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#41
IMO MIM strats are still worth looking for. some of them are great and some not. i have owned over ten strats (on HY1 and one american standard), all other MIM. the current strat is a 1995 MIM. it is by far the best out of the strats i have owned. i like the pickups more from older strats than the newer ones.

by far most MIA strats are better than MIM strats, but there always is one worse MIA and one better MIM.

if you want to demo a large number of MIM's odds are you would find to your liking. i am happy with my strat, but probably will pick up another MIA in the future though.

but if you don't have the time or want to take the time to play a dozen on an MIM strat, scratch it off of the list.

godin is great from more of what i have heard (only played one for maybe 10 minutes, it was a nice guitar, but you can't judge much on one, but most on here like godin. so i have little experience but are found to be well respected here.

G&L are very nice guitars, most IMO are better than fenders in direct comparison but i have only tried the strat shape out. i have only played two though, so again, not really enough personally but the reputation is good.

for an amp i would look for either a Tiny Terror or an Egnater tweaker. the tiny terror can go down to seven watts (which is hella loud dimed) but managable for at night. i have the dual terror and i usually run it on seven watts and play until 3am, and i don't bother my wife or anything.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#42
I keep meaning to get around to trying those two small amps out.

Which has the better clean? The better distortion?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 5, 2012,
#43
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I keep meaning to get around to trying those two amps out.

Which has the better clean? The better distortion?


tiny terror/dual terror have no cleans whatsoever. all grit. i love my dual terror's gain. it is pure sex. i may have an old clip up with it and an OD on my profile, but it may not be there, i think all of my clips are like three years old, but

i owned the first generation of tweakers (waited 6 months on a waiting list), and they are pretty versatile, but again not much headroom. the one i had was 15 watts, and it had very limited cleans. but when you turn it up, they are lost.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#44
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Only buy online from sellers with a good return policy.


i agree, but sometimes if you buy from abroad (certainly outside the EU) they won't cover return postage and (especially for things originating in the UK, postage prices here seem to have been made up for their comedy value) that can get expensive pretty darn quickly. there's not much point in a store having a good return policy if it costs you so much to get it back to them that you think twice, lol.

Quote by D3M0N1C
(a) Thanks for stopping by Dave, yeah its doing my head in trying to narrow it down, (b)I definitely wouldn't order from a different country, I'm not brave enough to take the risk lol! (c) After a bit of thought, I don't think the Godins will be the quality I'm after either, (d) I kinda like the G&L tributes, if it weren't for the risk factor as you point out, are the USA builds that much better? If the pickups on the MIMs are that bad I'll probably give them a miss as I don't really want to buy a spanking guitar and start tinkering with it. (e) I'm also weary about the build quality of the Tokai, are they any better/worse than the MIM Fenders? (f) If I were to purchase a MIM Fender Strat, and replace the pickups with the EMG DG-20's, would it be worthwhile?

(g) I'm looking at a few more Amps if anyone has anything to say about them, with Gilmourish tones in mind:

Peavey Classic 30 - Too loud for bedroom use?
Laney Cub 12R?
Fender Blues Junior?
Fender FSR Hot Rod III Blues Junior 'Red Nova' Two-Tone?

From what I've read, most people seem to think Marshall Amps aren't a good choice for what I'm trying to achieve?


(a) no problem

(b) no worries, that's absolutely your choice.

(c) I'm just wondering what you're basing that on? I've only tried one or two godins, but i thought they were pretty nice. they're made in canada. I'd have said they were better than an MIM fender (certainly the standards), but I'd really want to try a few more to be sure.

(d) I'm honestly not sure. I've only tried the USA ones. Based on my knowledge of other offshore-built cheaper versions of higher end guitars (and also just basic economics- if the tributes were as good, how many USA ones would they sell?), I'm guessing there's a fair difference- but I think USA uses the same pickups on both, and as i said I haven't tried them so I don't know is the simple answer.

(e) if you ask me, the MIJ tokais (that's the ones around £500 or so... generally they say "Made in Japan" on the neck heel so it's pretty easy to tell) are way better than MIM Fenders. Fender makes guitars in japan and prices them above the MIMs (and also makes few of them available outside japan, as they know they'd kill the MIMs, and frequently handicaps the cheaper ones with cheap electronics and parts for the same reason). Fender outsources the Japanese production- Tokai, among others, has made guitars for Fender, in other words. That Fender prices above the MIMs. You're basically cutting out the middle man and getting a non-export Fender Japan guitar for MIM Fender money.

Bear in mind I'm an MIJ fanboy. So how objective the stuff I posted is, I dunno. But yeah I'd query the logic of thinking an MIJ tokai isn't good enough but an MIM fender is.

The only thing about the MIJ Tokais is, they're very much vintage spec Fenders. That means vintage radius, narrow nut, vintage neck profiles etc. If you like a more modern style of guitar you might want to look elsewhere (however, the GS100, which I've still seen in stock at a few online stores for around £400, is a more modern-style strat, albeit with 21 frets, and might be worth considering).

(f) maybe, but it'd depend on how good the MIM was and how much it cost overall.

(g) I still think the traynor is best. you'd have to order it from thomann in germany, but if my experience is anything to go by they're pretty good- i've had faulty stuff from them before and they pay return postage if something is faulty, and pick it up at your house (if you ask). For me (I'm in Northern Ireland) it's no different than buying online from a shop in England (and you're covered by the same EU-wide distance selling regulations- though returning something you don't like could be costly as international postage costs a lot). Obviously if you're right next door to a killer shop it might be different, though.

