Page 2 of 4
#41
Stop trolling and do some reading.

In a nutshell, wood does make as large a difference. Different woods will have different frequency responses and resonate differently when say an E chord is played. The energy from the initial strike of the strings is transmitted to all parts of the guitar body, and the vibrations will have a whole mix of frequencies. Different tonewoods will cause certain frequencies to be combed out or peaks in certain frequencies... for example, alder will be brighter than something like mahogany because of increased treble and upper mid presence. Yes, the pickups do not "hear" the wood vibrations, but the wood the strings are attached to will affect the way the string-guitar system responds; there's energy transfer to the wood and the strings and vice versa and this causes the so-called 'tone' due to the wood. The wood basically damps certain frequencies which is reflected in the vibration of the string and this is the effect the pickup sees.

The inlays you talk about on the Gibson fretboards would make a difference, but it would not be noticeable in the grand scheme of things. They are only a thin slither sitting flush with the fretboard surface, and the fretboard is mostly rosewood. Therefore, the tonality of the mahogany/rosewood combination will dominate.

You can quite easily come up with a counter argument to yours BTW... why does the same pickup sound different in a different body? It can even be the same wood but a different shape and the strings will resonate differently.
#42
Quote by samuraigoomba
Hmmm, an incomplete study and no link to the abstract or peer-reviewed journal that looked at their findings. A suspicious man might suggest their methodology was flawed and/or biased and their results purely subjective. The guy doing the research isn't even a professor, just an honors student. Seriously? And the website calls him a "university researcher?" Matthew even states up front that he went into the research with the idea that tonewoods don't affect tone. So it's hardly unbiased research.

What a shock, the ratings and comments are disabled on the video, too! Again, exactly like how the creationists and 9/11 truthers do things. >_>

He may very well be correct, but the research needs to be done properly by experts qualified in fields related to tone, not some random guy with an express desire to prove his own preconceived notions.

http://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2012/article/does-$10,000-guitar-sound-better-than-$300

This seems to be the only study I can find that anyone has ever done on tonewoods, so there needs to be more work done in this field.


I agree there has to be more professional research, but it's just... (for lack of a better term) idiotic to say wood makes a difference with tone (when it's plugged in)
#43
Quote by Sullinger
Why would they?

From my experience, different picks affect tone. My Planet Waves Chrome Dome, for example, sounds warmer than my ultex picks. The effect really isn't that apparent, but, for me, it's noticeable between disparate picks.
HILT!

Where's Waldo?

#44
Quote by Sullinger
THEY DON'T SOUND THE SAME BECAUSE OF ELECTRONIC DIFFERENCES, MOSTLY WITH THE PICKUPS. (My counter analogy) It's like taking the same opaque red paint and painting an oak board and a pine board and then saying "Well, the red is a lot warmer on the pine then the oak"

... Thus giving them the same pickups. Hell, make it same pickups, pots, caps, and wires. They will still sound different; it's a fact, you can't argue with a fact, and you can't be smarter than a fact, and you're not doing anything to refute that fact.
Quote by Wisthekiller
tl;dr How does one safely remove the smell of a corpse from a banjo?


Would you run down past the fence?

Tell us, is the black box lying?
#45
Quote by baumaxx1
Stop trolling and do some reading.

In a nutshell, wood does make as large a difference. Different woods will have different frequency responses and resonate differently when say an E chord is played. The energy from the initial strike of the strings is transmitted to all parts of the guitar body, and the vibrations will have a whole mix of frequencies. Different tonewoods will cause certain frequencies to be combed out or peaks in certain frequencies... for example, alder will be brighter than something like mahogany because of increased treble and upper mid presence. Yes, the pickups do not "hear" the wood vibrations, but the wood the strings are attached to will affect the way the string-guitar system responds; there's energy transfer to the wood and the strings and vice versa and this causes the so-called 'tone' due to the wood. The wood basically damps certain frequencies which is reflected in the vibration of the string and this is the effect the pickup sees.

