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#122
Yep. I live in a city called Holon, and the alarm here is more of a rumor. Still, a rocket hitting in Rishon Letzion means Holon could be next. Shit's getting too real.
Tis a sig
#123
1.Get all the world leaders together from every single nation and country as well as every person on the UN(probably the same people) in a large room with no media coverage.

2. Stroll in with 5 pounds of the nastiest stickiest buds the planet has ever produced. Im talking hightimes lookin shit.

3. Set fire to the weed in a large bowl and let the smoke fill the room leaving a few vents open so no one suffocates.

4. Let room marinate for 60-120 minutes.

5.. Enjoy an end to this retarded ass shit.
Knowledge is power
#124
Quote by Firebirdz
Yep. I live in a city called Holon, and the alarm here is more of a rumor. Still, a rocket hitting in Rishon Letzion means Holon could be next. Shit's getting too real.

Dude, don't worry about it at all. Once you've had dozens of that stuff hitting your area you kind of realize how easy it is to avoid it. If it'd make you feel better, just sit in the northern part of your house.
#125
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Dude, don't worry about it at all. Once you've had dozens of that stuff hitting your area you kind of realize how easy it is to avoid it. If it'd make you feel better, just sit in the northern part of your house.



It's not really the fear of getting hit, nor is it being afraid of someone i know getting a hit. It's more like an anxious feeling of waiting to hear what's next. Thanks for the advice, though
Tis a sig
#126
Quote by jimmyled
****ing Hamas. I really want the Palestinians to have an independent country, but Hamas leadership means war, death, and human rights being trampled.

You could've given them their own country during the many decades before Hamas rose to power.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#127
God dammit Israel. You're like that friend you had in high school who you go out drinking with and have great conversations with, but every time you try hitting on girls, he says the most retarded things and turns into the human **** block then you have to pretend you don't know him.

adamgur, I hold you personally responsible.

EDIT: Wait, he hasn't gotten blown up yet, has he?
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#128
Quote by Pagan-Pie
Yeah, the point is that governments of massively rich and powerful states aren't supposed to 'retaliate' against a bunch of desperate psychos waging a futile 'war' against them. It will not work. Short of butchering the entire native population of your country, violence will never, ever solve the Israel/Palestine problem. Empathy is the key. If Egypt conquered Israel and blockaded you and your people into the Gaza Strip, what would you do? Condemning the 'other side' for violence when your own side is equally violent is ridiculous.


It perplexes me when people act like its as simple as 'being the bigger man' in a case like this. A government that represents its people just can't get away with not doing anything, regardless of how big the enemy is. Empathy is a vague term and it will not stop the recent attacks and considering the deep religious and racial division in the middle east, i doubt the greater conflict will be solved by simply asking nicely.

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
I thought I did too, but then you asked, so I just needed to check. Fair enough. Not fair at all.

No, I'm not understating anything. It's very simple: Hamas did an irredeemably stupid thing, and Israel tried to match that by making it rain rockets on civilians.

But they did rain down their (significantly stronger) missiles upon the Gaza strip. It's not like they just targeted the guy's car then moved on. A government should carry more restraint than a bunch of freaking armed groups.

Again, just so we're clear: Any side with a gun is ****ing stupid, but Israel clearly has the upper hand, and so need to use restraint to stop any further escalation. Hamas is neither a gov't nor a representative of Palestinians, so why punish the entire gaza strip for what they've done?


How is it not fair? Like i said, i'm not here to discuss the conflict as a whole but rather the recent attacks and why is it unfair to cast blame on the group that let off the first missile strikes?

You bring up a baby that died as if they personally and maliciously assassinated that one Arab child but then essentially sweep the dangers facing Israelis under the rug. Do many Israelis have to die before they earn that level of sympathy?

Israel's strikes were targeted btw, if they used the same tactics as Hamas, many more Palestinians would have died, especially considering how densely populated the Gaza strip is. They show plenty restraint, do you think the Palestinian territories would be much more than rubble if they didn't. Israel has quite a powerful military.

Why would one show restraint when its own people are being attacked? Why would a government protect other people and throw a million of their own citizens under the bus. Hamas were elected by the Palestinians and as of a few years ago, 62% of Palestinians hold them in a positive regard, meaning that they do represent them.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#129
Quote by ErikLensherr
You could've given them their own country during the many decades before Hamas rose to power.

I don't know much about the conflict but didn't Israel offer them a state before and Palestine turned it down? Thought I read the that somewhere..
#130
Quote by uziyourillusion
I don't know much about the conflict but didn't Israel offer them a state before and Palestine turned it down? Thought I read the that somewhere..