Bear in mind almost any tube amp (apart from ones with VVR or power scaling, basically) will be too loud for bedroom volumes if you want to crank it up to get power tube overdrive. if you're willing to rely on preamp tube distortion and/or pedals, then most should be ok as long as you don't need to be able to play at "not-wake-a-sleeping-baby" levels. But some amps are better at low volumes than others, so it does pay to try a bunch to see.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 5, 2012,
#45
i agree, but sometimes if you buy from abroad (certainly outside the EU) they won't cover return postage and (especially for things originating in the UK, postage prices here seem to have been made up for their comedy value) that can get expensive pretty darn quickly. there's not much point in a store having a good return policy if it costs you so much to get it back to them that you think twice, lol.


Good thing to keep in mind, to be sure!

Of course, sometimes, you simply don't have a choice because what you want isn't available where you live. Especially with something like guitars, where there are literally hundreds if not thousands of small-scale quality builders worldwide.

I live in a major metropolitan area in the USA, and there are brands I never see here...never HEARD of until I started hanging out on guitar-related boards. And then you get to see all those "help me buy a new guitar" threads from people in India, Iraq, Croatia...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 5, 2012,
#46
^ oh yeah, of course. personally I generally am willing to buy from abroad- but i've tried enough guitars now that i have a fair idea if I'll like the thing or not, so if it does have to go back, it'll probably be because the thing is faulty (in which case the dealer should cover the postage). But yeah it's a judgement call that each person has to make, and it depends on the individual circumstances, too.
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#47
Evenin chaps, another quick thank you to everyone for helping me out! Your all so kind

After another day of racking my brain with decisions, I've changed my mind about some things:

A headphones port is no longer a deciding factor for me, If I need to play at night I'll just use my old Amp, its better than not playing at all right lol? I've given up trying to find a high end one with headphones out, its ridiculous!

My bedroom is quite large (If it makes a difference) - roughly 4m width x 5m length x 3m height, so about 50-60m square.

So, bearing in mind I'm trying to achieve Gilmourish tones, and be buying pretty much blind online from retailers in the UK, (Thomann/GAK/GuitarGuitar seem to have a good selection) I'd probably be better off buying a guitar with the most reliable build quality overall right? As stated before, MIMs are hit and miss, so buying one online is a gamble. As for the G&L's and Godins, I'm still researching them, the guitars themselves look pretty sweet, but whats the hardware like, pickups etc?

Also which pickups, or pickup combination would be best to achieve the tone I want?

Sorry if I'm being repetitive, but if I keep listing what I'm looking at, and scratching them off one by one, eventually my list should get shorter and easier to manage, if I don't keep adding to the list that is, lol!

Guitar:
Fender FSR American Special Stratoccaster SSS - Little over budget.
Fender American Special Stratocaster HSS - Little over budget.
Fender Classic Series 70s Stratocaster - Little over budget.
Fender Jimmie Vaughan Tex Mex Stratocaster?
Tokai Strat MIJ - Cannot Find in the UK?
Godin Session - Inferior hardware?
G&L Tribute - Inferior hardware/build quality in my region? I'd still consider these, depending how they match up with others on my list.

(The more money I spend on a guitar, the less I can spend on an Amp & effects) - Obviously

Amp:
Peavey VYPYR Tube 60 - Gilmouresque?
Traynor YCV50B - Gilmouresque?
Tubemeister 18 - Gilmouresque?
Peavey Classic 30
Laney Cub 12R - This gets a lot of praise, especially from bedroom Gilmour fans?
Fender Blues Junior

Effects: (I'm pretty sure I'll be getting all of these at some point, or something similar, unless anyone can suggest something better)
TC Electronics Nova Delay
Big Muff
Fuzz Face
Boss RT20 (Is there anything better to create the rotary sound of the Leslies?)

I'm sure I'll get there in the end, cheers
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 5, 2012,
#48
G&L and Godin are built like rocks: solid construction, good hardware- comperable to or better than Fenders of similar price.

The only thing that might be a problem would be pickups, and that would mainly be an issue of taste. But pickups are changeable.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#49
thomann is in germany, just to point out.

i think gilmour is generally a hiwatt. I'm not sure if anyone makes anything hiwatty at your budget (or anywhere close to it), but i could be wrong.

tokai

http://www.soundpad.co.uk/webshop/manufacturers/tokai/tokai-gs100/

http://www.soundpad.co.uk/webshop/manufacturers/tokai/tokai-gs100-2/ (i've never bought from soundpad)

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1441_Tokai_TST-50_-_Golden_Sunburst.html (that's a bit dear... rockem used to have them for more like £550 but they only seem to have the teles at the moment)
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
#50
Thanks for that Dave, I'd still probably order from Thomann although its in Germany, simply because there's a lot of people in the UK that use and rate them, if I couldn't get what I need from the UK that is. Yeah your right about the Hiwatts, I ain't gonna get one with my budget that's suitable. Have you ordered from Frets Guitar Center before? I haven't heard of them and it's a three & a half hour drive so can't check them out easily, unless I seriously consider that guitar, Its a long drive. I couldn't find the Tokai anywhere else though, & its much better than the other side of the world.

At just shy of £700 it is expensive, although it does come with a hard case. I could get one of the American made strats I listed above for just over £700, wouldn't they be better than the Tokai at that price?

Are we allowed to post links to other sites?
Please let me know if you come across anymore for sale, I didn't realize Tokai were so respected to be honest.

