wiht1
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2012
111 IQ
#1
First post, be kind!
I have a 1981 jcm800 100w head i'm wanting to sell. I know this is one of the first JCM 800's made as it was produced in the year the inception of the jcm800's. It's in really good condition, no mods and plays like a beast. What kind of offer can I be expecting? Any help greatly appreciated.
gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
1,236 IQ
#2
Quote by wiht1
First post, be kind!
I have a 1981 jcm800 100w head i'm wanting to sell. I know this is one of the first JCM 800's made as it was produced in the year the inception of the jcm800's. It's in really good condition, no mods and plays like a beast. What kind of offer can I be expecting? Any help greatly appreciated.


i have seen the 2204 at guitar center for ~1100, so maybe a 2203 may go for 1200 or 1300. that would prob be considered full on retail. if you sell it to a guitar center i wouldn't expect to get more than 500 or 600 bucks for it (maybe less).

if you sell it on CL or ebay you may be able to sell it for around 1000 usd. most savy guitar gear buyers would want it for 800 or less. if you have patience and don't need to get rid of it too quick you may be able to get someone to buy it for like 1200 to 1400.

someone could prob give you better numbers. btw, marshall reissued this amp and it sells for ~2300 bucks O.o
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Nov 20, 2012,
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#3
i think gumbi is pretty accurate except the top end. i can't see it ever going for more than $1200, and that would be someone that really wanted it.

$800-1000 would be my guess though.
Quote by Roc8995
I don't think I've ever played anything in black walnut. It's a great ice cream flavor, so I assume it works well for a strat too.

Quote by JustRooster
The slugs in the pickups for telecasters are from old winchester rifles, which is why they sound so country.
gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
1,236 IQ
#4
Quote by gregs1020
i think gumbi is pretty accurate except the top end. i can't see it ever going for more than $1200, and that would be someone that really wanted it.

$800-1000 would be my guess though.


thx greg

i was kinda guessing
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
311ZOSOVHJH
G G A - B A B Y
Join date: Mar 2008
7,171 IQ
#5
Yeah, I was thinking in that range too. If it was in great condition and had new tubes you might fetch that.

Try using the 'Cool Look Up' link in my sig. too to get an idea.

It works like this:

http://www.adhuntr.com/2012/05/all.html?cx=partner-pub-9413604915893153%3Ao8xsd8d7h7s&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&q=jcm+800+2203&as_qdr=a&sa=Search
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#6
righto gumbi.


2 - 1981 50 watt (2204) heads have sold on the bay recently. one was $1089 and the other $1075.

the 100 watter (2203) may be slightly more or less desirable, i honestly don't know. but that's what heads of the same year went for.
Quote by Roc8995
I don't think I've ever played anything in black walnut. It's a great ice cream flavor, so I assume it works well for a strat too.

Quote by JustRooster
The slugs in the pickups for telecasters are from old winchester rifles, which is why they sound so country.
gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
1,236 IQ
#7
^^man, i always forget about that lookup tool

Quote by gregs1020
righto gumbi.


2 - 1981 50 watt (2204) heads have sold on the bay recently. one was $1089 and the other $1075.

the 100 watter (2203) may be slightly more or less desirable, i honestly don't know. but that's what heads of the same year went for.


i was kinda assuming the 100 watt was more desirable, but that was pure assumption. kinda neglected that fact that used markets don't work like the new markets where the higher wattage version always goes for more cash.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#8
The 100W is more desirable. You can turn a 2203 into a 2204 by just pulling two tubes, you can't turn a 2204 into a 2203 without major surgery.
1981 makes it a vertical, that makes it one of the most sought after amps in history. It's the last true Marshall before the bean counters got control of the company and ****ed everything up.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
1,236 IQ
#9
they use the same trannie between the 100 watt and the 50 watt?
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#10
Different output tranny of course. You can't run a 2203 with two tubes pulled into a 4 ohm load. Well, you can but it isn't recommended.
Iirc they standardise the power tranny on the 800.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
311ZOSOVHJH
G G A - B A B Y
Join date: Mar 2008
7,171 IQ
#11
Quote by Cathbard
Different output tranny of course. You can't run a 2203 with two tubes pulled into a 4 ohm load. Well, you can but it isn't recommended.
Iirc they standardise the power tranny on the 800.

For sake of continuing the discussion in the hopes it helps the TS can you please elaborate? Plus it will drive me crazy if I don't understand. My amp is a JCM800 clone basically but I don't think Scott uses different trannies. It does have a built in half power switch and can run pentode/triode mode due to all of that.
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#12
Quote by Cathbard
The 100W is more desirable.

not to everyone. plenty of people prefer 50 watters to 100 watters.

to some it absolutely is yes, but not as a blanket statement.

even though you could pull two tubes and run it at 50 watts some people would prefer to just buy the 50 watter.

