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deepfat
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
2,368 IQ
#1
"...ultimately, no one really gives two shits about guitar playing in and of itself, except maybe other guitar players."

Point is, it's about the song makeup. It's taken me long time to finally realize this after 12 years of playing. I was one of those nerds that thought only Vai, Rhoads, Di Meola, etc were the only great guitar players out there. Now, as I've matured in my playing I've learned that they're no more important than Billie Joe Armstrong or Joe Strummer, for example. It all comes down to this; can you or can you not write a good song, that can reach many people, using the guitar as a tool?

Green Day or Nickleback fans couldn't give a crap less about whether they can play a solo using the F# harmonic minor scale. People just want to be able to sing along with a catchy chorus and shake their ass, at the end of the day. Yes, Green Day and especially Nickleback get a ton of shit here at UG, but you cannot deny their fanbase is vast. They must be doing something right in their music.
Last edited by deepfat at Dec 5, 2012,
Wesbanez
Registered Abuser
Join date: Aug 2007
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#2
Cool story bro.
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deepfat
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
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#3
Quote by Wesbanez
Cool story bro.



Pretty profound rebuttal.

Thank you.
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
Join date: Nov 2006
408 IQ
#4
I love guitar and instrumental music, but accept the fact that most people aren't into that kind of stuff. Some people just can't comprehend that.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
Xiaoxi
Registered Luser
Join date: Nov 2007
2,744 IQ
#5
Quote by deepfat

Green Day or Nickleback fans could give a crap less about whether they can play a solo using the F# harmonic minor scale.

fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you

...modes and scales are still useless.


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CryogenicHusk
wannabe guitarist
Join date: Apr 2012
1,005 IQ
#6
Mainstream acceptance doesn't nullify other less widely-accepted artists' merit.

I enjoy Smashing Pumpkins' music a great deal, just like I enjoy Paul Gilbert's music. Depending on the mood I'm in, I'll be craving to listen to a different sound or even a different genre. Liking one doesn't mean you have to stop liking the other, unless you've indeed stopped liking it or never really liked it to begin with.

I've been in the mood for mostly old hip hop and DnB these last couple of weeks... however, today I was in the mood for some Zappa so I gave Joe's Garage a listen from start to finish.
deepfat
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
2,368 IQ
#7
Quote by CryogenicHusk
Mainstream acceptance doesn't nullify other less widely-accepted artists' merit.

I enjoy Smashing Pumpkins' music a great deal, just like I enjoy Paul Gilbert's music. Depending on the mood I'm in, I'll be craving to listen to a different sound or even a different genre. Liking one doesn't mean you have to stop liking the other, unless you've indeed stopped liking it or never really liked it to begin with.

I've been in the mood for mostly old hip hop and DnB these last couple of weeks... however, today I was in the mood for some Zappa so I gave Joe's Garage a listen from start to finish.


Well, for the record Joe's Garage is one of my favorite records.
deepfat
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
2,368 IQ
#8
Quote by Xiaoxi
fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you


Poor grammar on my part. Edited.
Hail
i'm a mean bully
Join date: Jan 2010
431 IQ
#9
yeah that's it i've just come to the conclusion you're trolling i give up
Quote by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Quote by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
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#10
i like your username

but then again, i am scottish
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
deepfat
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
2,368 IQ
#11
Quote by Hail
yeah that's it i've just come to the conclusion you're trolling i give up



Hardly trolling. I just ran across that quote for Corgan and thought it was interesting and worth discussion. Sorry you're offended.
Tempoe
. . . ∆ . . .
Join date: Oct 2008
2,511 IQ
#12
Corgan is right. He plays pretty good actually, seen him do some shred stuff. Anyways, the song writing is more important, the singing is really important if you have it. Thats why Billy was the biggest thing in America in the 90s
CryogenicHusk
wannabe guitarist
Join date: Apr 2012
1,005 IQ
#13
Quote by deepfat
Well, for the record Joe's Garage is one of my favorite records.


Good stuff, mate.
Vlasco
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2007
121 IQ
#14
Perhaps I'm selfish but I play music because I like to do it not so that I can reach other people.
fishmike
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2008
1,063 IQ
#15
I do love catholic girls and their tiny little mustaches

Ive only been playing about 4 years but I learned early on much or most of the brilliance in music is the composition and of course song writing. I mean Josua Tree is made up of mostly 3-4 chord songs. Its good lyrics and Edge with his echo pedal. I remember thinking early on if this stuff is so easy to play why is it considered such a great album?

If Green Day and Nickelback are such fodder why not just form a band like them, make millions and go do more interesting artistic projects?