The inlays you talk about on the Gibson fretboards would make a difference, but it would not be noticeable in the grand scheme of things. They are only a thin slither sitting flush with the fretboard surface, and the fretboard is mostly rosewood. Therefore, the tonality of the mahogany/rosewood combination will dominate.

You can quite easily come up with a counter argument to yours BTW... why does the same pickup sound different in a different body? It can even be the same wood but a different shape and the strings will resonate differently.


I agree with you, and that makes sense. If the guitar is played acoustically. I don't know how to explain it, since all my previous attempts seemed to fail: it doesn't matter once it hits the pickup. If all this tonal wood hype was true, then why do we have 3 band eqs on our amps? Even if wood did make a difference plugged in, it wouldn't matter since the amp and effects you use would overshadow it.
Last edited by Sullinger at Nov 15, 2012,
#46
Quote by Pink Muse
... Thus giving them the same pickups. Hell, make it same pickups, pots, caps, and wires. They will still sound different; it's a fact, you can't argue with a fact, and you can't be smarter than a fact, and you're not doing anything to refute that fact.


That's complete BS. Use the same everything, even pickup height. It'll sound the same. You can't say something is fact just because you say it is; you need at least some logic and reason.
#47
Quote by Sullinger
I really didn't want to go here: but you guys are some of the biggest idiots I've ever experienced. If I'm ignoring all of you guys, why hasn't anyone said anything about my inlay evidence?

I addressed your "evidence" before and told you why it didn't work. The full length of the string oscillates, not just at that one fret. In fact, all fretting does is shorten the length of the string. And I personally don't think the difference in fretboard materials makes a tonal difference, but your inlay argument makes no sense.
Last edited by W4RP1G at Nov 15, 2012,
#48
Quote by Sullinger
I agree with you, and that makes sense. If the guitar is played acoustically. I don't know how to explain it, sense all my previous attempts seemed to fail: it doesn't matter once it hits the pickup. If all this tonal wood hype was true, then why do we have 3 band eqs on our amps? Even if wood did make a difference plugged in, it wouldn't matter since the amp and effects you use would overshadow it.

You have an EQ because, believe it or not, not everyone has a custom amp made to their exact specifications for each guitar, and even though there hundreds, if not thousands, of amps to choose from, sometimes you need to tweak that base sound. Seriously, I don't know how you can make the connection from "wood doesn't affect tone" to "that's why we need EQ knobs!"
Quote by Wisthekiller
tl;dr How does one safely remove the smell of a corpse from a banjo?


Would you run down past the fence?

Tell us, is the black box lying?
#49
Quote by Sullinger
That's complete BS. Use the same everything, even pickup height. It'll sound the same. You can't say something is fact just because you say it is; you need at least some logic and reason.

Dude, I've done that(as I've already stated). The difference can be heard, and it's as clear as day.
#50
Quote by W4RP1G
I addressed your "evidence" before and told you why it didn't work. The full length of the string oscillates, not at that one fret. In fact, all fretting does is shorten the length of the string. And I personally don't think the difference in fretboard materials makes a difference, but your inlay argument makes no sense.


It does when people say "Well, rosewood is brighter than maple" because 9 of your frets aren't even being played on the wood. So, I convinced you halfway. So, now, do your best to explain how the body wood would change the frequencies a string would create.
#51
Quote by Sullinger
I agree with you, and that makes sense. If the guitar is played acoustically. I don't know how to explain it, sense all my previous attempts seemed to fail: it doesn't matter once it hits the pickup. If all this tonal wood hype was true, then why do we have 3 band eqs on our amps? Even if wood did make a difference plugged in, it wouldn't matter since the amp and effects you use would overshadow it.


Did you really just say that? Man, you are being annahlated here on this forum, and you keep saying that it doesn't matter once it hits the pickup:

YES. IT. DOES. XD

This resonating of the wood changes the tone of the guitar as when the string begins to vibrate the wood resonates affecting how the strings sound when strumming, the when the strings are vibrating, the pickup, picks up the vibration of the string and the sound and tone it is making, and amplifies it.

