Page 3 of 5
#81
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
And the whole racism thing. Even Arab jews are discriminated against.


It's funny how Israel, a supposedly jewish state, actually discriminates. It really takes the whole "haven't learned anything from history" to a new level.

- An Arab


You have no idea, when Sudanese refugees came asking for help, Israelis marched the streets to send them back to Sudan to their deaths, and it reminded me of the whole Kristallnacht thing.... Talk about forgetting history....

Sometimes i want to destroy all stupid people.......
I Have An Avant Garde Fetish....
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Im in no way an amateur. I masturbate in public all the time.
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I can get an erection just by looking at a plastic cup, or a river.
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Don't worry, rape will always find a back way in
#82
Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Of course. That's much more important than the religious aspect of it, but it's hard to deny that religion does influence the feelings of hatred from both sides.


How so?

Like I said, they've lived together peacefully for ages. There have been Jews in Jerusalem almost nonstop since they originally settled there thousands of years ago. The only time there ever weren't Jews there was when the Christian Crusaders kicked them out. If religion is so fundamental to it all, why did they live together for so long without these kind of problems?
#83
Quote by TunerAddict
How so?

Like I said, they've lived together peacefully for ages. There have been Jews in Jerusalem almost nonstop since they originally settled there thousands of years ago. The only time there ever weren't Jews there was when the Christian Crusaders kicked them out. If religion is so fundamental to it all, why did they live together for so long without these kind of problems?


This isn't about their shared history that goes back thousands of years. That has nothing to do with what I said before about how the Palestinians aren't allowed access to Jerusalem. It makes sense that being denied access to your holy city would piss you off, ya know?
Quote by L2112Lif
I put a ton of my capital into SW Airlines... The next day, THE NEXT DAY these nutters fly into the WTC. What the hell? Apparently no one wanted to fly anymore, and I was like "What gives? God damnit Osama, let me win a fuggin' game!"
#85
Quote by Dreadnought
So what, are they at war yet


It's still developing, it most likely will turn into a full war though, i don't want that again
I Have An Avant Garde Fetish....
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#86
Nah man, it wouldn't be in anyone's favor at this point for troop deployment. This isn't only about Palestine and Israel at this point.

Quote by adamgur96
You have no idea, when Sudanese refugees came asking for help, Israelis marched the streets to send them back to Sudan to their deaths, and it reminded me of the whole Kristallnacht thing.... Talk about forgetting history....

Sometimes i want to destroy all stupid people.......

Wow, that's really sad. I can never understand people who are against giving refugees the refuge they need, or against helping the homeless or against giving away free food or anything in that regard.


I'm all too familiar with that feeling, man.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Nov 14, 2012,
#87
Quote by Dreadnought
So what, are they at war yet


Yes, but both sides are reluctantly holding back from launching the hash tags due to their shared fear of the dire consequences.
Quote by L2112Lif
I put a ton of my capital into SW Airlines... The next day, THE NEXT DAY these nutters fly into the WTC. What the hell? Apparently no one wanted to fly anymore, and I was like "What gives? God damnit Osama, let me win a fuggin' game!"
#88
Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
This isn't about their shared history that goes back thousands of years. That has nothing to do with what I said before about how the Palestinians aren't allowed access to Jerusalem. It makes sense that being denied access to your holy city would piss you off, ya know?


Of course, but you gotta think that its counterproductive to concede more territory to a group which has been unceasingly hostile. It's not like Hamas won't want to **** up Israel anymore once they get Jerusalem.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#89
Hamas stated it will carry out a revenge plan on Israel by sending in suicide bombers and declaring a state of open war.


Nukes vs. Suicide bombers? Israel must be cringing in fear.

Whenever I hear suicide bomber, it always takes me back to what Patton said about the Japanese that "No sorry son of bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. The object is to make the other side, die for his country."
Quote by Pagan_Poetry
Sadly this is Ultimate-guitar, not Simple-guitar. We can't help you.


#90
Quote by JustRooster
Don't be redundant and act like a twerp on a website full of jerks.

To be honest, calling everyone on a website 'jerks' while telling someone on said website not to 'act like a twerp' is a bit hypocritical.

Quote by mystical_1
Nukes vs. Suicide bombers? Israel must be cringing in fear.


You do know that the Palestinian territories are right next door to Israel don't you?

How could anyone possibly justify using weapons that are likely to wipe out large numbers of their own population on an enemy?
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Nov 15, 2012,
#91
Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Of course. That's much more important than the religious aspect of it, but it's hard to deny that religion does influence the feelings of hatred from both sides.