Not sure if that's what you mean, but initially, in November 47, the UN's plan was to create two states- a jewish one and an arab one. The jews accepted and arabs rejected it and thus the Israeli was of independence came to be.
Tis a sig
#131
Quote by TOMMYB22
How is it not fair? Like i said, i'm not here to discuss the conflict as a whole but rather the recent attacks and why is it unfair to cast blame on the group that let off the first missile strikes?


Well there's your problem. It's impossible to discuss recent developments even halfway intelligently without taking account of the broader conflict.

Why would one show restraint when its own people are being attacked?


Because excessive use of force and violence only make them more enemies.

I'm curious as to how many Israelis have actually been harmed by these recent rocket attacks. During that conflict a couple years ago where they killed hundreds of Palestinian civilians, in turned to be in response to something like 10 dead Israelis over the course of the previous decade. The vast majority of those thousands of homemade "rockets" landed harmlessly in the desert.

Quote by uziurillusion
I don't know much about the conflict but didn't Israel offer them a state before and Palestine turned it down? Thought I read the that somewhere..


If you mean the Oslo Accords from the 90s, neither of them offered statehood afaik.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#133
Adam and Firebirdz, what are happening with schools and work? Are people staying home or are they going about as usual for the most part?
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#134
Rocket hit Gush Dan (or almost hit) in Tel Aviv.

This is the point where I start to get a little bit edgy.
BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

I SAY, I SAY, BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

They say when they finally attack, all the impostors will peel themselves. In order to tell if you have been assimilated, check for a zipper somewhere near your pelvis.


#135
Quote by ErikLensherr
Well there's your problem. It's impossible to discuss recent developments even halfway intelligently without taking account of the broader conflict.


Because excessive use of force and violence only make them more enemies.

I'm curious as to how many Israelis have actually been harmed by these recent rocket attacks. During that conflict a couple years ago where they killed hundreds of Palestinian civilians, in turned to be in response to something like 10 dead Israelis over the course of the previous decade. The vast majority of those thousands of homemade "rockets" landed harmlessly in the desert.


I disagree. In this situation Hamas are the primary aggressors. Whatever recent issue they may have been having, they were the ones who resorted to violence first, theres simply no way you can spin it otherwise.

They haven't exactly been dropping nukes, so what would be an appropriate level of force in response to the attacks? You can't say none either.

The truth is, not nearly as many, not because Hamas are less aggressive but because Israel has the infrastructure and the people instinctively rush to bomb shelters and such. That however should not diminish the effect is has on them, stopping them from going to school and such, essentially stopping them from living their lives. There isn't too much of the country that doesn't seem like a desert, and even then, there are people who live there.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#136
Quote by TOMMYB22

How is it not fair? Like i said, i'm not here to discuss the conflict as a whole but rather the recent attacks and why is it unfair to cast blame on the group that let off the first missile strikes?

You bring up a baby that died as if they personally and maliciously assassinated that one Arab child but then essentially sweep the dangers facing Israelis under the rug. Do many Israelis have to die before they earn that level of sympathy?

Israel's strikes were targeted btw, if they used the same tactics as Hamas, many more Palestinians would have died, especially considering how densely populated the Gaza strip is. They show plenty restraint, do you think the Palestinian territories would be much more than rubble if they didn't. Israel has quite a powerful military.

Why would one show restraint when its own people are being attacked? Why would a government protect other people and throw a million of their own citizens under the bus. Hamas were elected by the Palestinians and as of a few years ago, 62% of Palestinians hold them in a positive regard, meaning that they do represent them.

I pretty much just side with whoever I feel will take a beating in the discussion, as both sides are to blame here. But fair enough, I agree on this point. I just think the escalation was mainly due to Israel's heavy handed reaction, which shouldn't have happened.


By the way, Hamas holds less than 18% as of recently. IIRC, Le Pen scored more in France.


EDIT: Oh god. Israeli gov't calling 30 thousand troops out of the reserve, and there's been a series of airstrikes on Gaza just now. Why? Cause a missile fell in the sea next to Tel Aviv. Are you seriously telling me that this isn't too exaggerated a reaction? This conflict could've, and should've stopped at them intercepting the missiles yesterday.

EDIT2: Yeah, friends in the Gaza are confirming the airstrikes. Said it was the loudest thing they've ever heard. Jesus...
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Nov 15, 2012,
#137
Quote by ali.guitarkid7

EDIT: Oh god. Israeli gov't calling 30 thousand troops out of the reserve, and there's been a series of airstrikes on Gaza just now. Why? Cause a missile fell in the sea next to Tel Aviv. Are you seriously telling me that this isn't too exaggerated a reaction? This conflict could've, and should've stopped at them intercepting the missiles yesterday.


There goes one of my teachers. Probably.

Also I don't believe it fell into the sea, and there were two rockets.
BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

I SAY, I SAY, BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

They say when they finally attack, all the impostors will peel themselves. In order to tell if you have been assimilated, check for a zipper somewhere near your pelvis.


