Poll: Where do you fall?
Poll Options
View poll results: Where do you fall?
I have a strong preference for 'real' instruments
47 31%
I have a slight preference for 'real' instruments
45 30%
I have no preference either way
53 35%
I have a slight preference for electronic instruments
4 3%
I have a strong preference for electronic instruments
1 1%
Voters: 150.
Page 2 of 3
#41
Quote by naedauuf
I don't know, if I put a solid week (like seven 24 hour days) into making a dubsteb song, I think I could probably make a decent one.



No, you wouldn't. I've been learning to mix/produce for almost 3 years now and I'm no where near a professional level by any means. You have to develop a damn good ear to be a good mixer and also learn the many techniques out there to get a certain sound. There's a ton of fine tuning that goes into producing electronic music, especially the more complex genres. I'd also love to see you trying to make synth sounds. I guess you could handle the stereotypical "supersaw" sound.
#42
I didn't say I'd make a stellar top of the charts song, I said I'd make a decent song. For dubstep that "supersaw" would be fine. Just like powerchords for your 3 piece decent song-making rock band would be fine.
Quote by MetalGS3SE
This is the best idea I have ever heard. Ever.

Naedauuf for president people.


#44
Quote by naedauuf
I didn't say I'd make a stellar top of the charts song, I said I'd make a decent song. For dubstep that "supersaw" would be fine. Just like powerchords for your 3 piece decent song-making rock band would be fine.


Anybody who can 'decently' play guitar could probably make a decent song, just by using a simple chord progression and a decent voice. Anybody who has some knowledge of digital equipment could make a decent dubstep song.

What's different is that someone who has no knowledge of either could make a better sounding song using digital equipment. I have no knowledge of that stuff, but just by playing around in a generic program, I was able to make something that sounded decent. Whereas if I gave my guitar to my roommate, who has no musical skill, he wouldn't know where to begin.
#47
Quote by naedauuf
I don't know, if I put a solid week (like seven 24 hour days) into making a dubsteb song, I think I could probably make a decent one. Now how long would it take to make even a decent song using drums, bass, and guitar?

Please go and try. Lots of people say stuff like this and feel high and mighty about playing what is being comically labelled 'real' instruments but never do it and find out.

To answer your question, how long does it take to learn C, F, G?

Anyhow, I have no real preference. Maybe slightly leaning to electronic instruments because of the vastly superior opportunities in terms of texture

EDIT:
I didn't say I'd make a stellar top of the charts song, I said I'd make a decent song. For dubstep that "supersaw" would be fine. Just like powerchords for your 3 piece decent song-making rock band would be fine.

Supersaws are for Trance. Now I really want to hear your avant-garde Dubstep.
Last edited by willT08 at Dec 18, 2012,
#48
If it's not a real instrument (or an orchestral backing on keyboard, I can understand that) I want no part of it.
Tomorrow will take us away
Far from home
No one will ever know our names
But the bards' songs will remain
Tomorrow will take it away
The fear of today
It will be gone
Due to our magic songs

ALL HAIL CELESTIA
#50
I figured there had to be a mistake in the title of that list to see Skrillex on it.
#51
Quote by Diamond Dave
I'm quite sure it would be, but I didn't make it past #100


Top 10 isn't much better. Only one I agree with is Johnny Ramone, and that's more influential than any real talent for the guitar.
#52
Quote by naedauuf

I'm not saying either one doesn't take any skill, but physical playing of an instrument takes way more skill than lining up beats on a computer. You have all the time you need to make it perfect. To perform, you hit play and it plays perfectly every time. Try playing perfectly every time with a 3 piece band. Impossible.

Completely missed this awful analogy as well.

I might as well go, "Well you know, every time I put on an Arctic Monkeys album they play the songs the same every time". Making individual songs isn't the performance aspect of Electronic music. In fact, most of us who make it don't even delve into the performance side of things.
#53
Quote by naedauuf
I didn't say I'd make a stellar top of the charts song, I said I'd make a decent song. For dubstep that "supersaw" would be fine.


Except supersaws aren't the synth sound attributed to dubstep. Also, no, that would not work at all. You'd need a wavetable synth and some decent knowledge on synthesis and processing get a good dubstep bass sound.
#54
No real preference, but I think certain emotions are hard to portray when playing an electronic instrument. Anger and passion betray themselves far easier and far more intensely in music that is acoustically generated. However, I don't think that music should be entirely about extreme depths of emotion, and electronic instrumentation can provide far more nuance.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Last edited by Todd Hart at Dec 18, 2012,
#55
Quote by Todd Hart
No real preference, but I think certain emotions are hard to portray when playing an electronic instrument. Anger and passion betray themselves far easier and far more intensely in music that is acoustically generated. However, I don't think that music should be entirely about extreme depths of emotion, and electronic instrumentation can provide far more nuance.

