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WCPhils
UnBanned
Join date: Sep 2010
731 IQ
#1
So with all of the horrible mass shooting happening throughout the US in the last year I've been thinking about the issue of gun control a lot.

I used to be on the fence leaning towards the right to own guns, but not as much anymore.

I really see no reason why we as a country should have such easy access to guns. Especially high grade automatic weapons.

I'm not really for an all out ban. I just think laws should be much stricter and like I said, I see no reason to own automatic weapons.


Where do you stand on the issue?


And please people, for the sake of discussion, keep it at least sort of civil.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
Last edited by WCPhils at Dec 14, 2012,
JohnnyGenzale
Bitter old sod
Join date: May 2008
292 IQ
#2
More guns = higher potential risk of shootings.

Availability + people going mental (as happens) = not a good combination.

And the criminals will get weapons either way, I'm more scared of the "random dude on the street" having a gun to protect himself than the through-and-through criminals. Becuase the latter are atleast being criminal and rational about it. The random dude with a gun is absolutely impossible to get a grip on and what he/she is capable of.

I'm as much against it as you can be.

You see, I'm liberal but to a degree I want everybody to be free
But if you think I'd let Barry Goldwater move in next door and marry my daughter you must think I'm crazy.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at Dec 14, 2012,
Johnny_Ibanez
ʎuuɥoſ
Join date: Mar 2009
1,251 IQ
#3
There's already a thread for this on the first page lol.

But naw.

According to this 270,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 9/11. Why don't you get it?
lolmnt
Earth of the Butt
Join date: Sep 2006
4,159 IQ
#5
Our culture of violence is really the biggest issue.
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Quote by Bob_Sacamano
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Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
Section 5
How YOU doin'?
Join date: Jan 2008
374 IQ
#6
There is the argument that the state controlling what one can and cannot own is a slippery slope. But when it's to do with such dangerous and lethal objects, I really think there should be a lot, lot more control over who can own guns.

^270,000 killed since 9/11. That says it all really, shocking statistic.
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jonathan666666
UG's Boyscout
Join date: Oct 2008
122 IQ
#7
Copy and pasted from the other thread
The U.K. is an Island. It is easier to regulate what's coming and going.
Many people protect themselves with firearms, the media just chooses not to discuss it.
I was taught to respect guns. I haven't killed anyone. when kids are taught by shitty parents that guns are for killing people that owe you money, or to use if your hoe doesn't listen to you, they're probably going to use them for evil.
Even if guns are banned, there's over one billion rounds of ammunition in the U.S.A. If a criminal can find one round of ammunition, they can build a gun in an hour and kill a defenseless person.
The stories about how evil guns are are much more interesting news than how good they are. School shootings will get a news channel way more attention than "Jonathan666666 goes hunting and brings home a turkey for Thanksgiving." Stories about responsible gun use do not make money.
If someone really really wants to kill someone, but they don't have a gun, they can stab/beat/run over/burn the person. Murder wasn't invented the same day the gun was.
America is filled with guns. It would be worth it if the educational system would teach kids to respect firearms. Instead, they are taught that they are terrible things.
I hate saying this, but what if the Jews had firearms in Germany in the 30's and 40's. Things would have been a bit different. This applies to any genocide throughout history.
There are already so many guns here, that if you took them away, the criminals would still have theirs, thus making it worse for the everyday citizens. This is just my opinion. I feel terrible that this happened. Trust me, not everyone that is pro gun is a psychopath.
+
you can't go by statistics. How many deaths are suicides? Not all deaths are murdered.
And I can't stress this enough. IF YOU EDUCATE PEOPLE TO BE RESPONSIBLE WITH GUNS, THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO ACTUALLY BE RESPONSIBLE!
+
I didn't want to get into this story, but here it goes.
A friend and I stop at a deli on the way to his house. We buy our shit and leave. On our way out two urban youth lift their shirts and show a handgun that each of them had tucked in their wasteband. This isn't a ****ing joke. I'm not making this shit up to prove
a point. The kids tell us to empty our pockets. while this is happening, a paddy wagon drives by and my friend screams out for assistance. kids get startled, we run to my car. police don't hear us. we reported it. nothing happened. even after that, my friend and I both believe that U.S. citizens should be permitted to have guns. Think of that situation like this:
Guns illegal, bad guys have guns, good guys don't
Guns legal, we have an equal chance.
That's another point. Firearms make everybody equal. They make a 300lb man and a 5 year old girl equal. No one would ever have an advantage over you if you were both armed. it keeps us all the same.
I am open for mature debate.
FORZA CATANIA
Last edited by jonathan666666 at Dec 14, 2012,
JohnnyGenzale
Bitter old sod
Join date: May 2008
292 IQ
#9
Quote by jonathan666666
Copy and pasted from the other thread
The U.K. is an Island. It is easier to regulate what's coming and going.
Many people protect themselves with firearms, the media just chooses not to discuss it.
I was taught to respect guns. I haven't killed anyone. when kids are taught by shitty parents that guns are for killing people that owe you money, or to use if your hoe doesn't listen to you, they're probably going to use them for evil.
Even if guns are banned, there's over one billion rounds of ammunition in the U.S.A. If a criminal can find one round of ammunition, they can build a gun in an hour and kill a defenseless person.
The stories about how evil guns are are much more interesting news than how good they are. School shootings will get a news channel way more attention than "Jonathan666666 goes hunting and brings home a turkey for Thanksgiving." Stories about responsible gun use do not make money.
If someone really really wants to kill someone, but they don't have a gun, they can stab/beat/run over/burn the person. Murder wasn't invented the same day the gun was.
America is filled with guns. It would be worth it if the educational system would teach kids to respect firearms. Instead, they are taught that they are terrible things.
I hate saying this, but what if the Jews had firearms in Germany in the 30's and 40's. Things would have been a bit different. This applies to any genocide throughout history.
There are already so many guns here, that if you took them away, the criminals would still have theirs, thus making it worse for the everyday citizens. This is just my opinion. I feel terrible that this happened. Trust me, not everyone that is pro gun is a psychopath.
+
you can't go by statistics. How many deaths are suicides? Not all deaths are murdered.
And I can't stress this enough. IF YOU EDUCATE PEOPLE TO BE RESPONSIBLE WITH GUNS, THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO ACTUALLY BE RESPONSIBLE!


