Page 2 of 3
#41
The way I see it I have several favorite foods, but there isn't one restaurant that makes them all. In order to get all my favorite foods I have to go to several different vendors.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#42
Quote by sysD
"arrogence and self-awareness rarely go together...."


You need a mirror...

And language comprehension lessons.

Quote by tubetime86
The way I see it I have several favorite foods, but there isn't one restaurant that makes them all. In order to get all my favorite foods I have to go to several different vendors.


If you weren't so lazy, you could cook them all at home with better ingredients and a lower cost...

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Dec 19, 2012,
#43
i mainly use stand alone pedals because when i was younger the digital MFX setups were expensive, complex and in some cases didn't sound that good. there was basically more bang for the buck in pedals. (i still acquired a top-of-the-line rp20 at one point though, it was a bit disappointing)

today i still own quite a few pedals, but i do use much more digital effects and computer software effects. the DSP style effects have improved considerably (esp amp emulation), but the other big thing is i can get all these programs and effects for free. not much reason for me to ignore them.

maybe one day i'll get a standalone MFX hardware unit.

Quote by sysD
i find that having to bend down and adjust a setting every time i need to switch fx is a hassle

its easier to just use individual stompboxes to get the sound you need at any given moment... plus lots of fun ways rearrange your fx chain to get diff sounds... as well as combining fx... which doesn't really happen with multifx pedals, unless you're going to buy something really high end.


this... this is a bad argument, i don't feel the need to address all the particulars but this is an over-generalized and grossly misrepresented interpretation of the problem.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Dec 19, 2012,
#44
Quote by amit190
is there any high quality multi effect that will give the same quality of a train of different delays,distortions and so?
Sure.... Because saying separate pedals has bearing on quality. If you want to be able to iteratively keeps swapping components until you achieve your tone nirvana then separate pedals are probably the only way to do this. And it can be very expensive.

IMO Cathbard has been owning the narrative. Gigging pros use digital multifx because they offer the simplest method to quickly change your tone up, which is necessary for bands covering a wide range of material. And because contrary to some belief even the distortion isn't necessarily crap. Sure you've got guys that will say the touch and feel to the tone doesn't inspire them like a tube amp. But a pro knows the job is done when the audience is thrilled with what they hear, not how the player feels the sound.
#45
Never, ever heard a distortion on any multi-effects that I liked and distortion is the main effect I use other than reverb. And I really prefer spring reverb so that counts out multi-effects again. I also find that when running multi-effects in front of a good tube amp, the effects unit tends to make all of my guitars seem similar and doesn't let the true character of the guitar shine through. Maybe I'm just a cork sniffer, but after 30 years of gigging I know none of my friends use anything but stomp box pedals.

Gigging pros use digital multi-effects...really? And a pro cares more about the audience than the tone huh? A couple very questionable points of view you have there.
Last edited by Kato10 at Dec 19, 2012,
#46
Quote by Offworld92
Dude, how is that an opinion? What Cath said is a fact. MFX are set and forget. And because they're digital, you can't even accidentally mess them up like you can on a pedal. Explain your reasoning.


Convenience over tone? Spoken like a true pro.
#47
Quote by Kato10
Gigging pros use digital multi-effects...really? And a pro cares more about the audience than the tone huh? A couple very questionable points of view you have there.

what's questionable about either of these points?
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#48
Quote by Kato10
Gigging pros use digital multi-effects...really? And a pro cares more about the audience than the tone huh? A couple very questionable points of view you have there.
So you don't think that there are gigging pros that use multifx? And you find it questionable that a gigging pro would care that the audience likes the music? Weird

But maybe you are a gigging pro that doesn't ever worry if his band is going to be booked, and never had a bar owner that cared if the dance floor stayed packed all night. Stranger things have happened.
#49
Quote by Kato10
Never, ever heard a distortion on any multi-effects that I liked and distortion is the main effect I use other than reverb. And I really prefer spring reverb so that counts out multi-effects again. I also find that when running multi-effects in front of a good tube amp, the effects unit tends to make all of my guitars seem similar and doesn't let the true character of the guitar shine through. Maybe I'm just a cork sniffer, but after 30 years of gigging I know none of my friends use anything but stomp box pedals


you are a gigging pro, you don't like MFX: therefore all gigging pros don't like/use MFX.

i think that is a pretty questionable conclusion.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#50
Quote by Kato10

Gigging pros use digital multi-effects...really? And a pro cares more about the audience than the tone huh? A couple very questionable points of view you have there.


