Page 4 of 69
#121
Quote by LightxGrenade
I understand that people don't want to lose the rights to own guns. My thoughts are that protecting yourself, your loved ones, and your property don't require excessive firepower. Owning a handgun, a shotgun or a hunting rifle is one thing - all of these are just fine for protecting yourself - but an automatic assault rifle? Unless you're fighting a whole mexican drug cartel, there's no need for the average American to have access to such deadly guns.

In the wake of what happened today, I'd be pressed to go even further and say that maybe BULLETS are what need to be controlled if people can't reconcile with the idea of banning guns.
Note: I have no idea if the shooter of today's tragedy used automatic weapons but I know for certain that the guy who killed those people in the Colorado movie theater during the Batman premier did use fully-automatic weapons.

My final thoughts: God, I don't pray to you often but please let Ted Nugent and Dave Mustaine keep their big retarded mouths shut. I really don't need to hear their opinion on how this massacre is 1. Obama's fault and 2. shouldn't affect gun legislation

The shooter did not use a fully automatic weapon. If I recall correctly, there has been 1 (one) murder with a registered full auto since we have been allowed to own them. Now "Owning a handgun, a shotgun or a hunting rifle is one thing - all of these are just fine for protecting yourself - but an automatic assault rifle?" that's too broad.
a shotgun can be a family friendly double barrel sporting gun, or an evil Saiga 12 with an evil barrel shroud.
FORZA CATANIA
#122
Quote by Johnny_Ibanez
What's the NRA getting out of this deal? I mean, I can see they like a hunt, but enough to spend millions of dollars lobbying government? I don't really get why they're so feverishly pro-gun. All this "pry it from my cold dead hands" routine is really strange to me.


Maybe they are passionate about being able to own/shoot guns and they don't want their rights taken away.

Strict gun control is wrong. Someone willing to kill humans will have no trouble illegally purchasing a gun.
#124
I heard a sound bite of Obama's press conference. He actually seemed pretty angry about having to go through a tragedy like this again and said it's time to take serious action prevent things like this from happening again.

This could be the final push to get Democrats to open up a debate about gun control and say **** you republicans. They certainly have gained some balls after winning the last election.
#125
Quote by Carnivean
The bomb was made out of fertilizer and fuel oil. Anyone can make bombs if they have the resources. Just because they are terrorists does not make them this special exclusive group that knows secret knowledge of bomb making. Oklahoma City Bombing also comes to mind. Two guys who were pissed at the government.

Just because bombings like these are usually labeled as terrorist attacks doesn't mean that bombs cannot become a common weapon used by the average joe.

Also, schools get bomb threats all the time.


hi, i am an amateur pyrochemist and i would like to mention that making bombs is actually time consuming and difficult as well as obviously more dangerous than firing a gun.
#126
Quote by JohnnyGenzale
Your argument is still terrible

Just because there's other methods of killing people you are somehow justifying guns being accessible to anyone out of principle?

Fertilizer, fuels, knifes etc all fill a primary purpose that is not to kill people (or well most knives.) Guns have one purpose. It's like a car. It is exactly what it is. Nothing more nothing less.


No, my argument is that guns are not the only cause of this, and that making them illegal, while ignoring other HUGE factors, will almost certainly fail to solve the problem.
Quote by Overlord
It's not hard to be nice, but it's nice to be hard
#127
Quote by WCPhils
The 2nd Amendment argument is so stupid to me. Like, that was 200 years ago when guns took one minute to fire each round.

Right? I hate America for things like this. The 2nd Amendment has been so bastardized that it has created this fanatical sense of "I need my guns". In this age, go to the butcher shop if you need meat. And if you want to hunt, you don't need an assault rifle or handgun for that. How many more people have to die due to gun violence (not due to psychopaths, guns in general) before someone does something?
Gear:
Paul Reed Smith SE Custom 24
Marshall MG30DFX
ISP Noise Decimator
Need a new amp. Any ideas? PM me


Quote by Kensai
Either you got the wrong thread or the gays in your state are very well hung.

#128
Quote by Eastwinn
hi, i am an amateur pyrochemist and i would like to mention that making bombs is actually time consuming and difficult as well as obviously more dangerous than firing a gun.


Thanks amateur pyrochemist. And yes, it is more dangerous than firing a gun, especially for the intended victims.
Quote by Overlord
It's not hard to be nice, but it's nice to be hard
#129
There are quite a few countries with stricter gun control laws than us and they don't have people bombing each other all the time.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#130
Quote by WCPhils
There are quite a few countries with stricter gun control laws than us and they don't have people bombing each other all the time.
That's ignoring cultural differences though.