People will still lose their shit from time to time. And with guns around it doesn't realy matter how well you've educated people. Drunk/high/extremely desperate/scared individuals are not going to act rationally or logically. And in such a situation a gun is rather tempting.

But the entire problem really starts with the general mental health of people and the idea of murdering your fellow human beings. And once that thought has grown on you little if nothing will really stop you. We can't really protect us from these kind of situations anyway.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at Dec 14, 2012,
Todd Hart
Do Sadists go to Hell?
Join date: Sep 2009
153 IQ
#10
Depends on the weapon in question. A rifle can have legitimate uses in hunting or sports shooting (although why you need a proper rifle for that and can't simply use a pellet gun (which takes a lot more skill to be accurate with) is beyond me). Pistols, however, don't really have any use beyond killing other humans (and sports shooting, but again you don't need a bullet pistol for that). Automatic weaponry is the same.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
ErikLensherr
ENDHATE
Join date: Jul 2011
1,686 IQ
#11
Much stricter gun control at the least. These NRA dickheads lobby to eliminate even cursory waiting periods. They have entirely too much power over policy.

I guess I'd be for outright banning assault weapons too. Because I can't think of any legitimate compelling reason a civilian needs an assault rifle.
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Dr. Jill Stein @DrJillStein
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Last edited by ErikLensherr at Dec 14, 2012,
bradulator
normcore
Join date: Jul 2007
2,476 IQ
#12
My initial gut reaction after this story is in favor of gun control after being on the fence and mostly indifferent but leaning more towards right to own.

I'm not going to say that i'm in favor of gun control though until this episode has passed because it's easy to say **** guns ban it who cares out of pure emotion after something like this.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
Last edited by bradulator at Dec 14, 2012,
genghisgandhi
Kristaps Porzingis
Join date: Mar 2009
4,337 IQ
#13
Quote by jonathan666666
I hate saying this, but what if the Jews had firearms in Germany in the 30's and 40's. Things would have been a bit different. This applies to any genocide throughout history.

Firearms have been confiscated from victims of genocide before. In Germany especially, the Jews were such a minority it wouldn't have made any difference.
WCPhils
UnBanned
Join date: Sep 2010
731 IQ
#17
Quote by bradulator
My initial gut reaction after this story is in favor of gun control after being on the fence, mostly indifferent, but leaning more towards right to own.

I'm not going to say that i'm in favor of gun control though until this episode has passed because it's easy to say **** guns ban it who cares out of pure emotion after something like this.

I understand that

It isn't just because of this story though. I've been thinking about it for a few months now ever since one of my classes had a big discussion on it at the end of my semester last year. I was pretty neutral there, but some of their arguments have swung to be more in favor of gun control.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
Last edited by WCPhils at Dec 14, 2012,
bradulator
normcore
Join date: Jul 2007
2,476 IQ
#18
Quote by Eastwinn
gun control is not the root of the problem by any means.

