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Boonnoo666
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Join date: Apr 2011
80 IQ
#1
Hi. This is my little discussion on Gibson, feel free to join.
I have been rather annoyed with Gibson wiping out every other company making a classic shaped V/Explorer with a Lawsuit, however when Dean build guitars in their shape with THEIR original Futura headstock design, they turn a blind eye.
Why am I annoyed by this?
I love the Explorer and Flying V shapes but do not trust Dean from what I have heard on here.
Why not buy Gibson or Epiphone?
Because their designs and specs do not appeal to me, yet I like discontinued (Lawsuit) guitars such as ESP explorers.

I hope there is someone who agrees with me, feel free to add your opinion.
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#2
So you don't like the original Explorer/V design, but you like the lawsuit copies which are the same design with a different name on the headstock?

Where's the point?
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MrFlibble
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#3
Companies have to chase up any copyright infringement. If they don't, even a single case, they lose the rights to that subject. That's simply how copyright law works, in all sectors and in virtually every country.

It's not up to a company like Gibson to say "oh, these guys are just a small company, we'll let them off". If they knowingly let one company infringe on their property, every company can start doing it. Same for Fender, PRS, ESP, Ibanez, Carvin, Mayones, Dean... hell, Agile, Tokai, literally any and every company. If you want to maintain rights to your property then you have to take action against anyone that unlawfully uses it.

As far as the Futura headstock and Dean go, the headstocks are sufficiently different. Same reason ESP can make EC guitars and why there's a million companies making Strat-like guitars without being sued by Fender. If you change the design enough, it can be considered a whole new thing.

In fact the ESP Eclipse guitars ar a perfect example. There are models that are just different enough for them to make and sell in Japan, but not in Europe or North America and Canada. Then there are others which are changed a little more again to be sold in the EU, but still not America. Then there ar a whole bunch more of ECs which are changed yet again, so they can be sold in America without infringing on Gibson's patents. Hence, Japan has ECs with full thickness bodies, trapezoid inlays and four controls while America can't get all three features in one.
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jkielq91
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#4
Business is business. If Gibson let other companies copy their designs their business will never last.

Deans designs are unique enough to be seen as original.

Making a guitar unique can be as simple as adjusting a few angels a little.

But guitars like you want do exist. You just need to look for longer.

Flying V - Schecter, DBZ, boutique brands, hammer.

Explorer - Ibanez, Epiphone prophercy and artist signatures, Hammer, boutique brands.
Last edited by jkielq91 at Dec 11, 2012,
Mephaphil
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#5
/thread.
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Boonnoo666
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#6
Quote by JesusCrisp
So you don't like the original Explorer/V design, but you like the lawsuit copies which are the same design with a different name on the headstock?

Where's the point?


*Facepalm* xD
I love the original design and the lawsuit copies. I'm annoyed at the way Gibson go and lawsuit but when Dean use Gibson's patented design, they turn a blind eye.

Quote by Mephaphil
/thread

Meaning?...

Quote by jkielq9
Business is business. If Gibson let other companies copy their designs their business will never last.

Deans designs are unique enough to be seen as original.

Making a guitar unique can be as simple as adjusting a few angels a little.

But guitars like you want do exist. You just need to look for longer.

Flying V - Schecter, DBZ, boutique brands, hammer.

Explorer - Ibanez, Epiphone prophercy and artist signatures, Hammer, boutique brands.


Flying V - DBZ aren't making the original shape and Hamer shut down
Explorer - Didn't Ibanez discontinue the Destroyer? (As I said, Epiphone don't appeal to me) and as I said about Hamer before. Kaput.
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Last edited by Boonnoo666 at Dec 11, 2012,
Mephaphil
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#7
Quote by Boonnoo666
*Facepalm* xD
I love the original design and the lawsuit copies. I'm annoyed at the way Gibson go and lawsuit but when Dean use Gibson's patented design, they turn a blind eye.


The point is; Its not a patented design otherwise they'd take them to court straight away. It's about protecting intellectual property. The Dean design is different enough due to headstock etc to be considered unique.

Why would Gibson turn a blind eye to Dean?
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Mephaphil
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#8
Quote by Boonnoo666

Meaning?...


Meaning you asked a question that wasn't properly researched as the answer is quite obvious.