#138
Quote by JustRooster
Adam and Firebirdz, what are happening with schools and work? Are people staying home or are they going about as usual for the most part?



School is canceled and so is most work locations (AFAIK) in 40km range around the strip for now. outside taht range, it's mostly safer and so there aren't special instructions. For now.

Edit:

Quote by TheTee56
There goes one of my teachers. Probably.

Also I don't believe it fell into the sea, and there were two rockets.


Two rockets fell in Tel Aviv and there were no casualties nor seriously injured.
Tis a sig
Last edited by Firebirdz at Nov 15, 2012,
#140
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Two? I heard there was only one, and that it fell close to port Yaffa in the water.



The sound of rockets crashing reached us in Holon and made alarms go off, was almost frightening. But that was in the area around Jaffa and Tel Aviv.
Tis a sig
#141
No causualties and life is continuing as normal there, so now I believe they fell into the sea.
BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

I SAY, I SAY, BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

They say when they finally attack, all the impostors will peel themselves. In order to tell if you have been assimilated, check for a zipper somewhere near your pelvis.


#142
Ah alright. Just remember that it's always louder than it really is. Sometimes I'd see one go off and it'd be in the next district, but my ears ring regardless.
#143
Yeah, the freakout period is pretty much over. It wasn't even that serious to begin with. Mostly joking about explosion and bomb songs with a couple of people.
Tis a sig
#144
Worth noting that, for the most part, Hamas wasn't launching the rockets. They aren't some all-powerful group able to restrain all the little militant outfits in Gaza. In fact, they've been desperately trying to end rocket attacks to avoid a repeat of Cast Lead. The man in charge of stopping them? Got blown up this week by Israel.

To talk about Hamas as if it's an actor with the same capability and accountability as the Israeli government is just idiotic.
#145
Quote by gabcd86
Worth noting that, for the most part, Hamas wasn't launching the rockets. They aren't some all-powerful group able to restrain all the little militant outfits in Gaza. In fact, they've been desperately trying to end rocket attacks to avoid a repeat of Cast Lead. The man in charge of stopping them? Got blown up this week by Israel.

To talk about Hamas as if it's an actor with the same capability and accountability as the Israeli government is just idiotic.


Ok.
BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

I SAY, I SAY, BEWARE THE BANANA ARMY.

They say when they finally attack, all the impostors will peel themselves. In order to tell if you have been assimilated, check for a zipper somewhere near your pelvis.


#146
Quote by TOMMYB22
I disagree. In this situation Hamas are the primary aggressors. Whatever recent issue they may have been having, they were the ones who resorted to violence first, theres simply no way you can spin it otherwise.

What if the people launching rockets now see it as retaliation for all the civilians Israel killed in '08-'09? You're deciding who's "first" by picking an arbitrary point in time and saying whoever does anything from this point onwards is the aggressor.Both sides have been trading punches for many many years.

They haven't exactly been dropping nukes, so what would be an appropriate level of force in response to the attacks? You can't say none either.

Force isn't the right response, period. You're never going to solve the problem by killing more Palestinians, unless you plan to kill them all (yay irony).
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#147
Quote by ErikLensherr
Force isn't the right response, period. You're never going to solve the problem by killing more Palestinians, unless you plan to kill them all (yay irony).

Sometimes it is. Of course in a conflict that's lasted this long, it isn't, but there are certain circumstance that would call for it.
#148
Oh yeah, I'm just talking about this. I ain't no hippie pacifist, man.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#150
Yeah, I saw that. It's terrible.


So Hollande just started talks with the Israeli PM to stop escalation. Meanwhile, air raids around the Palestinian PM's house.
#151
If you are going to take a no violent force stance you have to hold the palestinians to a similar standard. They aren't saints.
#152
There's a huge rally going on in one of my buildings. A ton of Palestinian students are yelling and screaming with flags waving. I have a feeling that they're going to get more than kicked out.
#153
Quote by Thrashtastic15
If you are going to take a no violent force stance you have to hold the palestinians to a similar standard. They aren't saints.

It's not like an elected palestinian official wanted the attack to happen. Hamas has pretty much become an umbrella term for "someone with a gun in the gaza strip".
#154
Quote by Thrashtastic15
If you are going to take a no violent force stance you have to hold the palestinians to a similar standard. They aren't saints.


Not sure you do, really. It's absurd to hold an internationally recognised, highly developed, wealthy, democratic state to the same standards as an almost-democratic but pretty much just got there by a coup little occupied patch of land run by an armed group that is considered a terrorist organisation by most of the world.