I honestly think that mental illness along with the insane amount of media coverage given to people who do things like this is a bigger problem than gun control. Especially the media coverage and people's obsession with big stories like this.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
bradulator
normcore
Join date: Jul 2007
2,476 IQ
#19
Quote by blake1221
My distrust for the government is too high to ever be in favor of ridding all guns.


I also agree with you.

Stricter regulation or restrictions or whatever is probably as far as I envision myself going.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
Carnivean
UG Board King
Join date: Jun 2006
1,747 IQ
#20
Make guns illegal? People would still get a hold of guns.
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JohnnyGenzale
Bitter old sod
Join date: May 2008
292 IQ
#21
Quote by bradulator
I honestly think that mental illness along with the insane amount of media coverage given to people who do things like this is a bigger problem than gun control. Especially the media coverage and people's obsession with big stories like this.


You mean that there's people who do these kind of things partly because they wanna be the focal point of one of these stories? Or am I understanding you correctly?
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Eastwinn
through being cool
Join date: Dec 2008
3,138 IQ
#22
Quote by bradulator
I honestly think that mental illness along with the insane amount of media coverage given to people who do things like this is a bigger problem than gun control. Especially the media coverage and people's obsession with big stories like this.


maybe, but that's only a teeny weeny fraction of gun violence here. we need to look at poverty and its relationship with drugs and gangs.
lolmnt
Earth of the Butt
Join date: Sep 2006
4,159 IQ
#23
Quote by bradulator
I honestly think that mental illness along with the insane amount of media coverage given to people who do things like this is a bigger problem than gun control. Especially the media coverage and people's obsession with big stories like this.
It's definitely mental health.

It's definitely culture of violence.

Sensationalism in the media is a problem (not that big of one, but one nonetheless).

It's just like, violence will be here guns or not. If this guy didn't have a gun, he would have used a knife or a bat or something.

I'm all for making guns tougher to obtain, but it's not going to fix it.
Quote by Eastwinn
maybe, but that's only a teeny weeny fraction of gun violence here. we need to look at poverty and its relationship with drugs and gangs.
Absolutely.
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Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
Geldin
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2008
1,677 IQ
#25
Quote by bradulator
I honestly think that mental illness along with the insane amount of media coverage given to people who do things like this is a bigger problem than gun control. Especially the media coverage and people's obsession with big stories like this.

If this guy hadn't had a gun, there's no way in hell he would have killed 26 people. It was a gun that enabled him to kill that many people. Considering that information about him is extremely limited, I won't say anything about the shooter's mental state. What I can say is that if he didn't own a gun, killing that many people would have been a damn sight more difficult.
blake1221
‭‭
Join date: Oct 2007
711 IQ
#26
Quote by element4433

Sensationalism in the media is a problem (not that big of one, but one nonetheless).


No, there was a link in the Aurora shooting thread about how publicizing the assailant increases the likelihood and speed of the next incident. Sensationalism is huge.
Johnny_Ibanez
ʎuuɥoſ
Join date: Mar 2009
1,251 IQ
#27
Quote by blake1221
My distrust for the government is too high to ever be in favor of ridding all guns.



So what, when the government comes knocking you're going to shoot them? You're going to shoot the government? The government that spends $600bn a year on the military? You're going to "take them down" with your gun?
Carnivean
UG Board King
Join date: Jun 2006
1,747 IQ
#28
Quote by Geldin
If this guy hadn't had a gun, there's no way in hell he would have killed 26 people. It was a gun that enabled him to kill that many people. Considering that information about him is extremely limited, I won't say anything about the shooter's mental state. What I can say is that if he didn't own a gun, killing that many people would have been a damn sight more difficult.


You can still get a gun if guns are illegal.
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WCPhils
UnBanned
Join date: Sep 2010
731 IQ
#29
Quote by element4433
It's definitely mental health.

It's definitely culture of violence.

Sensationalism in the media is a problem (not that big of one, but one nonetheless).

It's just like, violence will be here guns or not. If this guy didn't have a gun, he would have used a knife or a bat or something.

I'm all for making guns tougher to obtain, but it's not going to fix it.Absolutely.

It's much easier to go on a killing rampage with a gun than with a baseball bat.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
metaldud536
Multiple trick donkey
Join date: Jul 2006
954 IQ
#30
Quote by jonathan666666

I was taught to respect guns. I haven't killed anyone. when kids are taught by shitty parents that guns are for killing people that owe you money, or to use if your hoe doesn't listen to you, they're probably going to use them for evil.


Even if guns are banned, there's over one billion rounds of ammunition in the U.S.A.