It's more about American/European imperialism than Judaism v. Islam. There were Jews living in Palestine before Zionism, and they got on fine with the Muslims and actually resented the whole immigration thing. I think the religious divide is a kind of rhetorical thing.
#92
Quote by SlackerBabbath
You do know that the Palestinian territories are right next door to Israel don't you?

How could anyone possibly justify using weapons that are likely to wipe out large numbers of their own population on an enemy?


The West Bank is 2,263 square miles and the Gaza Strip is 139 square miles.


Palestine is roughly 10,000 square miles.


They could use a smaller one, perfectly placed, and get away with it. But even non-nuke ICBm's would put their determination to the test.
Quote by Pagan_Poetry
Sadly this is Ultimate-guitar, not Simple-guitar. We can't help you.


#93
Well, for one thing, I think starting another war is ****ing stupid and terrible, but on the other hand, people are being killed by the daily, unprovoked, rocket strikes on civilian targets in Israel.

****ing Hamas. I really want the Palestinians to have an independent country, but Hamas leadership means war, death, and human rights being trampled.
#94
Quote by jimmyled
Well, for one thing, I think starting another war is ****ing stupid and terrible, but on the other hand, people are being killed by the daily, unprovoked, rocket strikes on civilian targets in Israel.

****ing Hamas. I really want the Palestinians to have an independent country, but Hamas leadership means war, death, and human rights being trampled.


I'm aware this argument has happened a million times on here. But it's pretty unfair to say that the rocket strikes are 'unprovoked'. What about the whole Gaza strip thing? I don't like the fact that Hamas fire rockets at civilians, but it's common knowledge that the IDF kills far more civilians than the IDF. Whatever way you look at it (and I like to think that I have a pretty fair perspective, coming from a country that is also plagued by territorial dispute and religious/ethnic hatred) the Israeli government has to accept a major part of the 'blame' for what has happened in Palestine. If the Israeli government started treating Palestinians as human beings, and acknowledged that they have an equal right to live in the region as any American/European Jew, you might actually get somewhere. The reason we have peace in Northern Ireland right now is because the British entered into a genuine dialogue with Republican terrorists, granted concessions, and stopped any (perceived) human rights abuses. Doing the same thing is Israel's responsibility if it wants to portray itself as the 'civilised' side of the conflict.
#95
Quote by Pagan-Pie
I'm aware this argument has happened a million times on here. But it's pretty unfair to say that the rocket strikes are 'unprovoked'. What about the whole Gaza strip thing? I don't like the fact that Hamas fire rockets at civilians, but it's common knowledge that the IDF kills far more civilians than the IDF. Whatever way you look at it (and I like to think that I have a pretty fair perspective, coming from a country that is also plagued by territorial dispute and religious/ethnic hatred) the Israeli government has to accept a major part of the 'blame' for what has happened in Palestine. If the Israeli government started treating Palestinians as human beings, and acknowledged that they have an equal right to live in the region as any American/European Jew, you might actually get somewhere. The reason we have peace in Northern Ireland right now is because the British entered into a genuine dialogue with Republican terrorists, granted concessions, and stopped any (perceived) human rights abuses. Doing the same thing is Israel's responsibility if it wants to portray itself as the 'civilised' side of the conflict.


The current problems are because of recent heavy rocket attacks on southern Israel, they are unprovoked, as far as i know, nothing significant has changed before it started. Even though the IDF does wind up with more blood on its hands, its mostly because they have inferior defence resources yet pick a fight with a country of Israel's military strength, not because its more malicious than Hamas. It would be pretty naive to expect Israel to not take retaliatory actions.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#96
This might sound like a stupid q - but why have the Americans stated support for Israel in this event and the UK Foreign Secretary just said that Hamas "bears principal responsibility"?

In this specific instance, Israel killed their leader. I don't quite understand the support?

I understand the American-Israeli relationship somewhat, but I don't see how they can stand behind them with this particular event. And I don't see how Hamas bears principal responsibility... for allowing their leader to be bombed?
#98
Quote by a_7_x
This might sound like a stupid q - but why have the Americans stated support for Israel in this event and the UK Foreign Secretary just said that Hamas "bears principal responsibility"?

In this specific instance, Israel killed their leader. I don't quite understand the support?

I understand the American-Israeli relationship somewhat, but I don't see how they can stand behind them with this particular event. And I don't see how Hamas bears principal responsibility... for allowing their leader to be bombed?


Hamas decides to fire missiles at southern Israel, apparently over 130 of them in the last 3 days, Israel says "**** that" and goes for some targeted strikes, killing an important Hamas commander and a few other people.