Not saying bombings would happen on a massive scale if guns were banned. Just that we'd still kill each other.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#131
I wonder the percentage of those killed shot or killed by guns were victims of gang or domestic violence. I'm betting that if you actually deal with the gang problem by legalizing drugs and paying a living wage the numbers would fall. Guns are not the problem society is.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#132
Quote by Carnivean
Thanks amateur pyrochemist. And yes, it is more dangerous than firing a gun, especially for the intended victims.


Again, if homemade bombs were really a problem then we would see large numbers of herbicide bomb related murders in the UK, or other countries with strong firearm prohibitions.

Your argument is effectively 'if someone wanted to they could kill someone without a gun and thus guns are fine'. This is a stupid argument. Hell, I could use this argument to try to defend the public sale of nuclear weaponry.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#133
Quote by ErikLensherr
Ask David Koresh how that logic worked out for him.

If the government wants to kill you (side note - the government doesn't want to kill you) an entire stockpile of weapons isn't going to help you, let alone a pistol.

Not the point. If, God forbid, the U.S. government becomes terribly corrupt and tyrannical (like killing citizens, tyrannical) and there is a situation where the people needed to be defended. I'll have no problem dying if I know that I atleast tried to fight for and defend the American people. this is just my own opinion, and I pray to God the day never comes.
FORZA CATANIA
Last edited by jonathan666666 at Dec 14, 2012,
#134
Quote by Carnivean
No, my argument is that guns are not the only cause of this, and that making them illegal, while ignoring other HUGE factors, will almost certainly fail to solve the problem.


You don't know that. The thing is people aren't willing to do what they can to put a dent to the problem.

It's either find one solution to fix it all or do nothing. So we let it continue in the meantime until we find the final solution.
Quote by jonathan666666
Not the point. If, God forbid, the U.S. government becomes terribly corrupt and tyrannical (like killing citizens, tyrannical) and there is a situation where the people needed to be defended. I'll have no problem dying if I know that I atleast tried to fight for and defend the American people. this is just my own opinion, and I pray to God the day never comes.


I know you guys will hate me for this but...if God was real we wouldn't need guns.
Last edited by metaldud536 at Dec 14, 2012,
#135
Quote by WaterGod
I heard a sound bite of Obama's press conference. He actually seemed pretty angry about having to go through a tragedy like this again and said it's time to take serious action prevent things like this from happening again.

This could be the final push to get Democrats to open up a debate about gun control and say **** you republicans. They certainly have gained some balls after winning the last election.



Don't the Reds still have the majority in the House of Reps though? So they can still just keep blocking any moves the Blues try to make?
#136
Quote by BurningStarlV
Maybe they are passionate about being able to own/shoot guns and they don't want their rights taken away.

Strict gun control is wrong. Someone willing to kill humans will have no trouble illegally purchasing a gun.



Most gun owners have very small penises. The owning and firing of a firearm is the only way in which they can feel manly. It is an act of overcompensating for a perceived lack of 'manhood.'

That is a fact, it is science.
#137
Quote by Carnivean
No, my argument is that guns are not the only cause of this, and that making them illegal, while ignoring other HUGE factors, will almost certainly fail to solve the problem.

But the thing is, a gun's sole purpose is to END LIFE. That is it! Everything you said, specifically about the bombs, is something that has a purpose for something else. Now this isn't referring to you specifically, but a knife is an eating utensil, and a baseball bat is to play a game! Sure you can kill people with them, but you can kill someone with a piano if you try hard enough. Killing with a gun is such a detatched and cowardly way to kill. Take away the guns, and you make the gun problem a much smaller issue. Sorry if this turns out to be a double post.
Gear:
Paul Reed Smith SE Custom 24
Marshall MG30DFX
ISP Noise Decimator
Need a new amp. Any ideas? PM me


Quote by Kensai
Either you got the wrong thread or the gays in your state are very well hung.

#138
Quote by Carnivean
Thanks amateur pyrochemist. And yes, it is more dangerous than firing a gun, especially for the intended victims.



sure they are...which explains why only 8 people were killed in norway by the bomb and 69 by the GUN.

It also explains why the 4 out of 5 security(counting prisoner officer) personnel in northern ireland to die in the past 10 years were shot rather than blown up.

oh wait...it doesn't.
#139
Quote by jonathan666666
Not the point. If, God forbid, the U.S. government becomes terribly corrupt and tyrannical (like killing citizens, tyrannical) and there is a situation where the people needed to be defended. I'll have no problem dying if I know that I atleast tried to fight for , and defend the American people. this is just my own opinion, and I pray to God the day never comes.



You and all your friends would be eradicated in an instant in that hypothetical situation. Your puny weapons are nothing against stealth bombers and unmanned drones.
#140
I'm not saying people are just gonna start bombing each other all the time if guns are made illegal. My point is that there are ways to easily kill lots of people in a short amount of time besides using a gun. If there is determination and resources, there is a way.
Quote by Overlord
It's not hard to be nice, but it's nice to be hard
#141
Quote by burghUK
sure they are...which explains why only 8 people were killed in norway by the bomb and 69 by the GUN.