If its only the pickups that are an issue on the G&L's and Godin's Danny, I won't strike them off my list just yet, I'm sure I'd cope with the stock pickups for a while and getting one of those would give me more budget for an Amp & pedals, or maybe I'd have some leftover change which would be nice
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 5, 2012,
#51
If you haven't already, try to find a couple of G&Ls and Godins in your price range being demoed on YouTube- that will give you an idea of what they may sound like.

Because the pickups are the only potential flaws I've found on those guitars, and that's all down to taste. The ones I tried sounded great.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#52
Cool, I'll do that Danny, both are worth considering because they're readily available in most decent stores and have a more consistent build quality than Fender, although it has been pointed out that G&L's are much better coming from the US. Any idea where the Godins are made, is it Canada? They're also much cheaper than my other options. Would you not favor one over the other with G&L and Godin?

I've also contacted Rockem and Frets Guitar Centre about the Tokais, I'm struggling to find anymore vendors in the UK.
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 5, 2012,
#53
All Godins are made in Canada, as I recall, though they may have made some I the USA at some point.

As for one over the other...geeze...

I've gotten to try a few of each, and not a one has disappointed me. Put me in a room with a timer, and I'd probably pick one by color! My gut tells me that MiA G&L are probably the best made, overall, but the Godins seem to deliver more bang for the buck.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#54
Hey,
Firstly, a guitar recommendation: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-classic-series-60s-stratocaster-electric-guitar?content=review#review
very good MIM fenders for the price, i've played about 20 and only 1 was average in quality, the rest were amazing. If you go buy a Big Muff, DO NOT BUY THE CURRENT VERSION BEING SOLD. IT IS HORRIBLE. Buy a clone of an old rams head or triangle, you will be MUCH happier.
For your amps, the Peavey VYPYR Tube 60 is not Gilmourish by any means. The Cub 12R and Blues Junior are great amps for Gimourish style tones. Lastly, I know I will get a lot of hate for this, but check out a Bugera V22. It is the preamp of a Fender Twin mixed with a Peavey classic 30 combined with the power amp of a Vox AC30, and it delivers really great tones. A nice demo video I can recommend (not me playing) is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-xqg87Cowk Yes, it does sound that good.
Call me walrus! Or latte!

Gear:
Fernandes Retrorocket Deluxe DG
G&L Tribute ASAT Deluxe Carved Top
Fender Lonestar Deluxe Reissue (MIM, Texas Specials and Pearly Gates HB)
ZOOM G5
Danelectro Daddy-O overdrive
#55
Quote by D3M0N1C
Thanks for that Dave, I'd still probably order from Thomann although its in Germany, simply because there's a lot of people in the UK that use and rate them, if I couldn't get what I need from the UK that is. Yeah your right about the Hiwatts, I ain't gonna get one with my budget that's suitable. (a) Have you ordered from Frets Guitar Center before? I haven't heard of them and it's a three & a half hour drive so can't check them out easily, unless I seriously consider that guitar, Its a long drive. I couldn't find the Tokai anywhere else though, & its much better than the other side of the world.

(b) At just shy of £700 it is expensive, although it does come with a hard case. I could get one of the American made strats I listed above for just over £700, wouldn't they be better than the Tokai at that price?

(c) Are we allowed to post links to other sites?
Please let me know if you come across anymore for sale, I didn't realize Tokai were so respected to be honest.


(a) yep i have. only once, but they seemed pretty decent. Nothing went wrong, though, so I have no idea what their after-sales service is like. They also have some of the fretkings at good prices, too (i got my tele/strat hybrid there).

(b) yeah £700 is expensive. as i said, when rockem had them (and still has the teles) they were more like £500 or so. As I said, I know I'm a massive MIJ fanboy and even I'd be wondering if they were worth it at £700. Granted I got my (new) tokai MIJ tele for just over £400, but still.

if you do want to go the tokai strat route, those gs100s are better value at £400. Granted they don't look exactly like a strat (and I haven't tried them, but I presume they're tokai's usual quality), but for a £300 saving... As i said, I don't think they're worth £700. Fenders have been going up in price too, but some shops have old stock at slightly better prices, which might be worth considering.

(c) yep, sure, as long as it's not blatant advertising/spamming.

Quote by D3M0N1C
Cool, I'll do that Danny, both are worth considering because they're readily available in most decent stores and have a more consistent build quality than Fender, although it has been pointed out that G&L's are much better coming from the US. Any idea where the Godins are made, is it Canada? They're also much cheaper than my other options. Would you not favor one over the other with G&L and Godin?


i'm not sure i'd say godin and g&l have that much better build quality than fender- maybe if you're talking MIM standard fender versus godin or USA G&L versus USA fender. the thing about guitars is that you have to look at specific models rather than brands.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 6, 2012,
#56
Hello again folks, thanks again for the continued help, I'll try & wrap this up in next few days as I'm sure you guys are getting sick of me by now

Here's another update on what I'm looking at, In approximate price order (Not just for you guys, as a reminder to myself as well):

Godin Session Custom MN LB - £720
Fender American Special - £700
Tokai TST-50 - £695
Fret-King Blue Label Super 60 - £650
Fret-King Black Label - £600
Godin Session Plus - £600
Fender Classic Player 50's Strat - £595 (Limited offer, Should be £750)
Fret-King Super Hybrid - Original - £595 (Limited offer, Should be £700)
Fender Classic Series - £580
G&L Tribute S-500 - £420
Godin Session - £400
Fret-King Country Squire Super S - £395 (Limited offer, Should be £730)
G&L Tribute Legacy - £350

Do any of these stand out to anyone, as either being a really good or bad choice? I'm looking into them all, definitely be buying one.....I think!