Hamas threw the first punch.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#99
Okay, cheers. Never knew about that cause it wasn't in any news coverage before Jaabari's death.
#100
to be quite frank, very few media outlets even care enough to report attacks against Israel. It may seem like a bit of a grand statement but it seems that there is a slight bias against them. I heard it from a lot of people but thought they were bullshitting for the most part. After google searching articles about the recent attacks, not many mainstream outlets covered it, the vast majority of results were Israeli sources or Jewish news outlets. If Israel attacks others for whatever reason, everyone will be on that shit.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#101
ITT: Everyone is ****ing bananas.
BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

I SAY, I SAY, BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

They say when they finally attack, all the impostors will peel themselves. In order to tell if you have been assimilated, check for a zipper somewhere near your pelvis.


#102
Quote by TOMMYB22
Hamas decides to fire missiles at southern Israel, apparently over 130 of them in the last 3 days, Israel says "**** that" and goes for some targeted strikes, killing an important Hamas commander and a few other people.

Hamas threw the first punch.

First off, you do realize no more than 70 or so years ago, everything called 'Israel' was actually Palestine, right? You do know it was taken by force? Ah, never mind that. How about this; it wasn't 130 rockets, it was 13. That's what the IDF said yesterday (although, never give too much credit to the person with the bigger guns, I should know that better than anyone here). No? Okay, how about the fact that during Hamas' rocket attack, "8 Israelis were injured", and during Israel's rocket attack (at least to the point where I kept my attention) 11 died, including 2 babies not even a year old, and many more injured.

So you've got a bunch of hilariously armed groups with moronic ideologies versus a government with a complex defense system, aerial capability, tanks that can hit the eye of a needle from miles away, and highly trained soldiers. Oh, and there were still lots of civilian casualties. So it's no question that they're deliberately targeting civilians instead of acting like a responsible government and holding back.


Just so we're clear, I don't approve of what Hamas has done at all, but every Palestinian has grown up under Israeli occupation and I guarantee that every one of them has lost a family member to IDF strikes. Are you really surprised that they don't like them?
#103
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
So you've got a bunch of hilariously armed groups with moronic ideologies versus a government with a complex defense system, aerial capability, tanks that can hit the eye of a needle from miles away, and highly trained soldiers. Oh, and there were still lots of civilian casualties. So it's no question that they're deliberately targeting civilians instead of acting like a responsible government and holding back.


I agree with all you said, but you do realise that most of Israel's soldiers are just teenagers, right?
Finished school and sent to the army.

Obviously, the soldiers in the field are highly trained, but most of them are very young people.
I Have An Avant Garde Fetish....
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#104
Quote by adamgur96
I agree with all you said, but you do realise that most of Israel's soldiers are just teenagers, right?
Finished school and sent to the army.

Yeah, like every country in the middle east, you're forced into army service at 18. I think that's ridiculous no matter what country they're in. That's one more reason for me to get out of the middle east before I'm 18
#105
Quote by adamgur96
I agree with all you said, but you do realise that most of Israel's soldiers are just teenagers, right?
Finished school and sent to the army.

Obviously, the soldiers in the field are highly trained, but most of them are very young people.



This. And considering the fact that i was originally supposed to enlist and start basic training yesterday (in a base waaay over to the south) i feel really overwhelmed by this. Luckily for me my enlistment date was set back to January two weeks ago.

Stll, this is just a mess. Hope to see it figured out and finished soon.
Tis a sig
#106
Yeah, right now Egypt (bless our little hearts) and European officials are trying to mediate a ceasefire.

By the way, there were lots of conflicting reports about this, but did Egypt withdraw their ambassador or did he stay?
#107
^ Idk, need to check on that....

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Yeah, like every country in the middle east, you're forced into army service at 18. I think that's ridiculous no matter what country they're in. That's one more reason for me to get out of the middle east before I'm 18


I have a medical case as an excuse not to join the army, instead of leaving, how about you just say you're autistic?

Quote by Firebirdz
This. And considering the fact that i was originally supposed to enlist and start basic training yesterday (in a base waaay over to the south) i feel really overwhelmed by this. Luckily for me my enlistment date was set back to January two weeks ago.

Stll, this is just a mess. Hope to see it figured out and finished soon.