It also explains why the 4 out of 5 security(counting prisoner officer) personnel in northern ireland to die in the past 10 years were shot rather than blown up.

oh wait...it doesn't.


Oklahoma City Bombings? I think more than 150 people died.
Quote by Overlord
It's not hard to be nice, but it's nice to be hard
#142
Quote by Carnivean
I'm not saying people are just gonna start bombing each other all the time if guns are made illegal. My point is that there are ways to easily kill lots of people in a short amount of time besides using a gun. If there is determination and resources, there is a way.



Sure there are , but the fact remains that there is nothing quicker and easier than a gun. So why not remove that option?
#143
Quote by Todd Hart
Protecting them from what? Seriously, what possible situation is there where you whipping out a gun is going to make your family more safe?

Home invasion: well, they're probably armed as well, and almost certainly more willing to use it.

Mass murder in a public place: the other guy is clearly happy to kill, and you adding more bullets into the fray in a blind attempt to be a hero is just going to get more people killed.

Government conspiracy to murder you (I include this because apparently this is a big fear in America): yeah, I think the government has better weapons and training than you.

Animal attack: Mhmm, potentially.

Guerrilla terrorist force sent by the commies: they're better trained than you and more willing to kill.

Robot rebellion: they're made of metal, good luck fending them off with your 9mm.

Alien invasion: they're clearly more technologically advanced, your weapon isn't likely to help.

Second coming: it's mother****ing Jesus, what you gonna do?


Are you assuming that all Americans live in safe urban areas where there's a cop on a corner or witnesses are constantly peeking their heads out of windows? Or are you assuming that ghettos aren't as bad as they really are? If you're a man who lives in a rural area where it would take the police time to get to you and your closest neighbors is a mile away, and someone is invading your home, a gun is a good option.

Or better yet, a situation closer to the one I face everyday. You think if I call for cops in the middle of a Section 8 Housing development in a really terrible neighborhood that those cops are going to come rushing in? HAH! They're just as afraid of getting shot up as any person. Stay one night in the Marcy Projects or the bad part of Coney Island and then tell me you wouldn't be even slightly tempted to want something to protect yourself with if someone invaded your home.

Oh and by the way, your scenarios are complete exaggerations and even if they weren't, apparently your theory is that if someone's life is in danger they should just give up and let themselves get murdered.
You fail to realize that most robbers, even with a gun do not like the idea of getting shot themselves. You really think some punk with a gun is going to say "nah Im going to shoot it out because I really want that xbox and dvd player, it's totally worth getting my brains blown out"? Hell no, they're going to run away before they get shot too.
Oh and you severely underestimate how willing people are to protect the things they work their whole live for, whether it's their family or their property. It may not make sense right now but 30 years working for something will change your priorities really quick.
And as for your last statement. Um...WHY THE **** WOULD I BE TRYING TO SHOOT JESUS IN THE FIRST PLACE? I'm not Christian but I'm sure as hell not going to shoot the man if he rises from the dead lol.

Once again: I don't see the need for automatic weapons but I do understand the rationale in people's desire to own something like a handgun or a hunting rifle. I personally have no desire for a gun but if a person feels the need to own one for the purposes of protection who am I to deny them that right. As weird as it sounds, I think bullet control would go a long way and it would serve as a stepping stone towards the right direction without having the republicans get in an uproar about the 2nd amendment
Gibson LP Studio
Taylor 518E
Washburn WD15SCE acoustic electric
Carvin DC727 (ordered! The wait is driving me nuts!)
Last edited by LightxGrenade at Dec 14, 2012,
#144
Quote by Eastwinn
hi, i am an amateur pyrochemist and i would like to mention that making bombs is actually time consuming and difficult as well as obviously more dangerous than firing a gun.

I have an interest in IEDs and they are definitely more dangerous than firing a bomb depending on what kind you're making. Too many people accidentally detonate it too soon. Killing them. The worst that could probably happen to someone firing a gun was if it was a really old model and hasn't been cleaned since then or whatever.

EDIT: And if I'm following this thread correctly there is a difference between guerrilla warfare and terrorism.
#145
This is the first I've read on this, but so far all the arguments against gun control seem to be twisted logic.

The only reason I can come up with not to implement it is that which ever government does it will be voted out due to the sheer amount of stupidity in society.

Pardon me if I show any ignorance.
#146
Quote by TunerAddict
You and all your friends would be eradicated in an instant in that hypothetical situation. Your puny weapons are nothing against stealth bombers and unmanned drones.

I don't think you get the point. I'd rather die fighting for the American people, than die a defenseless coward.
FORZA CATANIA
#147
The way I see it:

Both Connecticut and New Jersey (where the guy was from) have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Gun Control is in full effect there, and has been for a few decades. There isn't much more that they can do short of just outlawing everything, and that just isn't going to happen in the country.