Which pickup combination would be best for Glimour/Hendrix tone?

Here's a few links to some of them, I didn't want to spam too many, hope that's OK:

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1441_Tokai_TST-50_-_Golden_Sunburst.html

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1447_Fender_Classic_Player_50s_Stratocaster_-_Shoreline_Gold.html

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1490_Fret-King_Super_Hybrid_-_Original_Classic_Burst.html

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1363_Fret-King_Country_Squire_Super_S_-_Original_Classic_Burst.html

I don't like the color of the Fender Classic Player 50, but is that a good deal at that price?

Also, I've contacted numerous retailers that regularly acquire Tokai guitars and had the same reply from all of them, they all claim that Tokai Strat's are becoming very hard to obtain, especially brand new in the UK, a few say they could get me one in but may take four to six months! And they can't even promise that! So considering prices may vary with supply and demand, would the Tokai TST-50 be worth it at £695?

To be honest, the more I research the Godin's and G&L's, the more I want one of those, I also really like the Fret-Kings too! Fenders are slowly becoming less and less attractive to me the more I compare them.

This was supposed to be a short post to keep people interested in helping me, so I wont go into Amps right now, but my list is down to three or four so shouldn't be too much of a headache!

Cheers dudes!

Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 8, 2012,
#57
Of the ones you linked to:

I'm not a huge fan of the Tele body, but from what i understand of their pricing structure, that Fret-King Blue Label is a steal at that price!

I also liked that Super Hybrid- a good price for a HSH hardtail.

Of all the Godins on your list, I liked the Session Plus the most.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#58
The super hybrid seems like a great choice out of those four.
#59
Yeah the Fret-King Blue Labels are a limited offer, should be £880 apparently! Only thing is, ones bright orange, the other ice white?!? The guy said they'll sell very quick and are top notch instruments for the price! I do like the Hybrid as well, very different, I wouldn't mind a Tele, as long as I can get the tones I'm after.

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1361_Fret_King_Super_60_SP_-_Electric_Orange_Metallic.html

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1362_Fret_King_Super_60_SP_-_Ice_White.html
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 8, 2012,
#60
Sorry, my bad- I misread the info on the link and thought the Country Squire was a Blue Label. Still looks like a hell of a guitar, though.

I'd go for the metallic orange Super 60 over the Ice White.*

Buying for myself (in no particular order), I think the 4 finalists would be

1) Fret-King Super Hybrid: HSH, hardtail.

2) Godin Session Plus: HSS w/trem

3) Fret-King Super 60 (met. orange): P90SS w/trem

4) G&L Tribute S-500: SSS w/trem


* and honestly, I think part of that is I'm currently looking at Orange combo amps, and the combination of the two would be striking, to say the least.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 8, 2012,
#61
Sweet, cheers for your opinion Danny, we're finally getting somewhere at last!

I think my absolute top favorites so far, in potential buying order, considering value for money, are:

1) Fret-King Super 60 - £435 for metallic orange, or £550 in golden sunburst! Grrr.
2) Godin Session Plus - £600
3) G&L Tribute S-500 - £420
4) Tokai TST-50 - £695
5) Fret-King Country Squire Super S - £395
6) Fret-King Super Hybrid - £595

I didn't like the orange super 60 at first, but its growing on me, would look pretty sexy with a black pick guard, paired with an orange Amp and black/orange cables! Although I'd probably like it much better in golden sunburst, but for £120 saving I may be able to cope with it!

If I had to choose right now it would definitely be between those six, I was just looking for excuses to get a Fender with the others to be honest

It's doing my head in that much choosing between them, I've considered trying to get a deal on two! Maybe the Tokai and the Super 60 for £1000, if they'd knock me £100 off, but I doubt it! Or maybe a strat and a tele/tele-hybrid
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 8, 2012,
#62
I wouldn't swap out the pickguard on the Fret-King, personally, if I were pairing it with an Orange amp...unless I got one in black tolex. The orange & white would mimic the amp so well.

Besides, Fret-king pickguards seem to have an oddball upper edge shape- might be hard to replace.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 9, 2012,
#63
I would say the tokai at £695 is very expensive. It'd put me off, and I'm a massive fan of the MIJ tokais. As i said- a couple of shops still have the gs100 at around the £400 mark. If you do want an MIJ tokai strat-style guitar (and as i said, I haven't tried that exact model, I'm just assuming it's the same quality as other MIJ tokais, which it probably is, but obviously I can't say for sure) that's probably the way to go.

I'd say those MIM Fender Classic Players are very dear are £595, let alone £750. Obviously that's my opinion, but yeah.

You linked to a couple of tele-style guitars (godin and fret king)- I'm not sure, for what you want, they'd really be the best option. I think a strat or a fat strat (with bridge humbucker or p90) or HSH strat would be a better idea.

I haven't really tried enough of the godins to really know if the dearer ones are the same guitar with better pickups, or actually built better too. If you can still find one, the freeway i tried was quite nice and is an HSH superstrat. It was normally around the £300-£400 mark. (they only seem to do the freeway SA now which has acoustic/piezo capabilities, i think, and it's more money. )

a lot of those godins have basswood bodies- i wouldn't necessarily say basswood is bad, but for vintage strat tone, alder or ash are probably better.

That fret king hybrid is in the black label series- i haven't tried them, but as far as i'm aware they have korean hardware, not japanese-made gotoh/wilkinson like the blue labels. So, on paper anyway, the blue labels are better and cheaper.