Hope all is well and you won't get in this mess

.אנחנו נעבור את זה אחי, בלי יותר מדי נזק אני מקווה
I Have An Avant Garde Fetish....
Quote by Gantz92
Im in no way an amateur. I masturbate in public all the time.
Quote by Nelsean
I can get an erection just by looking at a plastic cup, or a river.
Quote by Obsceneairwaves
Don't worry, rape will always find a back way in
#108
Quote by adamgur96
I have a medical case as an excuse not to join the army, instead of leaving, how about you just say you're autistic?

"You..are..a...strangerr..." like that?

Actually, I've been told that in Egypt, if you're the only male child in the family, you could get out of army service on the basis that if you die, there's no one to provide for your mother.

lol

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20339546#TWEET365025

I love how one brigade has a twitter page.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Nov 15, 2012,
#109
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
First off, you do realize no more than 70 or so years ago, everything called 'Israel' was actually Palestine, right? You do know it was taken by force? Ah, never mind that. How about this; it wasn't 130 rockets, it was 13. That's what the IDF said yesterday (although, never give too much credit to the person with the bigger guns, I should know that better than anyone here). No? Okay, how about the fact that during Hamas' rocket attack, "8 Israelis were injured", and during Israel's rocket attack (at least to the point where I kept my attention) 11 died, including 2 babies not even a year old, and many more injured.

So you've got a bunch of hilariously armed groups with moronic ideologies versus a government with a complex defense system, aerial capability, tanks that can hit the eye of a needle from miles away, and highly trained soldiers. Oh, and there were still lots of civilian casualties. So it's no question that they're deliberately targeting civilians instead of acting like a responsible government and holding back.


Just so we're clear, I don't approve of what Hamas has done at all, but every Palestinian has grown up under Israeli occupation and I guarantee that every one of them has lost a family member to IDF strikes. Are you really surprised that they don't like them?


Are you serious? I'm well aware of the history of the region. How many actually died isn't the main issue, its the fact that these attacks happened in the first place. It shouldn't be Israel's fault that they were able to protect their own citizens while Hamas weren't. It's stupid for Hamas to attack and then play the victim when Israel retaliates.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/11/15/israel-gaza-hamas-netanyahu.html - this even says its above 180 according to the Israeli military.

Why should Israel hold back and allow an enemy group to put over a million of its citizens under persistent peril?

Irrelevant. I'm not here to debate the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict, that is far more complex.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#110
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Yeah, right now Egypt (bless our little hearts) and European officials are trying to mediate a ceasefire.

By the way, there were lots of conflicting reports about this, but did Egypt withdraw their ambassador or did he stay?


Pretty sure he's gone by now, maybe even yesterday/


Quote by adamgur96
Hope all is well and you won't get in this mess

.אנחנו נעבור את זה אחי, בלי יותר מדי נזק אני מקווה


I hope we get hrough this fast, too.

Luckily for me I live around the country's center, so i'm out of missle range for now.
Tis a sig
#111
Quote by TOMMYB22
Are you serious? I'm well aware of the history of the region. How many actually died isn't the main issue, its the fact that these attacks happened in the first place. It shouldn't be Israel's fault that they were able to protect their own citizens while Hamas weren't. It's stupid for Hamas to attack and then play the victim when Israel retaliates.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/11/15/israel-gaza-hamas-netanyahu.html - this even says its above 180 according to the Israeli military.

Why should Israel hold back and allow an enemy group to put over a million of its citizens under persistent peril?

Irrelevant. I'm not here to debate the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict, that is far more complex.

Yes. Are you? I know it's not, but blaming this all on Hamas is ridiculous. Israel is perfectly capable of stopping any of Hamas's rockets.

Did you seriously just tell me that it's not Israel's fault if Hamas couldn't protect "their own citizens"? Okay, this is over. I'm not talking about this with you. That's a ridiculous stance to take, if not for the fact that Hamas isn't even an army (because, y'know, the US and Israel consistently deny Palestine to be a country), and that they don't have popularity in Palestine like they once did, but for the fact that you're completely excusing civilian deaths over it.

Why should they hold back? Um, why can't they just target the militants instead of civilians? They're the real problem, but no, they're punishing civilians over what a bunch of twats with rockets out of the 70s did.
#112
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Yes. Are you? I know it's not, but blaming this all on Hamas is ridiculous. Israel is perfectly capable of stopping any of Hamas's rockets.

Did you seriously just tell me that it's not Israel's fault if Hamas couldn't protect "their own citizens"? Okay, this is over. I'm not talking about this with you. That's a ridiculous stance to take, if not for the fact that Hamas isn't even an army (because, y'know, the US and Israel consistently deny Palestine to be a country), and that they don't have popularity in Palestine like they once did, but for the fact that you're completely excusing civilian deaths over it.

