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TommyGunUk
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Join date: Aug 2009
40 IQ
#1
Rightey-o, first thread ever.

People constantly talk about how shredding take much less skill than it does to play slowly. For instance, i saw a few videos of people playing covers of songs by Yngwie Malmsteen, as i plan on learning it for part of my studies. A recurring comment consisted basically of "Good technique, not enough soul". Typically, the soul in a person's playing for me would be their facial expressions (obviously) and the amount of vibrato and feel they have for the instrument, and how comfortable and natural the player looks when they play. These people play magnificently and display many if not all of these skills. And the same comment-ers criticise the players themselves, despite their skill and obvious familiarity with the instrument.

Am i missing something here?
chronowarp
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Join date: Feb 2012
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#2
That's funny, because Yngwie is pretty the opposite of "no soul".
I wouldn't use YouTube comments as any form of measuring stick for how most people, of any demographic, think.

The retards on YouTube are primarily 13 year old kids who think they play bl00z, and say stupid shit like, "BB king could say more with 3 notes than yngwie could say with 3000." You need to learn to filter this garbage out.

Music is all about what makes sense in a particular musical situation. Sometimes pulling the reigns back and keeping it is relevant to the song and genre. Other times, a song screams for some fast, highly technical climax.
TommyGunUk
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2009
40 IQ
#3
Quote by chronowarp
That's funny, because Yngwie is pretty the opposite of "no soul".
I wouldn't use YouTube comments as any form of measuring stick for how most people, of any demographic, think.

The retards on YouTube are primarily 13 year old kids who think they play bl00z, and say stupid shit like, "BB king could say more with 3 notes than yngwie could say with 3000." You need to learn to filter this garbage out.

Music is all about what makes sense in a particular musical situation. Sometimes pulling the reigns back and keeping it is relevant to the song and genre. Other times, a song screams for some fast, highly technical climax.



I agree with this dude, and i was gunna pitch the 13 year old kid thing if it wasnt for the possible blues cannon being rammed up my buttocks
francesco18
galloping E|-0-0-0-0
Join date: Apr 2011
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#4
To each his own, it's just that when I hear those superfast trebley as hell runs of 16th notes at 200 bpm I want to cut my ears off, And the problem it's not a lack of soul, on the contrary I find his music very cheesy and ''melodramatic'' (especially those reverbing 80s vocals...brr). I've the same problem with Steve Vai; I don't mind technical players (i'm pretty much a Buckethead groupie) but those 80s shredders are often too cheesy and over the top for my taste.
Slashiepie
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#5
Both have no soul, only modal music does.
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TommyGunUk
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Join date: Aug 2009
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#6
Quote by Slashiepie
Both have no soul, only modal music does.



Okay, Whats a mode? I heard Vai uses the Dorian mode alot
Hydra150
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#7
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
JimDawson
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#8
Both.

/thread
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mdc
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#9
Quote by Slashiepie
Both have no soul, only modal music does.

Dude, just piss off back to GT where you belong.
macashmack
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#10
Quote by TommyGunUk
Okay, Whats a mode? I heard Vai uses the Dorian mode alot


Here we go....

A mode is a scale that starts on a different note than the regular major (ionian) or natural minor (Aeolian). So lets look at that based off of C.

C Ionian: C D E F G A B
D Dorian: D E F G A B C
E phrygian: E F G A B C D
F lydian: F G A B C D E
G Mixolydian: G A B C D E F
A Aeolian: A B C D E F G
B Locrian: B C D E F G A

So lets take a nice diatonic chord progression. It'll be a I-IV-V7 in C (So the chords will be C-F-G7)

Over the C you will play C Ionian
Over the F you will play F Lydian
Over the G7 you wil play.... That's Right! G Mixo!


That's Modes for you! Now go try them out and see which you like the best. Modes are 100% the way to make yourself a better guitar player. Also, it's a great way to impress your friends with your immense music theory knowledge!

(Some guys here are going to try to convince you that i am wrong. These guys have not yet mastered teh modes and haven't yet battled the dragon in the crystal castle, and banged the princess with her huge boobs. Don't listen to them, they are trying to lead you astray in your quest).

Send my check in the mail.
JimDawson
I heard you like lasers?
Join date: Feb 2011
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#12
Quote by TommyGunUk
Okay, Whats a mode? I heard Vai uses the Dorian mode alot


I sat here for like five minutes trying to think of a great way to troll this post.