So we have 2 realistic options here:

1. Enact national Gun Control like we did back in 1994-2004 (that was shown to not work, remember Columbine?)

2. Talk about the REAL issue which is the crazy people committing these horrible acts. Why are they doing this? How can we stop it?

I honestly don't think this is a gun issue as much as it is a societal issue.
Case in point, earlier today so asshat stabbed 20 kids in a school in China. No guns there, but same result - people going ****ing crazy.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#148
Quote by Carnivean
I'm not saying people are just gonna start bombing each other all the time if guns are made illegal. My point is that there are ways to easily kill lots of people in a short amount of time besides using a gun. If there is determination and resources, there is a way.


If yet to see someone argue the contrary.

All the gun violence in the US wouldn't be replaced by bomb violence. That is the argument I see being made.
#149
Quote by LightxGrenade


Or better yet, a situation closer to the one I face everyday. You think if I call for cops in the middle of a Section 8 Housing development in a really terrible neighborhood that those cops are going to come rushing in? HAH! They're just as afraid of getting shot up as any person. Stay one night in the Marcy Projects or the bad part of Coney Island and then tell me you wouldn't be even slightly tempted to want something to protect yourself with if someone invaded your home.
.



The problem with those areas wouldn't exist if guns were illegal. The supply would dwindle and these criminals couldn't afford to buy one illegally and they won't want to waste their time in your house with it.


The issue is beyond mass murders and 15 people killed here and there. It's the overall figure of gun deaths and how many lives would be saved if guns weren't accessible.
Last edited by burghUK at Dec 14, 2012,
#150
Quote by jonathan666666
I don't think you get the point. I'd rather die fighting for the American people, than die a defenseless coward.


What meaningless garbage that is. Fighting for america? Defenseless coward?

Dying is dying. The idea that there are some kind of heroic death is just the kind of propaganda that sway uneducated trailer trash into taking part in military conflicts around the world for "freedom."
#151
Quote by stonyman65


I honestly don't think this is a gun issue as much as it is a societal issue.
Case in point, earlier today so asshat stabbed 20 kids in a school in China. No guns there, but same result - people going ****ing crazy.

And they all lived.
#152
Quote by TunerAddict
Most gun owners have very small penises. The owning and firing of a firearm is the only way in which they can feel manly. It is an act of overcompensating for a perceived lack of 'manhood.'

That is a fact, it is science.


This reminds me of that South Park episode where they announced that the average dong is 1.5 inches and everyone instantly stops being angry and chills out.
#153
Right, because it's really hard to murder small children without a gun.

You never hear about shootings like this in the Czech Republic, and guns are available to everyone over 18 without a criminal record there. Maybe, just maybe, America has another issue to take care of?
The more you say 'epic' the less it means.
Last edited by Dynamight at Dec 14, 2012,
#154
Quote by stonyman65


I honestly don't think this is a gun issue as much as it is a societal issue.
Case in point, earlier today so asshat stabbed 20 kids in a school in China. No guns there, but same result - people going ****ing crazy.

none of them died
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#155
Quote by Dynamight
Right, because it's really hard to murder small children without a gun.

You never hear about shootings like this in the Czech Republic, and guns are available to everyone over 18 without a criminal record there. Maybe, just maybe, America has another issue to take over?

Stuff like this happens in other countries a lot of the time. It's just American media

Quote by jonathan666666
I don't think you get the point. I'd rather die fighting for the American people, than die a defenseless coward.

Reminds me of the Emiliano Zapata quote:

"It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees".
Last edited by LostLegion at Dec 14, 2012,
#156
Quote by TunerAddict
Most gun owners have very small penises. The owning and firing of a firearm is the only way in which they can feel manly. It is an act of overcompensating for a perceived lack of 'manhood.'

That is a fact, it is science.



I thought this thread was for serious discussion.
Last edited by BurningStarlV at Dec 14, 2012,
#157
Yeah way to protect your families with all your legal guns. Everyone having access to legal firearms saved those children...

Oh wait having access to legal firearms allowed someone to shoot them all and nowone did a thing.
#158
Quote by metaldud536
And they all lived.


True, but that didn't change the fact that it happened. They could have just as easily been killed. Thankfully that didn't happen, but that doesn't mean it couldn't/wouldn't have happened.

Don't blame the object the person is using to commit the crime, blame the person using the object to commit the crime. That's the real problem here.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#160
Quote by Greenie_777
Yeah way to protect your families with all your legal guns. Everyone having access to legal firearms saved those children...

Oh wait having access to legal firearms allowed someone to shoot them all and nowone did a thing.


Because clearly he couldn't have acquired a gun illegally and done the exact same thing.