True dat.

But I've always found contemplative, mellow music to be better when it's electronic.
#56
Quote by willT08
True dat.

But I've always found contemplative, mellow music to be better when it's electronic.


Certainly. The fact that acoustic music requires a specific strength of impact to make a sound and can't hold a consistent tone for any real length of time means that electronics produce much more beautiful ambient and reflective music, I feel.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#57
Quote by willT08
To answer your question, how long does it take to learn C, F, G?

Also how to make a beat on drums with fills and all, and bass.. Well you got me there. Also on that guitar you'd need more than that, bridge, chorus, etc. All different. I said a decent song, not a simple one instrument acoustic guitar song. In my dubstep song I'd be able to use the program to put bass, leads, beats, etc into it. So if I do that, you can do those three as well.

And where would you learn those chords? We're talking about someone who has no schooling in it. I'm fairly computer literate so I could figure some program like reason for FLStudio out pretty easily. How are you going to just "figure out" chords? You'd need a teacher or book. And I don't get them to make my song, why would you? Even if you did, how would you even know what order to play them in? That's not really beginner stuff. Well it is, but not someone who JUST picked up a guitar.
Quote by MetalGS3SE
This is the best idea I have ever heard. Ever.

Naedauuf for president people.


Last edited by naedauuf at Dec 18, 2012,
#58
Quote by naedauuf
Also how to make a beat on drums with fills and all, and bass.. Well you got me there. Also on that guitar you'd need more than that, bridge, chorus, etc. All different. I said a decent song, not a simple one instrument acoustic guitar song. In my dubstep song I'd be able to use the program to put bass, leads, beats, etc into it. So if I do that, you can do those three as well.


You've never tried to make an electronic song have you?

And where would you learn those chords? We're talking about someone who has no schooling in it. I'm fairly computer literate so I could figure some program like reason for FLStudio out pretty easily. How are you going to just "figure out" chords? You'd need a teacher or book. And I don't get them to make my song, why would you?


If you don't assume some semblance of musical knowledge then you may as well just get two dogs and place different instruments in front of them.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#59
Quote by Todd Hart
If you don't assume some semblance of musical knowledge then you may as well just get two dogs and place different instruments in front of them.

But that's my argument. If you take two people, give one a program on a computer, and give the other some instruments and tell them to make a somewhat good sounding song, who has the easier time?

That's the only point I was trying to make.

And yes I messed around with electronic music a bit. I'm not the next electronic star, but it's easier than when I first picked up a guitar, that's for sure.
Quote by MetalGS3SE
This is the best idea I have ever heard. Ever.

Naedauuf for president people.


Last edited by naedauuf at Dec 18, 2012,
#60
Electronic music doesn't do anything for me unless it's ambient/chill stuff. Even then I strongly prefer hearing music with real instruments.
#61
Quote by naedauuf
Also how to make a beat on drums with fills and all, and bass.. Well you got me there. Also on that guitar you'd need more than that, bridge, chorus, etc. All different. I said a decent song, not a simple one instrument acoustic guitar song. In my dubstep song I'd be able to use the program to put bass, leads, beats, etc into it. So if I do that, you can do those three as well.
Yeah but you need to be able to do all that to write any type of music. It's not like writing fills and for multiple instruments is something only those working with 'real' instruments have to do.

And where would you learn those chords? We're talking about someone who has no schooling in it. I'm fairly computer literate so I could figure some program like reason for FLStudio out pretty easily. How are you going to just "figure out" chords? You'd need a teacher or book. And I don't get them to make my song, why would you? Even if you did, how would you even know what order to play them in? That's not really beginner stuff. Well it is, but not someone who JUST picked up a guitar.

Who said you can't have a teacher?

There's a million and one tutorials out there about how to do literally everything in Dubstep, and I mean everything. Need to compress your kick, watch a tutorial and learn how to do it. Need to sidechain your percussion, bass, make a Saw-based pad, a pluck lead, layer your snare? Watch a tutorial for all of them. First 50 songs are still gonna sound absolutely dreadful.

EDIT:
And yes I messed around with electronic music a bit. I'm not the next electronic star, but it's easier than when I first picked up a guitar, that's for sure.

Can we hear it?