I'm kind of wary of recommending what to go for because (a) obviously it's your call and your opinion may disagree with mine but also (b) because I seem to be going towards the fretkings, and I own both the super 60 and the country squier super S and I don't want you to think I'm just recommending what I have. I should probably point out that the super 60 i have has the neck not on quite straight- it's a pretty easy fix with a strategically-placed shim (which i haven't got round to doing yet, so obviously it's not massively adversely affecting the guitar), i think, but ideally it'd be on straight in the first place. FWIW the country squire (which i got from frets) has the neck on straight.

EDIT: i'd also say- don't assume you can swap the pickguard on the fretkings, because their pickguards are their own shape. some places will make you a custom pickguard, but that can get (quite) expensive, i think.

Oh and also i haven't tried the g&l tributes, which i why i didn't mention them.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 9, 2012,
#64
Hey dudes,

I know what your saying about the Fret-King pick guards Danny, I don't think I'd bother replacing it either, but I do think it would look much better in black, I shouldn't be worrying about cosmetics just yet anyway should I.

I don't know what it is about the Tokai TST-50 Dave, I know it shouldn't really be on my list at that price, but its very pretty. That Frets Guitar Center was a nice little find by the way, I'd never heard of them before, they've got some quality guitars I'm struggling to find elsewhere.
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for your Country Squier Super S? I wont be buying it for use as my primary guitar, but I thought £395 was a good price for a nice little tele, there's also a pre-owned Fender Classic 50s tele for the same price. I really shouldn't be thinking of getting two guitars, but if its a good deal I might!

Everyone I've been talking to so far tells me to get the Super 60! It'll most likely be between the Fret-King and Godin I think, should be ordering tomorrow if I can decide!

1) Fret-King Super 60 (HB or SP?) - £435 for metallic orange or ice white, or £550 in golden sunburst!
2) Godin Session Plus - £600
3) G&L Tribute S-500 - £420

Potential secondary guitar: (Not really important)
4) Fret-King Country Squire Super S - £395
5) Fender Classic 50s Telecaster - £395

Also, I've just been informed that I can get either:

Blue Label Super 60 HB
Blue Label Super 60 SP

The HB's are £15 more and come in orange, white, green and vintage sunburst! But my question is, which one would better suit the tones I'm after? I'm about 80% sure It'll be one of the Fret-Kings I end up getting.

Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 9, 2012,
#65
About the body woods: the Godins do use basswood on the Session models, but everything above that, as I recall, is maple or maple with poplar wings.

I really shouldn't be thinking of getting two guitars, but if its a good deal I might!


FWIW, when I went electric, I bought 2 guitars, one of MUCH higher quality than the other. I still use both of them, but the less expensive one is going to have its pickups upgraded in 2013 (that is its only flaw, as far as I'm concerned).

The HB's are £15 more and come in orange, white, green and vintage sunburst! But my question is, which one would better suit the tones I'm after? I'm about 80% sure It'll be one of the Fret-Kings I end up getting.


Wow, tough choice!

My gut tells me that the one with the P90 would be closer to the classic sound- just a tad beefier than a true SSS- but the one with the HB would give you an even broader tonal palette.

Then again, the mix of P90s and singles is a small but growing trend. I've seen the Reverend Double Agent, a couple of Nick Huber and Duesenbergs, and I think one or two of the Fender Blacktop series set up that way. It's a nice combination, and I currently own ZERO guitars with P90s...

Which is why, instead of buying one of those guitars, my Dean Special Select EVO (the lesser electric guitar mentioned above) will be getting a Bareknuckle Rebel Yell and a Bareknuckle Stockholm HBSP90 put in it in 2013 as opposed to 2 Rebel Yells.
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Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 9, 2012,
#66
Quote by D3M0N1C
Hey dudes,

(a) I know what your saying about the Fret-King pick guards Danny, I don't think I'd bother replacing it either, but I do think it would look much better in black, I shouldn't be worrying about cosmetics just yet anyway should I.

(b)I don't know what it is about the Tokai TST-50 Dave, I know it shouldn't really be on my list at that price, but its very pretty. That Frets Guitar Center was a nice little find by the way, I'd never heard of them before, they've got some quality guitars I'm struggling to find elsewhere.
(c) If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for your Country Squier Super S? I wont be buying it for use as my primary guitar, but I thought £395 was a good price for a nice little tele, there's also a pre-owned Fender Classic 50s tele for the same price. I really shouldn't be thinking of getting two guitars, but if its a good deal I might!

(d) Everyone I've been talking to so far tells me to get the Super 60! It'll most likely be between the Fret-King and Godin I think, should be ordering tomorrow if I can decide!

1) Fret-King Super 60 (HB or SP?) - £435 for metallic orange or ice white, or £550 in golden sunburst!
2) Godin Session Plus - £600
3) G&L Tribute S-500 - £420

Potential secondary guitar: (Not really important)
4) Fret-King Country Squire Super S - £395
5) Fender Classic 50s Telecaster - £395

Also, I've just been informed that I can get either:

Blue Label Super 60 HB
Blue Label Super 60 SP

(e) The HB's are £15 more and come in orange, white, green and vintage sunburst! But my question is, which one would better suit the tones I'm after? I'm about 80% sure It'll be one of the Fret-Kings I end up getting.



(a) I wouldn't completely discount cosmetics. I wouldn't buy a bad guitar that looked cool, but a guitar you hate the look of could annoy you, too.

(b) yeah. I mean, it's your money and your choice. As long as you're aware that that's maybe a little over the odds, and as long as you go in with your eyes open, it's up to you.