Stop ignoring us please,
#53
Quote by W4RP1G
Dude, I've done that(as I've already stated). The difference can be heard, and it's as clear as day.


All the sudden you're using the same pickup height? And I'm not going to believe some butthurt guy on the internet, who, based on there username, evidently just follows the popular belief of the crowd.
#55
Quote by Sullinger
It does when people say "Well, rosewood is brighter than maple" because 9 of your frets aren't even being played on the wood. So, I convinced you halfway. So, now, do your best to explain how the body wood would change the frequencies a string would create.

Ok, I'll explain it AGAIN. The vibrations from the strings transfer into the wood and then back into the strings. Difference woods vibrate differently.
#56
Quote by KSEjunkie2468
Did you really just say that? Man, you are being annahlated here on this forum, and you keep saying that it doesn't matter once it hits the pickup:

YES. IT. DOES. XD

This resonating of the wood changes the tone of the guitar as when the string begins to vibrate the wood resonates affecting how the strings sound when strumming, the when the strings are vibrating, the pickup, picks up the vibration of the string and the sound and tone it is making, and amplifies it.

Stop ignoring us please,


STOP IGNORING ME! Different tone is just different frequencies put out. Let's say wood does make a difference. It wouldn't matter because you're completely changing the frequencies with all the knobs on your amp and pedals.
#57
Quote by Sullinger
It does when people say "Well, rosewood is brighter than maple" because 9 of your frets aren't even being played on the wood. So, I convinced you halfway. So, now, do your best to explain how the body wood would change the frequencies a string would create.

The ****? How are any of your frets not being played on the wood? Even if you have a scalloped fretboard, they're resonating through the neck.

Look man, if you want to just come clean and tell us you wanted a decent troll thread, then I'll applaud you now. But you've got no points that are sticking, ignore both anecdotal and scientific data while providing no support that sticks, and yet continue to claim we are wrong and ignoring your claims. If you were on our debate team, you would be kicked out for any combination of those, and yet we're still giving you a chance because we don't want you being unhappy with a guitar after thinking wood won't matter. If you're going to keep on this warpath and just pretend we're blubbering idiots who post gibberish for our own entertainment, though, then I'm out.
Quote by Wisthekiller
tl;dr How does one safely remove the smell of a corpse from a banjo?


Would you run down past the fence?

Tell us, is the black box lying?
#58
Quote by Sullinger
All the sudden you're using the same pickup height? And I'm not going to believe some butthurt guy on the internet, who, based on there username, evidently just follows the popular belief of the crowd.

What about my username?

Go ahead and dismiss my claims. But I told your dense, stupid ass in the other thread that I used the same pickup height.
#59
Quote by W4RP1G
Ok, I'll explain it AGAIN. The vibrations from the strings transfer into the wood and then back into the strings. Difference woods vibrate differently.


EXACTLY. So, how does the difference in woods vibrating change what frequencies a pickup picks up?
#60
Quote by W4RP1G
What about my username?

Go ahead and dismiss my claims. But I told your dense, stupid ass in the other forum that I used the same pickup height.


I'm assuming it's a Black Sabbath reference; Black Sabbath is completely overrated by everyone. Not saying they're bad, but people like you blindly like whatever everyone says is good.

But that's not my point.

And sorry if I didn't see one post you made, I'm arguing against the world here.
#61
Quote by Sullinger
EXACTLY. So, how does the difference in woods vibrating change what frequencies a pickup picks up?

Because science happens whether you accept it or not?
Quote by Wisthekiller
tl;dr How does one safely remove the smell of a corpse from a banjo?


Would you run down past the fence?

Tell us, is the black box lying?
#62
Quote by Pink Muse
Because science happens whether you accept it or not?


There wasn't any logic to that whatsoever.
#63
Quote by Sullinger
STOP IGNORING ME! Different tone is just different frequencies put out. Let's say wood does make a difference. It wouldn't matter because you're completely changing the frequencies with all the knobs on your amp and pedals.