The fact of the matter is that very large touring bands have been using MIDI based rigs for what's getting close to 30 years. It's a great way to sort out all of the troubles of tap dancing. Personally, the only multi-effect I could have and be happy with it is the AxeII, though I'd still need a fuzz pedal because the fuzz models on it are lousy.

And if a musician gives more of a shit about his tone than he does about the audience, he's not a pro musician. The entire point of being a pro musician is to entertain people. If all you want to do is dick around with your tone, sit in your damn bedroom.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#51
I feel like their are no absolutes. If you know what you need, you can get away with using individual pedals. By that same token, you can also know what you need and get away with a Line 6 m or some such multi-fx. Mike Einziger of Incubus uses a bunch of pedals and the audience is thrilled. Teppei Teranishi of Thrice uses a Line 6 M13 and their audience is also thrilled. It's up to the individual to determine what best suits them. The glove doesn't fit all hands.
Fender Telecaster
DeArmond M series
Vox Night Train 15 head w/Weber loaded 1x12
Dunlop DVP3 Volume (X)
Klone circuit/Russian Big Muff 2in 1
Fulltone Fulldrive 2 MOSFET
TC Electronic Nova Delay
TC Electronic Nova Repeater
Line 6 M5
#52
Some people only need less than five different effects (for example chorus, delay, wah, compressor and phaser). I didn't count reverb or distortion because reverb is usually built in your amp and almost every amp has an OD channel (and if it doesn't, just crank it up and you'll get distortion). If you only need five or less effects, multi FX might not be the smartest thing to buy because you get so many useless effects. And a good multi FX will cost more than five individual pedals.

Also when you buy individual effects, you can buy what you need at the moment and when you feel that you need more effects, you can buy them.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#53
Quote by Cathbard
Using individual pedals doesn't mean you have to bend over and adjust things less often - quite the opposite. In fact so wrong that what people like myself have gone away from individual pedals precisely to avoid doing what you are claiming to be a MFX unit's shortcomings. It's pedals that suffer from that, not proper MFX units.

But have you thought that this "shortcoming" could be an advantage? Every room is different and will take your tone differently, and the ability to tweak your pedals on stage means that you can sound your best in any situation.
What if you decide on the night that you want a bit more dirt on that big solo, but instead of just cranking up the pedal, you have to go and get your manual out and start patching in a new channel during your sound check? Plus, no crazy oscillation from your delay pedals.
Fender American Special Telecaster w/ Bigsby
Fender MIM Jaguar
Digitech Whammy-->Korg Pitchblack Poly-->Dunlop Cry Baby-->Danelectro Pastrami Overdrive-->EHX Big Muff Pi-->Joyo Digital Delay
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III Red October Edition
#54
Quote by mark66saints
Plus, no crazy oscillation from your delay pedals.


Another thing that I should have mentioned. Some people need that and not many digital devices do that well, (if at all). There are just types of music that work better with at least some individual pedals like an analog delay. There's no way around the fact that some people need one or the other. There can't be an absolute.
Fender Telecaster
DeArmond M series
Vox Night Train 15 head w/Weber loaded 1x12
Dunlop DVP3 Volume (X)
Klone circuit/Russian Big Muff 2in 1
Fulltone Fulldrive 2 MOSFET
TC Electronic Nova Delay
TC Electronic Nova Repeater
Line 6 M5
#55
i confess that i'm kinda old school as pedals were what i was brought up on. having said that i also don't really use many fx so never felt the need to program a mfx unit. i also like the flexibility pedals offer. love the phaser but not the delay well you're stuck with a mfx unit all or nothing (and yes i know you can loop other fx in but that kinda defeats the purpose). my board only consists of an overdrive, wah, delay and phaser. never all on at once and usually not more than 2 at a time if that.

as far as touring "pros" not all of them use a bunch of fx and some hardly any at all. it's all about need, no right or wrong.
#56
Quote by Arby911

If you weren't so lazy, you could cook them all at home with better ingredients and a lower cost...




Quote by Kato10
Convenience over tone? Spoken like a true pro.


...What? I don't sacrifice tone for convenience. I'm not using some $200 MFX, I have a GT-10. My tone altering stompboxes are an SD-1 and a CS-3, both black label. Yes there are more boutique options and always will be. But I'm not using crap by a long shot.

My stomboxes are always on, and in addition my GT gives me all the MIDI features I need, such as being able to switch from the Ultra channel of my JSX with EQ, reverb and slight delay, with optional synth & harmonizer FX on the aux controls, to the crunch channel on my JSX with just reverb and EQ with delay on an aux control, to a built in clean model into the poweramp of my JSX with a different EQ, reverb, delay and chorus on one of the aux controls.