(c) I paid £395 (plus the postage was £15 if i remember correctly). They've had those deals for a while. According to my emails I got mine at the end of july, so they've had those deals up at least as long as that. I generally check/checked their site every so often (because of the fret kings and tokais), so I doubt they were up much before that, but I also doubt I bought it the first day they were up, kind of thing.

(d) it really is up to you. As I said, I haven't tried the tributes and haven't tried enough godins to be sure.

Certainly, on paper, the fret kings are good value if you get them at those frets prices of around the £400 mark. And the couple I've tried are nice guitars, too- they're korean-made, but (aside from the electronics, which are a little bit cheap-feeling) if I tried one blind I'm not sure I could tell it from an MIJ. I don't say that about a lot of Korean-made guitars around those kind of prices. Obviously, though, I'm only judging based on the two I've tried/own.

For the tele- rockem has the tokai teles for around the £500 mark. that might be pushing it if you were getting a second guitar, too. But I thought I'd just point it out if you do have your heart set on a tokai. it's a fair bit better than £695!

(e) I didn't realise you also had the option of the humbucker version. I just looked at frets' site and they only had the p90. P90s are not a million miles from humbuckers, but they're not exactly the same, either. Generally speaking, they have a less tight bass and a rawer, less sophisticated tone with maybe a little more bite in the treble too (as they're single coils). They also have single coil noise.

I haven't tried the humbucker version, but assuming it's the exact same guitar just with a humbucker in there, I'd probably get the humbucker version. While I really like p90s, I personally find humbuckers a bit more useful and versatile. Plus they're noiseless which is handy if you're using a lot of distortion.

Obviously it's up to you, and you won't go too far wrong with either. But you did ask, so...



EDIT: just to clarify- when you said the humbucker version was £15 more- you meant it's £450, right?

bear in mind- i think i remember reading that the humbucker doesn't auto-split in the bridge/middle position. So that position might not sound too great (that being said, it's little different than the p90 version in that respect as the bridge pickup overpowers the middle pickup in the p90 guitar, too).

Quote by dannyalcatraz

Wow, tough choice!

My gut tells me that the one with the P90 would be closer to the classic sound- just a tad beefier than a true SSS- but the one with the HB would give you an even broader tonal palette.


nah it's about the same difference as an HSS strat. it's a fairly hot and fat p90.

Neither is gonna do the "true" strat SSS thing, in other words.

I guess you could get round that by getting another tapped p90... but then you could do the same with another coil split humbucker. So it's about even, really. I'd go with the HB just because I think it's more versatile- don't get me wrong, I really dig the p90/s/s setup, it is very cool, but I have several guitars, I already have the humbucker thing covered.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 9, 2012,
#67
Certainly, on paper, the fret kings are good value if you get them at those frets prices of around the £400 mark. And the couple I've tried are nice guitars, too- they're korean-made, but (aside from the electronics, which are a little bit cheap-feeling) if I tried one blind I'm not sure I could tell it from an MIJ. I don't say that about a lot of Korean-made guitars around those kind of prices. Obviously, though, I'm only judging based on the two I've tried/own.


I have to say that the quality of MiKs I've seen recently- including my new Fernandes Ravelle- has been pretty damn good.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#68
yeah. i haven't tried any for a while, aside from my fretkings, but the fretkings are pretty good.
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#69
Thanks again for taking the time out to help me, you're all awesome, especially you two (Danny & Dave), I owe you both big time

I have decided that I wouldn't be able to cope with that orange metallic Super 60, its just too loud, and after staring at it for a while, made me want to vomit! lol!

I've shopped about and that's the best price I'm gonna get on the Fret-King Super 60's, Not sure whether it'll be the SP or HB just yet, I know they have vintage burst HB's in stock, but the guy at Frets can't be sure on the vintage burst SP's until tomorrow, so if I get one of those, it'll probably be the one I can get in the color I prefer, unless he has both, in which case I'd probably take the SP if its closer to vintage style tone. They're updating the website in next few days as new stock arrived over the weekend, and yes the HB version is only £15 more, being £450.

The only reason I was still considering the Tokai, is because its pretty much exactly what I'm after, only downside is the price! I love the look of it, and the spec, SSS configuration also.

I'm not too bothered about getting a second guitar, I was only considering it because I thought it was a good price. If I could get a SSS strat, and a nice tele though I probably would, but I can always get one in the future. If the Tokai tele's are better than the Fender MIM tele's, and Fret-King Country S, I still might.

After listening to demos of the SP and HB, I think the SP is closer to the vintage tones I'm after, both sounded pretty sweet, the HB sounded much heavier to me though.

Would a SSS pickup combo be that much better for the tones I'm trying to achieve?

Godins have been scrapped I think, I thought the G&L Tribute S-500 sounded better.

What do you guys think of this:

http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1541_Fender_American_Deluxe_Strat_-_Sunset_Metallic.html

Way over my budget though!

I'll get there in the end!
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 9, 2012,
#70
The classic Strat sound comes from a SSS configuration, at least as far as pickups go.

That works in favor of axes like the Tokai, the G&L, and (oddly) that Fret-King Country Squire, as well as certain Godins like the Progression* or Passion RG-3 (which is in the price range of that last Fender).

Tonal flexibility works in favor of the ones that throw different pickups into the mix.

Only you can decide which matters more to you.


* almost bought a used one of these that had been hanging in my local GC for an amazingly long time...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#71
I gotta say, almost every time I try to help someone pick a guitar, I get twinges of G.A.S. myself. Until this thread, I hadn't considered a Fret-King, nor an orange guitar.

