaller than the Randall I mentioned earlier, and therefore might sound a bit boxier.
Last edited by Ian_the_fox at Nov 7, 2012,
#106
Quote by Outside Octaves
... Well, whatever you believe my friend.

Iso box it is then. Hipsters... oi.


He's not a hipster, he's a furry. BIG difference.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#107
Quote by Ian_the_fox
I did find the Kemper profile a bit fuzzier, but either way that probably is the closest tone match I've heard from a digital device. At least in warmth; for the length I watched the guy he didn't seem to change his picking dynamics that much. I'd have to play one in person to judge.


Either way, for way under $2000 I could get a used iso booth and mic up what I have now, which I'd most likely need if I were to be recording vocals in the same situation. Question is, exactly how reductive are they in terms of sound (dB)?


The only honest answer to that is...it depends...

Materials, design etc etc...

A midrange prefab Isolation booth will run you around $3-4,000, but you can probably build it to higher specifications for $1,000 or less. I haven't a clue what one would bring used.

Db reduction is also dependent on frequency, but you can reasonably expect a 36-40db drop.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#108
Quote by Outside Octaves
... Well, whatever you believe my friend.

Iso box it is then. Hipsters... oi.


damn, i was called a hipster when i got my tiny terror, when i got a blackface twin, when i got my acoustic 270R SS amp, when i started using digital modeling, when i started riding a bike, when i started rolling my own cigs...

i guess there is no escape being a hipster, ever. if was into labeling other people i would probably call you a... nah i don't do that.

Quote by Ian_the_fox
Damn, 30 decibles is significant.

Only the dimensions of that cab seem smaller than the Randall I mentioned earlier, and therefore might sound a bit boxier.


yeah, i'd def go with whatever one you prefer, i was just looking around to get manufacturer claims.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Nov 7, 2012,
#109
Quote by gumbilicious
damn, i was called a hipster when i got my tiny terror, when i got a blackface twin, when i got my acoustic 270R SS amp, when i started using digital modeling, when i started riding a bike, when i started rolling my own cigs...

i guess there is no escape being a hipster, ever. if was into labeling other people i would probably call you a... nah i don't do that.


Cuz you're a hipster...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#110
In all fairness rolling your own cigs is pretty hipster.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#111
^you know what makes it worse, i don't like smoking other cigs now too. but rolling my own has heavily tempered my habit, and i feel i smoke better tobacco now too.

Quote by Arby911
Cuz you're a hipster...


i stopped fighting it. w/e

i actually had to ask one of my younger friends what a hipster was after about the 3rd time i was called that.

i thought it was one of those beatnik style people from the 50's reciting abstract poetry over bongos.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Nov 7, 2012,
#112
Quote by tubetime86
In all fairness rolling your own cigs is pretty hipster.


Ugh, I hate when hipsters give you shit for smoking brand name cigarettes.


"Man it's like, sooooo much cheaper and healthier to roll your own. I don't know how you can smoke that garbage"


Because I'm lazy you damn Hipster trash.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#113
Quote by Ian_the_fox
Modeling software doesn't give a fuck what you throw at them. How hard you pick, how soft you pick, what pickups, what wood, etc. It's all just gonna spit out the same staticy instantaneous distorted notes, no matter what the guitar.

I'm sorry, but you are flat out wrong.

While this may be true for some modelers, the problem here isn't the modeler's fault, it's your fault for not knowing how to use them. You wouldn't expect an electric car to work the same as a gas powered car, so stop trying to use it the same. Modelers have all the EQs, compressors, etc. in them for a reason, it's not their fault that you don't know how to work them. I'm willing to bet your complete distaste of modelers is based off the fact that you're using the shitty stock cabinet impulses in whatever you've used.

That being said - Some modelers will never be the same as the real deal, but when you're paying like 1/60th the price of all the amps in it... do you really expect it to?

As far as dynamics go - You've already stated you haven't tried an Axe-FX or a Kemper, so completely generalizing modelers as a whole is completely unfair. Both of the top end modelers react just as well to picking dynamics, volume pots, guitar pickups and woods, as any tube amp out there, some models even better than the real thing.