Because I had quite the opposite experience. Guitar playing came very naturally to me, producing really did not.
Last edited by willT08 at Dec 18, 2012,
#62
Depends really. If you give someone a program with loops and samples built in they will have an easier time. If you give someone something that just makes sine waves and sawtooth it will be a lot harder to make something one can consider music.
#63
Quote by naedauuf
But that's my argument. If you take two people, give one a program on a computer, and give the other some instruments and tell them to make a somewhat good sounding song, who has the easier time?


Neither, because they've both got their own set of difficulties which are completely dependent upon the 'strengths' and 'weaknesses' individual.
Last edited by NothingRocks at Dec 18, 2012,
#64
Quote by naedauuf
But that's my argument. If you take two people, give one a program on a computer, and give the other some instruments and tell them to make a somewhat good sounding song, who has the easier time?

That's the only point I was trying to make.

And yes I messed around with electronic music a bit. I'm not the next electronic star, but it's easier than when I first picked up a guitar, that's for sure.


Two people with no musical knowledge? It'd be much easier to make a nice sounding song acoustically.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#66
Quote by primusfan
i have a strong preference for real instruments. because that means musicians are more than likely making money.

I just can't understand this opinion at all. Your definition of musician must be seriously skewed or incorrect if you wouldn't apply it to somebody such as Richard D. James.
That being said, I prefer the instrument that takes skill and sounds good. I just prefer a guitar over dubstep, not to say making music with a computer doesn't take still, but it takes WAY less than to actually learn an instrument. (I'm also aware this is a keyboard and midi controller, but you get what I mean).

Nearly any artistic practice is as difficult or easy as you're willing to make it. That being said, in my experience, reaching a passable standard of guitar playing will require far less investment of time than reaching a passable standard of production. In fact, you'll probably find with many simple guitar-based bands (Green Day for example) that a person would have to spend years reaching a skill-level where they could produce a track to that standard, but would be able to play every song from it on guitar within a year of playing.
Quote by naedauuf
For dubstep that "supersaw" would be fine. Just like powerchords for your 3 piece decent song-making rock band would be fine.

Your lack of understanding betrays you right there. You've probably never even heard of Low Frequency Oscillation so I'd slow down a little with these statements.
Spare a Cow
Eat a Vegan
#67
Quote by Ziphoblat

Nearly any artistic practice is as difficult or easy as you're willing to make it. That being said, in my experience, reaching a passable standard of guitar playing will require far less investment of time than reaching a passable standard of production. In fact, you'll probably find with many simple guitar-based bands (Green Day for example) that a person would have to spend years reaching a skill-level where they could produce a track to that standard, but would be able to play every song from it on guitar within a year of playing.

That's just objective fact. How many kids in the world can play Green Day songs? How many could have produced the album? How many could have written and produced the album?
#68
I generally prefer real instruments as it requires more activity than pressing buttons on a computer.

That said I do enjoy some electronic music, just not the shit that encompasses every pop song of the last 5 years. I enjoy some techno/trance/d&b, I hate dubstep, current pop music, etc.
I Like Green!
#69
Quote by matsif
I generally prefer real instruments as it requires more activity than pressing buttons on a computer.


I love it when people say this, it's so quaint. It's like when people say 'Your poem doesn't rhyme? Well it's not a poem then'.

Playing guitar is 'just pressing buttons', the buttons are simply made of string. Ooh and you also have to flick the string with your right hand too. Ooh and sometimes you have to hold your finger down and then slide it along the string. So pro. So difficult!
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#70
It's insane that whenever I have this debate, electronic music makers get so offended. Every one of you, jeez. This all started because I said I PERSONALLY prefer physical instruments because x. So I'm ending (atleast my part in it) this debate here. It's all opinion, now stop derailing the thread.
Quote by MetalGS3SE
This is the best idea I have ever heard. Ever.

Naedauuf for president people.


#71
Quote by naedauuf
It's insane that whenever I have this debate, electronic music makers get so offended. Every one of you, jeez. This all started because I said I PERSONALLY prefer physical instruments because x. So I'm ending (atleast my part in it) this debate here. It's all opinion, now stop derailing the thread.


I'm not in the slightest bit an electronic musician.

And if your reason for not liking something is one of ignorance then people will try to educate you.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#72
Give me SD 2.0, and a drummer to help me write everything out correctly.....over a drummer taking 4-5 hours of paid studio time to get every possible detail down perfectly, and then worrying that it might not've been mic'd up perfectly.

My current drummer hates the idea that he might not even technically be on our EP. But it's fiscally irresponsible when you're independent, not funded, and the drum software you want to use sounds amazing
#73
Quote by Todd Hart
I love it when people say this, it's so quaint. It's like when people say 'Your poem doesn't rhyme? Well it's not a poem then'.