/inb4thoseguysarepussies
Quote by Roc8995
I don't think I've ever played anything in black walnut. It's a great ice cream flavor, so I assume it works well for a strat too.

Quote by JustRooster
The slugs in the pickups for telecasters are from old winchester rifles, which is why they sound so country.
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#13
Oh, ok. It's all about the input impedance of the transformer. If you remove two tubes the impedance no longer matches. That why you have to flip the impedance switch. If you were to run a 2203 with two tubes into a 4 ohm load you'd have to switch the amp to 2 ohms - there is no 2 ohm setting.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
bubb_tubbs
UG's Grouch
Join date: Mar 2009
1,302 IQ
#14
Quote by Cathbard
The 100W is more desirable. You can turn a 2203 into a 2204 by just pulling two tubes, you can't turn a 2204 into a 2203 without major surgery.
1981 makes it a vertical, that makes it one of the most sought after amps in history. It's the last true Marshall before the bean counters got control of the company and ****ed everything up.

Everything here is true, though it still shouldn't be worth more than about $1100.

I've never paid more than $900 for a JCM 800 in my life, and I've owned 3.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#15
Well, I purposely didn't enter into the cost issue. Here if you can find a vertical 2203 for under $2k you're a god.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
311ZOSOVHJH
G G A - B A B Y
Join date: Mar 2008
7,171 IQ
#16
Quote by Cathbard
Oh, ok. It's all about the input impedance of the transformer. If you remove two tubes the impedance no longer matches. That why you have to flip the impedance switch. If you were to run a 2203 with two tubes into a 4 ohm load you'd have to switch the amp to 2 ohms - there is no 2 ohm setting.

No, that part I understand. What I didn't understand was when you said 'different output trannys' were used between the 2203 and the 2204. The input impedence of the transformer used on each of those models had to be different because they did not have half power switches?

Similarly, I've been curious as to whether or not the 5153 50w mini uses beefy transformers like the 100w versions or not. Does a 50 watt amp not need as many winds of copper and therefore the resulting size is not as big. That is the part I've always been curious about actually.

Sorry TS - if I've now high-jacked your thread and welcome to UG

Yours must have vertical inputs?
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#17
50W and 100W amps have to have different number of windings for different number of tubes. That's what the impedance switch is doing - changing the number of coils. It does it on the secondary side of the tranny but that is reflected back to the primary.
Your Splawn is different to a Marshall when it comes to half power afaik. On a Marshall it just switches between pentode and triode mode so no change to transformer windings is needed. On your Splawn it actually turns off two tubes. That's correct isn't it?

The size of the iron matters too. More power requires more iron to keep it from saturating magnetically, it's not just about being able to fit a bigger bobbin to take more wire. Not sure what Peavey are doing but I'd guess that they use smaller iron to save money but that's just a guess. You'd have to compare them physically.

Does that answer your question?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
311ZOSOVHJH
G G A - B A B Y
Join date: Mar 2008
7,171 IQ
#18
Quote by Cathbard
50W and 100W amps have to have different number of windings for different number of tubes. That's what the impedance switch is doing - changing the number of coils. It does it on the secondary side of the tranny but that is reflected back to the primary.
Your Splawn is different to a Marshall when it comes to half power afaik. On a Marshall it just switches between pentode and triode mode so no change to transformer windings is needed. On your Splawn it actually turns off two tubes. That's correct isn't it?

The size of the iron matters too. More power requires more iron to keep it from saturating magnetically, it's not just about being able to fit a bigger bobbin to take more wire. Not sure what Peavey are doing but I'd guess that they use smaller iron to save money but that's just a guess. You'd have to compare them physically.

Does that answer your question?

That is one of the best explanations I've ever read

yes, my Splawn's half power switch turns off the two outer tubes when in half power.

PS: the 5153 is made by Fender for the EVH brand - but yes I've been curious if the mini has smaller trannys.

OK TS - you can have your thread back
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#19
Oh yeah, sorry about that. I did know they were made by Fender. That was a slip of the brain.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
3,630 IQ
#20
I'm taking up where 311 left off on this thread-jacking process:

Cath, what are the differences between using a Pentode/Triode method of half-power and using the "turn off two tubes" method? I'm not talking about pulling tubes, I mean as a built-in function. Is there a sound difference, cost difference, etc.?

I'm just curious becuase it bothers me when I run my amp in half-power that I'm wearing the tubes in a uneven fashion. Stupid OCD...
gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
1,236 IQ
#21
Quote by Blktiger0
I'm taking up where 311 left off on this thread-jacking process:

Cath, what are the differences between using a Pentode/Triode method of half-power


i do know that a triode uses only 3 electrodes (anode, cathode, grid) and a pentode uses 5 electrodes (anode, cathode, more gates).

