steelfool
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2012
144 IQ
#1
Sup, babies.
I'm completely brand new wiff forums and stuff, but I am NOT a beginner with guitar performance and music.

So I have a Schecter Omen-6; not a great guitar, but I can do A LOT with it--had it for years and have loved it.....she mah baby.
I have Dimarzio PAF pro in the neck and a Tone Zone in the bridge. I LOVE the tone zone when it comes to playing jazz and classical, but whenever I play metal it sucks poop, and for some reason I CAN NOT get any good pinch harmonics from it. I used to have EMG's in it and the harmonics were awesome, but ever since I swapped them for the new set, I can't get pinch harmonics if my life depended on it. I know it's usually about the bridge pickup. Tried resoldering to make sure the connection was cute, but nothing.
I'm pretty sure it's just the pickup, so I wanted to know what I can swap the Tone zone out with? I've been looking at a lot of Dimarzio pickups and I see a bunch with really low or high mids. And I'm not too sure which will produce better harmonics. Tone Zones have low highs and high mids, soooo I'm kind of assuming there needs to be some highs in there but I'm not so sure on mids.
I need help. What can I do?
I don't want a metal pickup; I want a versatile pickup. The metal I play is very Progressive so I don't want an ultra hot pickup like the x2n.

Thanks.
jeleopard
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#2
Well, pinch harmonics are usually ALWAYS your technique.

Raise the action a bit? Turn up the gain a bit on your amp? (actives have more gain)
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TuningGamer
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#3
Try your pinch harmonic technique all over the picking section, some 'parts' of the string aren't very capable of giving those nice and nasty harmonics you're probably looking for. Same goes for fretting, some notes are better for pinch harmonics than others.
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nickdohle
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Join date: Feb 2009
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#4
I practiced my pinch harmonics by doing scales all throughout the fret board. Some people have different methods but I use this when my technique slips.

EDIT: Also, did you swap out the electronics (Pots really) when you swapped the pups? I dont know how much effect this would have, but I do know that actives use 25k if im correct wile singles and humbuckers use 250k and 500k respectively. As in most of the time. I know you can use 250k for buckers and 500k for singles with different effects but Ive never heard of anyone using 25k for non actives.
Last edited by nickdohle at Dec 6, 2012,
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
2,967 IQ
#5
the tone zone has killer harmonics, certainly considering how dark it is (i'd say killer full stop, really).

^ good call. yeah you need different value pots for active and passive pickups.
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W4RP1G
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#6
Work on your technique. Super hot pickups do help to bring out the pinch harmonics, but they aren't necessary. You should be able to do them on any pickup, single coil, PAF, P90, it doesn't matter.

If you can't do pinch harmonics unplugged on every string and every fret, then you have some work to do.
KrymsinViking
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2010
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#7
You might have been relying on the actives a little and now you probably just need to clean up your technique a little. Or the pots, it could definately be that.
trashedlostfdup
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#8
Quote by W4RP1G
Work on your technique. Super hot pickups do help to bring out the pinch harmonics, but they aren't necessary. You should be able to do them on any pickup, single coil, PAF, P90, it doesn't matter.

If you can't do pinch harmonics unplugged on every string and every fret, then you have some work to do.


+1 purely technique. practice. i learned mine up and down scales as somebody else said. that was quite a while ago. i never miss.

and if you chose to play the 'different guitar' card, look through my profile, i can do it on every guitar in there. every time. after a while of practice you probably won't have any limitations.
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MrFlibble
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#9
Chance are when you changed pickups you also changed the action marginally. It can be surprising how the smallest change can alter how you need to do pinch harmonics on any given guitar.

So, practise. It certainly is not the pickups.
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steelfool
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2012
144 IQ
#10
Trust me, it's NOT my technique. I've been playing for years.

I can play harmonics on any guitar, but for some reason this specific pickup isn't picking it up.

You know, it can actually be the pots. I didn't change them when I changed from active to passive. Completely forgot about that.

By the way, will this dramatically affect the tone of the Tone Zone or any other pickup that I'm using? Do the actual pots make a difference in sound?
Zoomyrs1
Registered User
Join date: May 2004
11 IQ
#11
Quote by steelfool
Trust me, it's NOT my technique. I've been playing for years.

I can play harmonics on any guitar, but for some reason this specific pickup isn't picking it up.

You know, it can actually be the pots. I didn't change them when I changed from active to passive. Completely forgot about that.

By the way, will this dramatically affect the tone of the Tone Zone or any other pickup that I'm using? Do the actual pots make a difference in sound?



Yes, low circuit impedance can certainly cause the harmonics to be lost in the noise and filtered by the amp.

That carries for any passive pick up.

You should be able to play a pinch with the guitar clean.
steelfool
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2012
144 IQ
#12
Alright, cool. So I'm assuming my pots are 25k since they were for actives? What should I get, 250 or 500?
Zoomyrs1
Registered User
Join date: May 2004
11 IQ
#13
Quote by steelfool
Alright, cool. So I'm assuming my pots are 25k since they were for actives? What should I get, 250 or 500?


That would vary by pickup, shoot the vendors for your pups an e-mail and see what they recommend. This is one of those mileage may vary things.