All of that, all switched between instantaneously with "1", "2" and "3" on my GT.

Also not sure how people are calling stomboxes "flexible"... Good MFX are pretty much infinitely flexible. Yes, they take time to dial in, but that's not really the argument.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Dec 19, 2012,
#57
most of the gigging guys i know use a MFX.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#58
Depends on the situation really. I've used my X3 Live at gigs, other times I have used my 6505+. Still thinking of just using the 4 cable method, but just can never seem to find the time to get it set up and play with the settings.
#59
I'm planning to go with 4CM and a multi effects unit for gigs. Going from from a clean to heavy distortion requires a lot of tap dancing for me otherwise.

Jackson RR3 Rhoads and DK2M Dinky
Peavey 6505+ w/ Avatar 212 cab
Ibanez TS9, ISP Decimator, MXR 10 Band EQ
-Digitech RP1000
#60
Maybe it's just me...but I've very rarely seen anyone using MFX, accept for guys playing bars when I visited Nashville and went 'touristing'. Most guys were just plugged straight into little tube combos though. I think it's just a Georgia/Florida thing. It's cool to be a touring act that has a pedalboard around these parts. I know some guys personally who love using MFX such as the PODHD500, but they also don't mind breaking out the pedals. One of my friends who is getting ready to tour pretty extensively, is a big fan of his Fulltone overdrive pedals.
Fender Telecaster
DeArmond M series
Vox Night Train 15 head w/Weber loaded 1x12
Dunlop DVP3 Volume (X)
Klone circuit/Russian Big Muff 2in 1
Fulltone Fulldrive 2 MOSFET
TC Electronic Nova Delay
TC Electronic Nova Repeater
Line 6 M5
Last edited by sg4ever at Dec 19, 2012,
#61
I like all the pretty colors.

Also, until I can afford something like an AxeFX, It's unlikely I'll buy any MFX (Unless I see something dirt cheap in a pawn shop to buy for shits and giggles).
#62
I used my podhd300 with studio headphones after 5pm. I play thru my amp and pedals during the day.


Cath im not familiar with rack set ups but im assuming it still has a footswitch so you can switch from clean to od and what have you?
Ibanez RG1550 Prestige
Schecter C1 Hellraiser
MIJ Ibanez Pro-line 1550
Takamine eg340c
Peavey 6505+ 112 combo
Ibanez Tubescreamer TS- 9
ISP Decimator
MXR M234 Analog Chorus
DeltaLab Digital Delay
Planet Waves Tuner Pedal
POD HD300
Last edited by whyze250f at Dec 19, 2012,
#63
Quote by gregs1020
most of the gigging guys i know use a MFX.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Fractal comes out with a floorboard unit with latching and MIDI outs, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and replace all of the pedals on my board except for my fuzz.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#64
Quote by mmolteratx
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Fractal comes out with a floorboard unit with latching and MIDI outs, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and replace all of the pedals on my board except for my fuzz.


+1 That would be amazing. I really dislike rack gear on an aesthetic level, and I hate the fact that it's like 2x as much gear for no good reason (rack + foot controller).
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#65
Quote by Offworld92
+1 That would be amazing. I really dislike rack gear on an aesthetic level, and I hate the fact that it's like 2x as much gear for no good reason (rack + foot controller).



well, that answers my previous question.
Ibanez RG1550 Prestige
Schecter C1 Hellraiser
MIJ Ibanez Pro-line 1550
Takamine eg340c
Peavey 6505+ 112 combo
Ibanez Tubescreamer TS- 9
ISP Decimator
MXR M234 Analog Chorus
DeltaLab Digital Delay
Planet Waves Tuner Pedal
POD HD300
#66
Quote by whyze250f
Cath im not familiar with rack set ups but im assuming it still has a footswitch so you can switch from clean to od and what have you?

Two possibilities;
1. You use a MIDI controller that does nothing but MIDI. Like this
2. One of the rack units has it's own footcontroller and effectively becomes the MIDI controller for the rest of the rack. Like this

I use method 2. My GP-8 has it's own footcontroller which in turn is linked via MIDI to my Quadraverb. I run the GP-8 out front and the Quaddy in the loop.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#67
For me personally, I like the feel of a chain of pedals better than an MFX. I also only use wah, delay, and a distortion pedal. ( i want a whammy but haven't gotten the cash). I can see how a multi-FX unit would be useful if you wanted a lot of effects, but I don't personally need em. (Also, analog delay lets you get crazy feedback and that's cool as hell)

Must Not Sleep.


Must Warn Others.