Now, however...

I can't get the image of me playing that Super 60 through an Orange out of my head, and I'm not a gigging musician.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#72
Quote by dannyalcatraz
The classic Strat sound comes from a SSS configuration, at least as far as pickups go.

That works in favor of axes like the Tokai, the G&L, and (oddly) that Fret-King Country Squire, as well as certain Godins like the Progression* or Passion RG-3 (which is in the price range of that last Fender).

Tonal flexibility works in favor of the ones that throw different pickups into the mix.

Only you can decide which matters more to you.


+1, that's about it in a nutshell. (FWIW though i'd say that country squire does sound more like a tele than a strat, though the strat pickups get close.)

FWIW, fretking also does the super 60 in an SSS version (though they may not have any at those prices) if you really want the SSS thing.

I'd say the MIJ tokais are probably slightly nicer than the fretkings- but it's close, and as usual with most guitar stuff, it's not as simple as that. The tokais have a very vintage spec (and you'd really need to have tried vintage spec fender-style guitars to see if you like them- if you're used to a modern radius and big frets etc. they can be a culture shock!), and I also have a feeling the trem on the cheaper MIJ tokai strat copies doesn't have a steel block.

I guess, the actual guitar is probably better on the tokais (thought it's close), and the electronics and pickups, but the fretking arguably has slightly better hardware (genuine gotoh and gotoh/wilkinson stuff). But the big difference is that the fretking is a more modern style of guitar, while the tokai is more vintage.

No problem about helping. Just get as much experience yourself with the guitars (and others' opinions, too), because what we like might not be what you like, etc. etc. I'd say it's not all subjective- there are objective quality levels, if you ask me- but at the same time, something that's a "better" guitar will be little consolation if you hate the neck profile, say.
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#73
Evening chaps,

I did look into the orange Amps, one of those paired with the orange super 60 would look awesome, but its just too strong of a colour for me, I prefer to see some grain

I don't think the Orange Amps would work well for my tone anyway would they?

I was about to ask a few more questions about neck profiles and comparisons etc, but Daves already answered most of what I was going to ask, so I wont bother

I'm pretty sure I've made my decision on the guitar, although Danny did get me thinking about the Godin Progression and Passion RG-3.
In the end, it was between the Fret-King Super 60 (SP/HB), and the G&L Tribute S-500. I came to the conclusion that the G&L was closer to what I was looking for, but the Fret-King was better value for money, both being about the same price.
The only thing that made me think twice, was the pickup combination, as I would prefer SSS for better Gilmour/Hendrix style tone. If I get the right Amp though, and a few pedals, hopefully that shouldn't be too much of a problem right?
If I could justify the tonal difference, I may have considered getting both the G&L and Fret-King. Or maybe that American Deluxe Strat, but that just wouldn't be wise on my budget

So, all going to plan, I'll have the Fret-King Super 60 in vintage classic burst, ordered tomorrow! Not 100% sure on pickup configuration just yet, as I don't think they can get SSS, But I'd prefer SSS, SP, or HB, in that order.

I'm pretty sure I'll be getting the Boss RT-20, Fuzz Face, and maybe the TC Electronics Nova delay.

Now, I have to make a decision about an Amp:

Tubemeister 18
Peavey Classic 30
Laney Cub 12R
Traynor YCV50B
Fender Blues Junior

Anymore to consider? That Bugera V22 didn't sound bad at all, considering its cheaper than most of the others I've been looking at, would it be suitable?

Seeing as I'll most likely be getting the Fret-King or G&L for £430, I have a maximum budget of £600 for the Amp, or Amp head and speaker cab.

Also, my guitar and Amp setup are going to be in my room with an awesome spec media PC, and a set of nice 2.0 speakers, so I was thinking, rather than use my shitty Amp for silent practice, would it be worth me getting a good audio interface, headphones and sound card? Doesn't matter about keeping it in my budget, as I have a separate budget for my computer upgrades

Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 10, 2012,
#74
i don't think orange would be my first choice for those tones, but I don't know i'd say they'd be terrible for them, either. it's really up to you. my own feeling any time i've tried an orange has been "that sounds really good but I don't know what I'd use it for", LOL.

just to clarify- the fret king neck style is almost like a modern profile etc., but still with a nod to the vintage style. if that makes sense. the radius is flatter than vintage (around 10" iirc) and the frets are a bit bigger than vintage, but it still has the narrowish vintage fender style neck/nut width, and neither the radius nor fret size is super-modern like, say, an ibanez RG. if that makes sense. But the tokais are pretty much genuine vintage in spec, they're a lot more vintage-feeling than the fret kings.

it's your call on the guitar, if you're happy, I'm happy

SSS- it really depends on which strat tones you use most (and I don't think you can really compensate with amp and pedals... maybe an EQ, but that's still sort of a half-assed fix, i suspect). Middle, Neck/Middle and neck pickups alone will be just as good whether you go HSS, SSS or p90/s/s. It's the bridge pickup alone and bridge/middle where the SSS makes the difference, and if you need those strat tones, then SSS is the way to go. If you don't use those tones much (or only use them occasionally but need the extra power afforded by a p90 or humbucker), then go p90/s/s or HSS.

Regarding the amp- again, it's really up to you. I have my suspicions that the tubemeister isn't all-tube, but i have nothing to base that on other than H&K has form in that department (the edition tube's od channel had some solid state stuff built into it, more or less a distortion/od pedal ) and it seems to have more gain, from clips (I haven't tried it) than it really should have, considering how few tubes it has. But there are at least some ways round it, so as i said, it's only suspicions, not proven. And not being all-tube doesn't necessarily make it a bad amp, either.