I can explain how the pick-up works and why that resistance in the pots is important, but its boring.
nickdohle
Let's a go Mario!
Join date: Feb 2009
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#14
Preference. If I am correct, and Im sure I will be corrected if not, 500ks roll off a little more treble and are what most Humbucker players use.

And 250k roll off more mids? Idk I might be getting those two mixed up.

Go for the 500k. I use them in my bucker guitars and like them.


EDIT. Googled it and found this.

1Meg = bright HB...shrill SC
500K = warm HB...bright SC
250K = muddy HB, warm SC

HB = humbucker
SC = single coil

...the HIGHER the pot resistance value, the LESS high-frequencies are attenuated.
...the LOWER the pot resistance value, the MORE high-frequencies are attenduated.
Last edited by nickdohle at Dec 17, 2012,
Zoomyrs1
Registered User
Join date: May 2004
11 IQ
#15
Quote by nickdohle
Preference. If I am correct, and Im sure I will be corrected if not, 500ks roll off a little more treble and are what most Humbucker players use.

And 250k roll off more mids? Idk I might be getting those two mixed up.

Go for the 500k. I use them in my bucker guitars and like them.



Well, due to more magnets humbuckers put out more current, however the amp doesn't want current it wants voltage, so the more impedance you present the higher the voltage generated at the cost of curret. Hence 250k being used more prevalently in singles, less magents, mean you have less current to work with, and if you go to high with the impedance you basically stop the current which means no sound, so there is a balancing act.

All of the potentiometers do is throttle the impedance up and down to generate a bigger or smaller voltage to send to the amp.

With actives it matters less because the current is supplied by the battery, so all of that is done in the pcikup itself.
JAHellraiser
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2009
2,406 IQ
#16
Quote by steelfool
Trust me, it's NOT my technique. I've been playing for years.

I can play harmonics on any guitar, but for some reason this specific pickup isn't picking it up.

You know, it can actually be the pots. I didn't change them when I changed from active to passive. Completely forgot about that.

By the way, will this dramatically affect the tone of the Tone Zone or any other pickup that I'm using? Do the actual pots make a difference in sound?

any guitar you say? so if I gave you an acoustic you could do it on there with no problem?
Zoomyrs1
Registered User
Join date: May 2004
11 IQ
#17
Quote by nickdohle
Preference. If I am correct, and Im sure I will be corrected if not, 500ks roll off a little more treble and are what most Humbucker players use.

And 250k roll off more mids? Idk I might be getting those two mixed up.

Go for the 500k. I use them in my bucker guitars and like them.


EDIT. Googled it and found this.

1Meg = bright HB...shrill SC
500K = warm HB...bright SC
250K = muddy HB, warm SC

HB = humbucker
SC = single coil

...the HIGHER the pot resistance value, the LESS high-frequencies are attenuated.
...the LOWER the pot resistance value, the MORE high-frequencies are attenduated.


Yes, due the reactive nature of coils, the more resistance you stack in the more high frequencies are affected.

....This is why many guitars have "tone caps" which are capacitors that are added in-line to balance the tone back out.
Zoomyrs1
Registered User
Join date: May 2004
11 IQ
#18
Quote by JAHellraiser
any guitar you say? so if I gave you an acoustic you could do it on there with no problem?


Unless it has nylon or silkwound strings, yes you can pinch on an acoustic. It may sound a bit funny, but a pinch harmonic is a byproduct of string length and nodes along that length.

Not the nature of the guitar really.
steven seagull
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Join date: Oct 2006
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#19
I'd be tempted to go for 1 meg pots with the Tone Zone, for me it's a bit too muddy and lacking in top end with 500 meg pots, having said that there's plenty of other players out there who like it fine.
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steelfool
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2012
144 IQ
#20
Quote by steven seagull
I'd be tempted to go for 1 meg pots with the Tone Zone, for me it's a bit too muddy and lacking in top end with 500 meg pots, having said that there's plenty of other players out there who like it fine.


Yea, I found out first hand that it was a little muddy, especially when playing distorted chords, 'cause I do that a lot with progressive metal stuff. It was free though, so not like I lost or regret anything. It's a FANTASTIC pickup for jazz though (especially when combined with the neck pickup), probably classical too.

I want to be red.

Alright, looks like I'm gown have to ayusk dem people for pot recommendations.

Thanks to those who actually helped.
Last edited by steelfool at Dec 17, 2012,
steven seagull
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Join date: Oct 2006
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#21
I'd agree with it being good for jazz, I find it to be a very brittle sounding, in your face pickup - it's bassy but I wouldn't say it was warm.

It definitely performs better a little further away from the strings than you'd normally expect (at least 5mm) so the sound can breathe a bit and getting the balance between the treble and bass heights can be fiddly but even then personally i was never entirely happy with it which is why I was toying with the idea of 1 meg pots.
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JAHellraiser
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Join date: Jun 2009
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#22
Quote by Zoomyrs1
Unless it has nylon or silkwound strings, yes you can pinch on an acoustic. It may sound a bit funny, but a pinch harmonic is a byproduct of string length and nodes along that length.

Not the nature of the guitar really.
I know that. I was asking him if his technique is good enough to do it, no amps or pickups to help get the sound across easier.