Gear:
Gibson Special Faded SG
Orange Tiny Terror (Combo)
MXR Carbon Copy Delay
Dunlop Crybaby Wah

3DS friend code: 3995-7035-3562
#68
Quote by Offworld92
+1 That would be amazing. I really dislike rack gear on an aesthetic level, and I hate the fact that it's like 2x as much gear for no good reason (rack + foot controller).

What's the difference between using a separate MIDI controller to one that would come with the unit? It's not twice as many things, it's the same amount of things. They just have different words written on them.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#69
I have to change the EQ on my amp as the song changes, and I have to bend down and change the delay, Reverb or chorus quickly. I have the settings written down on the set list and it takes me like 5 seconds to do it.

I don't know what the big deal is, but if anything can make it easier for you, that's fine by me.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


#70
Quote by CodeMonk
I like all the pretty colors.

Also, until I can afford something like an AxeFX, It's unlikely I'll buy any MFX (Unless I see something dirt cheap in a pawn shop to buy for shits and giggles).


+1

the new axefx is DIRTY.

i think deftones used it exclusively one their new album (axe2, that is)
sigless
#71
Quote by Cathbard
What's the difference between using a separate MIDI controller to one that would come with the unit? It's not twice as many things, it's the same amount of things. They just have different words written on them.


The footcontroller just controls the processing inside the rack unit. On a floor unit, the processing is built into the footcontroller. It is twice as many things. I don't need to put a rack to put my GT-10 into - it's already there, on the ground.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#72
Oh, I thought you were talking about a foot controller for an AxeFX. That's the way it read.
Racks are good man. Go rack and you'll never go back.
I particularly like full rack tuners too. Nice big display, easy to see from just about anywhere on stage. Good shit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#73
Quote by Offworld92
The footcontroller just controls the processing inside the rack unit. On a floor unit, the processing is built into the footcontroller. It is twice as many things. I don't need to put a rack to put my GT-10 into - it's already there, on the ground.

Yes, but many times you have your amp and FX processor in the same rack so it's really not twice as much gear.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#75
Quote by mark66saints
But have you thought that this "shortcoming" could be an advantage? Every room is different and will take your tone differently, and the ability to tweak your pedals on stage means that you can sound your best in any situation.
What if you decide on the night that you want a bit more dirt on that big solo, but instead of just cranking up the pedal, you have to go and get your manual out and start patching in a new channel during your sound check? Plus, no obnoxious noise that absolutley no one in the audience thinks is cool


Fix'd.

Plus, it's pretty much the same as with a normal pedal, you just have to save the preset afterwards..
LesPaul
Pedals
OrangeRocker30
My band
PBT Native: Resident Graphics Monkey

#77
Quote by AxSilentxLine
The only multi effect i'd ever use is a Line 6 M9, but even then I will only ever really use the delay and maybe some echo/reverb or chorus.

Quadraverb, man. Cheap as chips and does all those things extremely well. They like to be run in the loop. They will work at guitar levels but you have to crank up the input level too far which introduces some noise, they prefer line level.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#78
Quote by Cathbard
Oh, I thought you were talking about a foot controller for an AxeFX. That's the way it read.
Racks are good man. Go rack and you'll never go back.
I particularly like full rack tuners too. Nice big display, easy to see from just about anywhere on stage. Good shit.


It still applies to the Axe though.

I dunno. It's just way too much stuff. I need controls on the ground regardless - it just doesn't make any sense to have it on the ground and in a rack at the same time.

Quote by MaggaraMarine
Yes, but many times you have your amp and FX processor in the same rack so it's really not twice as much gear.


Yes it is. It may be in one physical unit, but that unit is 2x as big now. And a lot heavier.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#79
The AxeFX ROCKS.

Seriously.
But it's kind of complicated to use, and expensive. So people don't use it, but it's the effects unit guitarists deserve, but not the one it needs right now. So we ignore it, because it can take it. Because it's not our effects unit. It's a tone machine. A dark amp.
#80
Quote by darkwolf291
The AxeFX ROCKS.

Seriously.
But it's kind of complicated to use, and expensive. So people don't use it, but it's the effects unit guitarists deserve, but not the one it needs right now. So we ignore it, because it can take it. Because it's not our effects unit. It's a tone machine. A dark amp.


Lol my friend is a huge Batman fan and hes always looking for way to make that quote work in multiple conversations.

Back on topic, i have standard pedal board and have a POD HD500. I gotta say the more ive had the POD the more i prefer to use since i dont really use many fx as is. The only pedals i cant replace are my micro POG and my fuzz, everything else i hardly use so the POD is more than enough.