In that case the EQ settings of a pickup wouldn't matter either because you could just "completely" change the frequencies with the knobs, according to you only the amp and pedal EQ controls the frequencies, and nothing else with a guitar has a set bass or treble output?

EQ only adds or reduces, it does not completely elliminate the tonal nature of your guitar unless you do some really extreme EQing, but my assertion stands under normal circumstances.
#64
Quote by Sullinger
I'm assuming it's a Black Sabbath reference; Black Sabbath is completely overrated by everyone. Not saying they're bad, but people like you blindly like whatever everyone says is good

So because I listened to an overrated band, my opinion is invalid? Sounds like you're grasping at straws to me.
#65
Quote by KSEjunkie2468
In that case the EQ settings of a pickup wouldn't matter either because you could just "completely" change the frequencies with the knobs, according to you only the amp and pedal EQ controls the frequencies, and nothing else with a guitar has a set bass or treble output?

EQ only adds or reduces, it does not completely elliminate the tonal nature of your guitar unless you do some really extreme EQing, but my assertion stands under normal circumstances.


ehhh... you kinda got me. But pickups also have a hot/cold element to them.
#66
Quote by W4RP1G
So because I listened to an overrated band, my opinion is invalid? Sounds like you're grasping at straws to me.


Well, this isn't an "opinion" topic.
But to your opinions, you're likely to not have an opinion, you just carry everyone else's opinion.
#67
Quote by Sullinger
EXACTLY. So, how does the difference in woods vibrating change what frequencies a pickup picks up?


Different woods resonate different frequencies back to the strings changing the string's tone, and the pickup picks up those frequencies. The pickup does not just detect vibration only stupid.

And you're such a troll about W4RP1G's musical tastes, we're not even talking about that you just thought you would insult rather than answer to W4RP1G's which completely rebutted yours and proved you wrong.
Last edited by KSEjunkie2468 at Nov 15, 2012,
#68
At this point we all assume you are TONE deaf and not very smart or just good at being a troll
What the hell!!!
#69
Quote by Sullinger
Well, this isn't an "opinion" topic.
But to your opinions, you're likely to not have an opinion, you just carry everyone else's opinion.


If it isn't an opinion topic then why did you bring up musical tastes and state your opinion about Black Sabbath? So incompetent.
#70
Quote by Sullinger
Well, this isn't an "opinion" topic.
But to your opinions, you're likely to not have an opinion, you just carry everyone else's opinion.

If he carried everyone else's opinion, why is he arguing against yours?

Look at it from our perspective. You made a pretty bold claim, we pointed out its flaws, you brought no solid claims, we did, you then turned to ad hominem arguments, and still had the audacity to get upset with us.
Everything you've brought up has been countered, and you haven't managed to refute anything of ours.
Quote by Wisthekiller
tl;dr How does one safely remove the smell of a corpse from a banjo?


Would you run down past the fence?

Tell us, is the black box lying?
#71
Quote by KSEjunkie2468


And you're such a troll bitch about W4RP1G's musical tastes, we're not even talking about that you just thought you would insult rather than answer to W4RP1G's which completely rebutted yours and proved you wrong.


Mega-butthurt fag detected. Well, the musical tastes thing was kinda off topic, but that kind of thing just bugs me "Ohhh, M3tallica420 would be such a cool name"... but it looks like you're starting to lose since you have to refer to my invalid argument to continue yours.
#72
Quote by Sullinger
Well, this isn't an "opinion" topic.
But to your opinions, you're likely to not have an opinion, you just carry everyone else's opinion.

This is definitely an opinion topic, since there is no concrete evidence on the matter.

And you're still grasping at straws. You've made no sound arguments against anything I've said, so you are going to just ignore me? That's pathetic.
#73
Quote by Pink Muse
If he carried everyone else's opinion, why is he arguing against yours?