Out of the others, I'd probably say the traynor is objectively the best amp, but again, much like the guitar, that's of little consolation if one of the others suits you better. So again, it's really up to you.

I've never tried bugeras. the early versions of their high gain amps went on fire, but apparently they've fixed that. They still have a pretty bad rep for reliability, but from what i hear the v series isn't as bad. Aside from that,

I honestly know nothing about computer based guitar stuff, you're really on your own there
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#75
The Orange really is probably voiced a little to far on the crunchy side to do what you'd want it to. I'd look at Fender, Peavey, Vox, Carvin, or Laney.

And as Dave_MC pointed out, the only difference between the SSS, HSS, AND P90SS setups is what happens when you actually mix the bridge pickup into your tone. If you don't, it won't make a difference, so you could buy a guitar in ANY of those configuration based on price, comfort & aesthetics without worrying about what the bridge pickup does. It might not even look like a Strat. Or a Tele.

For example, another guitar I'm looking at these days is the Richmond Guitars Canada Belmont (possibly with a Bigsby). Richmond is a subsidiary of Godin and this guitar is equipped with a SD '59 HB in the bridge and a pair of SD Lipstick pickups in the middle and neck. Between the lipsticks and the classically voiced HB, its a guitar capable of covering a lot of singlecoil and HB retro sounds*. It's moderately priced, well made...and unfortunately, damn hard to find.


* though with lipsticks, it sounds more like an old Dano or Ric than a Strat.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 10, 2012,
#76
No worries,

The thing is, I'm not exactly used to any particular style of neck, its all gonna feel unfamiliar to me for a while, so I don't know which neck would better suit me to be honest. Would you say one style was easier or more comfortable than the other? I'm not sure on the pros & cons of either.

The same goes for pickups as well lol!

I'm not sure which positions would sound better for what I'm trying to achieve, so I don't know which ones I'm gonna miss out on getting the P90-SS config?

If, by getting the Fret-King, I'm missing out on the tones I want, that could sway me toward getting the G&L with SSS, or being greedy and getting both!
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 10, 2012,
#77
Again, check out some YouTube vids to see what kind of tones you get mixing in a HB or P90.

But if you're really going for Gilmour's tone- or a lot of those OTHER great Strat guys like Clapton, Hendrix and SRV- SSS is probably the way to go...

...assuming they used their bridge position pickups.

If not*, you literally lose nothing by having a different pickup in the bridge, and gain some tonal flexibility. Handy, if you decide to branch out down the road.


* and I don't know, so don't ask me!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#78
Hahaha, GOD DAMMIT! Sigh..........

Well at this point in time, I feel that I must buy the Fret-King, simply because its a pretty awesome deal! Especially now I can get it in vintage burst

Also, I wanna try a G&L, so f*@k it, I think I might get both! Then somewhere down the line, replace the pickups in the G&L with DG-20's if I feel the need to.

Anyways, I think you guys have helped me more than enough, I should be able to make the decision myself by now. The thing is, If I'm gonna spend around £800 on two average guitars, I should probably just get one good one right

In which case it'd be one of the higher end Godins or the Fender American Standard/Deluxe

Knowing what I know now, about what I need, and what I'm trying to achieve, I'm thinking about the American Standard/Deluxe or Classic 60's series again . Its pretty perfect for what I want, and the Deluxe seems like a good deal at £995, cheapest I can find elsewhere is about £1200.
http://www.fretsguitarcentre.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p1541_Fender_American_Deluxe_Strat_-_Sunset_Metallic.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W8j5X9y64M4#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdJbSVPk_fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZysmjZTfGek

Sorry if I'm pissing you off

I'm really shit at making decisions, can you tell?
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 10, 2012,
#79
Don't kill yourself about this: about a year after I sarted taking guitar lessons- and I had been playing a while before that- I decided to get an electric guitar.

It took me a year and a half to pick which to buy...and I bought two (one $500, one high end).

...and a few years later, I bought an amp.

If I were in your shoes:

1) buying 2 guitars, I'd buy two with significantly different pickup configurations, at least one of which would be guaranteed to cover my primary goal (in this case, something with at least 2 singlecoils to cover Gilmour's tone). The other would be my "go nuts" axe for tonal experimentation.

2) buying 1 guitar, I'd make sure I got the neck and middle singlecoil, and then decide how likely I am to need one in the bridge and how many other tonal options I'm likely to want to explore. If my guitar gods all play SSS, its a no brainer. If, OTOH, I like some guys who use P90s or HBs, a guitar with one of those in the bridge might be key in slowing down my G.A.S. for a while.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 10, 2012,
#80
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Don't kill yourself about this: about a year after I sarted taking guitar lessons- and I had been playing a while before that- I decided to get an electric guitar.

It took me a year and a half to pick which to buy...and I bought two (one $500, one high end).

...and a few years later, I bought an amp.


Amen to that brother

And yes, considering what I've learned, and from what I know about my favorite artists, and the tones I enjoy hearing the most, one really good guitar with SSS config would probably be the best option. I didn't want to spend so much but if I'm going to end up buying more down the line or replacing pickups etc. It may turn out better in the long run, also the Fender American Deluxe's hold their value really well.....apparently

Another shit point to make, if I'm willing to part with £1000, there's a whole other selection of guitars I could potentially get!!!!!

So close, but yet so far
Last edited by D3M0N1C at Dec 10, 2012,