If Israel wanted Palestine to be held as the same standard, maybe it shouldn't have blocked all the statehood bids?
#155
Quote by TOMMYB22
It perplexes me when people act like its as simple as 'being the bigger man' in a case like this. A government that represents its people just can't get away with not doing anything, regardless of how big the enemy is. Empathy is a vague term and it will not stop the recent attacks and considering the deep religious and racial division in the middle east, i doubt the greater conflict will be solved by simply asking nicely.


Because using violence to suppress groups like Hamas is futile, as I said, unless Israel exterminates the entire Palestinian population. The British government and people of Northern Ireland, Britain and the Republic withstood decades of terrorism without the government firing goddamn rockets into civilian areas. It is ridiculous.

And empathy isn't a vague term at all. It is simply approaching a problem from the other party's point of view. I think that if both sides (though the onus is on the Israelis) engaged in some empathetic contemplation certain problems could be overcome through, you know, having civilised discussions.
#156
Why don't you all just become generals/diplomats. Just jump right into it
My God, it's full of stars!
#157
Quote by Dreadnought
Why don't you all just become generals/diplomats. Just jump right into it


Wow, we went a whole four pages without a snide Dreadnought comment. Must be a record.
#158
Quote by gabcd86
Not sure you do, really. It's absurd to hold an internationally recognised, highly developed, wealthy, democratic state to the same standards as an almost-democratic but pretty much just got there by a coup little occupied patch of land run by an armed group that is considered a terrorist organisation by most of the world.

If Israel wanted Palestine to be held as the same standard, maybe it shouldn't have blocked all the statehood bids?

It's absurd to preach that Israel should stop all usage of force and to demonize them for their usage of force without mentioning and accepting the negative role and usage of force from the Palestinians. You can't dress up as a pacifist when it's fuck Israel time while also supporting militaristic action from Palestinians or even at the very least accepting it.

I'm not pro-Israel. But if you're going to condone Israel for violence you're going to have to condone Palestine as well if you're going to take a stance such as Erik's or have any sort of legitimacy in my eyes. You can't have your cake and eat it too. In your world you legitimately expect that the Palestinians are warranted to use force on Israel because statehood is being rejected and that Israel would consider it reasonable to allow that to go unchecked? That Israel should just sit idly by with their hands under their asses allowing terrorists to, well, terrorize without any sort of legitimate response to that? In what world is that reasonable to suggest? I mean that will clearly never be a reality.

Israel is in the wrong. I've never denied that, nor would I because I don't particularly like Israel. But I don't understand where this notion that the Palestinians can somehow do no wrong themselves seems to come from, that they are instantly warranted in all of their conduct. I just don't see how you can demonize one side for militaristic use of force and not the other side using such force in a conflict such as this.
#159
Quote by Thrashtastic15
It's absurd to preach that Israel should stop all usage of force and to demonize them for their usage of force without mentioning and accepting the negative role and usage of force from the Palestinians. You can't dress up as a pacifist when it's fuck Israel time while also supporting militaristic action from Palestinians or even at the very least accepting it.

I'm not pro-Israel. But if you're going to condone Israel for violence you're going to have to condone Palestine as well if you're going to take a stance such as Erik's or have any sort of legitimacy in my eyes. You can't have your cake and eat it too. In your world you legitimately expect that the Palestinians are warranted to use force on Israel because statehood is being rejected and that Israel would consider it reasonable to allow that to go unchecked? That Israel should just sit idly by with their hands under their asses allowing terrorists to, well, terrorize without any sort of legitimate response to that? In what world is that reasonable to suggest? I mean that will clearly never be a reality.

Israel is in the wrong. I've never denied that, nor would I because I don't particularly like Israel. But I don't understand where this notion that the Palestinians can somehow do no wrong themselves seems to come from, that they are instantly warranted in all of their conduct. I just don't see how you can demonize one side for militaristic use of force and not the other side using such force in a conflict such as this.



EDIT: I do see where you're coming from, though. A normal person would have put this edit afterwards, but I would rather this next lot didn't come off confrontational, and it probably will.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all. My point is that there are different standards for random little warbands of terrorists and states. I don't expect the random little groups of jihadists in Gaza to do anything else than **** around and be dicks, but I hope for more from a wealthy democratic state.

And I think Israel, as ever, had other options. Aside from anything else, I've read several times that there were serious peace negotiations ongoing until they blew up al-Jabari. It's all very well seeking to be balanced and fair and saying "well both sides have done wrong and I condemn blah blah" but end of the day, there's one side with far more strength and power, and, I'd argue, responsibility.
Last edited by gabcd86 at Nov 15, 2012,
#160
Quote by Thrashtastic15

I'm not pro-Israel. But if you're going to condone Israel for violence you're going to have to condone Palestine as well if you're going to take a stance such as Erik's or have any sort of legitimacy in my eyes.

*condemn

And I do condemn it. Israel's just worse because a) they're a lot more powerful and b) it's not just a handful of individuals, it's state sanctioned force.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"