There's no conspiracy. The company that invented the design need to protect their design or they'll lose the rights to it and eventually lose their brand recognition for said designs.
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Boonnoo666
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#9
Quote by Mephaphil
The point is; Its not a patented design otherwise they'd take them to court straight away. It's about protecting intellectual property. The Dean design is different enough due to headstock etc to be considered unique.

Why would Gibson turn a blind eye to Dean?


I have no idea. Here's the patent.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Gibson_Explorer_patent.png

And I was asking what the meaning of "/thread" was.
Quote by treborillusion
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Last edited by Boonnoo666 at Dec 11, 2012,
T00DEEPBLUE
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#10
Quote by Boonnoo666
*Facepalm* xD
I love the original design and the lawsuit copies. I'm annoyed at the way Gibson go and lawsuit but when Dean use Gibson's patented design, they turn a blind eye.

If somebody made money off what you designed yourself, you would sue them too.

Also, the reason Gibson doesn't sue Dean is because the headstock design isn't the same.
Quote by Boonnoo666
And I was asking what the meaning of "/thread" was.

It means that the thread topic is over because you have your answer.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 11, 2012,
digman50
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#11
Quote by Boonnoo666
I have no idea. Here's the patent.


And I was asking what the meaning of "/thread" was.


That's a Futura not an Explorer
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Mephaphil
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#12
Quote by Boonnoo666
I have no idea. Here's the patent.


And I was asking what the meaning of "/thread" was.


Ah lol. It means I thought that the thread was won.

It's a memetic type thing related to html. /win /thread etc. The backslash represents... erm.. The end of something... When you enter italics or bold or a table into code and you end the current command you use a backslash.

The easiest way to get it is probably to learn html lol.
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Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 11, 2012,
Boonnoo666
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#13
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
If somebody made money off what you designed yourself, you would sue them too.

Also, the reason Gibson doesn't sue Dean is because the headstock design isn't the same.


Okay, that's true. Tbf this thread wasn't really about criticising Gibson as some may have interpreted. It was just me getting annoyed. Happens a lot because I'm an Aspie.
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#14
Quote by Boonnoo666
Okay, that's true. Tbf this thread wasn't really about criticising Gibson as some may have interpreted. It was just me getting annoyed. Happens a lot because I'm an Aspie.

The title of the thread makes that clear.
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Mephaphil
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#15
Quote by Boonnoo666
Okay, that's true. Tbf this thread wasn't really about criticising Gibson as some may have interpreted. It was just me getting annoyed. Happens a lot because I'm an Aspie.


My turn. What's an Aspie? Something to do with Aspen? And why would that make you annoyed?
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Boonnoo666
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#16
Quote by Mephaphil
My turn. What's an Aspie? Something to do with Aspen? And why would that make you annoyed?

Aspie is a nick-name for people with Asperger's Syndrome (EG: Me). It's a form of Autism, look it up on the interwebz.
Quote by treborillusion
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#17
Quote by Boonnoo666
Aspie is a nick-name for people with Asperger's Syndrome (EG: Me). It's a form of Autism, look it up on the interwebz.


Ah Ok. I'm aware of Aspergers Syndrome.

I thought maybe it had something to do with a guitar company based near Aspen... /doh. My mistake lol, sorry.
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Charvel1995
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#18
I forsee this thread being closed in the near future... For some odd reason..

Anyhow, Why not buy Gibson or Epiphone?

Because there's variety and each company making a V model does it differntly, differnt strokes for different folks.
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#19
Quote by Charvel1995
I forsee this thread being closed in the near future... For some odd reason..

Anyhow, Why not buy Gibson or Epiphone?

Because there's variety and each company making a V model does it differntly, differnt strokes for different folks.


People generally hate the man. If it's deserved and often it is then fine, but Fender and Gibson have given people the ability to create some of the greatest works of art known to man. They haven't done anything that bad to be regarded in such a way when compared to many other companies. Plus a large amount of their products are made in America where you have better labour conditions. I can't speak for their Mexican made or Squier or Epiphone affiliated products. I'm not naive enough to think they get paid the same and if not, improvements should be made.

Leo Fender and Lester Paul are two people I admire(d) greatly. Sure, the crazy people who run the company do some weird stuff sometimes (LP SG?) but again, the quality of these products are up there with some of the best.

You play a US Standard or a LP Standard/Traditional and it just screams quality. Are they over priced? Possibly. But you're owning a price of history in a way. You can get products similar cheaper, but they ain't the same. Maybe it doesn't justify the price difference but that's subjective.