Not the biggest Pumpkins fan but Corgan has a great and unique sound. Its his.
he of tranquil mind
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
1,793 IQ
#16
Quote by Xiaoxi
fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you

you know, using around a letter looks better than using .
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
griffRG7321
Theory buff
Join date: Sep 2007
999 IQ
#17
Quote by deepfat
It all comes down to this; can you or can you not write a good song, that can reach many people, using the guitar as a tool?

They must be doing something right in their music.


Rebecca Black's 'Friday' is catchy, that doesn't mean it is good.

What it comes down to is this; Write whatever the F*** you wanna write!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JWfuw5rJVg
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#19
Different experts for different purposes. You don't call an electrician to fix your leaky toilet.

If I needed a guitarist to help me write an album with great songs that would be guaranteed to go platinum, I'd work with Billy Joe Armstrong or Chad Kroeger in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even consider working with John Petrucci. Those guys, for the most part, can't write a song to save their lives.

On the other hand, if I wanted a guitarist to shred like a mofo and provide some virtuostic brilliance on my album, the exact opposite would be true.

If I wanted a solo in a song that made people want to drink a lot of beer and lose their sh!t while they played air guitar all night long, I'd get neither of those guys. I'd get Angus.

If I wanted a freaky crazy-@ss solo that sounded like Hendrix on amphetamines, I'd get none of those guys. I'd get Vernon Reid from Living Colour.

That's why I love players like Nuno Bettencourt, Paul Gilbert and Pete Lesperance (Harem Scarem) and Ross Childress (Collective Soul). They can play like demons, but always know when and how to let the song shine through.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Duce180
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2008
350 IQ
#20
Its far harder to write a great song than it is to write a great solo.
Hail
i'm a mean bully
Join date: Jan 2010
431 IQ
#22
Quote by Fourfourforever
Deepfat you're stupid.


you're quickly becoming my favorite poster
Quote by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Quote by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
macashmack
Maskcashmack
Join date: May 2011
3,359 IQ
#23
Quote by Duce180
Its far harder to write a great song than it is to write a great solo.


I think that great solo's aren't as liked by a majority of people who listen to them. To most of the audience, the solo is going to sound like the solo part, which is cool and crazy, but for the most part is just the solo part. It doesn't get as much appreciation as the rest of the song part.

So while it might be easier to write a great solo, they still don't get as much recognition. I think that if they were more enjoyed by the audience, then it would make a difference.
If you listen to popular music nowadays, there aren't any solos in them. I think that goes to show how important solos actually are to songs/people listening to songs - not very.
deepfat
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
2,368 IQ
#24
Quote by Fourfourforever
Deepfat you're stupid.


Why am I stupid? What did I say that wasn't true?
deepfat
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
2,368 IQ
#25
Quote by Hail
you're quickly becoming my favorite poster


Your standards are strikingly low. Especially considering the one sentence response that had nothing to do with the subject at hand.
Xiaoxi
Registered Luser
Join date: Nov 2007
2,744 IQ
#26
Quote by deepfat
What did I say that wasn't true?

well if we're counting from the first word to the very last...I guess all of it..............

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

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Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#27
I agree with him, personally.

We all know Kurt Cobain was a third-rate guitar hack (but a great writer), yet was held up as a guitar hero nonetheless. The only explanation for that is, quite simply, that the general public that aren't guitar players could care less about your technique or about how many notes you can play. All they know is what they think sounds cool.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Xiaoxi
Registered Luser
Join date: Nov 2007
2,744 IQ
#28
Quote by axemanchris
The only explanation for that is, quite simply, that the general public that aren't guitar players could care less about your technique or about how many notes you can play.

NOT AGAIN

WHY WHY WHY WHY

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
Nietsche
Registered Hoover
Join date: May 2009
386 IQ
#29
Quote by axemanchris
but a great writer


But I don't think he is. And I don't think any of the other 'great songwriters' listed so far are really all that. Green Day's music is just as empty and boring as Steve Vai's to me, there's so much more to guitar based music than the two really narrow categories being laid down in this thread.
.
Mainer
UG's Cosmic Revolutionary
Join date: Feb 2009
4,891 IQ
#30
Thing is, Chad Kroeger (douchebag that he may be) isn't that terrible of a guitarist. He may not be the most technical, or the fastest, but he's written some pretty great riffs since 1996. And whenever Nickelback has a song with a guitar solo (or solos on occasion) they've always sounded good and fit the song perfectly. He plays with more feeling than technical skill *shrugs*
mitch311
UG's only guitarist
Join date: Mar 2007
513 IQ
#31
Quote by Mainer
Thing is, Chad Kroeger (douchebag that he may be) isn't that terrible of a guitarist. He may not be the most technical, or the fastest, but he's written some pretty great riffs since 1996. And whenever Nickelback has a song with a guitar solo (or solos on occasion) they've always sounded good and fit the song perfectly. He plays with more feeling than technical skill *shrugs*
Really? I've never heard a good riff by Kroeger. Care to enlighten me with a song?
Quote by John Petrucci
When it comes to practicing, I would spend about 63 hours a day
Quintex
Still Learning
Join date: Feb 2009
140 IQ
#32
Quote by mitch311
Really? I've never heard a good riff by Kroeger. Care to enlighten me with a song?