Look at it from our perspective. You made a pretty bold claim, we pointed out its flaws, you brought no solid claims, we did, you then turned to ad hominem arguments, and still had the audacity to get upset with us.
Everything you've brought up has been countered, and you haven't managed to refute anything of ours.


I'M BRING UP MANY SOLID CLAIMS.
Alright:
1) Fingerboard isn't going to make a difference, this is proved every time you play a fret with an inlay
2) A pickup is a magnet. Magnets don't pickup wood.
3) Just because the wood vibrates with the strings, it doesn't mean the strings will create more of certain frequencies
4) If wood makes such a huge tone difference, then why do you mess with equalizers and effects, which will just overshadow your guitar's original tone?
#74
fingerpicking sounds different from using a pick...
HILT!

Where's Waldo?

#75
Hi, I am a REAL Scientist. I am a Geophysicist and I do REAL research and publish my findings. I will make the point that the arguments presented do not follow a true and honest methodology. The REAL way to test the HYPOTHESIS would be to make 2 identical guitars with only one difference (e.g. an ash body and a rosewood body) and test the frequency content (on a oscilloscope with fourier transform) and check if they are different.

If the point is that there is no wood in the "signal chain" well... a physics point could be made by explaining that even though this is true, when you play a note, all the guitar vibrate with the string (play an open string and slightly place your hand in the head of your guitar to test it). As your string and guitar are connected the string will vibrate differently if is connected to a denser material or to a flexible material (exactly why the bridge also affects your tone). Therefore, wood matters...physics says so
#76
Quote by W4RP1G
This is definitely an opinion topic, since there is no concrete evidence on the matter.

And you're still grasping at straws. You've made no sound arguments against anything I've said, so you are going to just ignore me? That's pathetic.


It's pretty pathetic you've wasted a solid 2 hours arguing with someone you claim has no argument.
#77
Quote by Sullinger
I'M BRING UP MANY SOLID CLAIMS.
Alright:
1) Fingerboard isn't going to make a difference, this is proved every time you play a fret with an inlay
2) A pickup is a magnet. Magnets don't pickup wood.
3) Just because the wood vibrates with the strings, it doesn't mean the strings will create more of certain frequencies
4) If wood makes such a huge tone difference, then why do you mess with equalizers and effects, which will just overshadow your guitar's original tone?

Objection Your Honor; asked and answered.

Please read our posts, I'm out of here.
Quote by Wisthekiller
tl;dr How does one safely remove the smell of a corpse from a banjo?


Would you run down past the fence?

Tell us, is the black box lying?
#78
Quote by marianoarnaiz
Hi, I am a REAL Scientist. I am a Geophysicist and I do REAL research and publish my findings. I will make the point that the arguments presented do not follow a true and honest methodology. The REAL way to test the HYPOTHESIS would be to make 2 identical guitars with only one difference (e.g. an ash body and a rosewood body) and test the frequency content (on a oscilloscope with fourier transform) and check if they are different.

If the point is that there is no wood in the "signal chain" well... a physics point could be made by explaining that even though this is true, when you play a note, all the guitar vibrate with the string (play an open string and slightly place your hand in the head of your guitar to test it). As your string and guitar are connected the string will vibrate differently if is connected to a denser material or to a flexible material (exactly why the bridge also affects your tone). Therefore, wood matters...physics says so


Evidence you're a real scientist/ these studies?
#79
Quote by Sullinger
It's pretty pathetic you've wasted a solid 2 hours arguing with someone you claim has no argument.

Same to you
#80
Quote by Sullinger
Mega-butthurt fag detected. Well, the musical tastes thing was kinda off topic, but that kind of thing just bugs me "Ohhh, M3tallica420 would be such a cool name"... but it looks like you're starting to lose since you have to refer to my invalid argument to continue yours.

>_>

"Fag" in 2012 on a forum for guitar players (as in, NOT 4chan)? How old are you?

Also, my opinion is that black sabbath isn't overrated at all. I'm gonna call the cops and tell them to come make you listen to Planet Caravan and Faeries Wear Boots until you agree with me.