You say that modelers suck for low/mid gain, whereas I would argue the complete opposite. While high gain modeling from the Axe-FX always sounded like digital modeling to me, the low and mid gain tones were so convincing that, if I were playing those styles, I would never think about touching a real tube amp again.

The biggest problem people like you have with modeling isn't that it sounds bad (because, let's face it, if the tone is properly tweaked, you can have your preferences, but if you tell me that the tone is bad, you're just talking out your ass), it's that people are expecting it to sound exactly like the real thing. That's just silly. You could put two JCM800s side by side next to each other, and neither one will sound exactly the same, same goes with every other amp and guitar ever made. Once you get past the fact that it might not sound precisely like what your real amp sounds like, and take it for what it is, a great sounding unit that takes a lot characteristics from those amps, then you'll truly appreciate it. If you want a certain amp's tone, then buy the ****ing amp and stop complaining about your $200 amp software that can't reproduce the sound.

Your idea of using a iso cab is without a doubt, going to give you worse results than a good modeler would. End of story.

People think iso cabs are the end-all-be-all for silent recording, when in fact, they produce a tiny, boxy sound, that wouldn't be any better than micing the amp at super low volumes.

Honestly, I find it funny that you don't want to invest in digital amp modeling, but you're fine with investing a ton of money in a digital speaker simulator/IR loader (Two-Notes Torpedo), which is a "modeler" for the most important part in a modeling amp's signal chain (the part that actually gives it the dynamics of a real amp), the power amp/cabinet response. If that's what you want to do, just run a cable from the preamp out/effects send of your amp, into your interface and load an IR on it in your DAW... There, just saved you $1000.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#114
Vinyl doesn't sound as good as digital.

Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#115
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Ugh, I hate when hipsters give you shit for smoking brand name cigarettes.
"Man it's like, sooooo much cheaper and healthier to roll your own. I don't know how you can smoke that garbage"


i roll my own, but don't give other people shit. if anything, i get this backlash from smokers that are used to hipster giving them shit.

way i see it is you got your brand and i got mine. i will offer people a smoke to see if they would like it or not and most people take me up on an occasional rolled smoke, but i won't go around telling people what they need to do.

i will admit, if you are thinking about quitting or cutting down, then rolling your own (and never pre-rolling) will make it harder for you to smoke as much. that is the main reason i started. i don't think that would work for everyone, but it works well with my psychology. i only smoke about 5 a day on average.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Nov 7, 2012,
#116
Quote by gumbilicious
i roll my own, but don't give other people shit. if anything, i get this backlash from smokers that are used to hipster giving them shit.

way i see it is you got your brand and i got mine.

i will admit, if you are thinking about quitting or cutting down, then rolling your own (and never pre-rolling) will make it harder for you to smoke as much. that is the main reason i started. i don't think that would work for everyone, but it works well with my psychology. i only smoke about 5 a day on average.


I wasn't referring to you. It happens a lot around here.


I quit like 2 years ago thanks. Cold turkey.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#117
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I wasn't referring to you. It happens a lot around here.


oh, i actually caught that. just wanted you to know we aren't all pricks.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#118
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
He's not a hipster, he's a furry. BIG difference.
It's the pointy fox ears, I'll tell ya...


Quote by arby911
The only honest answer to that is...it depends...

Materials, design etc etc...

A midrange prefab Isolation booth will run you around $3-4,000, but you can probably build it to higher specifications for $1,000 or less. I haven't a clue what one would bring used.

Db reduction is also dependent on frequency, but you can reasonably expect a 36-40db drop.
Looking at this, 40db seems fair enough. Considering the difference apart from each other is TV level to subway level.

I've seen some on eBay for around $1000-$1500, though I'm not sure how quality they are.
#119
Quote by gumbilicious
oh, i actually caught that. just wanted you to know we aren't all pricks.


That's reassuring


Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#120
Wait. Audiophiles live at home now? I thought this was reserved for 30+ers who have landed their first well paying job but don't know how to spend it on hookers and blow