That is like saying AC/DC never wrote a good riff or that U2 couldn't perform a stadium anthem.

Social media selects targets and people like you play along pretending to be incredibly influential critics and masters of music. Chad Kroeger and the rest of the band have sold in excess of 50 million albums. Do you think you will?

"The band has been criticised over their over-use of themes involving 'strippers, sex, prostitutes, drugs, sex, drinking and sex', for being derivative in the music they create, too often sticking to formula instead of innovating, and being repetitive."

Various sources listed in Wikipedia

If you have ever lived in Alberta or British Columbia, especially in the lower mainland area and Fraser Valley, this would be an accurate description of life around here.

I remember them when they were unknown playing "Leader of Men" acoustic live on the Larry and Willy morning show on CFOX radio after that song was selected to be released on the radio station's "Vancouver Seeds" album that local bands submitted songs for release in a competition. This was in the mid to late 1990s and it was impressive and sounded like a natural progression after grunge started to decline. I will agree that 10 years on, they are now playing a formula and it is disappointing, but it is a formula that works. It definitely lacks creativity but their fans expect that formula and would probably rebel if Nickelback changed it.

Say what you want about Nickelback and what they have become, but people who diss a Nickelback show have never been to a Nickelback show.
If I miss one day of practice, I notice it.
If I miss two days, the critics notice it.
If I miss three days, the audience notices it.

Ingacy Jan Paderewski (1860 - 1941)
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
1,793 IQ
#33
Quote by Xiaoxi
NOT AGAIN

WHY WHY WHY WHY

But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Slashiepie
Banged
Join date: Apr 2011
492 IQ
#34
Quote by Xiaoxi
NOT AGAIN

WHY WHY WHY WHY


You could care less.
Quote by Hail
i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
1,793 IQ
#35
He could care a lot less. Some might say an unhealthy amount.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Dec 10, 2012,
Slashiepie
Banged
Join date: Apr 2011
492 IQ
#36
Quote by Hydra150
He could care a lot less. Some might say an unhealthy amount.


Definitively, otherwise he would not be so non-indifferent.

No, You do not know nothing about nothing so do not sit in the back of the room where you do not belong!
Quote by Hail
i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
Last edited by Slashiepie at Dec 10, 2012,
mitch311
UG's only guitarist
Join date: Mar 2007
513 IQ
#37
Quote by Quintex
That is like saying AC/DC never wrote a good riff or that U2 couldn't perform a stadium anthem.

Social media selects targets and people like you play along pretending to be incredibly influential critics and masters of music. Chad Kroeger and the rest of the band have sold in excess of 50 million albums. Do you think you will?


If you have ever lived in Alberta or British Columbia, especially in the lower mainland area and Fraser Valley, this would be an accurate description of life around here.

I remember them when they were unknown playing "Leader of Men" acoustic live on the Larry and Willy morning show on CFOX radio after that song was selected to be released on the radio station's "Vancouver Seeds" album that local bands submitted songs for release in a competition. This was in the mid to late 1990s and it was impressive and sounded like a natural progression after grunge started to decline. I will agree that 10 years on, they are now playing a formula and it is disappointing, but it is a formula that works. It definitely lacks creativity but their fans expect that formula and would probably rebel if Nickelback changed it.

Say what you want about Nickelback and what they have become, but people who diss a Nickelback show have never been to a Nickelback show.
It was a serious question. I just asked if someone could point me to a good nickelback riff. I like good riffs
Quote by John Petrucci
When it comes to practicing, I would spend about 63 hours a day
Tempoe
. . . ∆ . . .
Join date: Oct 2008
2,511 IQ
#38
I could care a little bit less I suppose
Xiaoxi
Registered Luser
Join date: Nov 2007
2,744 IQ
#39
Quote by Hydra150
SEX.avi

YESSSS

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
1,793 IQ
#40
Is That Mitchell And Webb Look what you use instead of porn, Xiaoxi?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do