My LP is the best guitar I've played. Ever. I played Standards, Traditional Pros, PRS, and that one was the best. It was cheaper after I haggled and it was totally worth the money.

Satisfaction is the only thing that matters. I'm satisfied
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Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


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Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 11, 2012,
T00DEEPBLUE
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#20
Gibsons are expensive guitars, but i really like them because they build their guitars in a way that is very faithful to traditional construction methods and to me, that is an appeal. Each guitar is truly unique and when you find the one that you really like, you just cannot beat them.
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Charvel1995
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#21
Satisfaction is all that matters and I totally agree.

Fender and Gibson both have overpriced guitars, although I prefer Fender to Gibson.

Again, different strokes for different folks. I prefer Jackson Rhoads style Vs to Gibson Vs, and Charvel Strats/Superstrats to Fender.
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#22
I wouldn't even call Gibson and Fender overpriced.
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Charvel1995
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#23
30 grand for a guitar is a little overpriced in my opinion. (Gibson)

There are some guitars with enormous price tags that can't justify it.
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#24
Quote by Charvel1995
30 grand for a guitar is a little overpriced in my opinion. (Gibson)

There are some guitars with enormous price tags that can't justify it.



Because they all cost $30k... Gibson also have some of the best value guitars on the market.
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#25
Quote by MrFlibble
Same reason ESP can make EC guitars and why there's a million companies making Strat-like guitars without being sued by Fender. If you change the design enough, it can be considered a whole new thing.


Actually, Fender did sue a number of companies for producing SLOs (Strat-Like Objects). The court recently ruled against them, saying that the Strat body design wasn't sufficiently distinctive to warrant a copyright.

As for the Dean / Gibson headstock question, Gibson offered the "V" headstock for only a short period of time, and they've argued in other lawsuits that the "moustache" headstock is the headstock trademark for whcih the company is famous, so they couldn't win a lawsuit against Dean. But you are absolutely right: if a company allows one other manufacturer to copy and sell their design without challenge, then they have all but lost any chance to protect that particular design.
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Charvel1995
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#26
Quote by Tom 1.0
Because they all cost $30k... Gibson also have some of the best value guitars on the market.


I didn't say that, nor did I mean for it to come off that way.

They do have some pretty great value guitars. But again, they do have guitars that are really overpriced.
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griffin888
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#27
A product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. I don't even really care for Gibsons, but that's besides the point. Fact is they sell at the prices you call overpriced.
nickdohle
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#28
The 30k guitars are for rich hardcore collectors who have the money to spend on a guitar and handwired amp combo thats going to get played every year once. On Christmas. Or New years. Or even never.

Ive played a lot of gibsons. And the more expensive ones do often times feel more solid than the cheap ones. But compare a studio to just about any guitar in the price range. Yea, you dont get the fancy binding. You dont get the fancy coil taps all the time. But what you do get is a workhorse of a guitar thats going to last you a lifetime and will sound great for years to come.
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#29
Quote by Charvel1995
I didn't say that, nor did I mean for it to come off that way.

They do have some pretty great value guitars. But again, they do have guitars that I can't afford or justify buying and therefore call overpriced.

fixed.
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#30
Quote by nickdohle
The 30k guitars are for rich hardcore collectors who have the money to spend on a guitar and handwired amp combo thats going to get played every year once. On Christmas. Or New years. Or even never.

Ive played a lot of gibsons. And the more expensive ones do often times feel more solid than the cheap ones. But compare a studio to just about any guitar in the price range. Yea, you dont get the fancy binding. You dont get the fancy coil taps all the time. But what you do get is a workhorse of a guitar thats going to last you a lifetime and will sound great for years to come.


I had a Studio, a good one. Then I played a bunch of Standards and Traditional. I noticed I quality difference.

But you're right. Great workhorse guitar.
Quote by Shredwizard445
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Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


resum
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#31
Quote by Mephaphil
Ah lol. It means I thought that the thread was won.

It's a memetic type thing related to html. /win /thread etc. The backslash represents... erm.. The end of something... When you enter italics or bold or a table into code and you end the current command you use a backslash.

The easiest way to get it is probably to learn html lol.



/ != backslash
Mephaphil
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#32
Quote by resum
/ != backslash


Okay!
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Doogy-Style
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#33
Quote by MrFlibble
Companies have to chase up any copyright infringement. If they don't, even a single case, they lose the rights to that subject. That's simply how copyright law works, in all sectors and in virtually every country.