Right and there would be no guns to fire those rounds

If a criminal can find one round of ammunition, they can build a gun in an hour and kill a defenseless person.

If a criminal was that well off in weapons manufacturing, he probably wouldn't be a criminal

If someone really really wants to kill someone, but they don't have a gun, they can stab/beat/run over/burn the person. Murder wasn't invented the same day the gun was.

Those are all easier to defend against and have a better chance of surviving all that shit.

America is filled with guns. It would be worth it if the educational system would teach kids to respect firearms. Instead, they are taught that they are terrible things.

They were made to kill and/or injure living things....what is so positive about that?

I hate saying this, but what if the Jews had firearms in Germany in the 30's and 40's. Things would have been a bit different. This applies to any genocide throughout history.

The Jews were citizens of a corrupt country at the time. I'm pretty sure non-Jew German citizens also didn't have weapons.

There are already so many guns here, that if you took them away, the criminals would still have theirs, thus making it worse for the everyday citizens. This is just my opinion. I feel terrible that this happened. Trust me, not everyone that is pro gun is a psychopath.

The same law taking away guns from people would apply to criminals. Criminals mostly get caught. Few get away. Start slowly and you will see how violence will be better taken care of in this country. Statistics do show how gun control reduces homicides.

If we started a program where you can turn in firearms for a good amount of cash along with banning firearms for good, I'm sure it would reduce the incentive for poor criminals to go out and rob people.
lolmnt
Earth of the Butt
Join date: Sep 2006
4,159 IQ
#31
Quote by blake1221
No, there was a link in the Aurora shooting thread about how publicizing the assailant increases the likelihood and speed of the next incident. Sensationalism is huge.
Can you find that link?
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
JohnnyGenzale
Bitter old sod
Join date: May 2008
292 IQ
#33
Quote by Carnivean
You can still get a gun if guns are illegal.


Yes, but it's a lot harder for the average Joe. The people who are responsible for these massacres are rarely people that are deep down into criminality and rough neighbourhoods.

These people would have a much harder time aquiring a gun if they wanted to carry out the murders.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Robfreitag
....
Join date: Feb 2011
64 IQ
#34
Where I live you can't own a gun, unless you're on a or keep it at a gun range or something, but mostly, you can't own one. consequently we have less deadly violence than countries that allow guns.
Society is built on rules and regulations which are supposed to be for the good of the community. I feel that even though I would like to have a gun, I'm very happy living in a country that has ruled against gun ownership for the good of society.
---
Carnivean
UG Board King
Join date: Jun 2006
1,747 IQ
#35
I think we can all establish that GUNS are not the sole reason these killings have been happening. There's something else to it.
Quote by Overlord
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due 07
haaan
Join date: Jun 2006
2,902 IQ
#36
Quote by element4433
Can you find that link?

ur all shit posted it so it wasn't just some random ass dumb person fwiw .
lolmnt
Earth of the Butt
Join date: Sep 2006
4,159 IQ
#37
Quote by WCPhils
It's much easier to go on a killing rampage with a gun than with a baseball bat.
Easier, yes.

Impossible, no.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
lolmnt
Earth of the Butt
Join date: Sep 2006
4,159 IQ
#38
Quote by due 07
ur all shit posted it so it wasn't just some random ass dumb person fwiw .
I wasn't doubting it. I wanted to read it out of interest.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
bradulator
normcore
Join date: Jul 2007
2,476 IQ
#39
Quote by JohnnyGenzale
You mean that there's people who do these kind of things partly because they wanna be the focal point of one of these stories? Or am I understanding you correctly?


I think so yes. and stories like these are gold for media. and people like to follow stories like this no matter how horrible they are. and people like to know all of the information and like to find facebook pages of the culprit and yada yada. Here's a quote from Roger Ebert speaking about what he sees as media's role in shit like this:

Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. “Wouldn’t you say,” she asked, “that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?” No, I said, I wouldn’t say that. “But what about ‘Basketball Diaries’?” she asked. “Doesn’t that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?” The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it’s unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. “Events like this,” I said, “if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn’t have messed with me. I’ll go out in a blaze of glory.”

In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of “explaining” them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
Geldin
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2008
1,677 IQ
#40
Quote by Carnivean
You can still get a gun if guns are illegal.

Of course you can. But it's more expensive and more difficult. I'm not going to conjecture about this guy specifically, but if a weapon is twice as difficult to obtain and twice as expensive, then logically, fewer people will have that weapon.

Look at the numbers. Countries with strict gun control laws have seen a dramatic reduction of firearm related fatalities. Would that have necessarily stopped this guy? There's no way of knowing. Will gun control laws stop potential shooters? The numbers say yes.