Playing guitar is 'just pressing buttons', the buttons are simply made of string. Ooh and you also have to flick the string with your right hand too. Ooh and sometimes you have to hold your finger down and then slide it along the string. So pro. So difficult!


Talk about being quaint...

This is what I hate about the pit sometimes, people are so goddamn jaded. People actually get joy out of the technical side of guitar playing (or any 'real' instrument for that matter). Of course you probably get joy out of piecing together digital music and everything else that comes with it. But right here you're just simplifying guitar to make it match the lack of technicality of digital music. I understand it's not just 'pressing buttons'. But I mean, to dumb down guitar like that is ignorant.
#74
Quote by chev311e
I figured there had to be a mistake in the title of that list to see Skrillex on it.

they even tried to justify it

Quote by bdof
Give me SD 2.0, and a drummer to help me write everything out correctly.....over a drummer taking 4-5 hours of paid studio time to get every possible detail down perfectly, and then worrying that it might not've been mic'd up perfectly.

My current drummer hates the idea that he might not even technically be on our EP. But it's fiscally irresponsible when you're independent, not funded, and the drum software you want to use sounds amazing

If I were him I'd be saying fuck that for sure, hell I'd sell cymbals to buy the extra studio time if it came to it. You can get pretty good guitar VST's too ya know...
#75
Quote by chev311e
Talk about being quaint...

This is what I hate about the pit sometimes, people are so goddamn jaded. People actually get joy out of the technical side of guitar playing (or any 'real' instrument for that matter). Of course you probably get joy out of piecing together digital music and everything else that comes with it. But right here you're just simplifying guitar to make it match the lack of technicality of digital music. I understand it's not just 'pressing buttons'. But I mean, to dumb down guitar like that is ignorant.


I was responding to a retarded claim in kind. Guitar is certainly one of the easiest instruments. Get over it.

What is it with guitarists and really caring about difficulty? I don't think any other musical instrument carries such pretentious baggage: you don't hear violinists talking about how electronic music is 'just pushing buttons'.

And for the record, I play guitar (whenever I do play an instrument), and have never made a piece of electronic music in my life. I also don't really listen to electronic music.

It's odd that guitar is the most popular and one of the most accessible instruments and yet guitarists almost always think they're part of some unique and hallowed inner circle.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#77
Quote by Todd Hart
It's odd that guitar is the most popular and one of the most accessible instruments and yet guitarists almost always think they're part of some unique and hallowed inner circle.


It's the Call Of Duty of the music world. The rest just look at us and go "twats, don't know anything outside of their flavour of the month"
#78
Quote by Diamond Dave
You can get pretty good guitar VST's too ya know...


As far as clean guitars go, I totally agree. Throw in some reverb & delay, and one can treat oneself to some beautiful twinkly stuff.

But, if one wants distortion, one's probably better off using a saw or something, haha.


OT: I understand the emotional need to give the electric guitar this mythical status in the realm of musical instruments because of the many famous players it has and has had, but really, it's just a guitar, man. The action may not be completely the same, but it's not that much different from electronic music production; you have to concentrate on what you're doing, or you'll sound like shit.
#79
Quote by naedauuf
I don't know, if I put a solid week (like seven 24 hour days) into making a dubsteb song, I think I could probably make a decent one. Now how long would it take to make even a decent song using drums, bass, and guitar?

I'm not saying either one doesn't take any skill, but physical playing of an instrument takes way more skill than lining up beats on a computer. You have all the time you need to make it perfect. To perform, you hit play and it plays perfectly every time. Try playing perfectly every time with a 3 piece band. Impossible.


No shit, Sherlock. That's like saying "well if i bought a guitar and practiced it for a while, i'm sure i could play and write decent songs".

It takes skill and intelligence to learn, but after that it all becomes muscle memory. Try not playing guitar for a few months, see how much speed, accuracy and fluidity you lose. Electronic production is also something that takes skill and intelligence, if you think in a week you can master an art that producers have spent years working on, you are one arrogant mother****er.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#80
Quote by Diamond Dave
If I were him I'd be saying fuck that for sure, hell I'd sell cymbals to buy the extra studio time if it came to it. You can get pretty good guitar VST's too ya know...

That kinda reminds me of that scene from Pulp Fiction: "That's pride ****ing with you man....."

It does suck though, I feel like a total asshole for even suggesting it. But really, no one has to know (and no one will likely tell the difference) that it's not him on the EP.