Yeah... I've got nothing...
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ibanez1511
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2008
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#13
one perspective is the soul of the music is bigger than the song and composer themselves.
To a lot of people 'Shred.' guitar is a gimic.
When I think of the 'golden age of shred.' i think of the 80's which many people now associate with material excess and lack of soul.
on the other hand you have a blues master ... say B.B King. he might say less is more? but his appeal comes more from the life he has lived, his guitar tells his story.

The 80's movie crossroad attempts to address the question the top seeder asked.
The answer in the film was , there is no secret song/formula, you have to write it yourself. and i believe this applies here as well.
CryogenicHusk
wannabe guitarist
Join date: Apr 2012
90 IQ
#14
Quote by JimDawson
Yeah... I've got nothing...


macashmack's got your back

edit: added hoping to contribute something

Quote by ibanez1511
The 80's movie crossroad attempts to address the question the top seeder asked.
The answer in the film was , there is no secret song/formula, you have to write it yourself. and i believe this applies here as well.


I liked that movie. I also took it as meaning "Play what comes from your heart, regardless of the situation." which is kind of what you said but different words...

Don't open if you haven't watched the movie:
I thought of this when Eugene fell back on his recently ignored years of classical training to rip out a Paganini-sounding solo, which won him the duel. Also, sure Jack Butler sold his soul to play the blues/blues rock/blues metal and could kick ass at it, but apparently couldn't keep up very well when playing other styles because his focus was too specific.


Movie itself, referring, in this case, not to the story portrayed by it, was also good to show that different styles are different and should always coexist peacefully because no one style is better than the other

I mean it was Ry Cooder, Steve Vai, and William Kanengiser (excellent classical guitarist), working together in the movie off-screen, and on the soundtrack and even on-screen during some scenes where they zoomed in on the hands. Whenever somebody treats music like a competition (I can play x nps and he can't or w player has more soul than y player), it just strikes me as childish insecurity or hidden jealousy.

Just listen to music and have fun playing what you want to play, and it will come from your soul. As long as you realize your shortcomings and constantly address them, you will sound good. Of course there will always be the haters, regardless of the style you play, but they can just deal with it and go outside for a smoke during your set or whatever.
Last edited by CryogenicHusk at Dec 13, 2012,
Vlasco
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2007
10 IQ
#15
Soul means something different to each person. For example, I don't factor facial expressions in.
HotspurJr
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Join date: Jul 2011
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#16
Quote by TommyGunUk
Typically, the soul in a person's playing for me would be their facial expressions (obviously) and the amount of vibrato and feel they have for the instrument, and how comfortable and natural the player looks when they play.
Am i missing something here?


Yes.
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
Join date: Nov 2006
10 IQ
#18
Soul vs Speed and Modes? sfaspfoawnf;awkfja;slkfams;flkasf;dsklfs
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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Hail
i'm a mean bully
Join date: Jan 2010
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#19
mac you're a ballsy little shit aren't you
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Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#20
can we close this thread?

please?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
chronowarp
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2012
10 IQ
#21
Here's how I calculate emotion. E=emotion, b=bends, t=average length of bends, L=length of musical work

E=b(t)^2/L
Last edited by chronowarp at Dec 13, 2012,
Vlasco
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2007
10 IQ
#22
Your formula is flawed as it does not factor in the condition of the instrument - the more beat up, the more emotion.
food1010
Bassist
Join date: Jun 2007
285 IQ
#23
Quote by Vlasco
Soul means something different to each person. For example, I don't factor facial expressions in.
That's because anyone can make facial expressions. It doesn't mean you "really feel the music, man." It means you make faces. That's it. If you got feel, you got feel.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
macashmack
Maskcashmack
Join date: May 2011
170 IQ
#24
Quote by Hail
mac you're a ballsy little shit aren't you