It's not up to a company like Gibson to say "oh, these guys are just a small company, we'll let them off". If they knowingly let one company infringe on their property, every company can start doing it. Same for Fender, PRS, ESP, Ibanez, Carvin, Mayones, Dean... hell, Agile, Tokai, literally any and every company. If you want to maintain rights to your property then you have to take action against anyone that unlawfully uses it.



Are you sure about you're saying there ? I just got out of my copyright law exam, and it seems to me that you are wrong on that matter...
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zl1288
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#34
Quote by Doogy-Style
Are you sure about you're saying there ? I just got out of my copyright law exam, and it seems to me that you are wrong on that matter...


You are correct, "Use it or lose it" with copyrights is a myth. He may have been getting confused with trademarks.

Quote by griffin888
A product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. I don't even really care for Gibsons, but that's besides the point. Fact is they sell at the prices you call overpriced.

A point many seem to overlook!

As for Gibson's use of lawsuits, I have absolutely no problem with it. If anything, I feel like there is a lot of leniency given to guitar makers (Look at all the strat/LP type guitars out there).
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#35
Quote by Boonnoo666
I have been rather annoyed with Gibson wiping out every other company making a classic shaped V/Explorer with a Lawsuit


can you cite the lawsuit(s) you speak of?

"threats" of lawsuits and lawsuits are vastly different things.

kthxbai.
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#36
Quote by Doogy-Style
Are you sure about you're saying there ? I just got out of my copyright law exam, and it seems to me that you are wrong on that matter...
He is wrong but pointing it out to him typically makes it worse for all of us..
Boonnoo666
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#37
Quote by gregs1020
can you cite the lawsuit(s) you speak of?

"threats" of lawsuits and lawsuits are vastly different things.

kthxbai.


I don't know of Lawsuit threats but for example there's ESP, I believe Jackson used the Explorer and Flying V shapes. So did Ibanez.
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#38
Quote by Doogy-Style
Are you sure about you're saying there ? I just got out of my copyright law exam, and it seems to me that you are wrong on that matter...


Correct. Designs are trademarked; written things (including music, which is recorded for copyright on paper) are copyrighted. Guitar companies sue knock-off manufacturers over certain design elements that are either trademarked, or those that they believe should be trademarked, as Fender did recently with the Stratocaster body design. Part of the problem with the law is that is is often very difficult to get a trademark registered, whereas with copyright, you just have to create the written material and you have copyright (you had still better register it, though).
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#39
Yes, fair enough, got copyright and trademark the wrong way around. Shoot me.

Quote by Boonnoo666
Okay, that's true. Tbf this thread wasn't really about criticising Gibson as some may have interpreted. It was just me getting annoyed. Happens a lot because I'm an Aspie.
Quote by Boonnoo666
Aspie is a nick-name for people with Asperger's Syndrome (EG: Me). It's a form of Autism, look it up on the interwebz.

Not wanting to get particularly off-topic here, but please do not use that term. It's also technically incorrect to say it is a ''form'' of autism. I'm not going to start a massive lecture on the subject here, just suffice to say I've spent far too many hours and years with children diagnosed with Asperger's and their families - not to mention, myself - to let that slide. You do not say 'Aspie'. Just don't.
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Mephaphil
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#40
Well it's recognised to be on the Autistic Spectrum by pretty much every western neurological and psychiatric body going. It is regarded as a ASD by most health care organisations and some are only just slowly moving away from it while others are not.

Besides, it's not a negative thing. Unless for some reason you find it to be. There's a lot of evidence to suggest it IS a ASD, with less to suggest its not. But the research for the 'not' isn't that old. Still, it's still regarded by lots of people to be ASD, so it's a matter of opinion right now.

http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-and-asperger-syndrome-an-introduction/what-is-asperger-syndrome.aspx

I'm aware that some people view Aspergers as a variation of normal as opposed to an ASD but it's an opinion, and they both have evidence based research to back them up.

If someone with Aspergers wants to refer to a condition that might have dominated their life in largely a negative way in an informal way, then that's up to them. I'm not aware of any negative connotations of the term he used. It's not a term I'm aware of and I'm very much aware of ASDs and Aspergers. If there is something I should know about the term I'm interested to know.



Perhaps this discussion is suited to another sub forum, but I couldn't resist. It's kinda linked indirectly to my job and directly to my personal life.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 12, 2012,
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