Why should they hold back? Um, why can't they just target the militants instead of civilians? They're the real problem, but no, they're punishing civilians over what a bunch of twats with rockets out of the 70s did.


Yeah, thought i made that quite clear. The entire conflict? No, of course not. This particular situation? Yes, easily. How are they capable of stopping all the rockets? Do you expect them to just stay in bomb shelters until Hamas gets bored?

I'm not excusing their deaths, i'm saying that you're understating the effect Hamas' hostilities on the lives of Israelis simply because they haven't died as much. It's like punching Floyd Mayweather's child and calling him the aggressor after he fucks your shit up.

They did target the militants, hence the Hamas leader that died with only a few other casualties, instead of raining down their (significantly stronger) missiles upon the Gaza strip like Hamas has been doing.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
Last edited by TOMMYB22 at Nov 15, 2012,
#113
Quote by TOMMYB22
Yeah, thought i made that quite clear. The entire conflict? No, of course not. This particular situation? Yes, easily. How are they capable of stopping all the rockets? Do you expect them to just stay in bomb shelters until Hamas gets bored?

I'm not excusing their deaths, i'm saying that you're understating the effect Hamas' hostilities on the lives of Israelis simply because they haven't died as much. It's like punching Floyd Mayweather's child and calling him the aggressor after he fucks your shit up.

They did target the militants, hence the Hamas leader that died with only a few other casualties, instead of raining down their (significantly stronger) missiles upon the Gaza strip like Hamas has been doing.


Yeah, the point is that governments of massively rich and powerful states aren't supposed to 'retaliate' against a bunch of desperate psychos waging a futile 'war' against them. It will not work. Short of butchering the entire native population of your country, violence will never, ever solve the Israel/Palestine problem. Empathy is the key. If Egypt conquered Israel and blockaded you and your people into the Gaza Strip, what would you do? Condemning the 'other side' for violence when your own side is equally violent is ridiculous.
Last edited by Pagan-Pie at Nov 15, 2012,
#114
Good, it's time to just nuke the middle east and be done with it once and for all.
#115
Quote by WaterGod
Good, it's time to just nuke the middle east and be done with it once and for all.


The whole problem is, to a large degree, the fault of America. Particularly the Truman administration. So we should nuke you instead
#116
Quote by WaterGod
Good, it's time to just nuke the middle east and be done with it once and for all.


Not even a chuckle.

Try again, this time, funnier or smarter.
I Have An Avant Garde Fetish....
Quote by Gantz92
Im in no way an amateur. I masturbate in public all the time.
Quote by Nelsean
I can get an erection just by looking at a plastic cup, or a river.
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Don't worry, rape will always find a back way in
#117
Quote by TOMMYB22
Yeah, thought i made that quite clear. The entire conflict? No, of course not. This particular situation? Yes, easily.

I'm not excusing their deaths, i'm saying that you're understating the effect Hamas' hostilities on the lives of Israelis simply because they haven't died as much. It's like punching Floyd Mayweather's child and calling him the aggressor after he fucks your shit up.

They did target the militants, hence the Hamas leader that died with only a few other casualties, instead of raining down their (significantly stronger) missiles upon the Gaza strip like Hamas has been doing.

I thought I did too, but then you asked, so I just needed to check. Fair enough. Not fair at all.

No, I'm not understating anything. It's very simple: Hamas did an irredeemably stupid thing, and Israel tried to match that by making it rain rockets on civilians.

But they did rain down their (significantly stronger) missiles upon the Gaza strip. It's not like they just targeted the guy's car then moved on. A government should carry more restraint than a bunch of freaking armed groups.

Again, just so we're clear: Any side with a gun is ****ing stupid, but Israel clearly has the upper hand, and so need to use restraint to stop any further escalation. Hamas is neither a gov't nor a representative of Palestinians, so why punish the entire gaza strip for what they've done?
#118
Quote by Pagan-Pie
The whole problem is, to a large degree, the fault of America. Particularly the Truman administration. So we should nuke you instead



You do realize that the entire area has been a huge war zone for a much longer time than that right?
Knowledge is power
#119
Quote by Ninja#117
You do realize that the entire area has been a huge war zone for a much longer time than that right?


Yes. I have a degree in history. Truman and the Americans were, however, to a large degree responsible for the present cluster****.
#120
So apparently, an alarm detecting a missle was set off somewhere around the city i live in. Also a confirmed missle (not completely keen on the details) in a nearby city.
Not adding much to the thread, just checking in.
Tis a sig