It's quite easy to be ballsy to a bunch of strangers while on my couch
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#26
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
AeolianWolf
Tonal Vigilante
Join date: Jul 2009
20 IQ
#27
dude what the shit

i'm gone for like 15 hours and this shit comes up
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
hamza hashmi
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
90 IQ
#28
simplicity or shred? ..............how about a bit of both!!! yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaah. anyway listen to paul gilbert's fuzz universe or charlie parras procrastination, if you want melodic passages and shredding together.
MaggaraMarine
Slapping the bass.
Join date: Oct 2009
1,213 IQ
#29
The thing is, it's hard to make simple sound good. You can just shred scales and arpeggios up and down but when you play slowly, you must really have good melodies in your solo. That's why people say it's harder to play slowly. Playing fast needs a good technique but playing slowly needs a good sense of melody. Which is better? It's up to you. If you like shredding, OK and if you like playing slow, OK. It's all about the song. If a thrash metal song had a slow blues solo, it wouldn't fit the song at all. In that case a crazy shred solo would fit the song the best. But play a slow ballad and then shred a crazy solo, it would ruin the whole song.

And TS, if you didn't notice there's a lot of trolling in this thread (especially comments about modes).
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10 IQ
#30
Ever read a good book? That book that gets your imagination flowing and makes you feel what the characters are feeling and wish that the book never ends.
Soul in music is the same, it's just emotion, now different people can express their emotions differently. It's not just that weird almost-having-a-heart-attack-face that many blues players make, some show it, others don't. Some of them shred, others don't.
You can see more soul in their songwriting than in their way of playing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7GnAq6Znw

Now I'm going to let you have fun with the modes trolls
Hail
i'm a mean bully
Join date: Jan 2010
60 IQ
#31
Quote by AeolianWolf
dude what the shit

i'm gone for like 15 hours and this shit comes up


i think we've had 2 troll threads deleted in a very short time-span

i'd rather deal with guitarmunky than everyone being tongue-in-cheek, and i'd rather we went back to having the traffic of a snail orgy than have half the threads go progressively from shit to even more annoying shit
Quote by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

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I want to be Hail when I grow up.
food1010
Bassist
Join date: Jun 2007
285 IQ
#33
@Raster's post: Holy mid-song tuning.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
AeolianWolf
Tonal Vigilante
Join date: Jul 2009
20 IQ
#34
Quote by Hail
i think we've had 2 troll threads deleted in a very short time-span

i'd rather deal with guitarmunky than everyone being tongue-in-cheek, and i'd rather we went back to having the traffic of a snail orgy than have half the threads go progressively from shit to even more annoying shit


me, too. GM was great, man. sure, we would always butt heads, but it was intellectual. things were discussed, ideas were shared. and although it often got too heated (and occasionally personal), it was never about trolling. looking back on it now, i can really appreciate those arguments.

on topic, if you think shredding and simplicity are mutually exclusive you're fooling yourself.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
TommyGunUk
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2009
40 IQ
#35
Some of this stuff is really insightful. Im liking alot of the responses, except for the crappy trolls, of course. Keep it coming
91RG350
At least Microsoft cared
Join date: May 2011
50 IQ
#36
modes
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
losing battle
UG's Trollestia
Join date: Feb 2007
250 IQ
#37
Worrying about modes for a solo is a complete waste of time understanding counterpoint other means of multi voiced harmony will get you a hell of a lot further with a lot less effort. Learn the scale and the chords, then you can use notes outside the chord (neighboring and passing) and and with some knowledge of the key add in outside notes as you guessed it neighboring or passing. As for speed vs. Soul it really depends on what ypu want to do with a song.
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Zoomyrs1
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#38
I noted that Yngwie Malmsteen can play fast as hell, but he DOES play fast as hell simply for the sake of playing fast as hell. I never could stand that about him. John Petrucci can play fast as hell also, but doesn't have to do it EVERY time he picks up the guitar.

To me its a matter of style. Making a single measure stretch all the way across the page (or more) doesn't always do a lot for the song.

Some guys get that some don't.
Freepower
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Join date: Feb 2004
479 IQ
#39
Shredding or Simplicity?


Most shredding is pretty simple. Just fast.

Am i missing something here?


Yeah, some people don't like lots of notes. Some do. Don't get worked up about it either way, it's all music and you can't change their mind anyway.
primusfan
Conspiracy Music Theorist
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836 IQ
#40
it's more about feel and tone than "soul." lots of guitarists I know are technically gifted but can't "hear" or play musically. it's really bizarre. just playing the note doesn't make it sound right. the notes are like 30% of the battle. lots of time shredding is making up for a lack of phrasing ability. you should have the technical facility to play fast but only wield it when it fits. you can play guitar (or any instrument) without playing music. unfortunately thats what I see a lot of.
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