Quote by wikipedia
Triodes have a lower internal anode resistance, and hence higher damping factor when used in audio output circuits, compared with pentodes, when negative feedback is absent. That also reduces the potential voltage amplification obtainable from a triode compared with a pentode of the same transconductance, and usually means a more efficient output stage can be made using pentodes, with a lower power drive signal.


basically a pentode is more efficient in the output section of an amp. switching it to triode mode should be little more than adjusting values to the pins of the tube wherein it loses efficiency and lowers the wattage.

Quote by Blktiger0
and using the "turn off two tubes" method? I'm not talking about pulling tubes, I mean as a built-in function. Is there a sound difference, cost difference, etc.?

I'm just curious becuase it bothers me when I run my amp in half-power that I'm wearing the tubes in a uneven fashion. Stupid OCD...


afaik, this should not really be too much different than pulling tubes... so maybe cath knows something i don't here.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
3,630 IQ
#22
Quote by gumbilicious
i do know that a triode uses only 3 electrodes (anode, cathode, grid) and a pentode uses 5 electrodes (anode, cathode, more gates).


basically a pentode is more efficient in the output section of an amp. switching it to triode mode should be little more than adjusting values to the pins of the tube wherein it loses efficiency and lowers the wattage.


afaik, this should not really be too much different than pulling tubes... so maybe cath knows something i don't here.


I'm aware of the difference between Pentode and Triode, I mostly meant build differences in terms of expense and differences it might have on your tone. Thanks for the info, though.

Yeah, they're basically the same, the amp just "pulls" the tube for you, as I understand.

I'm just curious about whether one would be preferable to the other for certain things
wiht1
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2012
111 IQ
#23
Thank you fellas, genuinly appreciated.
mmolteratx
UG God
Join date: Sep 2008
3,786 IQ
#24
Quote by gregs1020
righto gumbi.


2 - 1981 50 watt (2204) heads have sold on the bay recently. one was $1089 and the other $1075.

the 100 watter (2203) may be slightly more or less desirable, i honestly don't know. but that's what heads of the same year went for.


Also keep in mind that eBay prices are a bit higher than what you'd be able to sell for elsewhere, but with fees, you wind up paying ~12% of whatever you get these days, plus an additional 9% on the shipping costs. I'd probably pay $800 for a dead mint one. Maybe a tad more, depending on how badly I wanted it. There are just too many of them on the market to pay any more than that.

Quote by Cathbard
The 100W is more desirable. You can turn a 2203 into a 2204 by just pulling two tubes, you can't turn a 2204 into a 2203 without major surgery.
1981 makes it a vertical, that makes it one of the most sought after amps in history. It's the last true Marshall before the bean counters got control of the company and ****ed everything up.


Not really. For us, maybe. But for the majority of the market, the 50w JCMs tend to be more popular. I dunno what it is about 50w but lots of people tend to like that. Maybe because it seems like a nice midpoint between 100w and some dinky little practice amp.

Quote by bubb_tubbs
Everything here is true, though it still shouldn't be worth more than about $1100.

I've never paid more than $900 for a JCM 800 in my life, and I've owned 3.


Honestly, $1100 would really be pushing it. That's retail level, and maybe that's worth it to some but only if they get the reassurance of buying from a legit store who will take care of any undetected problems. Private sale is worth $900, absolute maximum, IMO. And that's being a bit generous.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind my prices don't include shipping, which is usually a bear these days. Expect $70-80 for that and just pass on the real cost in addition.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
patriotplayer90
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2007
2,825 IQ
#25
Quote by gumbilicious
i have seen the 2204 at guitar center for ~1100, so maybe a 2203 may go for 1200 or 1300. that would prob be considered full on retail. if you sell it to a guitar center i wouldn't expect to get more than 500 or 600 bucks for it (maybe less).

if you sell it on CL or ebay you may be able to sell it for around 1000 usd. most savy guitar gear buyers would want it for 800 or less. if you have patience and don't need to get rid of it too quick you may be able to get someone to buy it for like 1200 to 1400.

someone could prob give you better numbers. btw, marshall reissued this amp and it sells for ~2300 bucks O.o

I bought a '81 JCM 800 2204 that was modded for extra gain by Bruce Egnater a few years back for less than a grand at GC. It certainly seems like prices have risen.
mmolteratx
UG God
Join date: Sep 2008
3,786 IQ
#26
Quote by patriotplayer90
I bought a '81 JCM 800 2204 that was modded for extra gain by Bruce Egnater a few years back for less than a grand at GC. It certainly seems like prices have risen.


10 years ago they were selling for $500. Of course prices have risen a bit. Though a few years ago, Egnater's mods also weren't really worth a whole lot due to a lack of brand recognition.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
patriotplayer90
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2007
2,825 IQ
#27
Quote by mmolteratx
10 years ago they were selling for $500. Of course prices have risen a bit. Though a few years ago, Egnater's mods also weren't really worth a whole lot due to a lack of brand recognition.

It was two years, tops. I know his production amplifiers had been established by that point, but maybe it wouldn't be worth any more now. If I could go back in time, I would rather pay $500 for an original.